... how all the chest thumping about Arena and Wintergrasp being superior has suddenly stopped? Seems the proof is out there that doing good PvP/RvR is not as easy to code as some claim it to have been.

I think any chest thumping towards WAR has stopped, as there's simply no need. Clearly it's not anywhere near a threat to WoW as it might have seemed before release.

Well I resubbed to WAR to try it out again and all I can say is what a crap game, If I wasn't burned out on wow I go back in no time.

Edit:And the reason there's no chest thumping is because no one cares about warhammer any more.

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Originally posted by Pheace
I think any chest thumping towards WAR has stopped, as there's simply no need. Clearly it's not anywhere near a threat to WoW as it might have seemed before release.
 
 

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I would tend to agree with this.

Even after release, the typical Wow fan cared less about Warhammer than a tribesman in Africa. Some thumped sure, but only in response to WAAAGGHH thumping. Most didn't even know what a "Warhammer" was.

Once people tried WAR and official stats were posted, feedback read, WAR bragging decreased and WAR defensing increased, Wow people went "yawn". They pretty much are happy with WOTLK so they don't care about WAR or anything else really.

Most never did.

Well, you can't really expect one update to fix RvR and turn it from "meh" to fun, these things takes time.

But the game can still be turned around and Mythic is kinda in a tight spot, EA is cutting down and if WAR doesn't turn around they will not be able to do another big game like it ever.

So the final word isn't in yet but it will take a lot of work still.

Originally posted by trevornor

... how all the chest thumping about Arena and Wintergrasp being superior has suddenly stopped? Seems the proof is out there that doing good PvP/RvR is not as easy to code as some claim it to have been.

Wintergrasp and Arena's have had there own issues since release of WotLK. WOW forums have had running complaints of different problems since launch about Wintergrasp, lag, not receiving tokens, overpowered tenacity buff, walls rebuilding in middle of fights, not being able to click on the relic and more.

A couple of days ago blizzard disabled both of them in game on all servers. Wintergrasp was crashing servers almost every half hour and the new point system in Arena's is borked.

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Originally posted by peaquop

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Originally posted by trevornor

... how all the chest thumping about Arena and Wintergrasp being superior has suddenly stopped? Seems the proof is out there that doing good PvP/RvR is not as easy to code as some claim it to have been.

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Wintergrasp and Arena's have had there own issues since release of WotLK. WOW forums have had running complaints of different problems since launch about Wintergrasp, lag, not receiving tokens, overpowered tenacity buff, walls rebuilding in middle of fights, not being able to click on the relic and more.
A couple of days ago blizzard disabled both of them in game on all servers. Wintergrasp was crashing servers almost every half hour and the new point system in Arena's is borked.

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The key thing is, people aren't leaving in droves like some other game, lol. They know Blizzard will work the problems out (as usual) and lately compensate them for lost time. It's just a speedbump for Wow and people know it.

Some other game I know is at a 30 ft pothole and people see it, and are jumping out of the bus before it hits it.

Originally posted by Loke666

Well, you can't really expect one update to fix RvR and turn it from "meh" to fun, these things takes time.

But the game can still be turned around and Mythic is kinda in a tight spot, EA is cutting down and if WAR doesn't turn around they will not be able to do another big game like it ever.

So the final word isn't in yet but it will take a lot of work still.

Actually, when the game designer has already hit big with an RvR game I would have expected on release that the RvR would be fun. It shouldn't have to take time and mulitple patches to fix RvR when that is what made Mythic who they are.

DaoC put them on the map, not because of pve or battlegrounds but RvR. So I'd have to disagree with you about this. 

WaR was never intended to have ORvR like we were expecting. The whole game was being created around scenarios which was the first of many flaws which is why  beta testers told Mythic their game was crap and caused MJ to put keeps into the game.

While i like Warhammer and the concept behind it, truth is this game is far from what it could or should be. I know mythic is catching up  and fixed many things, but I also have to agree with one above poster that , considering mythic's background in the RvR aspect, many things should had been done before release.

Many aspects of Warhammer End game were simmply under-par. Some still are. And, because of that, the concept of warhammer being a menace to WoW vanished rather fast.

One only needs to defend something if there is either a perception of menace or an attack. Right now, even with some problems in WoW (some of them apparently correct in 3 days - arenas and WG) and borked class balance,  Warhammer is not in a position to fill any of those.

i left warcraft recently because the game is in a terrible state pvp wise . the lag makes wintersgrasp unplayable .the imablances in the classes are the worst i ve ever seen and there is no interest in the battlegrounds . warhammer offers a far superior option for the pvp player at the moment . warcraft certainly does pve better and offers a lot more world depth.  in the short term warhammer is a lot more fun . its a game you can pick up for the odd month and still get a lot out of it . to be honest i m totally bored with wow these days not for the games quality but because of blizzards incapability to sort out the issues that are killing the pvp side of the game .

i'm also wow tired (what is to expect when you make /played and see 4xx days in 1 char) but I haven't really had much lag problems in WG apart 2 days ago and, from what I saw today, they are fixed.

As for the pvp part, considering that for 4 years I played always a ret paladin and basicly in pvp, from rank 14 to arenas, now is not really a bad time for me. I can finally play without having to put superhuman concentration to achieve what others have been doing for 4 years without losing their hair.  That is not saying you don't have some reason in some aspects about pvp ( pvp loot from pve badges is, for me a bad call, resilience needs to increase to compensate burst dmg etc).

But, to a point you'll end up facing the same probs in warhammer once you reach the end of t4. The renown system for example is almost like a pre-tbc ranking system without decay (pure grind), class balance is not that much better, and the ORVR is still not good enough for a game where ORVR is supposed to the the focus. I often end up playing in t2 or t3 because it is much more fun than t4. And it shouldn't.

Edit: this is not blind bashing in warhammer. I have a sub and plan to keep it (and i dont keep subing to games i consider bad)  i play it on a regular basis, I have some fun. But I also know that I  could be playing it much more and have much more fun also if some things are solved/added, and that sometimes is a bit bitter

I quit wow because I found its pvp to be very boring. They treat pvpers in Wow like second class citizens. If you pvp in Wow you get welfare epics. Thx saying my gear is ghetto really makes a pvp player feel good. And I for one hate to do dungeons. Wow dungeons are good but I don't like to do dungeons. I just like to pvp all day and War fits the bill.

if you feel bad because they say it is welfare stuff  then it's you that have a problem ( aka you should care what they say, there is only 1 important player in wow, you, rest is part of the landscape really)-> this is a really good advise that you should use in any mmorpg...

besides pve gear nowa is more welfare than pvp gear from the looks of it

war does fir the bill yes. but honestly it could fit much better.

Hmmm... thats will be an interesting shift in Wow (WOTLK) if PVP gear becomes more powerful than PVE gear because it was not the case in BC. 

pvp gear is not better, pve gear just become welfare cause it is easier to get .

Warhammers PvP is in a different league altogether compared to Warcrafts.

Warcrafts PvP has actually gotten alot worse since release, that's how far they've come. It's not like anyone plays WoW for PvP anyway, it's a PvE game and thats the one thing it does right.

Of course if you want to PvP with 5year old graphics, no pvp level system and rampant class imbalances be my guest.