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Ascension08
8.jpg) Novice Member
Joined: 3/12/08
"Silence is golden, duct tape is silver, but the White Border of Darkfall rules over all!" |
1/19/09 7:44:42 AM#21
Originally posted by Guillermo197
YUP! - They can't fix the boring Open RvR! - They can't fix the continious Fortress server / zone crashes! - They can't fix the boring endgame!
So yeah... they need to do something to keep people subscribed. 1.1.1 introduces "Subliminal Zone Control", sort of, where if you actually hold all of the BOs and Keeps then you can lock the zone, not determined only by spamming Scenarios or doing PQs anymore to tip that scale. Though until they really make Zone Control and actual player kills more valuable, I'm not sure how much that'll help. It's in addition to the existing Control system, not a replacement of it though. There's only been a few Fort crashes on Dark Crag I believe, we just stormed two on Azazel and went like butter...new arguments please. Boring endgame? Well, that's a matter of opinion. If you don't play sports I don't imagine you can understand how nice it is to "win" after fighting for so long, so, if you only play for the uber gearz, that's fine. You're going to get bored. -------------------------------------- Order of the White Border. |
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1/19/09 7:54:05 AM#22
After reading all these whiney posts I am very confused..Is this a Game forum or a nursery full of newborn babies. Lots of crying going on...The problem with all these MMO's are the people playing it and not the game itself.. The same people who don't take the time to enjoy a game, to explore, to goof off, to play another game, to have a life outside of 23 hours of MMO's...This game is no different than any other mmo's end game..The problem is people gun for the end game several months after release and miss out on alot . I don't feel any pity for you because you chose to run as fast as you could to the end game..All I can say to you is if you don't like the end game or other things about WAR there is always much worse MMO's (WOW) (lol) waiting for you. "The game is only as good as the person playing it...." |
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1/19/09 8:02:23 AM#23
Originally posted by Zodan
You must be smoking the Devil's lettuce or not know what 'real' PvP/RvR is about. I was in CB for over a year before OB and rolled almost every class to 40+. In retail I pushed myself and had several classes 40/40RR (even though RR has nothing to do with skill) and was in the 2nd overall guild on Dark Crag before we disbanned. I was 1 or 19 players chosen to participate in the Core Tester Program where we worked first hand with the Devs. You can see I have a good bit of history invested in Mythic, and thats not even touching on how long I played DAoC. The end game in WAR is so incomplete and unenjoyable that after almost 2 years of playing I canceled my sub with Mythic and uninstalled the game. If you think fighting NPCs in instances for loot is the quality RvR engame that we have all been waiting for you're sadly mistaken. You should probably play DAoC to get an idea why so many loyal fans of Mythic are upset. |
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1/19/09 8:05:07 AM#24
Just wanted to add that if you think bringing in a new class (as cool as the Slayers are) is going to breath new life into the game you're mistaken. |
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1/19/09 8:09:54 AM#25
Well Ill admit. I can hardly log on to the game. So when i saw the title Borehammer I have to agree. The game really is fun with a good bunch of friends.
In all the time iv played this game i can think of 2 times i really loved my time playing. Call it wht you want. Thats not a good sign.
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1/19/09 8:14:10 AM#26
Mythic has just took too literally the "Massive Multyplayer" definition of MMORPG, and ignored the RPG bit.
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1/19/09 8:26:27 AM#27
Originally posted by Ascension08 1.1.1 introduces "Subliminal Zone Control", sort of, where if you actually hold all of the BOs and Keeps then you can lock the zone, not determined only by spamming Scenarios or doing PQs anymore to tip that scale. Though until they really make Zone Control and actual player kills more valuable, I'm not sure how much that'll help. It's in addition to the existing Control system, not a replacement of it though. There's only been a few Fort crashes on Dark Crag I believe, we just stormed two on Azazel and went like butter...new arguments please. Boring endgame? Well, that's a matter of opinion. If you don't play sports I don't imagine you can understand how nice it is to "win" after fighting for so long, so, if you only play for the uber gearz, that's fine. You're going to get bored.
Just have a look at WHA in the European Server forums (like Burlok (was server I was playing on)) and see for yourself. Servers are still crashing almost daily (at least the Fortress Zones). Cheers |
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1/19/09 8:30:44 AM#28
Originally posted by Yamota
I really wish I could put my finger on what exactly is boring about this game, but frankly, it's just boring. I've been there and done that with everything in other games, so why would I want to do the same stuff in this one? Maybe you can sit around and do nothing but PVP all day, but I would like some variety to activities in my MMO. It's got to be something more than continuous scenarios. For Christ sake, I could play Counter Strike for free and get exactly the same thing with better graphics and where my personal skill was a better determinant of the outcome. Endgame is what makes an MMO an MMO. To say that a game falls flat at the end game is basically admitting that the game isn't worth playing. What's the point of leveling then? If the whole system just feeds back onto itself with continuous PVP, then why not make a game that just did away with quests altogether and focused exclusively on PVP? Trouble is, there's really nothing rewarding about the PVP. Even if your side takes the other side's city, the rewards and punishments for victory or defeat are really quite slim. And all of this is made worse by the fact that on most servers, one side usually dominates over the other one. I see no difference between grinding scenarios and grinding mobs. You're just doing the same thing over and over again. |
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1/19/09 8:40:35 AM#29
Originally posted by woody1974 I see. A whiney post to you is someone who points out problems with a game and complains a little bit? Sorry, I don't buy it. People have a right to give their personal feelings and impressions about a game. That you would blame the "people" who play these games speaks volumes about your own position. You think they YOUR opinion is the only one that matters, but rather then coming out and making an argument (which you probably lack) you're going to issue a blanket insult and hope it works. Nope. Nice try though. Maybe you should re-read this thread. No one is talking about playing an MMO for 23 hours a day or not taking the time to enjoy a game. And really, what exactly shall we take the time to enjoy in Warhammer? You fanboys give contradictory information here. Is Warhammer all about the PVP or isn't it? You've got some people talking about how awesome it is to grind out scenarios all day, and then we inevitably get people like you who assume that the game is fun if only you can find that magic number of hours to play it. Warhammer isn't better than WoW no matter how much you want to try and make fun of it. Blizzard is laughing all the way to the bank while their own subscriptions continue to rise and Warhammer's stagnate and fall. So again, I'll ask: What exactly should I take the time to enjoy in Warhammer? The witty conversations between my predictably named scenario mates that remind me of the Barrens in WoW? How about the pathetic crafting system? The same drab quests one finds in every other MMO out there? Oh I know! I should make several alts and divide my time amongst all of them so I never reach the terrible end game!
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1/19/09 8:55:42 AM#30
Originally posted by Zodan
Perhaps you could explain why anyone would want to suffer through 39 levels of awful to get to to "start playing the actual game?" Dont you think there is a flaw in the logic there? Why for instance didnt they make the whole game worthwhile? Somehow I wouldnt feel comfortable promoting a game where my sales pitch is "Stick with it mate. Its only the first 39 levels that suck."
Ridiculous.
Critical thinking is a desire to seek, patience to doubt, fondness to meditate, slowness to assert, readiness to consider, carefulness to dispose and set in order; and hatred for every kind of imposture. |
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Rydran
 Novice Member
Joined: 2/25/08
Rydran aka Cyber-1 aka Nergal aka Psyclon |
1/19/09 8:58:08 AM#31
Thats the same problem that every other moron has given (MMO's are only good for end game). Bullshit! Games like WOW have ruined the idea of playing the game to play the game not to make it a full time job that you have to log on and get 20 other window lickers ( I am sick and tired of people thinking thats all there is to MMO's. The story line of the quests, the fun of getting from zone to zone, and the ablity to war against good or evil (your choice) is the point of these games. In UO you had no end game. Just mobs that were almost impossible to take without a plan or PvP. That was it. This whole raiding concept can be fun (in small doses). You are not uber because you followed some other guys strat on how to beat a boss or because you can do it over and over without party wipe. Congratz jackass!
<a href="http://www.enjin.com/" alt="swtor guild hosting"><img src="http://sigs.enjin.com/sig-swtor/078143aeee5205ec.png"></a> |
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1/19/09 9:02:44 AM#32
Originally posted by Rydran
The point of these games should be to have fun. And I don't personally believe Warhammer meets that criteria. Some previous MMOs didn't even have a leveling system or a quest based story line. One of my biggest complaints about the trend of MMOs is that we have to have something called "end game" at all, rather then simply a game that allowed someone to advance and become "better" without a leveling system, such as the skill box system one found in the pre-NGE Star Wars Galaxies. |
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Ascension08
Novice Member
Joined: 3/12/08
"Silence is golden, duct tape is silver, but the White Border of Darkfall rules over all!" |
1/19/09 9:02:58 AM#33
I'd have to say the only legitimate concern is that there needs to be "more to do" in the game, or what's there needs to be better implemented, is the only one I can agree on. But I think that's partly Mythic's design choice. I've heard someone say, "You do the same things at level 1 that you do at level 40, except later on it's on a bigger scale. How boring!" Well, those same people would be the ones saying, "Why do they make RvR level 40 only? If the real game starts at the end, why'd I waste my time leveling?" if Mythic had designed WAR more like WoW, level restriction-wise. There's always a variety of things to do in WAR but because you can do them right from the start, they tend to get boring. While it goes against the design philosophy, I think they do need a mix of more mid to high-level only things, such as dungeons but also maybe something unique so that you have something to look forward to. Edit: Please don't mistake what I said for adding in raid dungeons to grind in all day. While I know that's fun for some people, for the majority, it's not. PvE needs a little boost in WAR but not an overdose. I'd say maybe 3 more raids would be suitable, that is, level 40-only raids. Fortunately there isn't as much of a gear dependency as in WoW so it wouldn't be as much of a problem, but it'd still be something to do, especially for the PvErs. As long as when the time came to fight and push the zone, they showed up, I think it'd be better.
-------------------------------------- Order of the White Border. |
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Ascension08
Novice Member
Joined: 3/12/08
"Silence is golden, duct tape is silver, but the White Border of Darkfall rules over all!" |
1/19/09 9:03:53 AM#34
Originally posted by Daedalus732
The point of these games should be to have fun. And I don't personally believe Warhammer meets that criteria. Some previous MMOs didn't even have a leveling system or a quest based story line. One of my biggest complaints about the trend of MMOs is that we have to have something called "end game" at all, rather then simply a game that allowed someone to advance and become "better" without a leveling system, such as the skill box system one found in the pre-NGE Star Wars Galaxies. Oh, no wonder why. You actually tried WAR and you like sandboxes? What a mistake. Everyone knew WAR would be similar to WoW and you still tried it. I'm sorry, you just set yourself up for disappointment mate. -------------------------------------- Order of the White Border. |
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1/19/09 9:06:42 AM#35
Originally posted by Ascension08
That's a pretty big legitimate concern for an MMO, or for any game, really. If that's Mythic's design choice, then whatever. It's costing them subscriptions. Why would I want to play a game where there just isn't that much to do? |
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1/19/09 9:09:33 AM#36
Originally posted by Ascension08
I'm capable of liking different games for different reasons. I had no allusions about Warhammer's basic design, but you can still have plenty of content and different acitivites for people in a level based game. Something that Warhammer utterly lacks.
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Ascension08
Novice Member
Joined: 3/12/08
"Silence is golden, duct tape is silver, but the White Border of Darkfall rules over all!" |
1/19/09 9:11:57 AM#37
Originally posted by Daedalus732
That's a pretty big legitimate concern for an MMO, or for any game, really. If that's Mythic's design choice, then whatever. It's costing them subscriptions. Why would I want to play a game where there just isn't that much to do? There is alot to do, it's just you do them so much that it gives the illusion that there isn't. For example, you have Tome Unlocks (particularly Lore unlocks, which are a b*tch to find), Scenarios, oRvR (nothing going on? Start something!), PvE of course, PQs, crafting (which does need to be worked on a bit In a sandbox, there isn't that much to do either, and you'd think the same thing would happen to those as WAR. The difference is the "freedom" aspect of it. Since there aren't any levels, you aren't forced to do something just because you think you have to level. In WAR you still have choice but there are different things affecting those choices (like trying to level for example). In a sandbox, anything that would affect your choices are a result of you or other peoples' actions, which gives it a great sense of freedom (like whether or not you kill that one guy because there could be consequences later on). At least, that's how I understand it. I'm relatively new to the genre (WoW carebear so to speak?) but I've learned from all these disgruntled vets around here. The sandbox idea is definetely enticing and I can understand all the frustration because it's not really dominant anymore. -------------------------------------- Order of the White Border. |
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1/19/09 9:14:07 AM#38
Originally posted by Rydran
You are absolutely right! But as we all know, Mark Jacobs is completely obsessed with World of Warcraft. So we all could have known that Warhammer Online would turn out to be another gear grind game. And that is exactly what it turned out to be. Even tho we had a splinter of hope to see some of the great things of DAoC back in WAR. Unfortunately this was not the case. Cheers |
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Ascension08
Novice Member
Joined: 3/12/08
"Silence is golden, duct tape is silver, but the White Border of Darkfall rules over all!" |
1/19/09 9:14:57 AM#39
Originally posted by Daedalus732
I'm capable of liking different games for different reasons. I had no allusions about Warhammer's basic design, but you can still have plenty of content and different acitivites for people in a level based game. Something that Warhammer utterly lacks.
Particularly non-combat things, which unfortunately are not really part of WAR's scope. I understand what you mean, believe me. WAR is very much a game and not a world...that's the best summary I can think of. -------------------------------------- Order of the White Border. |
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1/19/09 9:45:32 AM#40
Ahh friend.... If Warhammer life was only this simple, lol. 1) Kind of tough to get into a decent organized guild when plenty of the decent organized guilds are quitting the game, not logging on much anymore and rerolling alts for the nth time cause engame is thumb twiddling time. You need to check around more and you'll see this case is becoming more the rule than the exception. People are not happy post 40 right now, and Mark's failure to communicate directly is driving them insane. Scooby-Doo "Mystery kits" to a third party website to spread around rumors you MAY be releasing a class for you is not really what people are looking for. 2) Plenty of the people who are past R40/RR40-50 are the ones doing the loudest yellling, hence the reroll trains. Mythic's release of the Slayer within 3 months is to give them an appetizer to snack on while they try and recode the fort crashes properly. They have to keep the subscription money coming in during this phase to get those fixed, so there is a mad rush right now to get Slayers into the game. I bet this actually is the #1 priority (or should be) at Mythic from a business standpoint.... keep people here somehow, get those two new classes in the game so people stick around. From the looks of things, if Mythic continues to dilly around they won't have to worry about prioritizing fort siege crashes anymore. The population will continue to drop and they'll never again have too many people in one area causing the crashing problem. |
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) together to spend another 4hrs farming the same instance for a small cahnce you might get your brightly colored neon pink and blue gear of uber god like power.
you win a cookie! Farming the same mobs for gear doesn't make you elite, its makes you sheep following a heard.
) and just messing around. The best is to do a mix of these things of course. 
