Turbine effectively destroyed my two favourite IPs in the MMO market: D&D and Lord of the Rings. Either one could have been an incredible game, but they both feel fake and Turbine bastardised the feel of the world with ridiculous mechanics. The only thing I can praise them for is the RP gear slots in LOTRO. That was very clever, and they do deserve kudos for the idea; other games should follow suit.

But I tried desperately to like both of these games, and am even a founder of LOTRO, but they both feel *wrong.* They couldn’t carry the feel into the world, and they made bad games trying to change what already worked perfectly in D&D. Why would you change a system that has been developed over several decades? They are by far the kindest and most helpful in customer service, but their games, while polished (and launching without a single hitch that I saw) and gorgeous, they are just poor excuses for IP development.

Congrats to Turbine!! They are exceptionally good Devs and I'm glad they won.

Originally posted by silkakc

Congrats to Turbine!! They are exceptionally good Devs and I'm glad they won.

   I would have to agree, I would still be with them LOTRO if my business did not demand so much of my attention.  Gee , I wonder How SOE fared in this the award......Muahahahahaha < Nevemind.

Kudos to Turbine, you guys deserve it :).  I don't play any of your games at the moment, but Lotr is on my short list of games I'd like to try.  This recommendation, plus what friends tell me, bumps it to the top.

Congrats Turbine. Having experienced many MMO Studios, none compare with Turbine's excellent service.  The amount of free quality content alone puts them head and shoulders above all other studios.  Maybe some day players of certain other MMOs will realize that their studios are playing them for suckers, raking in money and giving little back. Their loss I guess.

Originally posted by todeswulf

Originally posted by Gameloading

 

It's not just my personal opinion, it's the opinion of many professional critics as well who are, unlike many voters on this website, not biased.

 

Yeah well it's biased if it's not the studio you gush over.

I look at your sig laugh my ass off  and dismiss your credibility.

Oh Smed...Smeeeedddddd!!!!  /smirk

If a person is currently paying for one game, they probably aren't experiencing the other and this is the case with most voters.

I dismissed my "Credibility"?  Awww, a SOE hater says I lack credibility, I'll be crying myself to sleept tonight.

Originally posted by Ozmodan

Originally posted by Gameloading

Originally posted by LordAdder

Originally posted by Gameloading

Can't say I really agree with it. Imho, Lotro has never really justified it's existance.  It's always been a WoW clone with very little improvements that doesn't really set itself apart. It's a "good, just not as good as..." game.

 

Good God. Here we go again... WoW clone.

The category isn't best MMO, it's best MMO Studio.  Turbine won because of their Devs' constant presense and availablity to the customers through the forums and even in-game, great customer service, smooth launches, and the constant free content updates.

 

I think it's only fair to judge a studio by the quality of the games they produce, no?
Turbine developers can spend as much time on the forums they like, that doesn't make a game good. In fact, I'd say it really doesn't matter if a developer visits the forum, or if Community managers pass on the issues players have with the game to the developers.

 

Nice, you go completely off topic and then try to back peddle when they call you on it.  BTW when you consider what is out there in this genre Lotro is as good as any other.   AC1 and DDO are not bad either and they continue to provide free updates for both.

Turbine continues to provide the best support in the industry.  Only CCP comes close.

Stop talking out of your ass, You judge a company based on their games, and only partly on their service.  Would NP Cube be a great development studio if only they delivered great customer service and frequent content updates? Ofcourse not, because Dark & Light is still a crappy game, no matter how much customer service you throw at it.

Keep in mind that I didn't say Lotro is by any means bad, it's a really good game, just not as good as World of Warcraft. Which wouldn''t be a problem, if they weren't so similar to each other. but they are, so why should a person play Lotro over WoW? Unless you're a die hard Lord of the rings fan, I really see no reason why anybody should play Lotro over WoW.

You're right, Lotro is as good as any other...except for Warcraft, the game they have been trying so hard to imitate.

But oh dear, what am I saying? We can't have Blizzard win any awards now can we? Oh gosh no.

Originally posted by Kordesh

I said to myself I wasn't going to butt in, but here we go.

Turbine deserved this is hands down. Anyone who's played the early years of AC or LoTRO knows they know how to run a game, and they know how to create a symbiotic relationship between the players and the company, rather than simply leeching them dry like some other companies that won't be mentioned.

People compairing the game to WoW are falling into the same trap and curse that every other game on the market is under right now. The preconception that "To be a good MMO, you must be WoW'. Yes, it shares the core mechanics in that you kill stuff, loot drops, and you level. But that is not "core WoW mechanics" that's core MMO mechanics. WoW hardly cornered the market on "grinding loot and levels". What WoW players tend to look for and what the people who play LoTRO look for is vastly different. WoW players look at LoTRO and see a boring game where the armor isn't ridiculously huge or flashy enough, without constant raiding or the other gear grinding accoutrements they're used to. What they don't see is that's not the point, and that's what differentiates this so called "WoW Clone." LoTRO was designed using the old MMO concept of developing a virtual world, not just a linear gear grind. It's not about powering on to the level cap so you can raid raid raid until the next armor tier is dropped. It's about exploring the LoTRO universe, playing through the story as it unfolds with each book, and running around with your group completing a few quests or earning some deeds, maybe crafting a few things,  before capping off the day by going back to your player owned house and fishing in the nearby lake. As mentioned before, LoTRO is all about the journey, not the destination, or the grinding, or the loot. Sure, it's there, but it's not the only driving force to the game. This doesn't appeal to everyone because to most of the people brought in by WoW, the WoW concept of what an MMO is, is all they know, and they're just looking for simple grinding fun. That's fine, it's different. But understand that just because it caters to a different audience, doesn't make it simply "failing at being this game I think is better."

As for one of the bigger complaints about the look and feel of the game, it's not going to appeal to everyone. The LoTR universe can best be described as "realisitc fantasy". As in, it's a fantasy world no doubt, but it's one that with a dash of trolls and pinch of magic added, could actually exist. As the game is kept well in check to not go blatantly against the spirit of the LoTRO universe, the classes, abilities, and yes the armor styles, are stylized but conservative to the point where you could actually see them being worn/made as opposed to WoW where it's not uncommon to see a human warrior hauling around more steel than a panzer tank. Personally, especially with Moria, I like how they're managed to keep it semi-realistic while still making the newer equipment look more ornate.

tl;dr version: WoW and LoTRO are similar in core MMO concepts only. The direction and community are wholely different animals. WoW players might not understand it, but LoTRO players don't understand what WoW players see in their game either. What needs to be accepted is that things can be different without being "not enough like that other game." Not everything needs or wants to be similar, and not everything must be assimilated.

Excellent.  I completely agree.  I never understood the appeal of WoW but I am a huge fan of MMO in general and of LOTRO for the reasons you mentioned.

Originally posted by Kordesh

I said to myself I wasn't going to butt in, but here we go.

Turbine deserved this is hands down. Anyone who's played the early years of AC or LoTRO knows they know how to run a game, and they know how to create a symbiotic relationship between the players and the company, rather than simply leeching them dry like some other companies that won't be mentioned.

People compairing the game to WoW are falling into the same trap and curse that every other game on the market is under right now. The preconception that "To be a good MMO, you must be WoW'. Yes, it shares the core mechanics in that you kill stuff, loot drops, and you level. But that is not "core WoW mechanics" that's core MMO mechanics. WoW hardly cornered the market on "grinding loot and levels". What WoW players tend to look for and what the people who play LoTRO look for is vastly different. WoW players look at LoTRO and see a boring game where the armor isn't ridiculously huge or flashy enough, without constant raiding or the other gear grinding accoutrements they're used to. What they don't see is that's not the point, and that's what differentiates this so called "WoW Clone." LoTRO was designed using the old MMO concept of developing a virtual world, not just a linear gear grind. It's not about powering on to the level cap so you can raid raid raid until the next armor tier is dropped. It's about exploring the LoTRO universe, playing through the story as it unfolds with each book, and running around with your group completing a few quests or earning some deeds, maybe crafting a few things,  before capping off the day by going back to your player owned house and fishing in the nearby lake. As mentioned before, LoTRO is all about the journey, not the destination, or the grinding, or the loot. Sure, it's there, but it's not the only driving force to the game. This doesn't appeal to everyone because to most of the people brought in by WoW, the WoW concept of what an MMO is, is all they know, and they're just looking for simple grinding fun. That's fine, it's different. But understand that just because it caters to a different audience, doesn't make it simply "failing at being this game I think is better."

As for one of the bigger complaints about the look and feel of the game, it's not going to appeal to everyone. The LoTR universe can best be described as "realisitc fantasy". As in, it's a fantasy world no doubt, but it's one that with a dash of trolls and pinch of magic added, could actually exist. As the game is kept well in check to not go blatantly against the spirit of the LoTRO universe, the classes, abilities, and yes the armor styles, are stylized but conservative to the point where you could actually see them being worn/made as opposed to WoW where it's not uncommon to see a human warrior hauling around more steel than a panzer tank. Personally, especially with Moria, I like how they're managed to keep it semi-realistic while still making the newer equipment look more ornate.

tl;dr version: WoW and LoTRO are similar in core MMO concepts only. The direction and community are wholely different animals. WoW players might not understand it, but LoTRO players don't understand what WoW players see in their game either. What needs to be accepted is that things can be different without being "not enough like that other game." Not everything needs or wants to be similar, and not everything must be assimilated.

Actually the biggest issue is that many developers such as turbine, not players, think that to be a good/successful mmo you have to be like WoW. You're trying to make Lotro be something that it clearly isn't. Lotro isn't designed to create a virtual world anymore than a game like WoW. Players have very little influence on the actual game world. Some people call this the "theme park" mmo concept and while I don't really like to call it that way, it's clear that the game directs your experience. It sends you from one quest to the next and from area to area. There is no room for politics or any sort of non - controlled PVP.

You claim that unlike WoW, Lotro is all about exploring the Lord of the Rings Universe. How is that done anymore than WoW? Lotro lets you discover Middle Earth, but so does WoW. We explored Azeorth in classic WoW, meeting important characters from the games and books, The Burning Crusade introduced Outland, where you would discover the land of the draenei and  meet well known characters from the games and books. WOTRL did..well you get the picture. There is no difference between the two, nor are any of the other things you mentioned.

Questing with your group, fishing, crafting, with the exception of your player house (neighborhoods are instanced), all of that can, and is, being done in WoW.

WoW and Lotro in design are nearly identical to each other, and the driving force is up to the player,. If your driving force is leveling, questing, getting more and better items, you can do that in both mmorpg's. If you want a more "relaxed" experience, you can do that in both games as well.

Nearly everything you mentioned can and is being done in WoW.

Originally posted by Gameloading

Stop talking out of your ass, You judge a company based on their games, and only partly on their service.  Would NP Cube be a great development studio if only they delivered great customer service and frequent content updates? Ofcourse not, because Dark & Light is still a crappy game, no matter how much customer service you throw at it.

Keep in mind that I didn't say Lotro is by any means bad, it's a really good game, just not as good as World of Warcraft. Which wouldn''t be a problem, if they weren't so similar to each other. but they are, so why should a person play Lotro over WoW? Unless you're a die hard Lord of the rings fan, I really see no reason why anybody should play Lotro over WoW. *

You're right, Lotro is as good as any other...except for Warcraft, the game they have been trying so hard to imitate.

But oh dear, what am I saying? We can't have Blizzard win any awards now can we? Oh gosh no.

 

You claim that unlike WoW, Lotro is all about exploring the Lord of the Rings Universe. How is that done anymore than WoW? Lotro lets you discover Middle Earth, but so does WoW. We explored Azeorth in classic WoW, meeting important characters from the games and books, The Burning Crusade introduced Outland, where you would discover the land of the draenei and meet well known characters from the games and books. WOTRL did..well you get the picture. There is no difference between the two, nor are any of the other things you mentioned.

WoW and Lotro in design are nearly identical to each other, and the driving force is up to the player,. If your driving force is leveling, questing, getting more and better items, you can do that in both mmorpg's. If you want a more "relaxed" experience, you can do that in both games as well.

* Let me answer that:

1 - I prefer less cartoonish characters

2 - I prefer a good story, a good RP to a rush to the level Cap a beeing called a noob all the way up

3 - I prefer a live, textured world to an untextured neon and blunt place

4 - Did i mention that i don't like cartoons?

5 - I like my shoulder's size the way they are, thank you.

6 - I don't think any kind of character can wear 1 Ton of Metal and still have enough agility to evade an attack

7 - I prefer a mature community

8 - I don't like to follow the herd and play a game "just because 10 million can't be wrong".

9 - I prefer a Company with activelly speaking and hearing devellopers, that interact and actually implement and answer do private messages.

10 - I don't like people considering other players "lesser players" just because they don't have reached max level yet.

11 - I my game to be fun at all levels, not just at endgame.

12 - DirectX 10? :)

13 - The Shire, Bree-Town, Rivendell, Weathertop, Fornost, Annuminas, Carahadras, Hollin Gate, 2nd Hall, Chamber of Crossroads, Endless Stairs, Lothlorien and all those mythical places.

Wa.. What? Are you actually comparing Lord of the Rings lore and Books to Warcraft lore and books? And putting them in the same scale? That boggles the mind...

Yes, the driving force is the player. And i would never trade the community we have at lotro for your 10 million friends.

I wonder when was the last time you got a free REGION in wow for free. Or the last time you had a free Class for free. Heck? Do you even have the chance of a lifetime membership or be able to go to the barber without RMT?

Both blizzard and Turbine are companies and are here for the money. But Turbine allways gives something back and blizzard just takes it all away.

Originally posted by bodypass

Another MILESTONE of bad taste and a tribute to what mmorpg.com readers stand for.

In 2008 Turbine introduced .... FISHING ! Yep you read it here first. Wow.

First they ruined AC. Everyone agrees on that.

Then they ruined the beautiful playing Lore I grew up with: Dungeons and Dragons

Then they ruined the best original Fantasy Lore ever: Middle Earth with a pure and utterly dead (faction wise) Wow clone. The books were epic, the film legendary, the game clownesk and as dead as the puppets you control (I always found the hunter shooting at zero range a disgrace for Legolas).

The only thing it has is a copyright carton figure giving you quests with a ring above his head.

If it weren't for the bought out lore, this game would have less players than Ultima Online.

And hail to their animations: every avatar in Turbine products are stuck with a stick in their ass.

Cheers. It demonstrated what MMORPG.COM is becoming. A place of old moaning grognards who don't have a clue.

 

I have to agree with the above, not often I agree with a negative post but that sums up my feelings exactly when it comes to Turbine!

 

Congratulations for Turbine!

Sure there are things to do better in the future, but they are going the right way.
A  well deserved award in my opinion, I hope they'll keep up the good work for many years to come.

Originally posted by wickedpt

Originally posted by Gameloading

Stop talking out of your ass, You judge a company based on their games, and only partly on their service.  Would NP Cube be a great development studio if only they delivered great customer service and frequent content updates? Ofcourse not, because Dark & Light is still a crappy game, no matter how much customer service you throw at it.

Keep in mind that I didn't say Lotro is by any means bad, it's a really good game, just not as good as World of Warcraft. Which wouldn''t be a problem, if they weren't so similar to each other. but they are, so why should a person play Lotro over WoW? Unless you're a die hard Lord of the rings fan, I really see no reason why anybody should play Lotro over WoW. *

You're right, Lotro is as good as any other...except for Warcraft, the game they have been trying so hard to imitate.

But oh dear, what am I saying? We can't have Blizzard win any awards now can we? Oh gosh no.

 

You claim that unlike WoW, Lotro is all about exploring the Lord of the Rings Universe. How is that done anymore than WoW? Lotro lets you discover Middle Earth, but so does WoW. We explored Azeorth in classic WoW, meeting important characters from the games and books, The Burning Crusade introduced Outland, where you would discover the land of the draenei and meet well known characters from the games and books. WOTRL did..well you get the picture. There is no difference between the two, nor are any of the other things you mentioned.

WoW and Lotro in design are nearly identical to each other, and the driving force is up to the player,. If your driving force is leveling, questing, getting more and better items, you can do that in both mmorpg's. If you want a more "relaxed" experience, you can do that in both games as well.

* Let me answer that:

1 - I prefer less cartoonish characters

2 - I prefer a good story, a good RP to a rush to the level Cap a beeing called a noob all the way up

3 - I prefer a live, textured world to an untextured neon and blunt place

4 - Did i mention that i don't like cartoons?

5 - I like my shoulder's size the way they are, thank you.

6 - I don't think any kind of character can wear 1 Ton of Metal and still have enough agility to evade an attack

7 - I prefer a mature community

8 - I don't like to follow the herd and play a game "just because 10 million can't be wrong".

9 - I prefer a Company with activelly speaking and hearing devellopers, that interact and actually implement and answer do private messages.

10 - I don't like people considering other players "lesser players" just because they don't have reached max level yet.

11 - I my game to be fun at all levels, not just at endgame.

12 - DirectX 10? :)

13 - The Shire, Bree-Town, Rivendell, Weathertop, Fornost, Annuminas, Carahadras, Hollin Gate, 2nd Hall, Chamber of Crossroads, Endless Stairs, Lothlorien and all those mythical places.

Wa.. What? Are you actually comparing Lord of the Rings lore and Books to Warcraft lore and books? And putting them in the same scale? That boggles the mind...

Yes, the driving force is the player. And i would never trade the community we have at lotro for your 10 million friends.

I wonder when was the last time you got a free REGION in wow for free. Or the last time you had a free Class for free. Heck? Do you even have the chance of a lifetime membership or be able to go to the barber without RMT?

Both blizzard and Turbine are companies and are here for the money. But Turbine allways gives something back and blizzard just takes it all away.

 

It's clear that you're struggling to find reasons to pick Lotro over WoW as they can be summed up in 3 aspects:

1: Graphics
2: Community
3: Storyline

1: Graphics is hardly an argument, WoW has been praised many times for it's artistic direction, and it depends on taste. Also, are graphics really that important in a game to you? I consider graphics a nice extra but it's gameplay and content that really matter

2: You really can't attack a developer for the community of a game. Also, it really depends on your personal experience and they differ. You can meet big assholes in Lotro and friendly people in WoW and vice versa.

3: True, storyline is an option, but if you want to give up a whole load of content for a storyline which impacts about 10% of your actual gameplay experience and is little more than cutscenes and text during quests, more power to you.

First of all what I meant by discovery is that both games feature exploring, thus designed the same way.

Also, what's your point about regions? WoW has received plenty of free updates, including its PVP system.

About classes, World of Warcraft launched with 9 classes and 8 races. Lotro launched with 7 classes and 4 races. Currently WoW has 10 classes and 10 races. Lotro has 9 classes and 4 races.

WoW currently requires WotLK for 1 class.

I'm not sure if Mines of Mornia is required for Warden and Rune Keeper? if yes, that requires an expansion for 2 classes.

 Lifetime membership? Oh, you mean that plan that was first announced as pre - order only to lure more people into pre-ordering?

oh sure, WoW doesn't have lifetime membership or free barber shops. Know what WoW does have? A full blown PVP system. Then again, Lotro has monster play....

And that pretty much sumps up WoW and Lotro. Lotro and WoW are the same game with the biggest gameplay differences being that WoW has much more content and a PVP system where as Lotro only has PVE.

Why Turbine?

Asherons Call - The game i missed when it was published and when I found it the graphics and UI were just too much a thing from the past. Still, if Turbine ever revamps the UI and replaces the graphics engine with the one they use in LotRO and D&D, I willl very probably sub. It still had features that made me go *wow* like the magic, way the skills and levels are handled - reminding me pretty much of Rolemaster actually at places. And it's still only one of the first big three that doesn't have RMT shop added in...

D&D - Not the biggest D&D hit universe at  which the game could be located and it's instanced, making the world at places feel less alive. Still it is a game where you can live some of the tabletop feeling. When played with regular group of friends, advancing and learning while they go, not zerging behind someone who's already done it all, it's a good and entertaining game. And one of the few - maybe the only one - where character skills and player skills are in balance, needing both twitchiness and strategic use of the abilities granted by character.

LotRO - Enough of it said already. Not a WoW clone unless the scrutiny is marginal, but very different beast underneath.

PvP stance - I reckon Turbine has learnt their lesson with AC and AC2. Mixing PvP and PvE tends to break both, and the way PvP is handled in LotRO shows that they have given a lot of thought how PvP disrupts PvE gameplay the least - and vice versa.

Continuing and mostly free development of their existing titles. The quality and quantity of new stuff added free in all of them far exceeds most of the other companies. I reckon that CCP with EvE is similar in that respect.

Indie company after buying the right for AC back from Microsoft. Turbine is responsible only feeding their staff and to us who are playing their games. They don't need to turn their profits in to the shareholders. So with Turbine I can be assured that my money goes mostly into upkeep of the servers, staff and ongoing development of their games.

Congrats to Turbine for very deserved win!

As I have said before Gameloading this is YOUR OPINION... There are alot of people in this thread who dont agree with you and some who do. You said that the critics agree with you but I havent seen any of them who says LotrO is just a WoW clone with no PvP and less content. If you dont see the differnces between the games then LotrO is not for you, just like some people cant see Aion as anything else than WoW with Korean graphics and wings. (see the Irony yet?)

The funny thing is that what I have read/heard about Wotlk is that they are making WoW more like LotrO: Adding achivements, More focus on the lore and story, Starting instnace for DK to tell story, making it more accesible and less grindy. So it seems that WoW is now the follower ;)

Originally posted by Papadam

As I have said before Gameloading this is YOUR OPINION... There are alot of people in this thread who dont agree with you and some who do. You said that the critics agree with you but I havent seen any of them who says LotrO is just a WoW clone with no PvP and less content. If you dont see the differnces between the games then LotrO is not for you, just like some people cant see Aion as anything else than WoW with Korean graphics and wings. (see the Irony yet?)

The funny thing is that what I have read/heard about Wotlk is that they are making WoW more like LotrO: Adding achivements, More focus on the lore and story, Starting instnace for DK to tell story, making it more accesible and less grindy. So it seems that WoW is now the follower ;)

The "It's your opinion" argument isn't going to get you anywhere. A games design is not a matter of opinion, it is a fact. a game is quest driven or it's not. A game offers more content than the other or it does not.

I'm sure there are lots of people who think Aion is WoW with different graphics, and if you ask me the differences I will gladly explain to you how they are different (Not in this thread ofcourse, no reason to turn it into a thread about Aion). Meanwhile some people here have attempted to argue how Lotro is different. One mentioned a couple of features of which nearly all were present in WoW as well, while others argued things such as "Community", which is fine, but a community experience varies greatly depending on your own attitude, the people you run into and even which hours you play the game, and has very little to do with a games design, or its developers.

WoW does a few things different in Wrath of the Lich King, it now has more cinematics and phasing is introduced. thats about it. Ofcourse it added a lot of other things as well.

Originally posted by Gameloading

 

It's clear that you're struggling to find reasons to pick Lotro over WoW as they can be summed up in 3 aspects:

1: Graphics
2: Community
3: Storyline

1: Graphics is hardly an argument, WoW has been praised many times for it's artistic direction, and it depends on taste. Also, are graphics really that important in a game to you? I consider graphics a nice extra but it's gameplay and content that really matter

Well why not? When you date are you completely disregarding whether or not someone is attractive to you? Or do you find that an extra.

I feel that that can never really be an argument. We are very much a visual species among other things. We respond t things visually.

The whole reason why we have art is because as a species images have a profound effect on us. Otherwise we could just have stick figures and very little use of color and save a whole lot of money.

If you were to ask me, sure, WoW has more than LOTRO in many ways. It has a bit more polish, It has all its "i's" dotted and "t's crossed. I like how WoW deals with rewards much better as it will actually offer you something you can use depending on class whereas LOTRO might offer me things that I just have to vendor. Essentially WoW is better at details.

But I don't really play WoW except on occassion. The Art design and world of LOTRO is far more appealing. And since it is a polished game that only helps.

Part of the reason so many players scream for customization is because they want the look of something that is appealing to them. Something that inspires. Same for the look of a game.

So sure, beauty is only skin deep but it is the first of many invitations to a player. if a player can't get beyond the art style then it doesn't matter how great the gameplay is, they are going to find something else. That visceral response is what initially attracts. The gameplay then has to do the rest.

But if, when you date you completely don't care what the person looks like, no matter what then you are a rare individual indeed.

Originally posted by Gameloading

Originally posted by Papadam

Originally posted by Gameloading

Originally posted by Papadam

Originally posted by Gameloading

Originally posted by Paragus1

Originally posted by Gameloading

Can't say I really agree with it. Imho, Lotro has never really justified it's existance.  It's always been a WoW clone with very little improvements that doesn't really set itself apart. It's a "good, just not as good as..." game.

 

While I share your opinion of the game itself, Turbine launched the game relatively smooth.  My main issue with Turbine as a company is how they ruined Asheron's Call with a horrid sequel.   They should give AC1 some love, maybe make it free to play, promote it more, or give it some sort of graphical overhaul.

 

While Lotro did indeed have a smooth launch, that was in 2007, not 2008.

They haven't done anything really special in 2008 besides releasing a good expansion pack which is,sorry to repeat myself, "good,just not as good as..."

Also, I can't really say that Dungeons & Dragons Online received anything truly noteworthy.

I agree with you on AC1. AC1 is just sort of sitting there. It doesn't really have a lot of subscribers, it would be nice if Turbine was a bit more creative with the game. Make it free, perhaps an item mall, advertise it a little bit on banners and the game might just be revived again.

 

Well thats your personal opinion that LotrO is "good,just not as good as..."

There is people who dont agree and think that LotrO offers something unique in the MMO market and Turbine are doing a great job with it. 46% of the voters thinks that Turbine is best of thoose companies so it seem Im not alone.

And grats Turbine :)

 

 

It's not just my personal opinion, it's the opinion of many professional critics as well who are, unlike many voters on this website, not biased.

 

You meen like theese reviewers?

http://www.metacritic.com/games/platforms/pc/middleearthonline?q=lord%20of%20the%20rings%20online

or theese for MoM?

http://www.metacritic.com/games/platforms/pc/lordoftheringsonlineminesofmoria?q=lord%20of%20the%20rings%20online

I understand that some people think that LotrO is just a lesser WoW clone.. because WoW is the better than LotrO at being WoW... thankfully LotrO is better in other aspects and follows a different design philosophy. So if you are looking for more WoW in LotrO then you are going to be dissapointed.

 

Exact, I'm talking about those reviewers who rate both Lotro and Mines of Mornia below World of Warcraft, The Burning Crusade and Wrath of the Lich King.

www.metacritic.com/games/platforms/pc/worldofwarcraft

www.metacritic.com/games/platforms/pc/worldofwarcrafttheburningcrusade

www.metacritic.com/games/platforms/pc/worldofwarcraftwrathofthelichking

Lotro doesn't follow a different design philosphy, it follows the exact same one as WoW. Make it approachable, lead the players through quests from area to area to keep rewarding the player, and toss in an instance every now and then. Sure, Lotro adds a few more storyline cutscenes, but it's core gameplay mechanics are the same.

 

Lotro is good, just not as good as and that's why World of Warcraft is rated higher and has 11 million subscribers while Lotro has only a few hundred thousand.

Can you say sore loser? For someone who thinks that the choices that MMORPG shouldn't be that important you sure are posting a lot about it and having a lot to say about it. If you want to get into the subject of how great Blizzard is you should sign into WOW sometime and watch the in game talk whenever something goes wrong with WOW. It usually goes something like there goes Blizzard again, and wonder what they messed up now, or wonder how many days the games going down.

Even the people who play WOW for the most part will agree with how bad Blizzard is as a studio. This isn't a vote for any game or games they have out. Its for the studio as a studio. How their customer service is is exactly what this win is for. Its not about a game they have or someone else has.

Guess you skipped over that in all the research you did above. Just thought I might help you out there.

Originally posted by Sovrath

Originally posted by Gameloading

 

It's clear that you're struggling to find reasons to pick Lotro over WoW as they can be summed up in 3 aspects:

1: Graphics
2: Community
3: Storyline

1: Graphics is hardly an argument, WoW has been praised many times for it's artistic direction, and it depends on taste. Also, are graphics really that important in a game to you? I consider graphics a nice extra but it's gameplay and content that really matter

 

Well why not? When you date are you completely disregarding whether or not someone is attractive to you? Or do you find that an extra.

I feel that that can never really be an argument. We are very much a visual species among other things. We respond t things visually.

The whole reason why we have art is because as a species images have a profound effect on us. Otherwise we could just have stick figures and very little use of color and save a whole lot of money.

If you were to ask me, sure, WoW has more than LOTRO in many ways. It has a bit more polish, It has all its "i's" dotted and "t's crossed. I like how WoW deals with rewards much better as it will actually offer you something you can use depending on class whereas LOTRO might offer me things that I just have to vendor. Essentially WoW is better at details.

But I don't really play WoW except on occassion. The Art design and world of LOTRO is far more appealing. And since it is a polished game that only helps.

Part of the reason so many players scream for customization is because they want the look of something that is appealing to them. Something that inspires. Same for the look of a game.

So sure, beauty is only skin deep but it is the first of many invitations to a player. if a player can't get beyond the art style then it doesn't matter how great the gameplay is, they are going to find something else. That visceral response is what initially attracts. The gameplay then has to do the rest.

But if, when you date you completely don't care what the person looks like, no matter what then you are a rare individual indeed.

 

You know just as well as I do that dating and playing games can't be compared, they are very different things. People like pretty graphics, sure, but I think few people would actually let graphics be a huge, major influence in their decision.

Case in point, which console is selling the most? Not the Playstation 3, not the Xbox360, it's the little underpowered Wii, just like the underpowered Playstation 2 was the best selling machine last generation. Handhelds is no different, DS is selling much more than the more powerful PSP.

Originally posted by Gameloading

Originally posted by Papadam

As I have said before Gameloading this is YOUR OPINION... There are alot of people in this thread who dont agree with you and some who do. You said that the critics agree with you but I havent seen any of them who says LotrO is just a WoW clone with no PvP and less content. If you dont see the differnces between the games then LotrO is not for you, just like some people cant see Aion as anything else than WoW with Korean graphics and wings. (see the Irony yet?)

The funny thing is that what I have read/heard about Wotlk is that they are making WoW more like LotrO: Adding achivements, More focus on the lore and story, Starting instnace for DK to tell story, making it more accesible and less grindy. So it seems that WoW is now the follower ;)

 

The "It's your opinion" argument isn't going to get you anywhere. A games design is not a matter of opinion, it is a fact. a game is quest driven or it's not. A game offers more content than the other or it does not.

I'm sure there are lots of people who think Aion is WoW with different graphics, and if you ask me the differences I will gladly explain to you how they are different (Not in this thread ofcourse, no reason to turn it into a thread about Aion). Meanwhile some people here have attempted to argue how Lotro is different. One mentioned a couple of features of which nearly all were present in WoW as well, while others argued things such as "Community", which is fine, but a community experience varies greatly depending on your own attitude, the people you run into and even which hours you play the game, and has very little to do with a games design, or its developers.

WoW does a few things different in Wrath of the Lich King, it now has more cinematics and phasing is introduced. thats about it. Ofcourse it added a lot of other things as well.

Since the game design is not exactly the same (very differnt in some cases) then its a FACT that LotrO is not just WoW with less content and no PvP :)

Originally posted by Papadam

Originally posted by Gameloading

Originally posted by Papadam

As I have said before Gameloading this is YOUR OPINION... There are alot of people in this thread who dont agree with you and some who do. You said that the critics agree with you but I havent seen any of them who says LotrO is just a WoW clone with no PvP and less content. If you dont see the differnces between the games then LotrO is not for you, just like some people cant see Aion as anything else than WoW with Korean graphics and wings. (see the Irony yet?)

The funny thing is that what I have read/heard about Wotlk is that they are making WoW more like LotrO: Adding achivements, More focus on the lore and story, Starting instnace for DK to tell story, making it more accesible and less grindy. So it seems that WoW is now the follower ;)

 

The "It's your opinion" argument isn't going to get you anywhere. A games design is not a matter of opinion, it is a fact. a game is quest driven or it's not. A game offers more content than the other or it does not.

I'm sure there are lots of people who think Aion is WoW with different graphics, and if you ask me the differences I will gladly explain to you how they are different (Not in this thread ofcourse, no reason to turn it into a thread about Aion). Meanwhile some people here have attempted to argue how Lotro is different. One mentioned a couple of features of which nearly all were present in WoW as well, while others argued things such as "Community", which is fine, but a community experience varies greatly depending on your own attitude, the people you run into and even which hours you play the game, and has very little to do with a games design, or its developers.

WoW does a few things different in Wrath of the Lich King, it now has more cinematics and phasing is introduced. thats about it. Ofcourse it added a lot of other things as well.

 

Since the game design is not exactly the same (very differnt in some cases) then its a FACT that LotrO is not just WoW with less content and no PvP :)

It's core gameplay mechanics ARE the same, and so is the vast majority of the content. 

Can you say sore loser? For someone who thinks that the choices that MMORPG shouldn't be that important you sure are posting a lot about it and having a lot to say about it. If you want to get into the subject of how great Blizzard is you should sign into WOW sometime and watch the in game talk whenever something goes wrong with WOW. It usually goes something like there goes Blizzard again, and wonder what they messed up now, or wonder how many days the games going down.

Even the people who play WOW for the most part will agree with how bad Blizzard is as a studio. This isn't a vote for any game or games they have out. Its for the studio as a studio. How their customer service is is exactly what this win is for. Its not about a game they have or someone else has.

Guess you skipped over that in all the research you did above. Just thought I might help you out there.
 

Sore loser? wait, what? I didn't lose anything, I don't have stocks in mmorpg gaming. "Someone who thinks that the choice that MMORPG shouldn't be that important"? Huh? That doesn't even make any sense.

Yes I'm sure they thing Blizzard is terrible as a studio, Thats why they keep playing their games and lining up in front of stores just for an expansion, right?

Also, apparently you skipped over this part:

"Personally, I'm thrilled that we added this category to the awards this year. It wasn't an easy decision. After all, by what criteria do you judge a game studio? On their product? On their Customer Service? In the end, we left it in your hands to choose the best overall studio, from product to community to customer service and you overwhelmingly told us that Turbine was your favorite."
 

So yes, product is very important, and I already said that I find the quality of the products  far and away the most important aspects. A good game with bad customer support is still a good game. A bad game with good customer support is still a bad game.
 

Originally posted by Gameloading

Originally posted by Sovrath

Originally posted by Gameloading

 

It's clear that you're struggling to find reasons to pick Lotro over WoW as they can be summed up in 3 aspects:

1: Graphics
2: Community
3: Storyline

1: Graphics is hardly an argument, WoW has been praised many times for it's artistic direction, and it depends on taste. Also, are graphics really that important in a game to you? I consider graphics a nice extra but it's gameplay and content that really matter

 

Well why not? When you date are you completely disregarding whether or not someone is attractive to you? Or do you find that an extra.

I feel that that can never really be an argument. We are very much a visual species among other things. We respond t things visually.

The whole reason why we have art is because as a species images have a profound effect on us. Otherwise we could just have stick figures and very little use of color and save a whole lot of money.

If you were to ask me, sure, WoW has more than LOTRO in many ways. It has a bit more polish, It has all its "i's" dotted and "t's crossed. I like how WoW deals with rewards much better as it will actually offer you something you can use depending on class whereas LOTRO might offer me things that I just have to vendor. Essentially WoW is better at details.

But I don't really play WoW except on occassion. The Art design and world of LOTRO is far more appealing. And since it is a polished game that only helps.

Part of the reason so many players scream for customization is because they want the look of something that is appealing to them. Something that inspires. Same for the look of a game.

So sure, beauty is only skin deep but it is the first of many invitations to a player. if a player can't get beyond the art style then it doesn't matter how great the gameplay is, they are going to find something else. That visceral response is what initially attracts. The gameplay then has to do the rest.

But if, when you date you completely don't care what the person looks like, no matter what then you are a rare individual indeed.

 

You know just as well as I do that dating and playing games can't be compared, they are very different things. People like pretty graphics, sure, but I think few people would actually let graphics be a huge, major influence in their decision.

Case in point, which console is selling the most? Not the Playstation 3, not the Xbox360, it's the little underpowered Wii, just like the underpowered Playstation 2 was the best selling machine last generation. Handhelds is no different, DS is selling much more than the more powerful PSP.

I'm not talking about the ins and outs of relationships as compared to gameplay. I'm talking about how we as a species have evolved with a strong visual sense and that it plays more into our daily decisions then people know or would admit to. If I look at a woman but I don't find her attractive then no matter how great a person she is, I'm not going to date her. If I look at a game that seems goofy or the Art design seems lacking then I might not initially be attracted to try it. And again, I think WoW has much more than LOTRO in many areas but I can't get beyond the art design. Others have said the same thing.

As far as which console is selling most, the idea that the wii is selling more despite that itdoesn't have the graphic strength of the others is specious reasoning.

The reason it is selling more is that it has games and activities that actually speak more to the average person, not the average power console gamer salivating over Halo 9 or Gears of War. It doesn't have to have cutting edge graphics because the games it offers don't really require them. So sure, Tetris could have amazing graphics so that you feel that they are shimmering 3 d blocks falling from the sky but it doesn't realy require that to get the gameplay across. To that end it it was a white back ground with Black shapes it might hearken back to the days of Pong but wouldn't really catch on today. Art Design and Graphics have to seem natural to the gameplay.

But I contend that if a game has an art design that is not inspiring or attractive to a player then gameplay might not be enough. Remember, we are not talking about graphics that have to be latest and greatest, we are talking about Art Design and Graphics that are convincing given what that Art design requires.

---

So yes, product is very important, and I already said that I find the quality of the products far and away the most important aspects. A good game with bad customer support is still a good game. A bad game with good customer support is still a bad game.

---

We get it. You voted for Blizzard because you find the quality of the product far and away the most important aspect. Obviously, not everyone does. I don't play LOTRO anymore, despite my very misleading title, but my vote(if I had voted) would've gone to Turbine, also. In my opinion(which carries as much weight as yours), LOTRO is an excellent game. When you take that fact, and combine it with their excellent development team, customer service, community, and everything else you conveniently forgot to put in red, Turbine comes out on top.

Is LOTRO better at being WoW than WoW? No. Is it still trying to imitate it? Maybe. Their new expansion did add ten additional levels, much like WoW's expansions have been doing. The only real difference is the introduction of legendary items. It's an important difference, though. When World of Warcraft: Lust of the Fallen Titan comes out, and expands the level cap to 90, you're still throwing away all your epic items for greens. In LOTRO, at least, if the level cap is expanded again in another expansion, you still have your legendary items you can keep leveling to our theoretical level of 70.

Does that make it better than World of Warcraft? What the fuck do I know? It all comes down to personal taste. I hate McDonald's, but I love Burger King. They both make burgers, but I'd much rather have my double whopper with cheese than a Big Mac.

Also, your console statement is quite misleading. I don't think you truly understand why the Wii sells more units. The Wii appeals to a much wider audience, and many of these people who buy a Wii also have an XBOX 360 or a PS3. Maybe both. So what's your point? They're two different things. When they want to play something that doesn't look like a South Park version of Mario, they turn on their XBOX or PS3. When they want to jerk and wave their hands around pretending to be swinging a lightsaber, they play the Wii.

Originally posted by NotArkard 

It's an important difference, though. When World of Warcraft: Lust of the Fallen Titan comes out, and expands the level cap to 90, you're still throwing away all your epic items for greens. In LOTRO, at least, if the level cap is expanded again in another expansion, you still have your legendary items you can keep leveling to our theoretical level of 70.

Actually the lich king expansion added items to the game that level with your character and can also be given to characters on the same account. 

Both games took their que for this from UO2's intelligent weapon system as far as I can tell.  Both are very nice additions to the genre that I hope many games emulate.

Also I have no idea why people single out expansions as something that makes all your current items invalid.  The basic premise of most mmos is to aquire gear.  In that essence, every single event, dungeon and raid has the same net effect as an expansion. When a company adds a new free raid zone, dungeon or whatever why don't people make the same complaints?

Originally posted by duwat1982d 

Even the people who play WOW for the most part will agree with how bad Blizzard is as a studio. This isn't a vote for any game or games they have out. Its for the studio as a studio. How their customer service is is exactly what this win is for. Its not about a game they have or someone else has.

Guess you skipped over that in all the research you did above. Just thought I might help you out there.

I think you have missed the point.

This vote is very much about what game each studio has out.  Do you think Turbine would have won this award if they never released LOTRO?  Do you think the strength of AC2 and DDO would have earned Turbine anything?  This vote very much reflects turbines efforts with Lotro and forgives their recent past efforts.

Personally I am fine with Turbine winning.  We as players should applaud when some company does something right and we should make sure other companies take note of our approval. 

Both companies are doing wonderful things with their respective products.  It is silly to compare these two companies with each other (in respects to WoW vs Lotro), because honestly they are both doing the same exact thing.  There is no clear loser in this comparison.  One company will not come out looking horrible and the other some shining bastion of light for the gaming masses. 

The problem is that there just are not enough companies right now that can really enter the debate for consideration.