I didn't find this disurbing at all.

I found it refreshingly honest.    They don't sound super professional.  But that second to last paragraph made no bones about that.  They said they want a good game with a tight community and that there is a lot of hype around the game.

I guess the problem is most people are really bad at managing a project yet they think they are good at it.  These guys making this game are basically normal.  Good management is actually quite rare.

You know what you are getting.  This is not AoC.  It might be unplayable I have no idea.  But they have made it quite plain how they are operating and what their goals are.

You can really fault them if they wind up with 100k or 200k subs.  They are not like WAR and thinking they will get 1 million.  In fact they seem surprised that they have 200k apps.

Originally posted by winter

 Don't be silly Tasos has said time and time again the servers have been tested by advanced AI bots and paid professional testers. Tasos never lies so how could the servers not be ready?

taking it out of context...

Originally posted by zelldevil

i hate to agree with Guillermo197 cuz he seems like such an ass, but  i must agree with everything he said.  real people are needed, not bullshit lame reasons such as "we have thousands of AI bots testing"  ...thats just a lame excuse for not being real.

that was never said tho he asid the help of the ai thats it never to what extent or anything

Originally posted by downtoearth

Originally posted by winter

 Don't be silly Tasos has said time and time again the servers have been tested by advanced AI bots and paid professional testers. Tasos never lies so how could the servers not be ready?

taking it out of context...

What context makes it wise to be a week from launch have and never even scheduled, much less completed ,a full scale test of the game? The games production servers not only haven't been tested at capacity they havent even been loaded. They have no billing system.  Go read the "context "of Tasos announcement.

But if the game is in such dire straits, why offer a free trial period before release?  I mean, if anything it's a more effective way to market the game.  Could the game crash and burn?  Sure it could, but far too many people are willing to scream foul at this game before it has even launched.  THAT BEING SAID, I think there should be some sort of requirement for ALL MMORPG's be required to offer players at least a 7 to 14 day free trial before making any purchases.  I'm sick and tired of buying games with the promise of fun, only to be bent over the barrel (literally speaking of course).  At least Darkfall is offering this much.  As much as I want to see it succeed, I don't think I'd spend the money to play it at launch.  To be honest, I don't think I'd do it for any game unless I was in the beta the way developers have been treating their games lately.

Originally posted by ianubisi

I believe Darkfall is in serious trouble. I think there is a strong possibility that the game may be released, but I also have a strong suspicion that if it is it will be revealed as the Emperor with No Clothes. There are a number of reasons I've come to this conclusion. Here is how I have interpreted today's announcement on top of the scan clues that have been provided over the past few weeks.

* Within the last few months they shifted from the Blizzard-like "when it's ready" stance to a finite date. This usually is a precursor to running out of financing.

* One of the most prominent public appearances of the game in recent weeks has been at a fundraising effort, expressing the game's merits to investors, apparently who likely have very little experience in the gaming industry. It's almost desperate, but I wouldn't fault anyone for finding funding if they can find it.

* Little information at all has been available within the last few weeks about the state of the game, other than some very controlled experiences released by exceptionally biased and friendly people. Classic damage control and spin.

* Tasos has clearly laid out that "Darkfall’s partners (distribution, billing, account management, support, etc.) entered into the game at a late date and we needed more time than expected to integrate properly." Billing, account management, and support are enterin late? Billing? My god...this has to be one of the most important aspects of running a business as can be imagined...how can this be listed as a late entry to a successful business model?

* A shift from the "no pre-orders" stance to "A pre-order will be made available mid-February" with the incentive of "pre-orders will also get priority for the game launch if we have to go to a staged release." An extremely clear sign that they are running out of money and need funding...this time, from prospective customers rather than outside investors. Investors eventually start demanding revenue be a portion of the operating expense...and that has clearly begun to happen.

* An apparent acknowledgement that they are not prepared to handle with their infrastructure the apparently demand for their service, which is confirmed by: "Demand for Darkfall at launch could be much higher than expected. If this is the case, we need a different process to better handle the demand." This is extremely alarming, since Tasos has touted the 200,000+ gamers that have registered for the game. It cannot possibly be a surprise that a fair portion of those 200,000+ gamers might actually want to play it...causing infastructure demand. But they clearly cannot handle the load....this is a dillema.

* A total lack of stress testing is absurdly alarming, and should have anyone who is a devotee of this game crying foul. In Tasos' own words: "We want as many players as possible in the game before the launch and we haven’t had the chance to stress test our servers with live players yet.". Let me reiterate: "we haven't had the chance to stress test our servers with live players yet." Even if you extend their deadline to the end of February, that's a frightening statement.

I firmly believe they have a good multiplayer game, based on the reports from the extremely select group of playtesters that have been allowed to talk about it. But a good multipler game is definitely not a MMOG, and a MMOG is exponentially more complicated and expensive to run than a multiplayer game.

It appears to me that Aventurine is running out of money and running out of time. I speculate that the game isn't capable of handling 10's of thousands of users, and even if the game was capable of it they don't have the clerical and bureaucratic infrastructure to handle it. All of it promises, even with the very best of intentions, an absolute mess.

I've said it before, and I'll repeat it again:

I want Darkfall to succeed.

Every success in the MMOG industry continues to perpetuate the entertainment of the future. It is an inevitable future, and the more diverse it is the better. I want them to succeed, but I also am tired of stomaching the ecstatic delusions of devotees who refuse to learn from the painful lessons of previous experience.

All this being said...let's see how this all turns out. No doubt this post will be sliced and diced by the partisans...have fun with it.

Very Well Said.

You are probably going to go to hell now, though.

Originally posted by strongaxe

I would also like to comment that the delay Tasos put out is very good news. The game is really solid and just needs some more time. An additional month feels like enough time to me. Far better than releasing it a month early after all these years of waiting. So again, this is very good news and people should be highly positive about it. Darkfall potentially is a game you could play for a very long time, I know I will. -leakreader2

 

Oh hey thar is that leakreader2??!?!?!?!??! Omg have you come to crush all trolls hopes and dreams with your leaks?!?!

 

No taker?

Originally posted by ianubisi

I believe Darkfall is in serious trouble. I think there is a strong possibility that the game may be released, but I also have a strong suspicion that if it is it will be revealed as the Emperor with No Clothes. There are a number of reasons I've come to this conclusion. Here is how I have interpreted today's announcement on top of the scan clues that have been provided over the past few weeks.

* Within the last few months they shifted from the Blizzard-like "when it's ready" stance to a finite date. This usually is a precursor to running out of financing.

* One of the most prominent public appearances of the game in recent weeks has been at a fundraising effort, expressing the game's merits to investors, apparently who likely have very little experience in the gaming industry. It's almost desperate, but I wouldn't fault anyone for finding funding if they can find it.

* Little information at all has been available within the last few weeks about the state of the game, other than some very controlled experiences released by exceptionally biased and friendly people. Classic damage control and spin.

* Tasos has clearly laid out that "Darkfall’s partners (distribution, billing, account management, support, etc.) entered into the game at a late date and we needed more time than expected to integrate properly." Billing, account management, and support are enterin late? Billing? My god...this has to be one of the most important aspects of running a business as can be imagined...how can this be listed as a late entry to a successful business model?

* A shift from the "no pre-orders" stance to "A pre-order will be made available mid-February" with the incentive of "pre-orders will also get priority for the game launch if we have to go to a staged release." An extremely clear sign that they are running out of money and need funding...this time, from prospective customers rather than outside investors. Investors eventually start demanding revenue be a portion of the operating expense...and that has clearly begun to happen.

* An apparent acknowledgement that they are not prepared to handle with their infrastructure the apparently demand for their service, which is confirmed by: "Demand for Darkfall at launch could be much higher than expected. If this is the case, we need a different process to better handle the demand." This is extremely alarming, since Tasos has touted the 200,000+ gamers that have registered for the game. It cannot possibly be a surprise that a fair portion of those 200,000+ gamers might actually want to play it...causing infastructure demand. But they clearly cannot handle the load....this is a dillema.

* A total lack of stress testing is absurdly alarming, and should have anyone who is a devotee of this game crying foul. In Tasos' own words: "We want as many players as possible in the game before the launch and we haven’t had the chance to stress test our servers with live players yet.". Let me reiterate: "we haven't had the chance to stress test our servers with live players yet." Even if you extend their deadline to the end of February, that's a frightening statement.

I firmly believe they have a good multiplayer game, based on the reports from the extremely select group of playtesters that have been allowed to talk about it. But a good multipler game is definitely not a MMOG, and a MMOG is exponentially more complicated and expensive to run than a multiplayer game.

It appears to me that Aventurine is running out of money and running out of time. I speculate that the game isn't capable of handling 10's of thousands of users, and even if the game was capable of it they don't have the clerical and bureaucratic infrastructure to handle it. All of it promises, even with the very best of intentions, an absolute mess.

I've said it before, and I'll repeat it again:

I want Darkfall to succeed.

Every success in the MMOG industry continues to perpetuate the entertainment of the future. It is an inevitable future, and the more diverse it is the better. I want them to succeed, but I also am tired of stomaching the ecstatic delusions of devotees who refuse to learn from the painful lessons of previous experience.

All this being said...let's see how this all turns out. No doubt this post will be sliced and diced by the partisans...have fun with it.

Another DF will fail thread... you are original good sir.

Honest and neutral thanks to the OP

My opinion is: there is NO mmorpg actually playable on the packs , it's a small TC or multiplayer game, with few features, bad and old graphisms and no more.

Don't expect  a rich sandbox game you won't have one, some of DnL like a very very bad FPS, nothing else. (cf videos: looks like a bad and old FPS no more no less)

(And i'd like to play a sandbox game but it doesnt' exist ATM. Won't exist : needs BIGS COMPANIES  BIGS FUNDS a lot of devs and a lot of money. Cost a lot of money and 99/% of players don't want a SandboxPVP HCG game.)

Professional Investors:

- small game for maybe 10K players

- small Cy no funds

- nothing to see nothing to expect to try

- "Money for nothing?"

- No money for your project

Players will be the investors.Without end of DNA, and a large open beta, take care.

Originally posted by gestalt11

I didn't find this disurbing at all.

 

I found it refreshingly honest.    They don't sound super professional.  But that second to last paragraph made no bones about that.  They said they want a good game with a tight community and that there is a lot of hype around the game.

 

I guess the problem is most people are really bad at managing a project yet they think they are good at it.  These guys making this game are basically normal.  Good management is actually quite rare.

 

You know what you are getting.  This is not AoC.  It might be unplayable I have no idea.  But they have made it quite plain how they are operating and what their goals are.

 

You can really fault them if they wind up with 100k or 200k subs.  They are not like WAR and thinking they will get 1 million.  In fact they seem surprised that they have 200k apps.

C'mon now gestalt, you found it refreshing? A week before the game is supposed to go live they backtrack at least a month and now say they will open up preordering. Games delay but to say they were 'honest' about it is very farfeteched. They told everyone at the last minute and have now completely changed business practices with preordering, early access, and no longer a free trial for everyone.

All you really said in your post was "These guys are not good at their jobs because it is rare to find people that are good at their jobs." While that may be true, to stand there and say it is refreshing or OK for that to be the case... well I just expected a little more coming from you.

My assesment of whats happening would be this.  The beta they have been running is on their own internal servers not on the giant cluster server hosted by GNi as the cost of the cost of keeping that running must be enormous, they probably aren't going to even to set it up until the last possible moment.  If they are running it on a small cluster then they might not be able turn all the features on at once so they have been using small number of testers and testing the features that they can.  It sounds like the real cluster might be ready next week so they can start using that and switch everything on.  Until then they don't want anyone reporting on it.

Excellent points based on observations and logic.  Those that dismiss the OP as "another darkfall fails" thread are blind, dumb, and are dangerously ripe for cult recruiting.

Although these warnings are by no means conclusive of what will come, the danger flags they raise cannot be ignored by the rational.

It is dangerous to underestimate the bugs and performance issues live stress testing could uncover.  It's possible huge problems will surface requiring significant design changes.

Originally posted by strongaxe No taker?

Originally posted by strongaxe

I would also like to comment that the delay Tasos put out is very good news. The game is really solid and just needs some more time. An additional month feels like enough time to me. Far better than releasing it a month early after all these years of waiting. So again, this is very good news and people should be highly positive about it. Darkfall potentially is a game you could play for a very long time, I know I will. -leakreader2

 

Oh hey thar is that leakreader2??!?!?!?!??! Omg have you come to crush all trolls hopes and dreams with your leaks?!?!

 

I'll just save this and repost it a month from now.

BTW: I really don't think they are spending the extra time to polish the game. There time will be spent on getting more funds and setting up some sort of infrastructure (how the hell does one give a release date without a infrastructure in place is beyond me).

There is only one reason to keep the CB up and running at this point in the game. Keeping the NDA inforced is more important than so called feedback from beta testers.

Originally posted by strongaxe

Originally posted by strongaxe

I would also like to comment that the delay Tasos put out is very good news. The game is really solid and just needs some more time. An additional month feels like enough time to me. Far better than releasing it a month early after all these years of waiting. So again, this is very good news and people should be highly positive about it. Darkfall potentially is a game you could play for a very long time, I know I will. -leakreader2

 

Oh hey thar is that leakreader2??!?!?!?!??! Omg have you come to crush all trolls hopes and dreams with your leaks?!?!

 

 

No taker?

<yawn> most don't bother with people pulling made up 'facts' out of there arses. Or are you saying that this is actually true? I guess you are gonna loose your beta spot then. 

Earthrise is really solid and I will be playing it for a really long time. Seewhat I did there?

Originally posted by Binny45

But if the game is in such dire straits, why offer a free trial period before release?  I mean, if anything it's a more effective way to market the game.  Could the game crash and burn?  Sure it could, but far too many people are willing to scream foul at this game before it has even launched.  THAT BEING SAID, I think there should be some sort of requirement for ALL MMORPG's be required to offer players at least a 7 to 14 day free trial before making any purchases.  I'm sick and tired of buying games with the promise of fun, only to be bent over the barrel (literally speaking of course).  At least Darkfall is offering this much.  As much as I want to see it succeed, I don't think I'd spend the money to play it at launch.  To be honest, I don't think I'd do it for any game unless I was in the beta the way developers have been treating their games lately.

Here is your disconnect from reality.  You actually think there is going to be a 'trial' on Jan 22nd.   Tasos talked about the 'trial' on the 22nd, then said it would be 'limited'.    Limited to what?  100 more of his friends and family?

Jan 22nd is going to come and go, and nothing is going to change.   We might get a comment from Tasos saying 'more people' are playing the trial.. but nobody here will be, and nobody we know will be... it will be exactly like it is now.   Apparently someone is playing, but there are no outside reviews, videos or even gameplay descriptions.

Then a bunch of people will get ripped off when they pre-order.

Originally posted by Zayne3145

Originally posted by observer

Vanguard, AoC, WAR, and soon DF.....and the trend continues.  As long as people keep buying unfinished products, they'll keep selling them.

 

QFT.

I made that mistake with AoC and got my fingers burnt. Never again. Unfortunately some people never learn.

Name one finished product upon launch that is an MMORPG? You can't, because that's what an MMO is. This isn't some defense against Darkfall, because DF is not my cup of tea. But let's be serious here, do you have any idea what your talking about? I can run down a huge list of "unifinished" MMORPG's as you claim, but what really is "unifinished" to you? Thinking before posting might help. Until PC's are like consoles, you will NEVER see this dreamed product of yours. Sorry for the de-rail, but this post sounded like someone who's never played an MMORPG before. 

Originally posted by Lonewolf

They are an independent company, funded by independent investors, did you think it would be smooth sailing for them

Every company starts somewhere, Aventurine is no different its just a shame that it happened to take so long for the production of the game, and thus the silly amount of vaporware and critiques appearing from people in the gaming world

CCP was an indie company when they developed EVE.  That's no excuse to give them that reason of why Aventurine have taken 8 years to develop and so many issues to date. 

Compared to CCP, Aventurine is just doing everything wrong. Even for a small company.

Originally posted by Enigma

Originally posted by Lonewolf

They are an independent company, funded by independent investors, did you think it would be smooth sailing for them

Every company starts somewhere, Aventurine is no different its just a shame that it happened to take so long for the production of the game, and thus the silly amount of vaporware and critiques appearing from people in the gaming world

 

CCP was an indie company when they developed EVE.  That's no excuse to give them that reason of why Aventurine have taken 8 years to develop and so many issues to date. 

Compared to CCP, Aventurine is just doing everything wrong. Even for a small company.

5 years, not 8 years. Thought you would have learned the lore by now Enigma

Edit: 6 years :)

Another pointless irrelevant ignorant hate filled wall of text rant by a WoW carebear, Darkfall is feature complete and has been fully tested, and is ready for release, Tasos told us, he knows not you.

Tasos is delaying the full release by a month purely for the benefit of the community so that the full release will have no problems and the game will be the best ever.

Pre orders have only been begrudgingly made available after the over whelming demand from the followers for them against Tasos's best intentions.

Tasos is only allowing preorders purely to help stage the release of the game and to determine demand more accurately, but only to ensure that the full release is flawless, you should be thanking him for allowing you the privilege of preordering this revolutionary groundbreaking advanced game.

Tasos is committed to only launching Darkfall when it is perfect and polished, which is why he agreed to the community's wishes to delay the full launch until the 25th of February, you should be thanking Tasos for delaying the game again so its everything you've ever wanted when its released.

Originally posted by Xris375

Originally posted by Enigma

Originally posted by Lonewolf

They are an independent company, funded by independent investors, did you think it would be smooth sailing for them

Every company starts somewhere, Aventurine is no different its just a shame that it happened to take so long for the production of the game, and thus the silly amount of vaporware and critiques appearing from people in the gaming world

 

CCP was an indie company when they developed EVE.  That's no excuse to give them that reason of why Aventurine have taken 8 years to develop and so many issues to date. 

Compared to CCP, Aventurine is just doing everything wrong. Even for a small company.

5 years, not 8 years. Thought you would have learned the lore by now Enigma

Edit: 6 years :)

No its 8 years. I dont care if Tasos wants to convince himself and his worshippers its 5 but the game started development in 2001. They might have restarted, so what. Its still the same name and some things carried over.

Its 8 yrs and thats pathetic

Originally posted by stayontarget

Very nice and a must read for anyone looking into this game.

Agree 100%

Originally posted by mackdawg19

Name one finished product upon launch that is an MMORPG? You can't, because that's what an MMO is. This isn't some defense against Darkfall, because DF is not my cup of tea. But let's be serious here, do you have any idea what your talking about? I can run down a huge list of "unifinished" MMORPG's as you claim, but what really is "unifinished" to you?

Personally, I tend to think that when people talk about "unfinished" MMO's, they're  really talking about unpolished, unstable ones. It's not a matter of an MMO being finished on release, as in all of the content that will ever be in the game is in the game, but rather that the developers have worked hard on the game, tested it thoroughly and can offer consumers a well designed, relatively stable, very polished game that works out of the box when you install it on your PC.

 Does the game work when I go to install it? Can I patch it with relative ease, and can I play with a fairly stable connection, without major game breaking issues (CTD's, severe memory leaks, etc.)? Do the customer support and billing services work? Do the basic mechanics that the developers want me to use (i.e., combat, trade, chat, NPC merchants, NPC banks, crafting and tradeskills, travel, etc.) work?

If a game client is unstable, has serious issues that are basic in nature (i.e., Anarchy Online's horrid memory leaks at launch, Vanguard's launch problems with CTD, hitching, and various performance issues, etc.), people will quit and call the game unfinished. Why? Because it doesn't work. It's not polished. That's what people are talking about.

Originally posted by Polarization

Another pointless irrelevant ignorant hate filled wall of text rant by a WoW carebear, Darkfall is feature complete and has been fully tested, and is ready for release, Tasos told us, he knows not you.

Tasos is delaying the full release by a month purely for the benefit of the community so that the full release will have no problems and the game will be the best ever.

Pre orders have only been begrudgingly made available after the over whelming demand from the followers for them against Tasos's best intentions.

Tasos is only allowing preorders purely to help stage the release of the game and to determine demand more accurately, but only to ensure that the full release is flawless, you should be thanking him for allowing you the privilege of preordering this revolutionary groundbreaking advanced game.

Tasos is committed to only launching Darkfall when it is perfect and polished, which is why he agreed to the community's wishes to delay the full launch until the 25th of February, you should be thanking Tasos for delaying the game again so its everything you've ever wanted when its released.

Tasos says this, Tasos said that, Tasos is only concerned with the community, Tasos is a giving person, Tasos loves us....

good grief man.

Fanboism - They tie their ego and heart to the game and therefore must defend it at all cost. Any criticism must be met with vicious reprisal. Any evidence that threatens the ego must be ignored. History is of no concern because this time will be different.
 

Originally posted by admriker4

Originally posted by Xris375

Originally posted by Enigma

Originally posted by Lonewolf

They are an independent company, funded by independent investors, did you think it would be smooth sailing for them

Every company starts somewhere, Aventurine is no different its just a shame that it happened to take so long for the production of the game, and thus the silly amount of vaporware and critiques appearing from people in the gaming world

 

CCP was an indie company when they developed EVE.  That's no excuse to give them that reason of why Aventurine have taken 8 years to develop and so many issues to date. 

Compared to CCP, Aventurine is just doing everything wrong. Even for a small company.

5 years, not 8 years. Thought you would have learned the lore by now Enigma

Edit: 6 years :)

 

No its 8 years. I dont care if Tasos wants to convince himself and his worshippers its 5 but the game started development in 2001. They might have restarted, so what. Its still the same name and some things carried over.

Its 8 yrs and thats pathetic

That is like saying Warhammer Online startet development in 1983. It's still the same name and some things carried over, right ? And it's 6 years, not 5.

Originally posted by mackdawg19

Originally posted by Zayne3145

Originally posted by observer

Vanguard, AoC, WAR, and soon DF.....and the trend continues.  As long as people keep buying unfinished products, they'll keep selling them.

 

QFT.

I made that mistake with AoC and got my fingers burnt. Never again. Unfortunately some people never learn.

 

Name one finished product upon launch that is an MMORPG? You can't, because that's what an MMO is. This isn't some defense against Darkfall, because DF is not my cup of tea. But let's be serious here, do you have any idea what your talking about? I can run down a huge list of "unifinished" MMORPG's as you claim, but what really is "unifinished" to you? Thinking before posting might help. Until PC's are like consoles, you will NEVER see this dreamed product of yours. Sorry for the de-rail, but this post sounded like someone who's never played an MMORPG before. 

It is true that technically no MMO is ever truly complete.

However what many probably define as unfinished is an MMO missing Features they promise at launch.

For example, Age of Conan promised the first MMO with DX10 support. Its listed on the box even. Only thing is, the game doesnt have DX10 and that was kept from players right up until launch. Therefore the game is unfinished.

Star Wars Galaxies promised mounts, player cities, and space for launch. The game launched without those features. They also said jedi was possible to achieve at launch, it wasnt. Therefore the game launched unfinished.

I could go on and on with examples.