RMT is a trend, a fad, nothing more.  It'll become more hybrid or transparent ( "char transfer, name change, class change") without the item mall as it is today.  Devs have it about right, right now.   The developers who jump head first into the pool will be the ones who end up losing bigtime, probably leaving MMOs all together, after they knock themselves out with their own greed and stupidity.

Originally posted by Glamis

There is nothing wrong with microtransactions or virtual good sales.

 

The problem is when they are combined with subscriptions. Burning the candle from both ends is just double dipping (how's that for a mixed metaphor?).

 

yes there is, but tbh I can't be bothered to answer you any deeper then that as to why there is because you havent bothered to explain why you think there isnt.

But, anyhow, you are wrong.

So basically the path to attaining items and levels is so boring and unfulfilling  that SOE thinks players would rather pay for that stuff than play for it.  Pathetic!

If SOE would not touch their games so much they would be better. The Star Wars Galaxies and Vanguard games were better off without SOE, maybe if they would say ok make this game but we will not bother you ann so your game will not be so bad, but instead they Help too much and game does not turn out so good anymore.

Originally posted by Kieth75

If SOE would not touch their games so much they would be better. The Star Wars Galaxies and Vanguard games were better off without SOE, maybe if they would say ok make this game but we will not bother you ann so your game will not be so bad, but instead they Help too much and game does not turn out so good anymore.

Um what... Vanguard?  I'll jump on your bandwagon for SWG but Vanguard?

Vanguard was so bad that the changes SOE did make = a better game.

So that one kinda escapes my ability to zerg on!

Personally the issue I see is that people are put into positions they are not qualified for... don't have the experience or personality for... and screw things up, alienate the player base and aren't dealt with (aka fired).

Aeralik on the EQ2 team is a prime example of someone with absolutely no clue on any level to be in game development or to even post on a forum with a "red name".  The best thing they could do for EQ2 at this point is to at least revoke his posting ability on forums and I would suggest sending him to a special corner office to work on a project that will never be seen by human kind.

Chris Cao would be another prime example... take part in the screw up that was the NGE then go over to DC Universe.. so that SOE can wonder why that fails.  suggestion same as Aeralik.  He also has an extreme ability to piss off people with comments even less intellegent than Aeralik.

I would go so far as to say 90% of the people on mmorpg.com could do a better job than either of these guys... and if you think about it.. that really is saying something.

I can understand that talented people don't want to work for them...

But you couldn't do much worse than those two and its not that hard to find quite a few more but those two come to mind right off.

This is why the games are changed for the worst.. the people changing them have no friggin clue what they are doing.  Change doesn't have to be bad.. but in this case it mostly works out that way and for obvious reasons.

Reading Aeralik's post about class changes in EQ2 over the last year or so has been one of the most entertaining / head shaking events of my life.

Originally posted by vesavius

Originally posted by jayanti

 Sorry to inject a small amount of realism into your obviously well researched post, but SOE is only asking for a subscription. But, if you want to level an alt quicker with an hour XP boost, or have a some fluff hat with no stats, you can buy it for a couple of cents. Or don't. Theres no "YOU HAVE TO DO THIS OMFGARGHHH!!!one!!".

This gives you zero advantage over anyone else, and has been used by other games to good effect. Hell, Ultima Online have been selling high level boosted characters for years!!! All SOE is doing is selling some xp boosts, which, for people who dont play 24 hours a day due to a little thing called work, is actually quite helpful as you can keep up with friends. 

 

 

God, here we go again.

• SOE is asking for a sub (essential), game/ expansion purchase (essential), Station Players extras (fluff, but should be part of a basic service), LoN purchases (fluff), and MT (a mixture). This is a lot of player 'investment' in a game that could be profitable on the original EQ model.
• SOE's MT sells xp/ mana potions to aid faster levelling and armour packages that are solid gear. These are not fluff and effect the core progression systems in these games. A player paying to use xp potions has a BIG advantage over a player choosing not to.
• If my guild usues these potions, as an example, then I will have to as well to keep with them. This removes the illusion of 'choice' that mst pro-MT people have. Once MT is in a game in truth all real choice vanishes, as demonstrated by your 'to keep up with friends' statement.
• The fact that you are paying now to level as a way of 'keeping up with friends' is EXACTLY how MT companies make money off you. In a game with alts and mentoring, these should never be required, but they know how easy a gaming addiciton is to exploit, and exploit it they will.
• Plenty of people that succeed honestly in these games work. They just succeed over a longer period of time then the hardcore levellers.
• MT is sold on the greed of the casual gamer, who wants the same as some others around him NOW, rather then waiting to put in the effort and gain the knowledge to win it in game.
• MT destroys the very core elements that makes games games. It turns MMORPG into a just a commercial virtual environment, the same as Sony's PS3 Home is. In turn, lazy instant gratification gamers are enabling them to do this, and so are themselves killing games.
• Despite the spin and propaganda given out by the big dev corps, MT benefits noone but them. Not the games, and not the gamer. They are more profitable then (the already profitable) sub model and, therefore, cost you as a player more. Those extra profits can only come from YOU. Think about that. They rely on your gaming addiciton to slowly bleed your money from your wallet in small enoug drops so you don't notice anything until it's too late.

Enough realism for you?

Pay to Exist vs Play to Achieve. I want to Play to Achieve.

Soild armor .... what are you talking about all the armor (in EQ2) has "0" stats... its all looks. The potions they have giving out for free for sometime now ( depending on how old your account is) i know i have at least 12 exp and 12 TS bottles collecting dust in my bank.

On the bright side, perhaps the few people who were hanging onto the hope of Sony redemption might move on to more respectable games.

Originally posted by vesavius

Originally posted by Glamis

There is nothing wrong with microtransactions or virtual good sales.

 

The problem is when they are combined with subscriptions. Burning the candle from both ends is just double dipping (how's that for a mixed metaphor?).

 

 

yes there is, but tbh I can't be bothered to answer you any deeper then that as to why there is because you havent bothered to explain why you think there isnt.

But, anyhow, you are wrong.

I'm sure Glamis doesn't have a good line of reasoning.  I think hes just trying to be a dick, like walking into a cancer ward and going "I like cancer, there's nothing wrong with it.  Now having cancer AND aids, that would suck."

Maybe Glamis can share another one of his hobbies with us, so we can all go out and campaign for it to cost alot more while simultaniously ruining whatever made it fun in the first place.

Originally posted by Proserpine

I'm sure Glamis doesn't have a good line of reasoning.  I think hes just trying to be a dick, like walking into a cancer ward and going "I like cancer, there's nothing wrong with it.  Now having cancer AND aids, that would suck.

Yah, comparing microtransactions with cancer; that's entirely relevant and not at all silly.

Originally posted by Ilvaldyr

Originally posted by Proserpine

I'm sure Glamis doesn't have a good line of reasoning.  I think hes just trying to be a dick, like walking into a cancer ward and going "I like cancer, there's nothing wrong with it.  Now having cancer AND aids, that would suck.

Yah, comparing microtransactions with cancer; that's entirely relevant and not at all silly.

Comparison is the action , not the content.

some of ya people are way to "political correct" and thin skinned.

Heck, I was accused and flamed for bringing the holocaust into a discussion cuz I used a rewritten poem written by a holocaust victim as part of a post....

Heck, with people like "you", I shouldnt dare to mention my grampa and what he'd do or call the spade, cuz he was in a work camp during the war... Cuz ya know, I would be comparing slave labour to "games" if I used my grandpa as example then

Originally posted by Nocuma

Originally posted by vesavius

Originally posted by jayanti

 Sorry to inject a small amount of realism into your obviously well researched post, but SOE is only asking for a subscription. But, if you want to level an alt quicker with an hour XP boost, or have a some fluff hat with no stats, you can buy it for a couple of cents. Or don't. Theres no "YOU HAVE TO DO THIS OMFGARGHHH!!!one!!".

This gives you zero advantage over anyone else, and has been used by other games to good effect. Hell, Ultima Online have been selling high level boosted characters for years!!! All SOE is doing is selling some xp boosts, which, for people who dont play 24 hours a day due to a little thing called work, is actually quite helpful as you can keep up with friends. 

 

 

God, here we go again.

• SOE is asking for a sub (essential), game/ expansion purchase (essential), Station Players extras (fluff, but should be part of a basic service), LoN purchases (fluff), and MT (a mixture). This is a lot of player 'investment' in a game that could be profitable on the original EQ model.
• SOE's MT sells xp/ mana potions to aid faster levelling and armour packages that are solid gear. These are not fluff and effect the core progression systems in these games. A player paying to use xp potions has a BIG advantage over a player choosing not to.
• If my guild usues these potions, as an example, then I will have to as well to keep with them. This removes the illusion of 'choice' that mst pro-MT people have. Once MT is in a game in truth all real choice vanishes, as demonstrated by your 'to keep up with friends' statement.
• The fact that you are paying now to level as a way of 'keeping up with friends' is EXACTLY how MT companies make money off you. In a game with alts and mentoring, these should never be required, but they know how easy a gaming addiciton is to exploit, and exploit it they will.
• Plenty of people that succeed honestly in these games work. They just succeed over a longer period of time then the hardcore levellers.
• MT is sold on the greed of the casual gamer, who wants the same as some others around him NOW, rather then waiting to put in the effort and gain the knowledge to win it in game.
• MT destroys the very core elements that makes games games. It turns MMORPG into a just a commercial virtual environment, the same as Sony's PS3 Home is. In turn, lazy instant gratification gamers are enabling them to do this, and so are themselves killing games.
• Despite the spin and propaganda given out by the big dev corps, MT benefits noone but them. Not the games, and not the gamer. They are more profitable then (the already profitable) sub model and, therefore, cost you as a player more. Those extra profits can only come from YOU. Think about that. They rely on your gaming addiciton to slowly bleed your money from your wallet in small enoug drops so you don't notice anything until it's too late.

Enough realism for you?

Pay to Exist vs Play to Achieve. I want to Play to Achieve.

 

Soild armor .... what are you talking about all the armor (in EQ2) has "0" stats... its all looks. The potions they have giving out for free for sometime now ( depending on how old your account is) i know i have at least 12 exp and 12 TS bottles collecting dust in my bank.

I'm sorry, I wasnt clear.

By 'solid' I meant wearable visible gear that would have been given away/ sold as in game content before.

Sorry for any confusion, bad choice of wording.

Originally posted by wolfmann

Originally posted by Ilvaldyr

Originally posted by Proserpine

I'm sure Glamis doesn't have a good line of reasoning.  I think hes just trying to be a dick, like walking into a cancer ward and going "I like cancer, there's nothing wrong with it.  Now having cancer AND aids, that would suck.

Yah, comparing microtransactions with cancer; that's entirely relevant and not at all silly.

 

Comparison is the action , not the content.

some of ya people are way to "political correct" and thin skinned.

Heck, I was accused and flamed for bringing the holocaust into a discussion cuz I used a rewritten poem written by a holocaust victim as part of a post....

Heck, with people like "you", I shouldnt dare to mention my grampa and what he'd do or call the spade, cuz he was in a work camp during the war... Cuz ya know, I would be comparing slave labour to "games" if I used my grandpa as example then

I saw that, and yeah you were right then, as you are now.

People just run out of debate and have to attack on other fronts I guess.

Originally posted by Nadia

Originally posted by BaronJuJu

 I believe when they see that we were wiling to pay that and even more (2-4+ accounts for individuals) and were happy doing so they redeveloped it into RMT. However I do not think there will ever be a loud, unified voice to tell the gaming developers that enough is enough. We all may be gamers, but we are the only group I know of that disagrees with each other about damn near every aspect of the hobby we love.

I also agree with this rationale

some seasoned players may leave mmos altogether in disgust

but there will always be other players that don't mind being nickel and dimed

 

especially players new to MMO gaming

 

That's the reality of the market right now I suppose.  I still think there are enough rationale people that won't be suckered into micro games, and will head over to the non-micro games that are subscription based.  I always will.

 subs + microtransactions and "adventure packs" + buying a 50$ yearly expansion == too much for a standard game.

In the end it's just clutter. I much preferred EQ2 on release tbh.