Eh.. I know the people are used to dealing with major players releasing MMOs.  This is, after all, a very small independant company who seems to be attempting to do ALL the work surrounding the game.

I don't think they're deliberately out to scam people.. They just don't have the resources of such companies like Blizzard, Sony and Turbine.

In turn though, that really makes me not interested. I've been burned by these small time companies trying to penetrate the market.

Originally posted by SuperNick

Eh.. I know the people are used to dealing with major players releasing MMOs.  This is, after all, a very small independant company who seems to be attempting to do ALL the work surrounding the game.

I don't think they're deliberately out to scam people.. They just don't have the resources of such companies like Blizzard, Sony and Turbine.

In turn though, that really makes me not interested. I've been burned by these small time companies trying to penetrate the market.

And how does that explain the NDA?    Allowing your players to talk about the game, and allowing journalists to write about your game does not cost a dime.

I can understand why Tasos doesn't pay for advertising, but there are plenty of sites that would write reviews for the game, including this one.    MMORPG.COM was not allowed to test the game or write a review, even when they asked directly.

Drop the NDA, let some journalist play and review the game.  It would cost Tasos NOTHING and would make everything much better for him ( if the game was actually real and not just an empty map)

Originally posted by SuperNick

 I've been burned by these small time companies trying to penetrate the market.

---------------------

LOTRO is a great game now and it's currently #1 on my list.

www.mmorpg.com/discussion2.cfm/post/2593139#2593139

And many of us have been burned by big companies; EQ 2, AoC, PotBS, LotRO. . .burned is relative though.  The entertainment I get for my $50 box is inevitably more cost-effective than paying $10 for a single movie in a theatre most of the time.  Though I wont play any other existing PvE and poorly implemented PvP titles...even playing through the first month had its level of enjoyment before their inherent mundane content kicked-in.

Originally posted by Alandora 

And how does that explain the NDA?    Allowing your players to talk about the game, and allowing journalists to write about your game does not cost a dime.

If you were making a mmorpg would you let people openly talk about it before it was running perfectly on the actual game server?  Personally I would absolutely not allow this especially if I was competing against companies with multi million dollar marketing budgets.  In an ideal world I would not even let anyone play it but unfortunately Aventurine do no have that luxery as it needs to be tested.  I would want my game to be as good as it was going to get before being spoken about openly, when that happend release would follow shortly afterwards.  If you have loads of cash to spend on marketing then that wouldn't be quite so important as you could sway peoples opinions to your favour by throwing money at it.

Originally posted by Cik_Asalin  

And many of us have been burned by big companies; EQ 2, AoC, PotBS, LotRO. . .burned is relative though. The entertainment I get for my $50 box is inevitably more cost-effective than paying $10 for a single movie in a theatre most of the time. Though I wont play any other existing PvE and poorly implemented PvP titles...even playing through the first month had its level of enjoyment before their inherent mundane content kicked-in.

 

 

 

 Huh? EQ2 is a great game developed by SOE, albeit not for me. AoC is hardly made by a big successful company, Funcom have about 4 games under their belt. Pirates of the Burning Sea is made completely by an independant developer (please don't confuse Sony publishing that title, with developing it) and LOTRO is possibly the #2 MMO on the market for subscribers currently, and one of the main contenders for WoW.

If you can't find enjoyment from current titles anymore, I think your MMO days are coming to an end for now, since you seem to be one of those people expecting a revolution in the market that will never come.

PS: Blod already answered my question to why it can often be a bad idea to openly let the media make their often skewed pre-judgements on your game. Especially when your company has so much riding on one title, as Aventurine seem to here.

Originally posted by stayontarget

Whoever gets in should do a live stream, that way we would not need to be in ob in order to see how the game plays out.

 They most likely would promptly be removed before anything would really be shown even if they could stream the video while playing.

Originally posted by LordRelic

Ok so first they say they will not have a preorder... You get to try it before you buy.. Yay sounds great ( to those of you who believe  compulsive liars). 

Now they delay release 1 week before the day, and then announce that preorders are now the major root to there so called try before you buy? Now does that sound like there telling the truth to you?

If you still think this game is your  god of games and this company is still the best and can never tell a lie then congrats to you for holding your own, but being nieve  is never a good thing.

 Like most people, you are assuming more than your speaking fact. This is ok however... as you are naieve and don't know what your talking about. Almost no one does, so it's alright...

Forums down for 2 days now? Not a good sign at all!!

Originally posted by oronisi

Originally posted by LordRelic

Ok so first they say they will not have a preorder... You get to try it before you buy.. Yay sounds great ( to those of you who believe  compulsive liars). 

Now they delay release 1 week before the day, and then announce that preorders are now the major root to there so called try before you buy? Now does that sound like there telling the truth to you?

If you still think this game is your  god of games and this company is still the best and can never tell a lie then congrats to you for holding your own, but being nieve  is never a good thing.

 

They didn't just say you won't be able to preorder DF...they specifically said all preorders were moneygrubbing attempts to sucker people out of their cash before ever trying the game.

I couldn't make that shit up if I tried, it's from a DF employee posted on their official boards.

 More than likely this was in reference to pre-orders that do NOT have trials before them... as the say "preorders were money grubbing attempts to sucker people out of their cash /BEFORE/ ever trying the game."
 

guys do you relealize that you can pre order the game , get into the open beta and then cancel your pre order if you do nto like it. i worked at a gamestop and thats hwo we got alot of pre-orders. its zero risk, you toss up 5-10 dollars but if you play it and know you wont buy it you can cancel and get your money back , there for you tested it for free

Originally posted by Stellarprime

Forums down for 2 days now? Not a good sign at all!!

 The forums are being moved. I beleive they may be making new ones altogether. That is my current information.

Originally posted by kiersteadmo

guys do you relealize that you can pre order the game , get into the open beta and then cancel your pre order if you do nto like it. i worked at a gamestop and thats hwo we got alot of pre-orders. its zero risk, you toss up 5-10 dollars but if you play it and know you wont buy it you can cancel and get your money back , there for you tested it for free

 Internet Preorders dont' work like gamestop. I worked for a company Gamestop bought out because the customers who tried t oavoid Gamestop would have no other choice (and that was literally what was said in the meeting, using different words). I preOrdered Demi God... i believe it was $45 for that beta. THAT is a pre Order beta that you don't get to try before you buy situation by the way. Any how, i'm nto saying you can't get your money back perhaps, but i am saying it's more than the $5 down pre orders that game stop has. However i am not surprised you don't know any better... as most game stop employees i've met truly don't know much beyond what they are told, no offense.

Originally posted by kiersteadmo

guys do you relealize that you can pre order the game , get into the open beta and then cancel your pre order if you do nto like it. i worked at a gamestop and thats hwo we got alot of pre-orders. its zero risk, you toss up 5-10 dollars but if you play it and know you wont buy it you can cancel and get your money back , there for you tested it for free

That is assuming preorder keys arrive in time, and cancelations work smoothly. That's a lot to assume these days, and even more with Aventurine.

Originally posted by mutantmagnet

So we have a situation where not everyone will be able to try out the game before preordering.

We also have a situation where Aventurine rep mentions they didn't expect demand to be this high despite the growth of their forum registry going from ~50k to ~300k from August to December which was a good enough tip off, so either they are lying (if you believe they are scammer), dumb or naive (regardless of your belief).

One thing that is being overlooked though is that a number of you also believe Darkfall doesn't appeal to a lot of people and would never get above 100k subs at best.

This is where I think those who see Darkfall as being a scam are unfair in their criticism.

You think by not having the servers available to make this beta phase open to everyone interested they are trying to sucker many into preordering. Yet they even said they probably can't get enough servers to let everyone play on Feb 25th, so they'll turn away people if the demand is too high and only allow the preorders to play.

Should a company buy servers to accommodate every gawker who passes through when even you don't believe the game can retain them as subscribers?

Doing that is the same as burning money. Even Warhammer, as well made as it was from tier 1-2 couldn't retain the initial rush of customers as subs despite few had reached the tier 3 slosh.

Everyone else who thinks this is a scam, but believes a game of this type could sustain more than 200k subs in today's market all I can say is just hold Aventurine to their word.

If you weren't able to try the game yourself by the time the game launches then don't buy the game until they offer an ongoing free trial.

But keep in mind if the other people are correct and Darkfall's gameplay can't sustain subscriptions then you'll just have to wait.
Obviously if Aventurine and their publisher launches the game; but only buys a number of servers that can accommodate everyone willing to buy the game, because these gamers trust the word of those who do try the game, they most likely will not set aside resources to allow people to try out the game when they are in a financial whole and their publisher is going to take 35% of the revenue.

To anyone else who is on the fence about what Aventurine is doing I suggest to do the same and hold them to their word. Don't buy the game without trying, unless you trust the people who do get to try it from January 22 till launch.

If you are unsure to trust the people who get to try the game then consider these as warning flags. Aventurine has an NDA in force after February 15th (when preordering begins) and Aventurine's idea of thousands of players is really just a thousand testers.

To those thinking of preordering even if you don't get to see the game beforehand, (like myself) I'll most likely see you on the 25th ;)

Peace.

Nice post.  Agree with everything.  See you at launch. 

Originally posted by Lambon

Originally posted by tombear81

• This "game" has had so many promises about features and already broken ones about release and chances to try before buying..
• A coffee morning which seemed a desperate plea for cash mostly.

• The fact one week from launch the developers realise they dont have the infastructure in place for demand. (Like an MMO launch never get initial surges of people.. well duh .. yes they do !)
• One week before a supposed launch no one was sure where they could download the client or even begin to download in prepartion.  I assume the "game" is 15 Gigabytes of there abouts.
• Irritating good old US of A peoples by not even knowing when the game will launch there.
• Marketing footage shot from the back of a room using a s85T camera like FRAPS has never been invented.
• A STUPIDLY large list of features.
• CRAP animations .. oh yes they are !

• The fact the Mr Tasos won't allow his game to be placed in any critical reviewing or previewing arena. Oh yeah that bodes well... erm.. NOT !

You'd be a real sucker to pre-order this game because of the above. At best this is pure incompetance at worst this is a scam that will probably work given  the desperation of many MMO fans particularly those desperate for a sandbox game.

*If* you get burned they'll be ZERO sympathy  from most people. In fact I'd keep pre ordering very, very quiet least its time to start a new account on MMORPG. OF course on the 20 million to one (metaphorical) odds this game is alright ... I wish you luck my pretty pre order lemmings, I for one salute you.

This is simply the most beautiful post I have read today. It's almost ridiculous how these retarded zealous fans just take everything Tasos SAYS and believe it must be true...Do you people even think for yourselves?

This thing sounds like a god damn cult. That's right, the beginning of a religion.

I hope you anti-darkfall people realize just exactly what kind of people you're trying to convince here. Zealous religious retards.

That might be true if thats all they were doing, but of course most of the "fanboys" don't only listen to tasos.  They listen to the leaks from official beta testers that about 80% of the leaks make the game sound very good.  And no, the beta testers are not only friends and family anymore since the 22nd wave it sounds like they have at least a thousand or thousands of "real" testers.

no offense taken for a reg version fo the game is 5 $ pre order, for the higher ones like the collectors eddition its 10$ the only gave ever that had a 15$ pre order was halo 3 and that was for the legendary  item, you would be amazed at how half and half it is, i am a gamer and when i worked there i could answer almost any question, but with others if you asked when does darkfall come out , they were like whats darkfall, so i would fill him in on it and leave. yes if u order online your refunds are about nil, vice going to the store to cancel its 100% for the pre- orders,

Originally posted by kiersteadmo

no offense taken for a reg version fo the game is 5 $ pre order, for the higher ones like the collectors eddition its 10$ the only gave ever that had a 15$ pre order was halo 3 and that was for the legendary  item, you would be amazed at how half and half it is, i am a gamer and when i worked there i could answer almost any question, but with others if you asked when does darkfall come out , they were like whats darkfall, so i would fill him in on it and leave. yes if u order online your refunds are about nil, vice going to the store to cancel its 100% for the pre- orders,

 I'm glad you knew something outside of what you are told. It saddens me to see gaming retail turn in to Mc Donald's style knowledge of the industry.

Originally posted by Disastorm

Originally posted by Lambon

Originally posted by tombear81

• This "game" has had so many promises about features and already broken ones about release and chances to try before buying..
• A coffee morning which seemed a desperate plea for cash mostly.

• The fact one week from launch the developers realise they dont have the infastructure in place for demand. (Like an MMO launch never get initial surges of people.. well duh .. yes they do !)
• One week before a supposed launch no one was sure where they could download the client or even begin to download in prepartion.  I assume the "game" is 15 Gigabytes of there abouts.
• Irritating good old US of A peoples by not even knowing when the game will launch there.
• Marketing footage shot from the back of a room using a s85T camera like FRAPS has never been invented.
• A STUPIDLY large list of features.
• CRAP animations .. oh yes they are !

• The fact the Mr Tasos won't allow his game to be placed in any critical reviewing or previewing arena. Oh yeah that bodes well... erm.. NOT !

You'd be a real sucker to pre-order this game because of the above. At best this is pure incompetance at worst this is a scam that will probably work given  the desperation of many MMO fans particularly those desperate for a sandbox game.

*If* you get burned they'll be ZERO sympathy  from most people. In fact I'd keep pre ordering very, very quiet least its time to start a new account on MMORPG. OF course on the 20 million to one (metaphorical) odds this game is alright ... I wish you luck my pretty pre order lemmings, I for one salute you.

This is simply the most beautiful post I have read today. It's almost ridiculous how these retarded zealous fans just take everything Tasos SAYS and believe it must be true...Do you people even think for yourselves?

This thing sounds like a god damn cult. That's right, the beginning of a religion.

I hope you anti-darkfall people realize just exactly what kind of people you're trying to convince here. Zealous religious retards.

 

That might be true if thats all they were doing, but of course most of the "fanboys" don't only listen to tasos.  They listen to the leaks from official beta testers that about 80% of the leaks make the game sound very good.  And no, the beta testers are not only friends and family anymore since the 22nd wave it sounds like they have at least a thousand or thousands of "real" testers.

this, of course mmorpg.com'ers ignore the leaks, because they seem to be positive (acutally, nvm, the "negative leak" I think was widely posted on and believed by all the "skeptics" here, who don't believe leaks, but make exceptions for things that prove their point)

well the reason is they hire anyone, you dont have to be gameing smart at all

Too true.  Any links to the negative leak?

Originally posted by SSRat

Too true.  Any links to the negative leak?

pm'ed

Originally posted by Isane

Originally posted by admriker4

I dont need beta access to see if the game isnt a scam.

But what I do require is a reputable reviewer see the game. Tasos has hidden this game from mmorpg.com and others and then asks for preorders.

Its simple really, show us the game actually exists and works and most of the scam claims will go away. If Tasos has nothing to hide he'll let someone besides his sister review the game

 

MMORPG.com is an irrelevance and the best think any developer can do is not pander to this cesspit. It has become more about ranting kiddies. Avoiding this hole is the best option with respect to longevity and success.

Yowsa I(n)sane, you've become such a bitter hater and troll on these forums.  What you fail to realize is that it isn't MMORPG.com that is irrelevant, but you and your posts that no longer seem to have meaning anymore.

Darkfall isn't a scam, just another MMORPG to release with the air of failure swirling around it.

PM it to me as well please

Same here. I'm always up for a good laugh.

SO I guess it takes the DF forums to go down for this thread to get enough traction to have multiple pages.

Too many bored people.

Try some indie games like Cave Story or Darwinia. I have yet tried the second game but the first is fun for a platforming RPG.

Darkfall will be available to try out on the 25th of February and you could heckle the game all you want if it isn't for you. (That is if you can get in without preordering :p )