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Originally posted by Souvec

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Originally posted by rikilii

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Originally posted by Death1942

if you do a quick google search using certain words you can quite easily find an almost carbon copy of the game being made.  We arent allowed to discuss it here though.

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Why would you not be allowed to discuss an MMO on and MMO site?

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Because of "legal" issues surrounding that particular MMO in development....

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I don't think it will ever see the light of day. Who knows, maybe it will be finished but who is gonna pony up to $ for those server clusters.

op:

I suppose every vet feels the same. Me included. SWG showed me how a real RPG should look like. It was perfect for me. If it only could have been managed by something else than baboons it would have still been around today

Originally posted by gestalt11

So all you Pre-CU people:

 

Why aren't you playing Ryzom or Neocron?  Maybe if the people who pined for the fjords of Pre-Cu put their money where their mouth is and support games done in a similar vein then people will take you seriously.

 

Rather than creating thread #11898383 about how SOE is evil because they released some games on steam.

 

Frankly I just don't beliueve half the Pre-CU lovers.  I think that they are purely the victim of nostalgia, because they don't seem to act consistently.

pre-cu VET here aswell a for 8 months returning player in 2007 with SWG
 

Okay why aren't I playing Ryzom:

For starters the visuals do not appeal to me, I am not a gamer into feature's alone, I want my eye's to have a as pleasant experience as my mind. Ryzon only provides one side FOR ME and MY PLAYSTYLE. I don't like their art style, while it looks good it isn't something I personally like (hope you know what I mean with that).

Neocron, beta the game somewhere in 2004 if I'm not mistaken about the date, only thing I recall I was not enjoying the graphics and animations, overall the game felt abit messy, oh but am talking about N2 Dome of York, I have never played Neocron 1 sort of speak itself, as far I can remember. Anyway it didn't leave a impression behind with me, but have looked into N2.2 and from the looks of it things SEEM to be improved in lots of way's. Perhaps time to try it out.

There are several more games with a more open-world/sandbox approach to them but also with those games it's the visuals and in some cases their business model which has very little appeal to me.

Oh and you need to understand one thing and thats NOT all SWG VETS hate or dislike SOE, I don't hate SOE, thought I don't always agree with their business solutions, but trust me it's definitely not SOE alone with whom I might not agree on their business behavior, there are in fact businesses that I am more concerned over then a company that provides entertainment.

The only one thing I disliked and partially hated at the time was SOE changing the game into the NGE while I will always say that from being on their official forums allot, we all could have seen it common due to HOW people reacted on the forums that already left the game short after release, but thats already so many years ago that now and like I said in this post and elsewhere I've actually been back and had fun for 8 months again, why?, because I took the same kind of effort into the game as I did with pre-cu. Every time I didn't do that (put some effort into my play)and try to go back I felt like many disgrunted VETS seem to feel still today. Why not playing today? My playstyle and the time I can devote on my favorite hobby is very limited as I was a full crafter/trader.

Originally posted by gestalt11

Its wierd how people who played EQ1 think it was great and seem to never realized it had a terrible reputation of being extremely nerdy, uncool, and that it sucked yout life away.

 

Same thing with SWG you get all these people who loved the game and completely forget it had a terrible reputation for being extremely grindy and boring. 

 

Blizzard would never have made SWG with Blizard like polish.  The Blizzard Polish process would result in game much less boring and therefore disliked by the people who loved SWG.

That was because EQ actually had tons of things to do. SWG in no way, shape , or form competes with EQ. The sub numbers show it as well.

You cant produce a bunch of content for folks when your game is trying to balance 20 plus classes.

I like how a prior poster indicated if you dont like sandbox play then you have ADHD. What a putz.

It is called not wanting a RL sim. Give me a true EQ2 in the mold of EQ1 anytime.

It would scale back a few things of the original launch of EQ...but it would have content...something a game like SWG would never understand. SWG was more concerned that Uncle Owen could get himself some custom made panties, while putting in his 15 hr day tilling the field. It was a RL sim rather than giving folks stuff to do that most consider "fun".

Things like killing bad guys etc. But some folks insist on paying a fee for a second job...I dont think so.

So I have ADHD cause I dont to play sims....yeah OK. Maybe you are right. But while you are talking about "mental issues", perhaps you would define what it is that makes a person stomp their feet in a tirade about a game for over 3 years now.

If that is what is "mentally healthy"....then I will stick with my ADHD thank ye very much. 

Originally posted by gestalt11

Its wierd how people who played EQ1 think it was great and seem to never realized it had a terrible reputation of being extremely nerdy, uncool, and that it sucked yout life away.

 The community what played made these games great.

Same thing with SWG you get all these people who loved the game and completely forget it had a terrible reputation for being extremely grindy and boring. 

Both games gave the player allot incentive to get to know your fellow player, any idea where that has gone to with current games? What you don't seem to understand that for many players it was not grindy or boring, it was more of a living the live in the Star Wars Galaxy, allot of us didn't depend on quest, of course we took many of them for the credits we earned aswell the fun we had with 20 people groups, but it was more because it was FUN to get together and go hunting and earn some credits then it was to gain a new lvl, keep in mind I am only talking about people who either where in our guild/friends/players I came to know, we could sit in a camp somewhere on a mountain on Dathmore overlooking down below all sorts of creature's telling each other stories of our adventure, or planning our next trip, or what ever. Those who came into the game looking for a GAME often felt the game was boring and grindy in my opinion. Luckely for those looking for just a game where saved by Blizzard as they provided a excelent GAME for millions to enjoy the way they wanted.

Blizzard would never have made SWG with Blizard like polish.  The Blizzard Polish process would result in game much less boring and therefore disliked by the people who loved SWG.

 

Originally posted by gestalt11

Its wierd how people who played EQ1 think it was great and seem to never realized it had a terrible reputation of being extremely nerdy, uncool, and that it sucked yout life away.

 

Same thing with SWG you get all these people who loved the game and completely forget it had a terrible reputation for being extremely grindy and boring. 

 

Blizzard would never have made SWG with Blizard like polish.  The Blizzard Polish process would result in game much less boring and therefore disliked by the people who loved SWG.

So your assertion is that Blizzard Polish doesn't just add good content, fix bugs, and stream line the game mechanics, but that it polishes away the fun from the game? Interesting.

But it would only polish away the fun for the "nerds" and the general public would love the game?

it's funny how "Pre-CU" is now the battle-cry for Sandbox game enthusiasts, when back in the Pre-CU days, SWG was a relative flop both Critically and Financially in comparison to all the other non-sandbox games on the Market(DAoC, EQ, etc.). I remember all the "SWG Sucks hahaha" that was going on back when SWG first came out.  Now all of a sudden SWG was the greatest game on the planet...because SOE killed it. revisionist history ftw.

I bet that roughly half the people crying about "I wish they would bring back Pre-CU" didn't even play SWG at that time.

Here's a suggestion though...

Go Play Ryzom.

Ryzom has all the sandboxy goodness you could ever want. it's a shame that people complain but can't take the time to look beyond Blizzard and SOE to find their games.

if not Ryzom, then play EVE. and get over SWG already. it's been 3 years. It's dead, Jim.

Originally posted by Reklaw

Originally posted by gestalt11

Both games gave the player allot incentive to get to know your fellow player, any idea where that has gone to with current games? What you don't seem to understand that for many players it was not grindy or boring, it was more of a living the live in the Star Wars Galaxy, allot of us didn't depend on quest, of course we took many of them for the credits we earned aswell the fun we had with 20 people groups, but it was more because it was FUN to get together and go hunting and earn some credits then it was to gain a new lvl, keep in mind I am only talking about people who either where in our guild/friends/players I came to know, we could sit in a camp somewhere on a mountain on Dathmore overlooking down below all sorts of creature's telling each other stories of our adventure, or planning our next trip, or what ever. Those who came into the game looking for a GAME often felt the game was boring and grindy in my opinion. Luckely for those looking for just a game where saved by Blizzard as they provided a excelent GAME for millions to enjoy the way they wanted.

 

 

I think you just described a pretty big difference between two key groups of RPG players.  Your group wants world immersion while my group prefers functional character progression.  You want to 'be' while I want to 'do'. 

When I was a kid I loved building model airplanes but once they were finished I lost interest in them since I liked the progress and saw no point in just staring at them and displaying them.

That is the reason why I quit SWG even before CU.  I loved the progress of building up my character and constantly improving and molding him the way I wanted to.  However, once you achieved your masteries, built your house and got your gear sets, there was nothing much to do with that character but stare at it and put it on display. 

I would like to see the PRECioUs re-released minus the Star Wars theme in it.

You thought it bombed hard the first time around?

I would have to think that most folks would not buy it if it was missing the SW shell.

Most certainly not the majority of  folks around here that pine for it daily anyways.

O well it wont ever happen...but would be interesting to see how it would fare one way or the other.

There could be more than 50 or 100k fans that want that playstyle so bad they would subscribe...but I seriously doubt it. IMO it was the SW theme, and the fact it was some folks first MMO that made it special.

Maybe someday they will understand it like other MMO players...you cant ever get back that first game "feel".

Originally posted by Ihmotepp

Originally posted by gestalt11

Its wierd how people who played EQ1 think it was great and seem to never realized it had a terrible reputation of being extremely nerdy, uncool, and that it sucked yout life away.

 

Same thing with SWG you get all these people who loved the game and completely forget it had a terrible reputation for being extremely grindy and boring. 

 

Blizzard would never have made SWG with Blizard like polish.  The Blizzard Polish process would result in game much less boring and therefore disliked by the people who loved SWG.

 

So your assertion is that Blizzard Polish doesn't just add good content, fix bugs, and stream line the game mechanics, but that it polishes away the fun from the game? Interesting.

But it would only polish away the fun for the "nerds" and the general public would love the game?

Only for the immersion/sandbox nerds.  Not every kind of nerd.

The "normal" person aka the general public just aren't that picky about such things.  They HATE inconvience, as far as immersion they just want it to be plausible.

The reverse is true of an immersion nerd.  They HATE immersion inconsistency but will go through what other people consider torturous to get whatever they consider immersion.

All you need to do is look at the stereotypical Star Trek nerd who constantly questions William Shatner about some script inconsistency in episode 23 at some Star Trek Convention.

In the end it is really just about numbers and who is in the majority and to some extent ereveryone is nerdy about something.   But that stereotypical Star Trek nerd is the person that gets made fun off because they have a peculiar (ie. outside the norm) obsession with a certain thing being "correct" and disregard the currently in place norms of letting things slide for the sake of social "grease".

Many of the things immersion nerds want are directly opposed to what other "normal" people will consider fun.  Even worse, since they are nerds and tend to be obesessive, controling, and lack social grace.   They therefore attempt to force the entire system to revolve around their desires and lack any kind of will to compromise.  In fact at the hint of compromise they go into a Rainman like fit.  This puts "normal" people off.  The games associated with these people are considered strange and undesirable like they have a disease. 

Not that the other way around is really any better.  But the reason I am framing it this way is to communicate the derision that many people feel for these games.   These are social games.  They obey social rules.  Worrying about "correctness" = "not being cool".  

The reason WoW has succeeded is only partially about quality.  It is more about the fact that they minmized the pain in the ass portions of EQ combined with a fairly bug free experience.  That is the part where "the general public" dislikes inconvience.  But they also made the game cool and fun and all that.  That is more than just "having things to do", it is also not getting all crazy about things.  About being cool.  This might sound juvenile, but this is really the way all social phenomenon play out.  I am not talking about marketing.  I am talking about not doing ridiculously punishing things for some stupid made up concept ideal like "Risk vs Reward" or "Immersion".

The general public may seem stupid.  They may even justify themselves in ways that are patently stupid.  But they are not as stupid as they seem.  As an atomic sort of "hive-mind" the "General public"  has an extremely sensitive nose for when things are getting out of hand.  And when things do get out of hand the response is derision.  Because the "general public"  wants things to move smoothly and towards social comrpomise and when something as burdensome and subjective as immersion comes in  and gets rigorouslyand arbitrarily enforced they get pissed and puke you out.  And when that happens they get pissed and do various political-style things to marginlize that thing.

The point being that both SWG and EQ had elements that were just out of hand, over the deep end for most normal people.  There are a number of people who like those games and look back with nostalgia and completely gloss over all the negative things that they themselves even complained about.

The hologrind was insane and sucked ass.  To people who played SWG it was a burden to be born, or something bitch about or just some other thing to do.  To people on the outside it is literally alarming, they say to themselve "Oh my, I don't want to be caught dead associating with that kind of insane crap.  That is just plain sick".   As soon outsiders are judging those sorts of game mechanics as "sick" there is a major problem.  This is differentiated from the sick individuals seen in any MMORPG who play to much.  It is when the game itself is viewed this way that it gets socially derided.

Both SWG and EQ had this stigma.  And they had it for a reason.  And most of those are rooted in these "nerdy" narrowly focused things.  I purposely used "nerdy" for a reason.  I didn't even use geek.  I specifically mean that derided type of person who lacks social grace and all that.   And that is the major difference between WoW and EQ1 that "social grace".    As far as design philosophy.  Some people will say its not graceful at all.  Well that is fine.  Socialization can be a dirty business.  But bulling your way past or being blind to social issues is just as dirty and imperfect even if you are convinced you are "in the right".  Which is one of the hallmarks of nerdiness.

Now you might say what about "Revenge of the Nerds"; the nerds became popular in the end.  Well that is far to complex to discuss at this moment and had a lot to do with robots.

Originally posted by gestalt11

Originally posted by Ihmotepp

Originally posted by gestalt11

Its wierd how people who played EQ1 think it was great and seem to never realized it had a terrible reputation of being extremely nerdy, uncool, and that it sucked yout life away.

 

Same thing with SWG you get all these people who loved the game and completely forget it had a terrible reputation for being extremely grindy and boring. 

 

Blizzard would never have made SWG with Blizard like polish.  The Blizzard Polish process would result in game much less boring and therefore disliked by the people who loved SWG.

 

So your assertion is that Blizzard Polish doesn't just add good content, fix bugs, and stream line the game mechanics, but that it polishes away the fun from the game? Interesting.

But it would only polish away the fun for the "nerds" and the general public would love the game?

 

Only for the immersion/sandbox nerds.  Not every kind of nerd.

 

The "normal" person aka the general public just aren't that picky about such things.  They HATE inconvience, as far as immersion they just want it to be plausible.

 

The reverse is true of an immersion nerd.  They HATE immersion inconsistency but will go through what other people consider torturous to get whatever they consider immersion.

 

All you need to do is look at the stereotypical Star Trek nerd who constantly questions William Shatner about some script inconsistency in episode 23 at some Star Trek Convention.

 

In the end it is really just about numbers and who is in the majority and to some extent ereveryone is nerdy about something.   But that stereotypical Star Trek nerd is the person that gets made fun off because they have a peculiar (ie. outside the norm) obsession with a certain thing being "correct" and disregard the currently in place norms of letting things slide for the sake of social "grease".

 

Many of the things immersion nerds want are directly opposed to what other "normal" people will consider fun.  Even worse, since they are nerds and tend to be obesessive, controling, and lack social grace.   They therefore attempt to force the entire system to revolve around their desires and lack any kind of will to compromise.  In fact at the hint of compromise they go into a Rainman like fit.  This puts "normal" people off.  The games associated with these people are considered strange and undesirable like they have a disease. 

 

Not that the other way around is really any better.  But the reason I am framing it this way is to communicate the derision that many people feel for these games.   These are social games.  They obey social rules.  Worrying about "correctness" = "not being cool".  

 

The reason WoW has succeeded is only partially about quality.  It is more about the fact that they minmized the pain in the ass portions of EQ combined with a fairly bug free experience.  That is the part where "the general public" dislikes inconvience.  But they also made the game cool and fun and all that.  That is more than just "having things to do", it is also not getting all crazy about things.  About being cool.  This might sound juvenile, but this is really the way all social phenomenon play out.  I am not talking about marketing.  I am talking about not doing ridiculously punishing things for some stupid made up concept ideal like "Risk vs Reward" or "Immersion".

 

The general public may seem stupid.  They may even justify themselves in ways that are patently stupid.  But they are not as stupid as they seem.  As an atomic sort of "hive-mind" the "General public"  has an extremely sensitive nose for when things are getting out of hand.  And when things do get out of hand the response is derision.  Because the "general public"  wants things to move smoothly and towards social comrpomise and when something as burdensome and subjective as immersion comes in  and gets rigorouslyand arbitrarily enforced they get pissed and puke you out.  And when that happens they get pissed and do various political-style things to marginlize that thing.

 

The point being that both SWG and EQ had elements that were just out of hand, over the deep end for most normal people.  There are a number of people who like those games and look back with nostalgia and completely gloss over all the negative things that they themselves even complained about.

 

The hologrind was insane and sucked ass.  To people who played SWG it was a burden to be born, or something bitch about or just some other thing to do.  To people on the outside it is literally alarming, they say to themselve "Oh my, I don't want to be caught dead associating with that kind of insane crap.  That is just plain sick".   As soon outsiders are judging those sorts of game mechanics as "sick" there is a major problem.  This is differentiated from the sick individuals seen in any MMORPG who play to much.  It is when the game itself is viewed this way that it gets socially derided.

 

Both SWG and EQ had this stigma.  And they had it for a reason.  And most of those are rooted in these "nerdy" narrowly focused things.  I purposely used "nerdy" for a reason.  I didn't even use geek.  I specifically mean that derided type of person who lacks social grace and all that.   And that is the major difference between WoW and EQ1 that "social grace".    As far as design philosophy.  Some people will say its not graceful at all.  Well that is fine.  Socialization can be a dirty business.  But bulling your way past or being blind to social issues is just as dirty and imperfect even if you are convinced you are "in the right".  Which is one of the hallmarks of nerdiness.

 

Now you might say what about "Revenge of the Nerds"; the nerds became popular in the end.  Well that is far to complex to discuss at this moment and had a lot to do with robots.

 

The only things SWG and EQ really shared though were they both had time sinks.

EQ was about killing mobs...SWG about being Uncle Owen.

It is misleading to use them in the same context.

WoW is basically EQ-lite done right as you indicated.

They are both linear games based on utilizing content laden material.

Unlike sandboxes(this reads PRECioUs)...where a person is expected to come up with their own content in a simulated world.

They are nothing alike, and I never see the sandbox replacing linear games as the most popular format.

And although I like a little more to my games ala EQ, there is no way I care to ever pay to sim a life online.

I would imagine it is the same for others that enjoy directed content.

Originally posted by gestalt11

So all you Pre-CU people:

 

Why aren't you playing Ryzom or Neocron?  Maybe if the people who pined for the fjords of Pre-Cu put their money where their mouth is and support games done in a similar vein then people will take you seriously.

 

Rather than creating thread #11898383 about how SOE is evil because they released some games on steam.

 

Frankly I just don't beliueve half the Pre-CU lovers.  I think that they are purely the victim of nostalgia, because they don't seem to act consistently.

Nostalgia is most certainly part of it, but there are tangible aspects to pre-cu swg that are not available in any other game.  However, many of us who wish we could go back to pre-cu still left the game (in many cases for wow) because of the simple fact that a sandbox by itself is not enough to keep someone entertained for much longer then a year or two; just as wow (a game that goes for pure action and forgets the sandbox and many other mmo concepts) cannot keep someone entertained for more then a year or two.  It is through the mixture of these two gametypes, a hybrid if you will, that the next generation of mmos will be born.

I really didn't mean the thread to go this direction. I suppose it would have made it easier to list the things I really think are great about SWG pre CU and then wonder why there aren't any games doing these things.

Let me start out by saying that the greatness that was SWG was not the combat. It was pretty standard MMO combat at that. The good thing about SWG was the community it encouraged and the freedom you had to change the world with your character.

Allow me to amend my question:

Why is it that most games find it necessary to make you feel "special" when you create your character? You were not the "chosen one" who will change the fate of the galaxy when you made your pre CU toon. You were an average guy or gal, which is what you would stay unless you did something to make yourself remarkable.

Why do no current games allow you to change your career or hold multiple careers at once? Yes, I am aware that Mortal Online, Fallen Earth, and Earthrise are skill based games in development, and that Eve currently allows skill training. It is yet to be determined whether or not there will be a respec ability in any MMO in development, and I cannot bear to play Eve because I hate the you-are-the-spaceship feel, so that one doesn't count for me.

Why do current games have inferior player housing? SWG was my first MMO, and I was sorely disappointed when I played other games to find out that you cannot display an item in your house unless it is a "furniture" item. I couldn’t understand why I couldn't build an igloo in the middle of the Everfrost zone in EQ2 to live in (well aside from the zone being too tiny and cramped). I know of no games in development with extensive plans for player housing, player cities, and local economies in the way they were implemented in SWG pre CU.

Why do many current games have plastic looking inexpressive avatars? Rant warning! I find it disgusting that most live games have characters that have in no way improved upon the customization options that were available in 2003. I know some people will fight me on this one until the end, but I honestly believe that we should be deciding our character's eyelash length by now. **cue the uncreative anti-customization guys yelling about covering it up with armor anyway so who cares** Well I for one care. I do not mean to be hostile, but I do not go about telling those who love combat that combat doesn't matter and that they should take out their tarnished blood-soaked daggers and sit upon them. Combat has its place. Customizing your character down to toenail shape and forehead height has its own place too, and it's something I enjoy. End rant.

While I admit this has less to do with Pre-CU than other issues in this post, in 2003 SWG was at the very least headed down the right road. This issue is not dependent upon the number of sliders available to customize a character's appearance, but rather on believability and a reaction of sympathy towards the characters' appearance. They do not have to be photographically perfect, but they should come closer to touching our souls. The renditions seen in more recent MMORPG games are more likely to turn our stomachs.

Why has crafting become a sideline? I know people whose entire reason for playing SWG was to be the best armor smith or cook or clothing designer in the game. In asking this question I am not pressing for players to have to choose between a "real" profession and a crafter's life. What I do wonder is why designers have either made crafting a hobo-dinner style sideline where you throw in components, shake up your bag, and dump out a finished breastplate, or they inflict an unnecessarily complex mini game that is more like solving math equations or mashing buttons to moderate random “complications” within the process to make it seem like it was more of a challenge to make? The real disappointment in these games comes when you realize that crafting is nothing more than an expensive hobby, and people who mine raw resources will make more money selling them to crafters than the crafters will make selling the finished item. The item made by the crafter will not differ in even the smallest detail from the item made by his competition, making the incentive to craft even smaller. (I have read a little bit about Earthrise, which advertises a player driven economy, but doesn’t state whether two items made with the same schematic can differ.)

Why are there no longer social professions? Why is there so little interdependency among classes? This is one of the things which made SWG stand out. There was an entire career based upon changing a friend’s customization features. There were musician and dancing careers that were useful to those who focused on combat. Doctor’s had to eat food made by cooks to give maximum enhancements to other players. Tailors had to use Bio-engineer tissues to make clothing with scouting benefits. Having to rely on other players made the community stick together instead of becoming self-sufficient nose-to-the-quest-journal soloists. (This does not mean you could not fight things on your own. You could!) One awful thing about post 2004 communities in MMOs is that everybody is playing a single player game with other people. Forced grouping is not the answer, because people will group, kill mob X, and never speak to one another. We need another game to tear the treasure map into bits and give everybody one “bit”. Unless they work together, nobody is going to get ahead.
 

Gestalt...

I dont know if you copied that post from someone, but it was pretty damn good. Nice read

I have a little bit of a nerdy side....as I was a EQ player from 01, and a Star Wars fan since the 70s. However I thought it was a bit extreme in some ways. WoW is too toned down for my taste though....could use a little more to it from what I read about it. Probably a game somewhere between WOW and oldschool EQ...but closer to the EQ side.

Hit the vet crowd on thie head though IMO. Very apt description.

If Stradden is unwilling to have them stop with the pestering over their gamestyle, then I suppose he should seperate all of the forums like the SWG ones. Makes it irritating to post around here, thus it seems like you are caught up making remarks back to folks.

Pretty petty...but way it is lately. These forums should be better than this, as they are supposed to cover a number of games.

Give both kinds of players a place to discuss, without all the hard feelings going on. Arguing seems to be all this site is about anymore....and moreso since the Bioware game was announced.

Originally posted by gestalt11

 

The hologrind was insane and sucked ass.  To people who played SWG it was a burden to be born, or something bitch about or just some other thing to do.  To people on the outside it is literally alarming, they say to themselve "Oh my, I don't want to be caught dead associating with that kind of insane crap.  That is just plain sick".   As soon outsiders are judging those sorts of game mechanics as "sick" there is a major problem.  This is differentiated from the sick individuals seen in any MMORPG who play to much.  It is when the game itself is viewed this way that it gets socially derided.

Amusingly enough, the people that holo-ground, and the people that the hologrind was intended to placate, were the so-called normal people that just wanted something 'fun' and 'cool.'  These people decided they couldn't have fun if they weren't playing a Jedi, no matter the other avenues in game available to them, and so they chose to engage in the hologrind and made the game about the hologrind.

The immersion nerds that you go to great links to deride actually wanted no part of it, as to truly be immersed in Star Wars during the time period in which the game was set, there should have been no Jedi at all, not thousands of them whacking on quenkers or dancing in cantinas to master the entire profession tree.

Ultimately, Galaxies was an experimental game, a game that Raph Koster knew had some very radical and likely unpopular gameplay ideas that he wanted to try out, and he was lucky enough to persuade Sony and LucasArts to let him use the Star Wars brand to bring those ideas to market.  Without a built-in audience like anything with the Star Wars name on it has by default, the pre-NGE game would never have seen the light of day.

SWG, conceptually, was a game for roleplayers and for people who wanted an alternative to the directed content model.  Sure this is a minority, and anyone who read up on the game prior to playing it would have known as much,  but the majority swooped in anyway and forced the game to be about Jedi when it was never intended to be.   No one forced players to do the ass-sucking grind but the players themselves.  The game was never intended to be about that.

Originally posted by gestalt11

So all you Pre-CU people:

 

Why aren't you playing Ryzom or Neocron?  Maybe if the people who pined for the fjords of Pre-Cu put their money where their mouth is and support games done in a similar vein then people will take you seriously.

 

Rather than creating thread #11898383 about how SOE is evil because they released some games on steam.

 

Frankly I just don't beliueve half the Pre-CU lovers.  I think that they are purely the victim of nostalgia, because they don't seem to act consistently.

Not playing Ryzom cause noone PVPs there , from what I was told " You make dates for PVP...." and I was like wtf!? So .... I played for a while liked the game mechanics and the game world and the noob island and skills as well, just the community was too soft for my tastes.

Originally posted by firefly2003

Originally posted by gestalt11

So all you Pre-CU people:

 

Why aren't you playing Ryzom or Neocron?  Maybe if the people who pined for the fjords of Pre-Cu put their money where their mouth is and support games done in a similar vein then people will take you seriously.

 

Rather than creating thread #11898383 about how SOE is evil because they released some games on steam.

 

Frankly I just don't beliueve half the Pre-CU lovers.  I think that they are purely the victim of nostalgia, because they don't seem to act consistently.

Not playing Ryzom cause noone PVPs there , from what I was told " You make dates for PVP...." and I was like wtf!? So .... I played for a while liked the game mechanics and the game world and the noob island and skills as well, just the community was too soft for my tastes.

Then why dont you get several like minded friends to go into that game with ya?

It seems the community was all you didnt like in Ryzom by the content in your post. With 10 or 20 of ya having the same taste in games, I dont see why you all couldnt have fun as well. That is if your friends feel the same way about the gameplay of Ryzom.

Perhaps you could get some "vets" into it with ya if nothing else. Give you guys something to do...and also help a sandbox game out. Because if the present ones are sinking, it sure doesnt encourage companies to invest in new sandboxes.

If I was wanting sandbox games to be made more often, this is the thought process I would be using atm. I sure wouldnt be spending my time going over spilled milk, nor trying to impose my gaming style on others that want nothing to do with it to begin with. Instead I would show that my gaming style is worth investing in to companies, and have the numbers to prove it.

Food for thought.

This has been done to death about a million times,

give it a rest.

Originally posted by Joliust

 

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Originally posted by Souvec

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Originally posted by rikilii

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Originally posted by Death1942

 

if you do a quick google search using certain words you can quite easily find an almost carbon copy of the game being made.  We arent allowed to discuss it here though.

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Why would you not be allowed to discuss an MMO on and MMO site?

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Because of "legal" issues surrounding that particular MMO in development....

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I don't think it will ever see the light of day. Who knows, maybe it will be finished but who is gonna pony up to $ for those server clusters.

actually it went open source and is going along at crazy pace and (unlike a certian game) i can actually play the damn thing and test it out (and its a lot of fun).  Also there are plenty of private servers for everygame.  Stick a few ads here and there and bam, your making money.

It would never get popular without a new engine. Im not talking about graphics quality, but its limits and bugs. There is no true Z axis in SWG and line of sight issues cant be solved. Devs stated this already.

For example when people asked for atmospheric flight, they were told that objects dont have a top in SWG. So if a 1ft rock will block your speeder on the ground, itll also block your vehicle 100ft up in the air.

Even if you took the preCU skillsystem, lost the lvlsystem and slapped current content on top of it, I dont expect it to be more popular then Anarchy Online for example. Not that that really matters if you are having fun in the game

Originally posted by gestalt11

So all you Pre-CU people:

 

Why aren't you playing Ryzom or Neocron?  Maybe if the people who pined for the fjords of Pre-Cu put their money where their mouth is and support games done in a similar vein then people will take you seriously.

 

Rather than creating thread #11898383 about how SOE is evil because they released some games on steam.

 

Frankly I just don't beliueve half the Pre-CU lovers.  I think that they are purely the victim of nostalgia, because they don't seem to act consistently.

I've tried both of those games. Honestly they were both utter crap and had very little in common with the pre-CU game. I'm not going to spend money on a subpar game just to say I'm supporting a sandbox.

There are lots of reasons why games similar to Pre-CU have gotten little to no attention, and only a small handfull of developers have or are even trying.  SWG was a very risky game when it launched, but it had a very solid anchor, the license.  They could afford to take the risk and bank on the name to bring the masses in.

Clearly in SOE's eyes, the game was not meeting expectation and was altered.

SWG was risky in design, and scope, the challange, the learning curve, and many other areas, but it had the license, and that's what makes all these other games different.  They don't have an established worldwide fanbase for their lore and canon, so they have to sell the game by the gameplay itself, which is difficult especially when  people are not comforted by the freedom of choice.

Originally posted by Da1e

This has been done to death about a million times,

 

give it a rest.

whot? A million times, you say?

Well then there must be a HUGE market for this type of game, why isn't there a developer willing to make something like it?

Originally posted by someforumguy

It would never get popular without a new engine. Im not talking about graphics quality, but its limits and bugs. There is no true Z axis in SWG and line of sight issues cant be solved. Devs stated this already.

For example when people asked for atmospheric flight, they were told that objects dont have a top in SWG. So if a 1ft rock will block your speeder on the ground, itll also block your vehicle 100ft up in the air.

Even if you took the preCU skillsystem, lost the lvlsystem and slapped current content on top of it, I dont expect it to be more popular then Anarchy Online for example. Not that that really matters if you are having fun in the game

I am all for adding a Z axis to every game.  Jumping, flying, and swimming underwater FTW!!

Originally posted by ketrine

Originally posted by Da1e

This has been done to death about a million times,

 

give it a rest.

 

whot? A million times, you say?

Well then there must be a HUGE market for this type of game, why isn't there a developer willing to make something like it?

Um perhaps cause it is the same small group of folks that keep repeating the topic?

Nah that couldnt be it? Could it?

Nope...now that I think of it, I am sure that is why.

The sandbox crowd is gonna have to accept its numbers dont warrant a major investment. Companies see the results of SWG, and its huge budget, and have to be thinking "Frack that" IMO.

So rather than keep demanding you get the same A+ IPs as directed content, it seems like you guys would put your heads together, and campaign for some B grade IP instead to make your virtual world out of.

But that is the problem...the SW IP spoiled ya.

You want your cake, and to eat it too. This is read not only is having your game features enough...they have to be on the best IP around as well. Wake up already.

If this wasnt true IMO, then you guys would be supporting other sandbox games currently available. Alas though, it doesnt appear any of them are "good enough" for you guys. They arent the "PRECioUs", thus you dont wanna play.

Reminds me of a saying about beggars....

BTW...Lord help ya guys if investors ever catch wind of the more "animated" sandbox fans around here. I see no way in Hades you guys will ever get a game made then. I know I sure wouldnt wanna be attracting these folks as customers. Knowing up front if you make them mad, in any way, then they are going to haunt your company. Perhaps for years to come ala SOE.