Originally posted by Domenicus

(A pause in the discussion)

I was reading the thread when I stumbled upon what seens as so much despair that even Pirates of Burning Sea and Dark and Light was being seing a good games at any point of their sad life...

Stop it all!!!!!

I know that there is a massive faith in DFO, but there is a limit to how much you can twist the reality to make bad seens good and good seens bad... Please, soon, to support any lie or failure over DFO, we will have people saying that NGE was the greatest wonder on MMO history exactly because Smedley pulled a Tasos and lied and deceived the players, not showing what he was doing...

Actually, no, in my opinion, the Galaxies NGE/CU was pretty much the worst thing to happen in the history of MMOs, except maybe for the launch of World of Warcraft.

OK, I'll be clear what I do like in games:

First, the game has to require a brain. It needs to be at least modestly difficult, and it certainly needs to be complex. Things I liked: Galaxies at launch, EQ II Crafting system at launch (the one they scrapped after like 2-3 months because of bitching), Vanguard at launch (before it was nerfed to accelerate levelling speeds by over 4 times!), PotBS, and yes, DnL.

 Second, the game needs to have a high degree of customization. By this I am not referring to graphic customization, though that's nice too, I mean that characters are not all clones of each other in their abilities/gear. WoW and EQ 2 were particularly offenders in this area, and level+gear based games in general lose my interest within the first month.

 Third, the game needs to have engaging non-combat gameplay. This generally takes the form of crafting in MMOs, though it certainly doesn't have to be that.

Now that's not an incredibly terribly long list of things to satisfy, is it? The problem is WoW has convinced practically the entire industry that #1 and #2 are losing propositions and #3 isn't necessary.

Here's what I don't care much about that puts me at odds with the opinions of some gamers:

 Graphics - They're nice to have, but not important to me. I enjoyed text-based online games for 13 years before coming to MMOs.

 Lack of bugs - I'm a fairly tolerant person. I also have some programming background from a while back and I know there's no such thing as bug-free code of more than a few lines. I've also been around enough game launches to know that every game has a buggy launch and by the very nature of MMOs are not "feature complete" - after all, if the game was complete, how would they release any expansions?

So when people start talking about demanding a finished product, or holding game developers to higher standards or such, what I hear is the guy in front of me at Jack in the Box pounding the counter making an ass out of himself because there's onions on his burger and he's going to cause as big a problem for the poor employees as he can. His expectations are unrealistic and his manner is unfair, all because he's making the enormous personal sacrifice of $4.25. If he wants "service" he should go to a sit down restaurant and remember to tip generously. The customer is not always right - in fact, the customer is generally an idiot.

If you don't like Aventurine, don't pre-order Darkfall. I've got no problem with that. What I do have a problem with is you publicly trying to tear them (or any pre-launch game, really) down so that others never give them a chance.

Originally posted by Gus5000

Soon we will know if they are allowing more people or it is BS. I guess the leakers will undersand this very easy and will let us know. So be patient for about 4 days when the first waves of the testers will start playing.

Haha yes, who needs DF forum when all have access to the DF beta updates. To bad the servers are down or we would have loads of info by now.

You understand the level of "haters" when they think AV are in controll of the blogs on the internet, when they have troubble getting a server working.

And no we don`t need more goblins. NPC grinding is for the WOW clones, we are after some decent FFA pvp with full loot.

Originally posted by Domenicus

I know that there is a massive faith in DFO, but there is a limit to how much you can twist the reality to make bad seens good and good seens bad...

Belief in DFO requires accepting more on "faith" than most religions. 

I made 100 alt accounts from random IP's and with random dxdiag's and didn't get in.

nuff said! Vaporware!

Originally posted by eqfanaatikko

I made 100 alt accounts from random IP's and with random dxdiag's and didn't get in.

 

You got cought on trolling Beta registration thats all

 ... You don't know anything at all.

Originally posted by Hotjazz

Originally posted by Gus5000

Soon we will know if they are allowing more people or it is BS. I guess the leakers will undersand this very easy and will let us know. So be patient for about 4 days when the first waves of the testers will start playing.

 

Haha yes, who needs DF forum when all have access to the DF beta updates. To bad the servers are down or we would have loads of info by now.

You understand the level of "haters" when they think AV are in controll of the blogs on the internet, when they have troubble getting a server working.

And no we don`t need more goblins. NPC grinding is for the WOW clones, we are after some decent FFA pvp with full loot.

 

I know i'm not so clever but who is going to kill the goblins and harvest the resources to allow you to loot something from someone?.  As far as i know the starter weapons are not lootable. I'm confused.... Oh sorry ... i said i'm not so clever... the carebear wow players that will come in masse to Darkfall to be looted by the old school UO and similar players.

When the game is realeased more than one will be really shocked.

Edit: sorry for the OT but i'm getting really tired of these things.

Originally posted by Trissa

I know i'm not so clever but who is going to kill the goblins and harvest the resources to allow you to loot something from someone?. 

It was just a reply to the "we need more goblins post in here"

We have enough goblins to get the gear we need, so we don`t need more goblins. And no, I`m  not the player that would get alot of loot. I`m an average pvper, so I`m the one who are going to lose my gear.

I will probably hate those goblins after being cleanlooted  a few hundred times

Originally posted by Hotjazz

Originally posted by Trissa

I know i'm not so clever but who is going to kill the goblins and harvest the resources to allow you to loot something from someone?. 

 

It was just a reply to the "we need more goblins post in here"

My apologies. I misunderstood your post ... see you why i said i'm not so clever?

We have enough goblins to get the gear we need, so we don`t need more goblins. And no, I`m  not the player that would get alot of loot. I`m an average pvper, so I`m the one who are going to lose my gear.

I will probably hate those goblins after being cleanlooted  a few hundred times

Sure i'll join the club,  you are not going to be alone

---

Originally posted by Kshnik
I just got my invite to Beta.  Downloading now. 

---

ditto. yesterday actually.

Originally posted by eqfanaatikko

I made 100 alt accounts from random IP's and with random dxdiag's and didn't get in.

 

nuff said! Vaporware!

Well, leaving aside the final quality of the game thing,  the client installer is already leaked on a torrent site. So it exists.

http://img158.imageshack.us/img158/5582/0123091223nz7.jpg

Originally posted by Calamar

Originally posted by eqfanaatikko

I made 100 alt accounts from random IP's and with random dxdiag's and didn't get in.

 

nuff said! Vaporware!

 

Well, leaving aside the final quality of the game thing,  the client installer is already leaked on a torrent site. So it exists.

 

Nah... thats just a trojan virus.

Originally posted by Souvec

Originally posted by Calamar

Originally posted by eqfanaatikko

I made 100 alt accounts from random IP's and with random dxdiag's and didn't get in.

 

nuff said! Vaporware!

 

Well, leaving aside the final quality of the game thing,  the client installer is already leaked on a torrent site. So it exists.

 

 

Nah... thats just a trojan virus.

no it isnt

Originally posted by Maverick123w

http://img158.imageshack.us/img158/5582/0123091223nz7.jpg

confirmed real

Originally posted by downtoearth

Originally posted by Maverick123w

http://img158.imageshack.us/img158/5582/0123091223nz7.jpg

confirmed real

By whom?

Originally posted by fyerwall

Originally posted by downtoearth

Originally posted by Maverick123w

http://img158.imageshack.us/img158/5582/0123091223nz7.jpg

confirmed real

 

By whom?

By everyone folowing the leaks and beta testers. If u would have some skill u could technically dl the patcher right now from the DF website or torrents

That really is the icon for Darkfall.

Well the torrents are all over now did a test start no issue to pull the files. But not much point downloading when you can't get in without an invite.

What is the size of the client, Anyone know ?

Originally posted by Yamota

I probably know the answer to that question but just to make sure. There is no free trial running right now, right?

Well if closed beta counts as a free trial I guess people are. It is free but you have to be invited.

:)

Originally posted by dark-merlin

Originally posted by fyerwall

Originally posted by downtoearth

Originally posted by Maverick123w

http://img158.imageshack.us/img158/5582/0123091223nz7.jpg

confirmed real

 

By whom?

 

By everyone folowing the leaks and beta testers. If u would have some skill u could technically dl the patcher right now from the DF website or torrents

no you couldnt

Yes you can =P

Originally posted by WSIMike

Originally posted by Yamota

Originally posted by Sarg01

The original post annoucing the trial starting on Jan 22nd never implied it was anything other than a continuation of closed beta, just with more people getting access:

 

---

Starting on January 22nd there will be a Darkfall trial with the distribution of the release candidate client allowing thousands of players to sample the game for free, help us stress test our servers and test the final features of the game.

---

 

You can read all you want into the word "trial", but all they promised was "thousands of players", "free", "Starting on January 22nd", and that the purpose of the trial was to "test our servers and test the final features of the game" - i.e. beta with more than 1000 new people added (out of the 200,000 that have theoreticaly applied)

 

Read what I want into it? A trial is just as it says, a TRIAL. I.e. not beta testing. If it was more beta testing then they would say at January 22nd we will be adding more beta testers.

They did not, they said a trial, so then why have an NDA for a trial?

Really there is no more reasonable way to discuss this. Either you see how other games are being developed and realise the disparity between those games and this game or you simply are blind to all the weird things presented to you.

Game has been ready to be released since decembre. A release date was announced on January 22nd but instead it was changed to a "trial" but what it really seem to be is more closed beta testing with an NDA not allowing you to even mention that you are in the "trial". This is just insane.... INSANE!

Yeah, seems like they're trying to have it both ways.

"Starting on January 22nd there will be a Darkfall trial with the distribution of the release candidate client allowing thousands of players to sample the game for free, help us stress test our servers and test the final features of the game."

Basically they're trying to make it sound like something other than what it really is.... a beta... by calling it a "free trial to sample the game".

For those who might not see the disparity, here's the thing:

"Free Trials" are given for completed and released games.

"Release Candidates" are basically exactly what they sound like... builds that may potentially "go gold" if testing proves them to be stable enough and ready for retail release. This is why when you download other software that's in beta, you'll see options such as RC1, RC2... aka Release Candidate 1, Release Candidate 2. It's a term inherent to beta testing.

"Stress Testing" is another part of beta testing activity; to test the stability and integrity of the software/hardware when thousands of live players are thrown at it simultaneously. This is not done during a "Free Trial". This is usually done at least a couple weeks, if not more, before the game goes live.

And finally...
"testing the final features of the game" - That's got beta testing written all over it. You don't "test final features" on a product that, as Tasos has said in the past, has been ready to be released for months. You do that with software that is *not* deemed ready for release.

What they're doing is basically trying to dupe their fans into believing that somehow they're being generous by letting you "sample the game for free".

FFS... Why all the spin? Just call it what it is. It's a damn beta test, not a "free trial", no matter how Tasos and co. package it up.

Another example of their disingenuous spin, along with blatant misuse of well-defined terminology.

And of course, some of the fans relentlessly swear by, defend or otherwise presume to know "what he really meant" with every word he says - even, or especially, when what he says and what he does don't add up.

The guy has been tap-dancing around the true state of the game for years now. Some people devour anything he says like a starved dog without applying even an ounce of scrutiny.

I'm not against DF and I hope it does come out in a form that will make its most avid followers happy... But the complete and willful abandonment of any sense of objectivity some people display is really sad.

Step back and look at things as they are, not for what you really really want them to be. The two are not the same.

 

Very well summed!

Originally posted by stayontarget

What is the size of the client, Anyone know ?

Looked between 6 to 8 gig.