Originally posted by xpiher

I read about mourning. That game was a scam, i don't know much about DnL. Maybe I should say that in order for the game to be a scam it will actually have to scam people out of money first. So

1) The game is a scam if it doesn't exist but charges people money for it

2) Is a shell of a game on the level of Mourning on top of double charging peopel and being unethical.

You're forgetting one other scenario. Just like Colton Burgess did with the last Mourning incarnation known as Thrones of Chaos, it wasn't the customers who got scammed ( as he folded up shop and ran with the money ), it was the investors.

Put it like this: I wonder whether Tasos could account for every dime of the millions he got in grants, along with all the money from other investors, if audited and demanded to show such?

Originally posted by ZtyX

Originally posted by Stradden

Thanks for your input:

That being said, it is a perfectly legitimate criticism. Pre-orders helping to gauge interest in an MMO is not new, in fact, it is a common business practice. Aventurine stated that they would not hold pre-orders for the game, thus either flying in the face of a commonly known practice, or being ignorant of it. In either case, pointing out the inconsistency is completely valid.

I'm pleased to see that you're behind the pre-orders. That's entirely your perogative and is entirely your opinion. The point in the article wasn't to tell people "this is bad" in fact, if you read the section, you'll see that I speak to this:

"Having looked more closely at what was said, it is difficult to deny that something in the company's policies have changed with players who pre-oder getting priority for entrance into the sample and / or launch. that said, the announcement states that preorders are necessary to gauge demand. it is true that many companies use this technique, however, earlier promises made seem to contradict this decision."

 

 

Thanks for the reply.

Yes. You are actually right. It is legitimate. I do believe the things you've mentioned in the article are relevant. So they deserve to be voiced in an article. And I must say that I have enjoyed reading articles here on MMORPG.COM about Darkfall. It's always nice to hear news about the game.

Perhaps I was slightly wrong and what I really meant was that I hope others will see this news in a brighter light. I am quite active in the community of Darkfall and I don't remember being part of something this expansive. There are really all sorts of people following this game. I'm definitely convinced that the negative comments in this section only represent a smaller part of all those who follow Darkfall. It's just that most are preparing for the game. Chatting with friends and having fun in forumfall, where some troll - but not with a negative attitude.

Anyway. Thanks for the article.

LOL!  You can actually say that stuff with a straight face? 
 

Come on... most of us have seen what the vast majority over on the Official Forums think of you. 

Oh... and perhaps you forgot your involvement in trying to preach the gospel of DnL?  

Oh well... was good for a laugh.  Thanks for that.  

Originally posted by xzyax

Originally posted by ZtyX

Originally posted by Stradden

Thanks for your input:

That being said, it is a perfectly legitimate criticism. Pre-orders helping to gauge interest in an MMO is not new, in fact, it is a common business practice. Aventurine stated that they would not hold pre-orders for the game, thus either flying in the face of a commonly known practice, or being ignorant of it. In either case, pointing out the inconsistency is completely valid.

I'm pleased to see that you're behind the pre-orders. That's entirely your perogative and is entirely your opinion. The point in the article wasn't to tell people "this is bad" in fact, if you read the section, you'll see that I speak to this:

"Having looked more closely at what was said, it is difficult to deny that something in the company's policies have changed with players who pre-oder getting priority for entrance into the sample and / or launch. that said, the announcement states that preorders are necessary to gauge demand. it is true that many companies use this technique, however, earlier promises made seem to contradict this decision."

 

 

Thanks for the reply.

Yes. You are actually right. It is legitimate. I do believe the things you've mentioned in the article are relevant. So they deserve to be voiced in an article. And I must say that I have enjoyed reading articles here on MMORPG.COM about Darkfall. It's always nice to hear news about the game.

Perhaps I was slightly wrong and what I really meant was that I hope others will see this news in a brighter light. I am quite active in the community of Darkfall and I don't remember being part of something this expansive. There are really all sorts of people following this game. I'm definitely convinced that the negative comments in this section only represent a smaller part of all those who follow Darkfall. It's just that most are preparing for the game. Chatting with friends and having fun in forumfall, where some troll - but not with a negative attitude.

Anyway. Thanks for the article.

LOL!  You can actually say that stuff with a straight face? 
 

 

Come on... most of us have seen what the vast majority over on the Official Forums think of you. 

Oh... and perhaps you forgot your involvement in trying to preach the gospel of DnL?  

Oh well... was good for a laugh.  Thanks for that.  

This should give people a good idea of Ztyx credibility when it comes to anything game related:

www.mmorpg.com/discussion2.cfm/post/2575793#2575793

What is with the rampant hatred of Darkfall? It hasn't even come out yet and there are quite a few people who would love to see it fail? You stated that you or WOW players were not afraid of Darkfall. If you are not afraid of it then why do you hate it so much?

I don't think I have ever seen a game trashed so much before it's release. I've seen this kind of hype if not more, but never this much controversy.

Lol this is funny what will be doing on the 22nd jan 2009....

UMMMM STILL WAITING FOR DARKFALL....

Originally posted by Ciano

What is with the rampant hatred of Darkfall? It hasn't even come out yet and there are quite a few people who would love to see it fail? You stated that you or WOW players were not afraid of Darkfall. If you are not afraid of it then why do you hate it so much?

I don't think I have ever seen a game trashed so much before it's release. I've seen this kind of hype if not more, but never this much controversy.

You haven't been following these forums for the last several years I would guess, so I can see your confusion.

I believe even most of the so called "trolls" would love to see this game succeed.  Most of them believe in the concept.  What they don't believe in is Tasos and all the BS he spins.

The problem here is, time and again, Tasos has proven to be one of two things.

1.) A slippery snake oil vendor whose silver tongue has created drooling masses of addle minded followers who can't see past the BS to the truth of the matter.  Or...

2.) He is an utterly incompetent PR/manager with no clue how to run things.

It would be one thing if over the years, and years, and years...if he had come out saying things like, "Hey guys, we're really excited about our project, and we're doing the best we can with limited resources, and promise to deliver the best game we can."  .......or something along those lines.

What we get instead, are lies, lies, and more lies. 

Just several weeks ago, Tasos was spouting how they would never say a release date until they could promise it, and basically smack talked the rest of the game devs of the world, saying how they were sooo much better than them.

Then the promised 2008 release never arrived, the promised "early december" beta never arrived, the promised 22 January release never arrives.

The so called "trolls" called this out based off of the years of Tasos' BS and arrogance towards the community.

When questioned about the status of beta, which many many gamers and forum readers know is needed if for nothing else than stress testing, Tasos touted his "internal professional testers, AI bots, etc.", and even bragged about "hundreds of beta testers" when we all know it takes thousands.

The fans rallied to Tasos, backing him up.

Now he comes out, a week before the drop dead launch, and admits that they need more beta testing, more testers, and that the live testers have brought flaws to their attention that they need to fix.

Shortly before this, Tasos had stated that the game had been release ready for some time and they were fine tuning.

To make a long story only slightly longer...Tasos is pure and utter Bullshit.  If he wasn't so conniving, and so arrogant, and so misleading, treating the very fans who support him like crap, this wouldn't be such a big deal.

DF would do well to publicly denounce him and fire his ass.

I hope this enlightens you somewhat.

It's not so much the delays with the game, as the way they've totally mismanaged it.  It does not inspire confidence, and brings disasters like mourning and DnL to mind.

This is not a troll rant, this is observation of years spent following the development and release of MMO's.

For the record, I think the game will eventually release, but it won't be the Mecca that most of the hard core fan boi's are clamoring for.

Only have one eye, couldn't miss this coming kinda like Rosie...I mean, who didn't see it?

Darkfall...I ...

Although I am curious to read the follow ups on all those "get lost troll" threads...

Originally posted by Stradden

Originally posted by gatheris

absolutely hilarious

there are so many comments that could be made about the delay - and about the defense this site is giving aventurine (weird to say the least) - but the reasons given are so funny and the anticipation of all the fanboi comments prevent me from making the cohesive statement i would like to

i do know one thing - i'll be buying some popcorn on the way home from work tonight - it is going to be extraordinarily delicious

 

I wouldn't call it defense. I would call it benefit of the doubt.

Like I said in the article, I do think that there is some cause for concern and certainly there are questions to be asked... but when other companies announce delays... even weird ones... we don't often run off screaming vaporware, either.

I'm just saying, perspective is key.

So (if you want to maintain credibility?) you will ask those questions.

If Closed Beta is in progress then you should be able to secure a spot for an MMORPG.com Staffer?

Be up front with Aventurine: Something like this
"We want to see that Darkfall is genuine.  We owe it to our members / readers.
If we don't see something we will de-list your game until we see something solid."

Seriously Stradden, this site will be left with no credibility if this turns out to be a massive fraud.
CYA.  (Cover Your Arse)

And FYI - I hope Darkfall IS genuine and delivers on its promises.  But I would hate to see players get scammed (again?).  Many MMORPGers are still just kids.
Come on MMORPG.com - for the kids?

Originally posted by Ciano

What is with the rampant hatred of Darkfall? It hasn't even come out yet and there are quite a few people who would love to see it fail? You stated that you or WOW players were not afraid of Darkfall. If you are not afraid of it then why do you hate it so much?

I don't think I have ever seen a game trashed so much before it's release. I've seen this kind of hype if not more, but never this much controversy.

Here's an idea. Read the goddamned threads. Every reason has been explained, in detail and triplicate, why the controversy exist.

 I have only one short thing to say.

People who are going to pre-order Darkfall right now, deserve to be scammed. And I won't feel a single pitty with them, when they find out end of February.

After all that Tasos has said and promissed the past years up till even a couple days ago (TTH interview anyone?)...

...then a big red flashing alarm should go off by any sane person I would think.

Cheers

"unprepared"

Well, at lease they admit it thats all I can say.

But does back up my philosaphy that one shouldnt be so quick to purchase an MMO at launch....  This Darkfall has a familiar scent of a Vangaurd release.

you guys are all right at this point.  i've been a fool believing in darkfall.  it gave me false hope, i guess i just needed something to look forward to, but clearly this is not it.  I guess i'm just an impatient person that is just looking for the "next big thing". 

I agree with the sentiments that those that pay for a pre-order deserve to get scammed.

If you haven't got alarm bells ringing at this stage then I worry about your future in life.

All that is happening now is damage control. Tasos realises that if they let people play a free trial they are going to see the game for the shambles it is, and not purchase the full version. By introducing a pre-order they are at least going to recoup some cash from those who are gullible enough to pay for it. That way, when the true horror of what is behind the curtain is revealed, it will be too late.

Originally posted by Laurann

Jon,

You do know that the publisher for Darkfall has a "President" named Dan Antonescu? I'm sure you are fully aware of this. The publisher also works locally in the exact same office/apartment as Adventurine, and the two other people working there.

How about some in depth journalism regarding Darkfall you tweeb (and I'm being nice here because we've met, and I think overall your a good guy) and write something besides blind conjecture to throw out to the masses... Do some worth while journalism on the industry as a whole, and blow these little pimply faced, lying turds off the face of the development map.

These are the same types of kids who have duped GOOD publishers, and made it hard for both you and I to secure funding for legitimate projects. These types of little startups with all their bullshit are one of the big reasons games like Wish, Realm, and quite a few others in development will never hit the street.

People often wonder why I'm so passionate about voicing an opinion about a particular company, game, or standard. The reason is quite simple, I've chewed on the same dirt you have Jon, and I've done so from the beginning. I'm never incorrect in any assumption I've made regarding any mmorpg project, and get quite pissed when I see little twerps like adventurine taking advantage of 1)marketspace 2)publishers 3)fans.

Especially the fans. 

Especially when the project is complete and utter BS. So some bullshit artists string a potential investor/publisher along for quite some time, along with the fans, who back them, put time, energy and motion behind them, and then everyone gets tossed on their face. Ever wonder why mmo players are jaded? Publishers?

Jon, helping spin anything behind "Adventurine" as positive, without having FACTS, and integrity as both a journalist and publisher of material for masses of people is not in good character for you. Like I said, i think your a good guy. Go prove it.

When I worked with Keith on VG, our number one priority with our work was always the fans, no matter how hard Jeff or MS tried to fuck it up.   

I know we have someone in Greece who posts on the mmorpg forums, and I'll bet he even has a digital camera.  Now if you are worried about driving off revenue from mmorpg by other publishers who think you are out to "screw" some company, don't, only the illegitimate pubs/devs will have a problem with it.

I'll bet Adventurine will have a HUGE problem with it. Thank goodness they are in Greece, have no capitol, and no international attornies eh? 

Go get em tiger, prove me wrong!

 

I don't think you made alot of sense.

What are you trying to communicate? That their office is fake? Game is fake? Company is fake?

You end with prove me wrong. What are you saying?

Who are you?

Jon Wood,

Mabye I am  nitpicking here ;-) but, you state that the Pre-orders will give you presidens in the Trial, this is untrue. The trial starts jan 22nd and no preorders will be taken before mid february.

So in short of letting EVERYONE sample the game for free in the trial, witch was their inital promise, there will be plenty of players that will be able to try the game before they buy. The reason for not letting everyone in, is given and obvious: They never anticipated this much hype, and the high level of interest.

Tasos even gives a rather epic quote on that saying "Hype surrounding Darkfall is huge right now, despite our best efforts"

Thanks

Originally posted by dark-merlin

Dan Antonescu HAS ABSOLUTELY NOTHING TO DO WITH DARKFALL

 

I REPEAT - STOP TROLLING - DAN ANTONESCU HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH DARKFALL ONLINE

 

He is Romanian and thats where he's staying, he's not with Aventurine or Audiovisual (the publisher). They are in Greece, Mourning was Developed in Romania, totally different places with different people

 

god you people are so impossibly gullible, like little children

 

I might aswell state that Osama Bin Laden is the fiancial advisor and  you people would copy/paste this all over the forums...

 

mmorpg.com really has one of the most amazing (not in a good way) communities

 

lol

ths is funny... that guy was just a hired game designer.. the mis information on the internets is amazing.

anyway, if you've never seen mourning b4.. you can actually D/L a part of the game world here..

http://abyssalengine.com/download.html

it' was actually quite good looking..  another prime example though.. of a start-up company that bit off way more than they could chew..  ala DF...

This game smells the same as Dark and light. A lot of promises, a lot of strange things happening. Anyone trusting this company deserves to get scammed out of their money. Not saying i don't hope this game will be released (afterall the mmorpg-market can use a good kick in the nuts with all the cookie-cutter games being released) but this whole thing smells like a big scam.

Originally posted by Laurann

Jon,

You do know that the publisher for Darkfall has a "President" named Dan Antonescu? I'm sure you are fully aware of this. The publisher also works locally in the exact same office/apartment as Adventurine, and the two other people working there.

How about some in depth journalism regarding Darkfall you tweeb (and I'm being nice here because we've met, and I think overall your a good guy) and write something besides blind conjecture to throw out to the masses... Do some worth while journalism on the industry as a whole, and blow these little pimply faced, lying turds off the face of the development map.

These are the same types of kids who have duped GOOD publishers, and made it hard for both you and I to secure funding for legitimate projects. These types of little startups with all their bullshit are one of the big reasons games like Wish, Realm, and quite a few others in development will never hit the street.

People often wonder why I'm so passionate about voicing an opinion about a particular company, game, or standard. The reason is quite simple, I've chewed on the same dirt you have Jon, and I've done so from the beginning. I'm never incorrect in any assumption I've made regarding any mmorpg project, and get quite pissed when I see little twerps like adventurine taking advantage of 1)marketspace 2)publishers 3)fans.

Especially the fans. 

Especially when the project is complete and utter BS. So some bullshit artists string a potential investor/publisher along for quite some time, along with the fans, who back them, put time, energy and motion behind them, and then everyone gets tossed on their face. Ever wonder why mmo players are jaded? Publishers?

Jon, helping spin anything behind "Adventurine" as positive, without having FACTS, and integrity as both a journalist and publisher of material for masses of people is not in good character for you. Like I said, i think your a good guy. Go prove it.

When I worked with Keith on VG, our number one priority with our work was always the fans, no matter how hard Jeff or MS tried to fuck it up.   

I know we have someone in Greece who posts on the mmorpg forums, and I'll bet he even has a digital camera.  Now if you are worried about driving off revenue from mmorpg by other publishers who think you are out to "screw" some company, don't, only the illegitimate pubs/devs will have a problem with it.

I'll bet Adventurine will have a HUGE problem with it. Thank goodness they are in Greece, have no capitol, and no international attornies eh? 

Go get em tiger, prove me wrong!

 

This must be Teedle, the stalker from Mourning.

Either way, it's AVenturine NOT ADventurine, get YOUR FACTS STRAIGHT

"A pre-order will be made available mid-February."

"The pre-orders are necessary so that we can have some measure of the demand."

I swear, this made my skin crawl as i read it... Now they turn around 180 and "pre-order will be made available." Not a big deal... if the soon-to-be customers would have the opportunity to test the game before buying as the devs "were aiming for," now it seems only a few will be let in on the trial.

A piece of advice for everyone whos dying to play this game: wait for the NUMEROUS "trial" leaks to come soon after the 22nd, as they let in a whole bunch of  testers whos not "professionals." And if theres no additional leaks (or only a few, that are all praising the game) by the time they want your credit card number..? RUN fOR THE HILLS!

Oh and this turn of events doesnt surprise me a bit...

There are several reasons why this MMO is in a particular situation, I believe, that is special. More so over that this company is a small, independent company. Other larger MMO companies have yet to face this special circumstance. Darkfall is being released after huge and numerous upsets to the community through some especially unique MMOs. I am not going to name any names but the community believed in these games and have had "egg", so to speak, thrown in their faces, not once, but several times over the past 2 years. Now another promise has risen with all the tall tale signs of before. But can we blame a company for what they are doing? Do we press forward in optimism in a hope that one day an MMO company does speak the truth or do we fall back to our past experiences and flag this as suspicious and reserve ourselves?

Normally I do not like to ask these types questions but I think we are in exceptional times. We need to ask ourselves if we should continue to give faith to companies, no matter how small or large, or do we need to pull back our expectations for future generations. I, myself, am going to sit back on this one and not lure myself into something once again like in the past. But I am still optimistic about the future, just more cautious in my approach.

Hopefully this year will be a turning point in our quest for entertainment in a relatively new but established frontier in gaming. I ask each and everyone of you to ask yourself the same question before making your move.

It doesn't matter what the reason.... This announcement is like Christmas in January for all of the Darkfall trolls.

I don't particularly care; let it come out when it is ready. Too much gets rushed out the door for the wrong reasons. Then again, it is quite interesting to see some of the lack of testing/development complete comments regarding the delay, which of course is a direct contradiction to what the development team has been feeding us for some time now.

My eyes are free from the wool, thank you very much.

OMG this is collector: Paste copy

**************************************

"Sorry. But, you can't have that map. The information of who is entitled to one must be lost by now. Stop making bad public relations for Dark and Light. It is a nice and visionary title. It deserves to be supported a little bit instead for all the things it did so well. A map is insignificant. The best gift would be a re-launch with Mafate 2.0. :)"

 ****************************************

Darkfall ?
NOOOOO
Dark and Light forums (HERE)

SAME FANBOYS . SAME PEOPLE. 

http://www.mmorpg.com/discussion2.cfm/post/2575793#2575793

 Yeah, DFO forums = DnL forums now.

 TAKE CARE.TAKE CARE.

Cautious optimism is probably the best path to take on this game.
I wouldn't be pre-ordering anything, or handing my money over, though, before I've played the game.

It sounds like a good game, in theory.

In theory communism works.

In theory...

This game simply has far too little actual gameplay shown, and far too little specific, official, and already made details released to the public.

Hell, in the gameplay videos, I still have yet to see a UI. Where the hell is my UI? Are those characters bots? Players? I only see like a maximum of about 6 characters on one screen.

God damn it, get some freaking beta testers in, let them PLAY your damn game and tell the world how good or bad it is. If nothing else, it would get them some credibility.

But meh, they're not gonna listen to me... and I can't possibly flame enough to kill the trolls.

You know... 'cause you can't kill them without fire.

And YA DFO is ready for launch no doubt

http://www.aventurine.gr/jobs.html (always on the Aventurine website: they always need help)

paste copy from Aventurine SA website

"Lead Quality Assurance Manager:
Computer Games Industry

Overview:
Aventurine S.A. is looking for a Lead Quality Assurance Manager for our highly anticipated MMORPG Darkfall Online. (www.darkfallonline.com)

Responsibilities:
Head the QA department.

Responsible for testing of the game:
• Prepare the Game Test Plan.
• Check / Review / Manage the Test Cases document.
• Develop, implement and refine test plans.
• Act as the single point of contact between Development and Testers for iterations, testing and deployment activities.
• Track and report upon testing activities, including testing results, test case coverage, required resources, defects discovered and their status, performance baselines, etc..
• Keep track of the new requirements from the Developers.
• Ensure content and structure of all Testing documents / artifacts is documented and maintained.

Responsible for managing bug reports for the game:
• Assign bug reports to correct developer
• Sort/Remove bug reports
• Refine bug reports/Create exact reproducible scenarios for bugs
• Manage temporary workaround methods

Responsible for co-managing the beta process of the game:
• Co-Schedule beta process and milestones for testing
• Create daily/weekly reports on testing

Responsible for managing the public web page of known bugs/workarounds and the (external) testers.

Responsible for co-managing the post-release testing cycles of the game.

Requirements:
• Extreme work ethic.
• Self motivated.
• Passionate about testing Darkfall.
• The ability to go above and beyond responsibility.
• Good Technical Computer Knowledge.
• Fluent in English, both written and oral.

We Offer:
• Competitive salary and bonus.
• A good working environment in Halandri Attikis.

Send your CV (in English) and relevant info at: jobs@aventurine.gr

----------------------------------------------------

Game Programmer:
Computer Games Industry

Overview:
Aventurine S.A. is looking for a senior game logic programmer for our highly anticipated MMORPG Darkfall Online.(www.darkfallonline.com)
The position requires you to implement gameplay features and system features in Java.

Responsibilities:
• Implement new gamelogic features both on Server and Client in our custom gamelogic framework.
• Test, debug and optimize new and existing features.
• Work closely with other Gamelogic programmers.

Requirements:
• Computer Science, or related degree.
• Excellent Java skills.
• Excellent Problem solving and debugging skills.
• Good knowledge of O.O. design.
• Understanding of server/client architectures.
• Excellent Team Working skills.
• Ability to work under pressure within a multidisciplinary team.
• Fluent in English, both written and oral.

We Offer
• Competitive salary and bonus.
• A good working environment in Halandri Attikis.

Send your CV (in English) and relevant info at: jobs@aventurine.gr

bottom"

Send your CV they need help since.. Howw.. a long long time...

I getting flash backs of my SoG pre order.. Settlers of Darkfall?  hehehehe