Originally posted by arcana666

Originally posted by fyerwall

No offense, but Tinfoil Hat much?

I highly doubt someone would go out of thier way to stop Aventurine from operating its webserver in the hope that it would prevent Darkfall from succeeding. I mean its plausable that some irate hater went insane and attempted to bring it down, but its also higly unlikely.

You just said you highly doubt someone would attack their servers and then said it's plausible.  It doesn't take a massive amount of skill to take a site down with a DDoS attack - it's probably just swamped with traffic from multiple sources.  Someone quite obviously did go out of their way.

The theory that Adventurine are faking it doesn't really stand up to scrutiny either since they're still posting their announcements via www.darkfallonline.com.  If you've spent any time on the official forums you'll know that updates happen so infrequently that it makes sod all difference.

Something can be highly unlikely and plausible. Your theory would be just as likely as if Aventurine conspired to make it appear like they were under DDOS attack. Both while plausible are so remotely unlikely to not warrant legitimate discussion.

Originally posted by arcana666

Originally posted by fyerwall

No offense, but Tinfoil Hat much?

I highly doubt someone would go out of thier way to stop Aventurine from operating its webserver in the hope that it would prevent Darkfall from succeeding. I mean its plausable that some irate hater went insane and attempted to bring it down, but its also higly unlikely.

You just said you highly doubt someone would attack their servers and then said it's plausible.  It doesn't take a massive amount of skill to take a site down with a DDoS attack - it's probably just swamped with traffic from multiple sources.  Someone quite obviously did go out of their way.

The theory that Adventurine are faking it doesn't really stand up to scrutiny either since they're still posting their announcements via www.darkfallonline.com.  If you've spent any time on the official forums you'll know that updates happen so infrequently that it makes sod all difference.

yeah, they KNOW their forums are down and thus are updating their main website. Main website updates are much more rarer than forumfall updates, so yeah, they are working around their forums being down.

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You are so far out of touch with reality on this one it is laughable. Really, technical DDOS squads of DF trolls working to keep the company down... are you serious?!?! Just glaze over the fact that if Aventurine had any security what so ever these attacks would not have been successful. A simple IPS system would have bypassed the past few days of pain for them at minimal cost. To lump forum critics in with criminals (DDOS is criminal) is simply idiotic.

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It's not far fetched to assume that people attacking a company don't like the company.  There's no such thing as a simple IPS system.  Firstly IPS stands for Intrusion Prevention System which will not help at all in a DDoS attack since no intruder has hacked into the servers.  DDoS (Distributed Denial of Service) attacks by definition use multiple sources to overrun the capacity of the target.  Yes it's criminal.  Do I think anyone here is responsible? I doubt it but I was pointing out that the Darkfall opposition in general is very strong - so strong that their website is being attacked by script kiddies.

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YES THEY ARE! Many of the hardcore fanbois on here are in fact saying DF is the best MMO ever. Anyone who even remotely hints at criticism is labelled a troll immediately no matter how valid their point might be. There are irrational people on both sides of the coin here... to only see one side shows your bias. You can say you are neutral in this matter but clearly your statements indicate otherwise.

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I didn't state I was neutral and neither have you.  In my opinion if Darkfall is as advertised then it will be the best MMORPG ever made... for me.  It won't be everyone's cup of tea.  Nobody can say it's awesome atm because we know very little about the final product and those that do know seem to be upholding their NDA.  I am biased in that I'm willing to give them the benefit of the doubt.  I've not handed over any money and in that respect I don't feel like they owe me anything.

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Sorry, but a month out from release if they are actually serious about release this time would not give any company enough time to implement any of the core systems ALREADY LISTED ON THEIR WEBSITE! More to the point everything they are doing has been done before... there is nothing ground breaking in the game. If someone wanted to copy them it would have happened by now. This is a completely failed argument on why the NDA should remain u

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And yet there is not another modern 3D MMORPG in existance with the same features. Quite honestly the industry has been so lacking in innovation that anything that goes against the EQ / WoW formula should be considered ground-breaking.

Btw, I don't think delaying the release everytime is a good marketing strategy, do you? It gets people to talk about the game, sure, except for the fact that the image is fucking NEGATIVE! this bit plus being owned by some nuker kid in his bubble  and connect the dots why this game is going to fail    aventurine is n00b

Originally posted by smurfmurf

Btw, I don't think delaying the release everytime is a good marketing strategy, do you? It gets people to talk about the game, sure, except for the fact that the image is fucking NEGATIVE! this bit plus being owned by some nuker kid in his bubble  and connect the dots why this game is going to fail    aventurine is n00b

Gee I wonder whose alt you are. 

Originally posted by smurfmurf

Btw, I don't think delaying the release everytime is a good marketing strategy, do you? It gets people to talk about the game, sure, except for the fact that the image is fucking NEGATIVE! this bit plus being owned by some nuker kid in his bubble  and connect the dots why this game is going to fail    aventurine is n00b

well so must Blizzard and nearly every other mmo dev. your logic=flawless, you should be a philosopher

Originally posted by arcana666

 

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You are so far out of touch with reality on this one it is laughable. Really, technical DDOS squads of DF trolls working to keep the company down... are you serious?!?! Just glaze over the fact that if Aventurine had any security what so ever these attacks would not have been successful. A simple IPS system would have bypassed the past few days of pain for them at minimal cost. To lump forum critics in with criminals (DDOS is criminal) is simply idiotic.

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It's not far fetched to assume that people attacking a company don't like the company.  There's no such thing as a simple IPS system.  Firstly IPS stands for Intrusion Prevention System which will not help at all in a DDoS attack since no intruder has hacked into the servers.  DDoS (Distributed Denial of Service) attacks by definition use multiple sources to overrun the capacity of the target.  Yes it's criminal.  Do I think anyone here is responsible? I doubt it but I was pointing out that the Darkfall opposition in general is very strong - so strong that their website is being attacked by script kiddies. 
 

IPS include firewall. How come firewalls don't prevent DDoS attacks? Aventurine is wasting too much time discussing in their game forum rather than working on some useful thing.

I'm more interested in what the fanboys say/do when they find the game is a mess, assuming it ever gets released of course. Will they even admit it to themselves? Will they claim victory just by being released, after all the false expectations about it.

Originally posted by Mahlo

I'm more interested in what the fanboys say/do when they find the game is a mess, assuming it ever gets released of course. Will they even admit it to themselves? Will they claim victory just by being released, after all the false expectations about it.

well, since a fanboi made this thread about what trolls/haters will do when this game is a success, and you are wondering the EXACT opposite, what does this make you?

If Df releases and is "awesome" I WILL apologize! :D

If it even releases ill apologise if its awesome ill chop my left nut off.

Originally posted by rageagainst

Originally posted by smurfmurf

Btw, I don't think delaying the release everytime is a good marketing strategy, do you? It gets people to talk about the game, sure, except for the fact that the image is fucking NEGATIVE! this bit plus being owned by some nuker kid in his bubble  and connect the dots why this game is going to fail    aventurine is n00b

well so must Blizzard and nearly every other mmo dev. your logic=flawless, you should be a philosopher

The difference is Blizzard doesn't  play around, they just deliver the games. Which can't be said of a group of nerds that is small talking about their shitty eternally in production game since Bush still had a lot of popularity

Originally posted by Warcriminal

If Df releases and is "awesome" I WILL apologize! :D

 

 

to the company or to DF? DF deserves no criticism at all since its not out yet, but the company DESERVES criticism in their horrible dealing with the fans during development. Your criticism is valid unless you're a ridiculously retarded hater and said something absurd (like they are not making a game, etc.)

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IPS include firewall. How come firewalls don't prevent DDoS attacks? Aventurine is wasting too much time discussing in their game forum rather than working on some useful thing.

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Just one reason (of many) of why a firewall may not help in a DDoS attack is that the attack could be as simple as making legit hhtp requests from multiple sources, over and over and exceeding the bandwidth capacity of the target. You can't firewall that without denying everyone access to your site.
 
 

Originally posted by Zorvan

Originally posted by rageagainst

Originally posted by admriker4

Im not apologizing ever. Aventurine deserves all the critics and scorn.

1. 8.5 years in development. Some devs could have released TWO MMO's in that amount of time. Well did you check what they were making? This is a really gigantic project. I won't put the "small company" thing in b/c I think that's a BS excuse, but really... they weren't developing that long, 8.5 years ago they only had 1 to 3 people and were just thinking of how the game is going to pan out. If I'm not mistaken, they scrapped their rasorwax darkfall and became aventurine, and around 2003, they completely revamped their game (03 was when the game was first supposed to be released) because they got more money. I think its more like 5 yrs.... and... most really great games have long dev times last i checked. 

Yay, I get to posts this again for the naive among us:

 

And before the fanbots scream "It's a new company! The game was completely rebuilt from scratch!!", here's a nice find posted by templarga in another thread: www.mmorpg.com/discussion2.cfm/post/2583342#2583342

Found it myself:

1. FAQ over at WarCry: df.warcry.com/faq/view/237/

If you click on the "What is razorwax?" question (1.3) it will give you the history of Razorwax, Aventurine and Darkfall.

2. Here is a detailed article at WarCry about the history of the game up to the point the article was written (2007): www.warcry.com/articles/view/editorials/3222-Surlys-Column-State-of-the-Game-Darkfall-Razorwax-and-Aventurine-Heres-the-Rub

3. Here is an interview from 2003 at GameBanshee:www.gamebanshee.com/interviews/darkfall2-1.php

This is a direct quote from the interview:

"GB: It's been nearly two years since we talked to you last, so can you give us a quick summary of where you stand in the development of Darkfall?

Claus: We have come a long way since the first Gamebanshee interview. Back then we had the four guys in a basement, now we have a team of 20 people working hard on finishing the game. We also moved country,from a basement in Oslo, Norway to modern offices close to the Olympic stadium in Athens, Greece. We all have a nice tan now.

Darkfall is entering closed beta testing in September this year. The closed beta is fully playable, with most core features implemented. We will be adding features and content during closed beta, while we gear up for the next beta stages.

GB: In the past couple of years, have any of your design goals changed? Has anything been cut/added from the development process?

Claus: Very little has changed. We have stayed true to the original design, and kept almost all of the features promised when we launched the Darkfall site two years ago. We sadly had to remove some popular features such as flying mounts, for reasons having to do with game balance issues related to sieges, and deformable terrain, due to possible latency issues. We have tried to make up for it by adding more content than originally planned. We'll be looking at possibly implementing these features at a later date. "

4. Here is an interview at IGnVault in 2005: rpgvault.ign.com/articles/671/671666p1.html

Direct quote again: "Jonric: Still looking at the past year or so, what are the notable improvements and additions you've made to Darkfall?

Claus Grovdal: From a design point of view, nothing notable has changed from the main parameters. Last year has been all about adding content plus refining and tweaking various aspects of the game."

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Do you see a trend here? Nothing much changed from the original game announced by Razorwax back in 2001. No "revamp". Nothing can be clearer and more obvious.

 

So, from 2001 to now 2009, that's 8 years of development. Straight from Claus' mouth.

Oh, you'll also note the "closed beta is fully playable with most core features in".

Interesting how the Darkfall cultists haven't directly replied to this post, considering it pretty much proves that Razorwax/Tasos/Aventurine have lied and will continue to lie about their game.

In any case, if this cult has lasted 8 years, it will last many more no matter the delays, broken promises, or lies.

Originally posted by smurfmurf

Originally posted by rageagainst

Originally posted by smurfmurf

Btw, I don't think delaying the release everytime is a good marketing strategy, do you? It gets people to talk about the game, sure, except for the fact that the image is fucking NEGATIVE! this bit plus being owned by some nuker kid in his bubble  and connect the dots why this game is going to fail    aventurine is n00b

well so must Blizzard and nearly every other mmo dev. your logic=flawless, you should be a philosopher

 

The difference is Blizzard doesn't  play around, they just deliver the games. Which can't be said of a group of nerds that is small talking about their shitty eternally in production game since Bush still had a lot of popularity

you idiots do realize that large production times are, for the majority of games, a good thing?

And I proved you wrong in your first point, you didn't address that, but instead veered your criticism in a different direction, so if i prove you wrong again, you'll do the same, so there's no point

Originally posted by rageagainst

Originally posted by 6SlipKnoT6

It wont be awesome. It CANT be awesome. Its first game that this company makes and they failed few times already with DF. It will be released, but it will be full of bugs and without promised features. Believe me i WANT it to be successful .If they deliver product that has at least crucial features and bugs that we can compromise then it will be great , so lets wish luck to thease 30 brave guys who took very hard way to make successful mmo.

this seems to be a prevalent feeling throughout the mmorpg DF forums, "this game will suck b/c the company hurt my feelings."

Leaks say that this game barely has any bugs. And even before the epic patch yesterday, all the "crucial features" (city building, full loot, combat, crafting) were turned on. And how did they "fail a few times already with DF", they haven't released it yet, how do you know they failed (though them talking about an 03 release was fail, i'll give you that).

You do not want it to be successful guys, face it.

Typical fanboi.Anyway to the point. I bet you arent even familiar how game developing works and how mutch experiance it needs and so on. Leaks can say everything. I believe in real things - like trailer and the gameplay movies. They failed first time when they had to re-do the game because they didnt liked it. And believe me i WANT it to be successful and entirely depends on the company what they realy want from this game - its either money either they put their whole love in it and make it fuckin' every mmo killer , which is easy at the current state of the market. I WANT it to be fantasy settings EVE believe me, because face it or not EVE is the best MMORPG at the moment.

The difference is Blizzard doesn't  play around, they just deliver the games. Which can't be said of a group of nerds that is small talking about their shitty eternally in production game since Bush still had a lot of popularity

Really?  Blizzard's Starcraft II was delayed in to 2008 and then in to Fall 2009.  I was in Paris when they unveiled Diablo III too - think that'll be delayed too?  Burning Crusade was also delayed.  I'm not complaining but it's perfectly normal for game companies to have setbacks, or indeed most software companies.  It's the nature of the beast.

Originally posted by Ajacks_US

Originally posted by Zorvan

 

Interesting how the Darkfall cultists haven't directly replied to this post, considering it pretty much proves that Razorwax/Tasos/Aventurine have lied and will continue to lie about their game.

In any case, if this cult has lasted 8 years, it will last many more no matter the delays, broken promises, or lies.

the post was to prove that the game WAS actually in development for 8+ years, which apparantly it was. Though, you have to realize, that for what the game was aiming for in 03, the game was basically done. At that point they decided to broaden the scope of the game to get the DF they have today (i think back in 03, many promised features were said to be unworkable, like blocking, and everyone complained and thus they decided to develop their homemade engine further)

And, again, there's no coorelation b/w long dev times and failures, its actually the opposite.

Originally posted by rageagainst

Originally posted by Warcriminal

If Df releases and is "awesome" I WILL apologize! :D

 

 

 

to the company or to DF? DF deserves no criticism at all since its not out yet, but the company DESERVES criticism in their horrible dealing with the fans during development. Your criticism is valid unless you're a ridiculously retarded hater and said something absurd (like they are not making a game, etc.)

I was making a subtle joke about the sujectiveness about the term "awesome" by the OP. I am not a rabid hater of this game. I dont think a hardcore pvp game will attract a lot of people, and I think a game of this nature will become very closed after a short while. add to that, my personal gut-feeling that this game will fail to be other than a amateur-garage MMO -much like Dark and Light.