well i spent the last two months leveling my wow character to 80 . but upon reaching it i realised how awful the pvp side of the the game is now . the class imbalances are at thier worst even . the lag in wintersgrasp is as bad as it was in alterac vally on av weekends and thier is next to nobody doing the bgs . while warcraft does a lot of things better ,warhammer offers far superior pvp at the moment . i m not saying this will be the status quo ,i m sure blizzard will see that theres some really bad mistakes being made and will sort them out  . still that said theres a window of oppertunity now for warhammer . it needs to offer a free trial . i know a lot of people want to try it or return to it  to see what its like now . ah well its down to mythic now to do the smart thing . if they dont pull thier finger out they deserve to lose money and warhammer will end up as another could have been .

There are 7-day Recruit-a-Friend trials for now and they said that "real" free trials are "coming soon". I agree though, the game has improved and will continue to improve so it will not only give new people a chance to try the game, but people who quit after the first month too.

I wouldnt really know because i never was able to play WAR (need a new computer, this one is too slow), but i heard that WAR has horrible PvE

So WAR has bad PvE and in your openion WoW has bad PvP...

i guess its just what you like more, untill somebody makes a game with good PvP and PvE

GW2 anyone?

or possibly SWTOR

Yes, but Warhammer Online has no combat system to fall back on. I reluctant to leave WoW back in the day because I liked how combat was. WAR lacks fluid combat and any type of finesse.

Originally posted by luckypotato

I wouldnt really know because i never was able to play WAR (need a new computer, this one is too slow), but i heard that WAR has horrible PvE

To be honest I find the questing in WAR much more enjoyable than WoW's questing. The dungeons I've been to are generally on par with WoW's dungeon content as well, though I find the concept of WAR's open dungeons more appealing. WoW generally does a lot more raid content, which is great if you like that stuff, but I always disliked raiding as raid schedules took the fun out of the game for me.

One difference in WAR vs WoW questing that some might not like is that WAR's feels even more railroaded than WoW's does, though I can see both good and bad sides of this. Personally I have no problems with it, though.

I love getting to read little bits of lore as you explore the world, as well.

OP:

The individual class imbalance in Wow you speak about is trivial to what you will see in War.

Wow has the results of the arena ratings to warn the developpers there is a problem with one class when it drops of the top 100 rated world PvP teams..

I laugh when I see Wow players complain about 0.5% this or 1% that of some stat or spell in the tuning of class interactions.

I hope you try it out yourself, so you can see that games which don't have these data don't even know about individual class balances.

War is "group balanced", not because it means anything, they simply don't have the (arena) data to analyse the interaction between classes on a micro scale.

So War is balanced because Mythic says so. No data available to its gamers. Everyone happy.

And a big dent in further polishment of course.

Even if we assume that you're right about WAR having better PvP than WoW, "better PvP than WoW" isn't much of an endorsement. 

Offering a few trial a free now isn't the best idea i've seen considering how messed up the end game is.

Mythic needs to do more to make RVR worthwile...it is still a boring Grindfest and endgame is basically Trading Keeps.  What it all boils down to is counterstrike with swords...and a monthly fee. There is tons of potential and this game could certianly be a contender but Mythic needs to stop saying WAR is everywhere because it isn't, and start fixing what is broken and boring.

Originally posted by todeswulf

Mythic needs to do more to make RVR worthwile...it is still a boring Grindfest and endgame is basically Trading Keeps.  What it all boils down to is counterstrike with swords...and a monthly fee. There is tons of potential and this game could certianly be a contender but Mythic needs to stop saying WAR is everywhere because it isn't, and start fixing what is broken and boring.

I think the word "worthwhile" is the entire problem.  That is all Mythic thinks about for it so they add loot drops and inflence and any other ay to provide a carrot.

What people really want is some meat on the mechanics themselves.  It would even be fine if it was contrived and not super "real" or whatever.  People are not asking for EvE online.  They just don't want a cardboard cut out merry go roudn keep trading.  And they want more depth than just a series of fights.

If there is a fight at place X it would be good if a fight at place Y had some bearing on the other fight.  If you capture a keep it would be cool if you then had some tangible usable advantage.  In medieval times a keep/castle in an area meant there was a standing mobile military force in that area that was capable of operating out of a safehaven.  That means they could mouint a devastating and quick strike against anything within a number of miles and retreat to the keep wihout needing to be burdened with a long campaign.  Thus most likely sustaining minmal losses, while inflicting heavy losses and able to do so indefinitely.  Whereas the force in that land would take bad losses and have a few months at most to do whatever it needs to do.

The keep owners would be fresh, well-fed, knowledgeable of the land and something any invading force had to take into serious consideration.  If you invaded an area with a keep with good defenders.  You would have to take serious consideration of the OFFENSIVE abilities of them.   A keep in real life was a method of severely punishing any invading force.  You had no need of fighting a sustained engangement and could severely punish the force that is out in the open.

WAR could take away every loot drop from keep lords (and maybe keep influence) and if their keeps somehow worked like a real medieval keep I bet the player-base would be raving about them instead.

Keep are just capture the flag.  They are not what they should be.  And even people who know very little about the hostry of warfare understand its kind of a farce and not the way it should be.  Even if they don't know what it really should be or was.

Keeps granted control of lands by giving the owners the ability to violently inflict massive losses with much less losses on their part and the ability to entrench.  WAR keeps grant control of a place by giving you some kind of nebulous victory point that work like shit anyway and ability to entrench.

The only real similarlity they have is entrenchment.  The cotnrol part is a complete fiction.  Taht does not mean they should remove VP for the campaign.  But it means they have coompletely abstract out what makes keeps interesting.  Thus the "war" is a farce because all the important parts of the WAR are captured by VP instead of player action.

They abstracted way too much out.

Warhammer PVP is fine for a relatively non-intensive month or two. After that it fades fast...

Originally posted by NightbladeX1

Yes, but Warhammer Online has no combat system to fall back on. I reluctant to leave WoW back in the day because I liked how combat was. WAR lacks fluid combat and any type of finesse.

lol ! seriously where do you guys come up with this crap?

What good would I free trial do? I quit the game a few weeks ago... the PvP you speak of is mostly ocurring in Tier4, a free trial wouldn't even see that. A free trial would be endessly grinding scenarios in the hopes of someday reaching Tier4 and actually seeing open-world PvP(actually RvR). I am tired of running a hamster-wheel for unimaginative game developers so I can reach end-game where it will actually be fun.

At 36 and up I hear it is great.... but I'll be damned if I am going to spend hours and hours polishing that turd in the hopes that there is a diamond underneath.

MMO's should be fun from Day 1.

Originally posted by markyturnip

Warhammer PVP is fine for a relatively non-intensive month or two. After that it fades fast...

I tend to agree, the thing that I think made me stop playing is in WAR there was no end game to speak of. That is what makes WoW so appealling is the loads of stuff to do after max level.

---

Originally posted by dterry

 
MMO's should be fun from Day 1.

---

It is. Roll a toon on Badlands server (Order side if you want an exact copy of what I did). I was able to ORvR by level 4. Scenarios popped so fast I made it to level 8 in a single night doing nothing but PvP. There was tons of action there. I actually rerolled another character in T1 rather than keep going.

i tend to agree with most of the comments i ve seen in these forums . warhammer is nt a game i would want to play month after month its pve side is lacking at present and really does needs to be looked at . warcraft used to have far better pvp but currently it really is a shambles . i still think wow offers an amazing pve endgame and its worth playing for that still . i ll definatly return to it at some  point again its just at the moment the issues of massive class imbalances and lag  really need to be addressed . pvp in warcraft is essentially broken at present . i still think warhammer could cash in on this fact at least in the short term .

Originally posted by NightbladeX1

Yes, but Warhammer Online has no combat system to fall back on. I reluctant to leave WoW back in the day because I liked how combat was. WAR lacks fluid combat and any type of finesse.

No kidding you cannot even compare the two.. I wanted to like Warhammer since I will never go back to WOW (due to the twinking and arena crap).. But I just cannot get pass the fact that the combat sucks compared to WOW or even a game like City of Heros/Villians.

Seriously these classes just feel freaking imcomplete and the pace is way to freaking slow.  Add the slow combat to the server lag and the fact that all the NA servers are in Virgina (some people will  get better pings then others on the other side of the country) and you just have a horrible setup.

People can say what they want about WOW but there classes are actually fun to play and 20 times more complete then Warhammer IMO..   I think thats another reason WAR never really made a splash in the MMO market.

Warhammer not that good, they also need a server that doesnt fall over when u have more than 10 people fighting, the worst game for optimising hardware ive ever seen

If they had a trial i dont think that many would subscribe after it

hindi rin..

Originally posted by Thestache

Originally posted by markyturnip

Warhammer PVP is fine for a relatively non-intensive month or two. After that it fades fast...

 

I tend to agree, the thing that I think made me stop playing is in WAR there was no end game to speak of. That is what makes WoW so appealling is the loads of stuff to do after max level.

are fucking serious? the problem for me was no tier 3, only real dungeon for tier 3 is gunbad, but in tier 4 you have bastaion stairs, warpblade, lost vale, keep raids (though the main problem for me is in tier 4 keeps change so after go back and forth that it gets tired of the keep swapping). lairs, the endless amount of chap 20~24 pqs which some are hard.




as for the PvE side lacking, you guys need to explore there is so much shit there, i am trying to go through all the zones again and complete everything, what about the hidden dungeon in the orc area, the lair behind the waterfall in empire zone, the 3 diffrent lairs in the highelf/dark elf areas, the secret champ and her mobs that you get unlocks from besides from the lairs, the diffrent easter eggs and quest which are at least 8 in each srating area and all of this is in the tier 1.

War's PvP is far Superiour, which is why I am going back to it... since I am trying to turn into a Casual Gamer and play less so a Mainly PvP game suites me alot better.   It is true the PvE isn't a neat and clean... but I think it could be equal if they put a bit of effort in Fixing it.

One of the Largest things that disturb me in this game is just how hard Solo PvP can be.... I mean I can be nearly Endless.... Also this applies for group PvP since everything but actual Squishy Classes Drop at a Rate that is understandable.  Main reason last class I rolled was a Sorc, I like big boom.... booooooommmm then I see a massive chunk of their hp missing =).... Only issue since I am Just getting back into the game alot of people are past T2, T3 etc... and to play well as a Sorc you really need to play with a Guild. 

Originally posted by Tinybina

Originally posted by NightbladeX1

Yes, but Warhammer Online has no combat system to fall back on. I reluctant to leave WoW back in the day because I liked how combat was. WAR lacks fluid combat and any type of finesse.

 

Seriously these classes just feel freaking imcomplete and the pace is way to freaking slow.  Add the slow combat to the server lag and the fact that all the NA servers are in Virgina (some people will  get better pings then others on the other side of the country) and you just have a horrible setup.

People can say what they want about WOW but there classes are actually fun to play and 20 times more complete then Warhammer IMO..   I think thats another reason WAR never really made a splash in the MMO market.

Ping times haven't made a difference since the days of Ultima Online. It makes no difference in WAR.

In fact, the games are largely apples-and-oranges.

A few classes need tweaks -- but unlike WoW, WAR is not balanced on a PvE, 1-on-1 basis. Careers in WAR are designed in such a way that they're strong against certain types and weak against others, rock-paper-scissors style. From the ground-up, WAR was built to be functional in PvP.

That is why WoW's PvP sucks so badly by comparison.

There ARE problems with the combat in RvR though. Mostly it's tied to massive Crowd Control abilities, especially by Destruction classes in Tier 4, where my Swordmaster can be literally disabled for 20 seconds or more.

WAR was never destined to be a WoW-killer -- that was a fantasy thought up by people here and elsewhere. What it does is cater to the group of MMO gamers who realize how horrible WoW's PvP is, are bored with fighting against NPCs endlessly,  and want to play something less dependent on gear for less than 4 hours a night.

I don't *want* the rest of the WoW community in WAR. Their whining would ruin it.

Originally posted by grimmbot

There ARE problems with the combat in RvR though. Mostly it's tied to massive Crowd Control abilities, especially by Destruction classes in Tier 4, where my Swordmaster can be literally disabled for 20 seconds or more.

WAR was never destined to be a WoW-killer -- that was a fantasy thought up by people here and elsewhere. What it does is cater to the group of MMO gamers who realize how horrible WoW's PvP is, are bored with fighting against NPCs endlessly,  and want to play something less dependent on gear for less than 4 hours a night.

I don't *want* the rest of the WoW community in WAR. Their whining would ruin it.

Well from everything I have seen gear does help make a difference in WAR as well. Maybe not as much, but I've never seen an MMO where gear didn't matter.  So although I get your point that gear in tiers 1-3 might not be the deciding factor, from my tastes in tier 4 it is. Especially with the King scenarios the way people are talking.

As for the wow crowd. I played WoW for about two weeks and the crowd was horrible. I hated them, but that was also about 2 years ago as well. Most of the people I've met or talked that have come from WoW have been very pleasant and not rude at all. If anything, they have been very curious about the RvR aspects of Warhammer. From what I have gathered, people who left WoW to try WaR had a desire to find a game with more depth to pvp and have grown as players to expecting more than just a nice pretty PvE environment. I applaud them for that. You should never crucify someone for where they started, but how they handle themselves in their journey imo.

Although there are plenty of asshats, I cannot attach a label to all of WoW players because a large portion are bad. I only hope that the WoW players who have come to WAR start to demand more from companies developing and releasing MMO's. It's the only way we'll get better products instead of these instancing, cookie cutter games with new avatars.

i tend to agree greenie . even though war is nt perfect there is some great potential here . personally i think they need to merge servers . i really enjoy the pvp in warhammer and in general they do seam like a nice crowd compared to warcraft . wow really is like a school yeard at times which is essentially what it is . i ve been quite lucky on my horde character there and i ve managed to get into a nice friendly mature guild i cant say the same for my alliance character . lord of the rings in my opinion has a friendly atmosphere to it as well .

Originally posted by googajoob7

i tend to agree greenie . even though war is nt perfect there is some great potential here . personally i think they need to merge servers . i really enjoy the pvp in warhammer and in general they do seam like a nice crowd compared to warcraft . wow really is like a school yeard at times which is essentially what it is . i ve been quite lucky on my horde character there and i ve managed to get into a nice friendly mature guild i cant say the same for my alliance character . lord of the rings in my opinion has a friendly atmosphere to it as well .

Right now I'm jumping between EvE and the Lotr free trial. Although I liked the classes in WAR much more than any game not named daoc, I don't like the pvp. Sometimes the scenarios were really fun, but most of the time they're just bleh. The ORvR is horrible which I attribute more to the world design and the core design of the game being made around scenarios pre-beta tester strike. You could put all DaoC mechanics and classes in WaR and the RvR would still be horrible due to crappy world design for RvR purposes.

 Disables, Knockbacks, Knockdowns should all be removed from the game. DaoC's CC was perfect imo.

I just don't understand how companies can't make a game that is great.  Take DaoC mechanics and RvR, WoW questing and leveling, LotR world designs and graphics and you'd have one helluva good game.

I am hoping Darkfall delivers but my expectations are not high. So tired of being let down.