Hi there,

I reactivated my account after some time, wanted to play my lvl50 Monk (Disciple priest ;) ) a bit.

My first instances were Sunken Temple and Scholo and I could swear, I had them a bit different in mind.
After some invitations to six of the Burning Crusade dungeons (please don´t ask for the english names... from Hellfire isle to the desert south of Shattrath) it was apparent, that the complete game was made a bit easier. I read about WotlK dungeons, so I thought it did only affect the new ones.

Every MoB group just was AoE´d down without any crowd control.
In a threesome we made the first dungeon on hellfire at level 64, 62, 61 (I am not a twink).

In most of my groups I had deathknights - they seem to be unavoidable.

So is it just the DKs or so overpowered / IMBAlanced or were at the same time the dungeons a bit eased?

I mean I was a fan of Stratholme/undead as the Queen of good´ol 5man instances. But there are no groups for it, or many people favourize lvl80 support, or they stick to TBC contect too fast because of better "itamz".

Originally posted by Herodes

So is it just the DKs or so overpowered / IMBAlanced or were at the same time the dungeons a bit eased?

Both, and also the dungeon mechanics were changed quite a bit to reduce the need for CC (since it was getting WAY out of hand with dungeons like Magister's Terrace) and increase the speed at which dungeons could be cleared. AoE is now the way to go.

hmm...but these Burning Crusade dungeons were already very short before.

Gathering from a friends list took as fast as completing the Manatomb (if translated correctly).

Dungeons are shorter and to me that's more fun.

BRD: was just too big and no one seemed ever to be on the same quest line.

For longer PVE sessions, we do the Raids now, but they can be broken down into daily sessions.

A pity you missed Karazahn, perhaps redo the content with some 80's. But the best thing in WotLK is the open world. Start with the Fjords and then do Grizzly. Awesome. And yes the dungeons in WotLK are even shorter than TBC. Some last about 25 minutes.

The same time as "Friends" or "According to Jim". Perfect for our hectic times.

I did Scarlet Monestary on my lv39 Shaman, with a lv44 hunter. I didn't have to heal him or his pet at all. I just sat there. Cathedral was cake. They nerfed the difficulty of all pre-TBC instances. Probably to accomodate to the accelerated leveling scheme they implemented.

Originally posted by argos5

I did Scarlet Monestary on my lv39 Shaman, with a lv44 hunter. I didn't have to heal him or his pet at all. I just sat there. Cathedral was cake. They nerfed the difficulty of all pre-TBC instances. Probably to accomodate to the accelerated leveling scheme they implemented.

SM is for 33 to 37 I think, so your hunter was almost 10 levels above the mobs. But indeed the difficulty is about 25% less now to allow groups such a yours to experience the content with a group of 3.

But don't expect any drops for these level 40+'s.

Originally posted by Herodes

Hi there,

I reactivated my account after some time, wanted to play my lvl50 Monk (Disciple priest ;) ) a bit.

My first instances were Sunken Temple and Scholo and I could swear, I had them a bit different in mind.
After some invitations to six of the Burning Crusade dungeons (please don´t ask for the english names... from Hellfire isle to the desert south of Shattrath) it was apparent, that the complete game was made a bit easier. I read about WotlK dungeons, so I thought it did only affect the new ones.

Every MoB group just was AoE´d down without any crowd control.
In a threesome we made the first dungeon on hellfire at level 64, 62, 61 (I am not a twink).

In most of my groups I had deathknights - they seem to be unavoidable.

So is it just the DKs or so overpowered / IMBAlanced or were at the same time the dungeons a bit eased?

I mean I was a fan of Stratholme/undead as the Queen of good´ol 5man instances. But there are no groups for it, or many people favourize lvl80 support, or they stick to TBC contect too fast because of better "itamz".

DK's are mad overpowered in BC content.

Originally posted by bodypass

Dungeons are shorter and to me that's more fun.

This makes me sick, the best part of WoWs dungeons were the length and the need for CC and team work.

If you had a shitty tank, shitty healer or newb Dps that couldnt follow kill order the dungeon wasn't worth running.

Now everyone wants dungeons to be fast so they could get to the loot it makes me freaking sick.

the Dungeon crawl was great in WoW, it let the best role in WoW shine (tanking). WoW had the best tanking out of all the MMOs in the last 5 years. now they've been gutted and made the same to run simple dungeons.

Tanks don't even need to tab target and build ample threat on adds anymore since every tank gets OP aoe tank abilities.

The tanking and dungeon changes were the biggest blow to me when trying out WotLK.

What a shame.

Edit: I find it funny that you complain about BRD, I would die for a massive 5 man dungeon like BRD in Northrend or Outland. that dungeon is classic you could go thier with ur friends and spen the whole day just doing everything.  I only hope blizzard revisits the old dungeons and makes them Heroic mode.

Originally posted by Herodes

Hi there,

I reactivated my account after some time, wanted to play my lvl50 Monk (Disciple priest ;) ) a bit.

My first instances were Sunken Temple and Scholo and I could swear, I had them a bit different in mind.
After some invitations to six of the Burning Crusade dungeons (please don´t ask for the english names... from Hellfire isle to the desert south of Shattrath) it was apparent, that the complete game was made a bit easier. I read about WotlK dungeons, so I thought it did only affect the new ones.

Every MoB group just was AoE´d down without any crowd control.
In a threesome we made the first dungeon on hellfire at level 64, 62, 61 (I am not a twink).

In most of my groups I had deathknights - they seem to be unavoidable.

So is it just the DKs or so overpowered / IMBAlanced or were at the same time the dungeons a bit eased?

I mean I was a fan of Stratholme/undead as the Queen of good´ol 5man instances. But there are no groups for it, or many people favourize lvl80 support, or they stick to TBC contect too fast because of better "itamz".
 

Im sure many know me as a WoW fanboy, but I have to agree WOTLK, or rather the class changes in WOTLK has made dungeons to easy, all dungeons can be AOE'd.. there is no need for CC or any real strategy like in classic WoW... I have to say WoW has become too casual for me.. to easy... blizzard did a great job in terms of content and design in WOTLK not faulting that one bit, but they also made it too damn easy in dungeons and raids.

Blizzard often say "we want all to experience end game"... they have done that by just making it easier... wrong move in my book.

I have taken a holiday from WoW as 2009 will be a huge RTS year, DOW2,SC2,COH (expansion).

*EDIT*

Yes as said for me BRD and UBRS were the best dungeons WoW offered and ZG the best raid.. diffculty was about right and rewards fruitful.

Originally posted by coffee

 

Im sure many know me as a WoW fanboy, but I have to agree WOTLK, or rather the class changes in WOTLK has made dungeons to easy, all dungeons can be AOE'd.. there is no need for CC or any real strategy like in classic WoW... I have to say WoW has become too casual for me.. to easy... blizzard did a great job in terms of content and design in WOTLK not faulting that one bit, but they also made it too damn easy in dungeons and raids.

Blizzard often say "we want all to experience end game"... they have done that by just making it easier... wrong move in my book.

I have taken a holiday from WoW as 2009 will be a huge RTS year, DOW2,SC2,COH (expansion).

*EDIT*

Yes as said for me BRD and UBRS were the best dungeons WoW offered and ZG the best raid.. diffculty was about right and rewards fruitful.

That's the result of having played WotlK through beta.
 

I am pretty sure you didn't do all the 25 men Raids to the last boss. My head on it.

Pretty sad when one of the few guys defending Wow gives in on the shit. Go play RTS which will beHUGE. WILL be.

As always.

Blizzard is just too good for this industry of cancer.

Originally posted by metalhead980

Originally posted by bodypass

Dungeons are shorter and to me that's more fun.

 

This makes me sick, the best part of WoWs dungeons were the length and the need for CC and team work.

If you had a shitty tank, shitty healer or newb Dps that couldnt follow kill order the dungeon wasn't worth running.

Now everyone wants dungeons to be fast so they could get to the loot it makes me freaking sick.

the Dungeon crawl was great in WoW, it let the best role in WoW shine (tanking). WoW had the best tanking out of all the MMOs in the last 5 years. now they've been gutted and made the same to run simple dungeons.

Tanks don't even need to tab target and build ample threat on adds anymore since every tank gets OP aoe tank abilities.

The tanking and dungeon changes were the biggest blow to me when trying out WotLK.

What a shame.

 

Edit: I find it funny that you complain about BRD, I would die for a massive 5 man dungeon like BRD in Northrend or Outland. that dungeon is classic you could go thier with ur friends and spen the whole day just doing everything.  I only hope blizzard revisits the old dungeons and makes them Heroic mode.

 

So my reaction ... makes you "sick".
 

Wow. I raid ONCE or twice a week and having a blast for 3 hours. Any longer and I don't have fun. Do 1 or 2 heroic dungeons a week and for the rest I PvP and role play IN my game.

So that makes you sick. Glad to know.

And btw I am NOT doing it for the "loot", because I couldn't care less. My stats are decent enough to contribute to the group. And as I am good enough in PvP ,I am a better player than most "PVE group followers".

Each BG is fun to me, perhaps that's also making you "sick".

Not everyone in Wow plays it for the gear you know. Why? gathering PVE gear for doing already the same thing you do and are good at?

I play it because I can play it the way I want it. And sadly no other mmorpg gives me these choices.

I think a Raid that takes hours and hours is already a good option, but give me PvP anytime.

Poor bodypass.. even coffee has turned on you...

and i don't even like coffee..

but the reality is, for all the shine of WOTLK, the game's mechanics are in decline. As one of the people who raided the orignal NAXX, I find myself playing WOW almost purely nostalgically now. that is after taking nearly 2 years off.

I know you really really want to defend it, and if you are enjoying it that's great, but the sense I get from the community is that the true hardcore gamers have left, and have been replaced by myspace zealots and cell-phone carrying teenagers. IT is just how culture evolves.. the game is becoming more like the sims and less a dangerous world.

to the original OP... upon returning to the game I was sooo dis-appointed in the retooling of the dungeons. And nerf doesn't even come close to explaining what they have done to classic content.

It is like an epic movie, which hugely successful, spawns a series of sequels that are SO BAD, not only do they suck in and of themselves, but they actually rob the orignal of its secret success. (star wars/matrix anyone?)

yes to me this is what WOW is like.... I would love to play again a classic server pre-BC... now that was a fun game... the only thing they forgot to  do in northrend was label the linear quest chains with chapters and put big red markers on the map ala WAR...

here is to the next good game! may it be small and triumphant!!

Originally posted by sorcielle

Poor bodypass.. even coffee has turned on you...

and i don't even like coffee..

but the reality is, for all the shine of WOTLK, the game's mechanics are in decline. As one of the people who raided the orignal NAXX, I find myself playing WOW almost purely nostalgically now. that is after taking nearly 2 years off.

I know you really really want to defend it, and if you are enjoying it that's great, but the sense I get from the community is that the true hardcore gamers have left, and have been replaced by myspace zealots and cell-phone carrying teenagers. IT is just how culture evolves.. the game is becoming more like the sims and less a dangerous world.

to the original OP... upon returning to the game I was sooo dis-appointed in the retooling of the dungeons. And nerf doesn't even come close to explaining what they have done to classic content.

It is like an epic movie, which hugely successful, spawns a series of sequels that are SO BAD, not only do they suck in and of themselves, but they actually rob the orignal of its secret success. (star wars/matrix anyone?)

yes to me this is what WOW is like.... I would love to play again a classic server pre-BC... now that was a fun game... the only thing they forgot to  do in northrend was label the linear quest chains with chapters and put big red markers on the map ala WAR...

here is to the next good game! may it be small and triumphant!!

 

 

I love the myspace/cell phone references.

In fact, the opposite is true.  The garage-dwelling pimple-faced teenagers that used to spend 3 hours clearing a dungeon filled with 95% trash mobs have moved on.   Those of us with real lifes who like to log in for an hour and actually complete a dungeon are the ones left.  The only difference between today's dungeons and the 'good old days' is the amount of trash mobs and the backtracking you have to do.  The boss fights in Wrath are MUCH better than anything from before BC.

Sorry, but people with lives don't want to waste their gametime clearing 20 pulls of the same trash mobs.

Originally posted by Azrile

Originally posted by sorcielle

Poor bodypass.. even coffee has turned on you...

and i don't even like coffee..

but the reality is, for all the shine of WOTLK, the game's mechanics are in decline. As one of the people who raided the orignal NAXX, I find myself playing WOW almost purely nostalgically now. that is after taking nearly 2 years off.

I know you really really want to defend it, and if you are enjoying it that's great, but the sense I get from the community is that the true hardcore gamers have left, and have been replaced by myspace zealots and cell-phone carrying teenagers. IT is just how culture evolves.. the game is becoming more like the sims and less a dangerous world.

to the original OP... upon returning to the game I was sooo dis-appointed in the retooling of the dungeons. And nerf doesn't even come close to explaining what they have done to classic content.

It is like an epic movie, which hugely successful, spawns a series of sequels that are SO BAD, not only do they suck in and of themselves, but they actually rob the orignal of its secret success. (star wars/matrix anyone?)

yes to me this is what WOW is like.... I would love to play again a classic server pre-BC... now that was a fun game... the only thing they forgot to  do in northrend was label the linear quest chains with chapters and put big red markers on the map ala WAR...

here is to the next good game! may it be small and triumphant!!

 

 

 

I love the myspace/cell phone references.

In fact, the opposite is true.  The garage-dwelling pimple-faced teenagers that used to spend 3 hours clearing a dungeon filled with 95% trash mobs have moved on.   Those of us with real lifes who like to log in for an hour and actually complete a dungeon are the ones left.  The only difference between today's dungeons and the 'good old days' is the amount of trash mobs and the backtracking you have to do.  The boss fights in Wrath are MUCH better than anything from before BC.

Sorry, but people with lives don't want to waste their gametime clearing 20 pulls of the same trash mobs.

 

But but ... practice makes perfect !  

I dunno I would rather play CoH for shorter dungeons and fun casual play.  At the same time clearing all the way through dungeons does get old fast.  Although certain parts of say Maurodon had some decent non-boss encounters back in the day.

But to some degree I kind of wish WoW had a difficulty slider like CoX because I remember that Maurodon with idiots was a pain.  The bridge and earth elemental patrols and people not being careful.  At least in CoH if I buld my character right and pop a few inspirations I can pretty much make up for idiots.  In old WoW you just wipe and then the jobbers say its too hard and waste your time.

Originally posted by metalhead980

So people that like long challenging dungeons have no life now?

The stupidity that come from you two flaming fanbois is truely amazing.

Reality check guys if you cant plan ahead and do one normal dungeon in wow (2+ hours) why are you playing MMOs?

 

And yes! bodypass you make me sick because you like quick non-challenging dungeon runs. Its sickening to think such a flaming fanboi would agree with raping one of the best features in WoW its dungeons.

the thing is..  dungeons were NOT more challenging back then.  They were just longer with lots of repeat trash mobs.  The 'hard' part was getting people who were able to play 4 hours straight.   MC required vent just so the raid leader could yell every once and awhile to wake everyone up.

How many fights pre-60  required the dps characters to even MOVE their character let alone react to anything the boss did?

Originally posted by metalhead980

Originally posted by bodypass

Dungeons are shorter and to me that's more fun.

 

This makes me sick, the best part of WoWs dungeons were the length and the need for CC and team work.

If you had a shitty tank, shitty healer or newb Dps that couldnt follow kill order the dungeon wasn't worth running.

Now everyone wants dungeons to be fast so they could get to the loot it makes me freaking sick.

the Dungeon crawl was great in WoW, it let the best role in WoW shine (tanking). WoW had the best tanking out of all the MMOs in the last 5 years. now they've been gutted and made the same to run simple dungeons.

Tanks don't even need to tab target and build ample threat on adds anymore since every tank gets OP aoe tank abilities.

The tanking and dungeon changes were the biggest blow to me when trying out WotLK.

What a shame.

 

Edit: I find it funny that you complain about BRD, I would die for a massive 5 man dungeon like BRD in Northrend or Outland. that dungeon is classic you could go thier with ur friends and spen the whole day just doing everything.  I only hope blizzard revisits the old dungeons and makes them Heroic mode.

 

 I Agree with you 100%, I wish WoW could go beack to the way it was Before The Burining Crusade that was when you rly needed Stradegy and it took more than a couple of tries to get it right. For Example Naxx, when i first tried Naxx on my Warlock with my Guild it took us atleast 10 tries to get it right then we had a few more wipes where someone accidently messed up. IF only IF only...

Originally posted by Azrile 

the thing is..  dungeons were NOT more challenging back then.  They were just longer with lots of repeat trash mobs.  The 'hard' part was getting people who were able to play 4 hours straight.   MC required vent just so the raid leader could yell every once and awhile to wake everyone up.

How many fights pre-60  required the dps characters to even MOVE their character let alone react to anything the boss did?

What he said.  (not counting the huge HP nerf)

Originally posted by bodypass

Originally posted by coffee

 

Im sure many know me as a WoW fanboy, but I have to agree WOTLK, or rather the class changes in WOTLK has made dungeons to easy, all dungeons can be AOE'd.. there is no need for CC or any real strategy like in classic WoW... I have to say WoW has become too casual for me.. to easy... blizzard did a great job in terms of content and design in WOTLK not faulting that one bit, but they also made it too damn easy in dungeons and raids.

Blizzard often say "we want all to experience end game"... they have done that by just making it easier... wrong move in my book.

I have taken a holiday from WoW as 2009 will be a huge RTS year, DOW2,SC2,COH (expansion).

*EDIT*

Yes as said for me BRD and UBRS were the best dungeons WoW offered and ZG the best raid.. diffculty was about right and rewards fruitful.

That's the result of having played WotlK through beta.
 

I am pretty sure you didn't do all the 25 men Raids to the last boss. My head on it.

Pretty sad when one of the few guys defending Wow gives in on the shit. Go play RTS which will beHUGE. WILL be.

 

As always.

Blizzard is just too good for this industry of cancer.

 

Bit extreme =D
 

Just giving my view, yes I played beta for a few months, and yes i loved AOE'ing the dungeons was great fun but I thought it was only because classes where not balanced yet for the content, but come live you can AOE a dungeon, no more marking targets for CC etc.  And that was one of the aspects i enjoyed.

Sure its let all classes and specs into the content, which was blizzards aim but its also made it a little too easy IMHO

And no I only went to 10man Naxx.... so cant speak for raids but naxx 10 man was AOE fun again.

Again I am sure I'll return in the future but I feel blizzard have made it a little too easy (in dungeons and the raids I have done) than how it was back in Classic WoW and to a lesser degree TBC.

Yes, dungeons have progressively gotten shorter, and easier, with bigger rewards.

Long gone are the days of slogging through BRD (which was an awesome dungeon) to get in to Molten Core (sigh).

Replying to what the OP said, you will be seeing AoE pulls all the way up to 80. Its just the way WoW is now simple and easy, since content in TBC was nerf hard in a patch right before the explansion to allow players to experience the raid content before release (I was able to pug a few full BT runs due to the nerf). But what got me was everything was nerf not just raid content, 5-mans and heroics included.

Stratholme and Scholomance are rarely run mainly because those instances were really for 60's (yes I know you can enter before 60, but even in vanilla WoW a full group of 60's had a hard time in those places), and the fact of the matter is once you hit 58 off you go to outlands.

Overall Blizzard's WoW now cater for the overwhelming number of casual players compared to the raid type players, which imo was the right choice for them to make money. 

Originally posted by metalhead980

Originally posted by Zorndorf

Originally posted by metalhead980

Oh give me a break already, first we have bodypass getting all upset and emotional now AZ writing this shit.

The only reason you think Wotlk dungeons are harder is due to only counting the boss encounters.  A dungeon isnt only about the boss fights. This is the problem with WoW players today they just want to rush through a dungeon, they don't remember the trash only bosses.  Oh and bosses in vanilla WoW were just as challenging if you did them at the right level, not like the Ezmode players that wouldnt take anyone into a 5 man without being 2-4 levels over every mob in the place.  want me to bring up a hard 5 man? Pre-nerf scholo ran 5 man not 10. That dungeon was considered harder then raid content at the time.

Oh and what boss required you to move pre-60? lets see Princess in Mara? yeah you wow guys forget those leveling dungeons pretty quick huh? "wow doesnt start until engame" bullshit!

 

 

Give me a break, because I don't understand your anger and attitiude....
 

Hardly two weeks ago you were screaming in this forum you couldn't play Wow anymore because of the "time" it was needed to gather the best gear in the game... The raid schedule ... remember ?

You wanted to have your life back and Wow raiding was just too much time consuming and you only wanted to have the "very best gear" in the game,... So you decided to stop a year ago because of time management and the long raids.

Now these guys above say they have fun with smaller raids and less time ... and

you come back complaining that the raids and dungeons are less time consuming.

You sound like my old uncle complaining because the day is too warm or too cold.

I have a remedy: just play WotLK.

Saying that i can't play a game anymore because I dont have the time for schedules is totally different than complaining about how hard a dungeons is. people grow up man.

I never once said I wanted raid content to be dumbed down like it is in Wotlk did I?

That whole other thread was about raid schedules not the challenge of dungeon content and blizzard gutting it. I never Ever! wanted WoWs dungeons to be easier Ever!

Also if blizzard kept the dungeons challenging and made them shorter that would be fine but they didnt, Everything is Ezmode now. Short, Aoe fest, simple dungeons thats not what i was talking about in my other post.

Not liking schedules and disliking Ezmode dungeons are two totally different topics.

Nice try on calling me out though, was kind of funny.

Yeah.. you've basically been busted.  You held up the 'old' style 4 hour dungeons as your standard.. now someone has called you on the fact that you were complaining before about having to schedule stuff in WOW.  Do you even play the game.

I really don't think you do.   People are still wiping very regularly on heroics.  My guild does the daily heroic and occassionaly we still wipe if someone isn't paying attention.  The boss encounters are MUCH more challenging for DPS than anything before BC.  You actually have to pay attention to what is happening, not just spam your dps rotation as fast as possible.    The bosses got harder, and the hour of  clearing trash between bosses was removed.

Originally posted by metalhead980

Originally posted by bodypass

Dungeons are shorter and to me that's more fun.

 

This makes me sick, the best part of WoWs dungeons were the length and the need for CC and team work.

If you had a shitty tank, shitty healer or newb Dps that couldnt follow kill order the dungeon wasn't worth running.

Now everyone wants dungeons to be fast so they could get to the loot it makes me freaking sick.

the Dungeon crawl was great in WoW, it let the best role in WoW shine (tanking). WoW had the best tanking out of all the MMOs in the last 5 years. now they've been gutted and made the same to run simple dungeons.

Tanks don't even need to tab target and build ample threat on adds anymore since every tank gets OP aoe tank abilities.

The tanking and dungeon changes were the biggest blow to me when trying out WotLK.

What a shame.

 

Edit: I find it funny that you complain about BRD, I would die for a massive 5 man dungeon like BRD in Northrend or Outland. that dungeon is classic you could go thier with ur friends and spen the whole day just doing everything.  I only hope blizzard revisits the old dungeons and makes them Heroic mode.

 

um i can't even start to point out the numerous reasons your wrong but if a tank now can't multitank mobs well then the run isnt worth doing that hasnt changed buddy. Druids never used to have to tab target to tank now they do warriors and pallies don't. DK tanks also have to tab targed. Learn what they have changed before you speak. Also the dungeons are shorter but are so much more scripted and detailed than anything before. They are by far more emmersive rather than the 2 hour hell runs of Live or UD strat where nothing ever drops and you feel like you wasted a good portion of your day. WoW changed things up so people could actually have lives and still enjoy the game.

Also blizzard stated that the early content in lich would be made easier so people can get the gear needed for the first big content patch. The new Raid will be hard and challenging compared to whats out now so all the cry babies and whinners can just shut up