I honestly think more of the haters would say they were wrong if the game succeeds than vice versa.

The rabid fan boys have already shown that when the so called haters are proven right, time and again so far, they dissapear for a few days and don't say anything...the forums get awful quiet.

I'll say i'm sorry when I see proof there is a game and then play it.

Originally posted by ProfRed

Originally posted by smurfmurf

Originally posted by ProfRed

They won't apologize.  No MMORPG is perfect at launch.  They will find something wrong with it, like lack of theme park quests and run with it.  Then all the vapor trolls will jump over and join them and they will write this game off as fail.  Then in a few months if it is still around they will discover it without their crap stained troll goggles on and play it, and a few months later they will be singing it's praises, and then a few years later they will talk about 'the glory days' when DF launched and how great of a game it was just like with SWG, and EVE.

They are blinded by their own hate like an angry mob, and have been for some time now.  This is all of course if the game is good, and over the first few months grows into something beautiful.  It could bomb like the others and just feed the troll army with more bitter disgruntled gamers.

 

wishful thinking

Still wishful thinking. The game is not going to be good because they don't have resources to maintan a somewhat decent server let alone allocating a whole population of players. In theory it's a vapoware

The only ones that should ever apologize are fanbois and haters. They are illogical and only promote their agenda not reasonable discussion. The rest of us owe nothing to anyone.

AV and Tasos in particular has acted in an outrageous and incompetent manner. This has nothing to do with the game which may well be glorious but that does not pardon such gross misconduct over the years from Tasos and AV. Even if the game itself is grand its fate still lays in the hands of people that have shown no ability to deal with the public and in fact shown little in the way of ethics. We all hope this changes....

.

Well they have had issue with "hackers" in the past so, its plausible.

As to the haters and getting an apology. Nah.

Probably a Darkfall employee, keeping the buzz alive.

Buzz created gossip and copycats, Then fanboys jump on and boom you got a hype war, it can keep a game in the public eye for a long time, its easily molded with a few vids or screenshots, in turn saving a company a nice gob of cash in advertising fees.

Some folks may say tinfoil hat, i say take the paper sack off your head so i can put yours on for ya.

And for the topic, the copycats will just sink back into the emo world again, then "meretriciously" emerge re energized when they find a Topic they can get the attention they are living for

Originally posted by arcana6

---

You're correct.  Not everyone in the war against Darkfall are running DDoS scripts against Adventurine's forums.  That's just the technical squads which are entirely different from the disinformation and the psychological warfare waged on forums such as this.  It may be wrong but in my mind I generally bundle them on the same side - the side that wants to see it fail.

You are so far out of touch with reality on this one it is laughable. Really, technical DDOS squads of DF trolls working to keep the company down... are you serious?!?! Just glaze over the fact that if Aventurine had any security what so ever these attacks would not have been successful. A simple IPS system would have bypassed the past few days of pain for them at minimal cost. To lump forum critics in with criminals (DDOS is criminal) is simply idiotic.

Am I skeptical about Darkfall?  I'm skeptical of every MMORPG because we've been subjected to such complete crap excuses for games over the past few years.  The truth is that the "fanbois" here are not saying "OMFG Darkfall is the best game ever!" because they don't know that.  They're just excited about the possibility of finally having a decent MMORPG.  We've sure waited long enough for one!

YES THEY ARE! Many of the hardcore fanbois on here are in fact saying DF is the best MMO ever. Anyone who even remotely hints at criticism is labelled a troll immediately no matter how valid their point might be. There are irrational people on both sides of the coin here... to only see one side shows your bias. You can say you are neutral in this matter but clearly your statements indicate otherwise.

Large companies have generally pandered to the vocal minority in games.  They probably spend more man hours sifting through idiotic keyboard spew on their forums than they do actually improving their games.  Their publishers push them in to releasing games that aren't ready or sometimes aren't even playable (Star Wars Galaxies, Vanguard, Age of Conan to name a few).  Having a big company make a game is most certainly NOT a recipe for success, so I'm happy to give the little company a try.

I agree with most of your points here, although again you seem to take things to extremes. Having money does not mean automatic success, but it certain can help. Indy companies are good for developing on the edge... trying concepts that corps tend to shy away from. They are the risk takers and DF is no exception. Where they went wrong was how they have treated their community. The actions of the past have lead to the animosity of the past few days.

People keep bashing the NDA too.  They absolutely need the NDA.  It's not there to stop players from knowing cool stuff - it's there to stop their competition from knowing cool stuff.  Look how fast WoW implemented Achievements and Siege PvP based on what they learned from WAR beta.  Adventurine's best chance of success is to keep things as quiet as possible so that people like Blizzard don't take the best bits too early.

Sorry, but a month out from release if they are actually serious about release this time would not give any company enough time to implement any of the core systems ALREADY LISTED ON THEIR WEBSITE! More to the point everything they are doing has been done before... there is nothing ground breaking in the game. If someone wanted to copy them it would have happened by now. This is a completely failed argument on why the NDA should remain u

I won't even check it when this crap get released I will already be lvl 5x in Aion by then having fun while the fanbois hit the nail on the head with a poorly designed game barely responsive controllability and an all bugged server plus lag . Epic Darkfail.

Originally posted by fyerwall

No offense, but Tinfoil Hat much?

I highly doubt someone would go out of thier way to stop Aventurine from operating its webserver in the hope that it would prevent Darkfall from succeeding. I mean its plausable that some irate hater went insane and attempted to bring it down, but its also higly unlikely.

You just said you highly doubt someone would attack their servers and then said it's plausible.  It doesn't take a massive amount of skill to take a site down with a DDoS attack - it's probably just swamped with traffic from multiple sources.  Someone quite obviously did go out of their way.

The theory that Adventurine are faking it doesn't really stand up to scrutiny either since they're still posting their announcements via www.darkfallonline.com.  If you've spent any time on the official forums you'll know that updates happen so infrequently that it makes sod all difference.

It wont be awesome. It CANT be awesome. Its first game that this company makes and they failed few times already with DF. It will be released, but it will be full of bugs and without promised features. Believe me i WANT it to be successful .If they deliver product that has at least crucial features and bugs that we can compromise then it will be great , so lets wish luck to thease 30 brave guys who took very hard way to make successful mmo.

Originally posted by 6SlipKnoT6

It wont be awesome. It CANT be awesome. Its first game that this company makes and they failed few times already with DF. It will be released, but it will be full of bugs and without promised features. Believe me i WANT it to be successful .If they deliver product that has at least crucial features and bugs that we can compromise then it will be great , so lets wish luck to thease 30 brave guys who took very hard way to make successful mmo.

this seems to be a prevalent feeling throughout the mmorpg DF forums, "this game will suck b/c the company hurt my feelings."

Leaks say that this game barely has any bugs. And even before the epic patch yesterday, all the "crucial features" (city building, full loot, combat, crafting) were turned on. And how did they "fail a few times already with DF", they haven't released it yet, how do you know they failed (though them talking about an 03 release was fail, i'll give you that).

You do not want it to be successful guys, face it.

Originally posted by arcana666

Originally posted by fyerwall

No offense, but Tinfoil Hat much?

I highly doubt someone would go out of thier way to stop Aventurine from operating its webserver in the hope that it would prevent Darkfall from succeeding. I mean its plausable that some irate hater went insane and attempted to bring it down, but its also higly unlikely.

You just said you highly doubt someone would attack their servers and then said it's plausible.  It doesn't take a massive amount of skill to take a site down with a DDoS attack - it's probably just swamped with traffic from multiple sources.  Someone quite obviously did go out of their way.

The theory that Adventurine are faking it doesn't really stand up to scrutiny either since they're still posting their announcements via www.darkfallonline.com.  If you've spent any time on the official forums you'll know that updates happen so infrequently that it makes sod all difference.

Something can be highly unlikely and plausible. Your theory would be just as likely as if Aventurine conspired to make it appear like they were under DDOS attack. Both while plausible are so remotely unlikely to not warrant legitimate discussion.

Originally posted by arcana666

Originally posted by fyerwall

No offense, but Tinfoil Hat much?

I highly doubt someone would go out of thier way to stop Aventurine from operating its webserver in the hope that it would prevent Darkfall from succeeding. I mean its plausable that some irate hater went insane and attempted to bring it down, but its also higly unlikely.

You just said you highly doubt someone would attack their servers and then said it's plausible.  It doesn't take a massive amount of skill to take a site down with a DDoS attack - it's probably just swamped with traffic from multiple sources.  Someone quite obviously did go out of their way.

The theory that Adventurine are faking it doesn't really stand up to scrutiny either since they're still posting their announcements via www.darkfallonline.com.  If you've spent any time on the official forums you'll know that updates happen so infrequently that it makes sod all difference.

yeah, they KNOW their forums are down and thus are updating their main website. Main website updates are much more rarer than forumfall updates, so yeah, they are working around their forums being down.

---

You are so far out of touch with reality on this one it is laughable. Really, technical DDOS squads of DF trolls working to keep the company down... are you serious?!?! Just glaze over the fact that if Aventurine had any security what so ever these attacks would not have been successful. A simple IPS system would have bypassed the past few days of pain for them at minimal cost. To lump forum critics in with criminals (DDOS is criminal) is simply idiotic.

---

It's not far fetched to assume that people attacking a company don't like the company.  There's no such thing as a simple IPS system.  Firstly IPS stands for Intrusion Prevention System which will not help at all in a DDoS attack since no intruder has hacked into the servers.  DDoS (Distributed Denial of Service) attacks by definition use multiple sources to overrun the capacity of the target.  Yes it's criminal.  Do I think anyone here is responsible? I doubt it but I was pointing out that the Darkfall opposition in general is very strong - so strong that their website is being attacked by script kiddies.

---

YES THEY ARE! Many of the hardcore fanbois on here are in fact saying DF is the best MMO ever. Anyone who even remotely hints at criticism is labelled a troll immediately no matter how valid their point might be. There are irrational people on both sides of the coin here... to only see one side shows your bias. You can say you are neutral in this matter but clearly your statements indicate otherwise.

---

I didn't state I was neutral and neither have you.  In my opinion if Darkfall is as advertised then it will be the best MMORPG ever made... for me.  It won't be everyone's cup of tea.  Nobody can say it's awesome atm because we know very little about the final product and those that do know seem to be upholding their NDA.  I am biased in that I'm willing to give them the benefit of the doubt.  I've not handed over any money and in that respect I don't feel like they owe me anything.

---

Sorry, but a month out from release if they are actually serious about release this time would not give any company enough time to implement any of the core systems ALREADY LISTED ON THEIR WEBSITE! More to the point everything they are doing has been done before... there is nothing ground breaking in the game. If someone wanted to copy them it would have happened by now. This is a completely failed argument on why the NDA should remain u

---

And yet there is not another modern 3D MMORPG in existance with the same features. Quite honestly the industry has been so lacking in innovation that anything that goes against the EQ / WoW formula should be considered ground-breaking.

Btw, I don't think delaying the release everytime is a good marketing strategy, do you? It gets people to talk about the game, sure, except for the fact that the image is fucking NEGATIVE! this bit plus being owned by some nuker kid in his bubble  and connect the dots why this game is going to fail    aventurine is n00b

Originally posted by smurfmurf

Btw, I don't think delaying the release everytime is a good marketing strategy, do you? It gets people to talk about the game, sure, except for the fact that the image is fucking NEGATIVE! this bit plus being owned by some nuker kid in his bubble  and connect the dots why this game is going to fail    aventurine is n00b

Gee I wonder whose alt you are. 

Originally posted by smurfmurf

Btw, I don't think delaying the release everytime is a good marketing strategy, do you? It gets people to talk about the game, sure, except for the fact that the image is fucking NEGATIVE! this bit plus being owned by some nuker kid in his bubble  and connect the dots why this game is going to fail    aventurine is n00b

well so must Blizzard and nearly every other mmo dev. your logic=flawless, you should be a philosopher

Originally posted by arcana666

 

---

You are so far out of touch with reality on this one it is laughable. Really, technical DDOS squads of DF trolls working to keep the company down... are you serious?!?! Just glaze over the fact that if Aventurine had any security what so ever these attacks would not have been successful. A simple IPS system would have bypassed the past few days of pain for them at minimal cost. To lump forum critics in with criminals (DDOS is criminal) is simply idiotic.

---

It's not far fetched to assume that people attacking a company don't like the company.  There's no such thing as a simple IPS system.  Firstly IPS stands for Intrusion Prevention System which will not help at all in a DDoS attack since no intruder has hacked into the servers.  DDoS (Distributed Denial of Service) attacks by definition use multiple sources to overrun the capacity of the target.  Yes it's criminal.  Do I think anyone here is responsible? I doubt it but I was pointing out that the Darkfall opposition in general is very strong - so strong that their website is being attacked by script kiddies. 
 

IPS include firewall. How come firewalls don't prevent DDoS attacks? Aventurine is wasting too much time discussing in their game forum rather than working on some useful thing.

I'm more interested in what the fanboys say/do when they find the game is a mess, assuming it ever gets released of course. Will they even admit it to themselves? Will they claim victory just by being released, after all the false expectations about it.

Originally posted by Mahlo

I'm more interested in what the fanboys say/do when they find the game is a mess, assuming it ever gets released of course. Will they even admit it to themselves? Will they claim victory just by being released, after all the false expectations about it.

well, since a fanboi made this thread about what trolls/haters will do when this game is a success, and you are wondering the EXACT opposite, what does this make you?

If Df releases and is "awesome" I WILL apologize! :D

If it even releases ill apologise if its awesome ill chop my left nut off.

Originally posted by rageagainst

Originally posted by smurfmurf

Btw, I don't think delaying the release everytime is a good marketing strategy, do you? It gets people to talk about the game, sure, except for the fact that the image is fucking NEGATIVE! this bit plus being owned by some nuker kid in his bubble  and connect the dots why this game is going to fail    aventurine is n00b

well so must Blizzard and nearly every other mmo dev. your logic=flawless, you should be a philosopher

The difference is Blizzard doesn't  play around, they just deliver the games. Which can't be said of a group of nerds that is small talking about their shitty eternally in production game since Bush still had a lot of popularity

Originally posted by Warcriminal

If Df releases and is "awesome" I WILL apologize! :D

 

 

to the company or to DF? DF deserves no criticism at all since its not out yet, but the company DESERVES criticism in their horrible dealing with the fans during development. Your criticism is valid unless you're a ridiculously retarded hater and said something absurd (like they are not making a game, etc.)

---

IPS include firewall. How come firewalls don't prevent DDoS attacks? Aventurine is wasting too much time discussing in their game forum rather than working on some useful thing.

---

Just one reason (of many) of why a firewall may not help in a DDoS attack is that the attack could be as simple as making legit hhtp requests from multiple sources, over and over and exceeding the bandwidth capacity of the target. You can't firewall that without denying everyone access to your site.
 
 

Originally posted by Zorvan

Originally posted by rageagainst

Originally posted by admriker4

Im not apologizing ever. Aventurine deserves all the critics and scorn.

1. 8.5 years in development. Some devs could have released TWO MMO's in that amount of time. Well did you check what they were making? This is a really gigantic project. I won't put the "small company" thing in b/c I think that's a BS excuse, but really... they weren't developing that long, 8.5 years ago they only had 1 to 3 people and were just thinking of how the game is going to pan out. If I'm not mistaken, they scrapped their rasorwax darkfall and became aventurine, and around 2003, they completely revamped their game (03 was when the game was first supposed to be released) because they got more money. I think its more like 5 yrs.... and... most really great games have long dev times last i checked. 

Yay, I get to posts this again for the naive among us:

 

And before the fanbots scream "It's a new company! The game was completely rebuilt from scratch!!", here's a nice find posted by templarga in another thread: www.mmorpg.com/discussion2.cfm/post/2583342#2583342

Found it myself:

1. FAQ over at WarCry: df.warcry.com/faq/view/237/

If you click on the "What is razorwax?" question (1.3) it will give you the history of Razorwax, Aventurine and Darkfall.

2. Here is a detailed article at WarCry about the history of the game up to the point the article was written (2007): www.warcry.com/articles/view/editorials/3222-Surlys-Column-State-of-the-Game-Darkfall-Razorwax-and-Aventurine-Heres-the-Rub

3. Here is an interview from 2003 at GameBanshee:www.gamebanshee.com/interviews/darkfall2-1.php

This is a direct quote from the interview:

"GB: It's been nearly two years since we talked to you last, so can you give us a quick summary of where you stand in the development of Darkfall?

Claus: We have come a long way since the first Gamebanshee interview. Back then we had the four guys in a basement, now we have a team of 20 people working hard on finishing the game. We also moved country,from a basement in Oslo, Norway to modern offices close to the Olympic stadium in Athens, Greece. We all have a nice tan now.

Darkfall is entering closed beta testing in September this year. The closed beta is fully playable, with most core features implemented. We will be adding features and content during closed beta, while we gear up for the next beta stages.

GB: In the past couple of years, have any of your design goals changed? Has anything been cut/added from the development process?

Claus: Very little has changed. We have stayed true to the original design, and kept almost all of the features promised when we launched the Darkfall site two years ago. We sadly had to remove some popular features such as flying mounts, for reasons having to do with game balance issues related to sieges, and deformable terrain, due to possible latency issues. We have tried to make up for it by adding more content than originally planned. We'll be looking at possibly implementing these features at a later date. "

4. Here is an interview at IGnVault in 2005: rpgvault.ign.com/articles/671/671666p1.html

Direct quote again: "Jonric: Still looking at the past year or so, what are the notable improvements and additions you've made to Darkfall?

Claus Grovdal: From a design point of view, nothing notable has changed from the main parameters. Last year has been all about adding content plus refining and tweaking various aspects of the game."

-----

 

Do you see a trend here? Nothing much changed from the original game announced by Razorwax back in 2001. No "revamp". Nothing can be clearer and more obvious.

 

So, from 2001 to now 2009, that's 8 years of development. Straight from Claus' mouth.

Oh, you'll also note the "closed beta is fully playable with most core features in".

Interesting how the Darkfall cultists haven't directly replied to this post, considering it pretty much proves that Razorwax/Tasos/Aventurine have lied and will continue to lie about their game.

In any case, if this cult has lasted 8 years, it will last many more no matter the delays, broken promises, or lies.