I don't understand all this instancing crap. If WoW can have an open world with no loading screens when crossing zones...why can't all the other games?

I can understand more high-graphic games, but still...

What games are you specifically referring to? The only instance heavy games that come to mind are Dungeons and Dragons Online, Guild Wars, and Age of Conan.

What are you effin talkin about? Over 50% of the ppl logged into WoW right now are in an instance...its ridiculous.

Originally posted by Calind0r

What are you effin talkin about? Over 50% of the ppl logged into WoW right now are in an instance...its ridiculous.

He's talking about world zones not dungeons. WoW has its instanced dungeons by design, not due to lack of client/server technology.

What are you smoking?

Instancing is the best invention for MMO. Would you prefer a campfest that you have to take a number to kill & loot the boss?

That campfest, take-a-number mentality is the primary reason why I quit EQ many years ago.

Instancing is the right way to solve the problem.

WoW has no loading screens?  You've never switched continents, you mean?  That not only has a loading screen, but often drops you back on the wrong side of it, so that if you're lucky, you just have to wait several minutes to try again.  If not so lucky, you die, and it takes a lot longer than several minutes to try again.

 As for Guild Wars in particular, it's a different type of game that some people like and some don't.  I, for one, sometimes like that I can kill something and have it stay dead, rather than respawning on top of me in ten minutes.

Why doesn't every country's military use at least F22's and Nimitz class aircraft carriers?

Originally posted by spinach8puff

What games are you specifically referring to? The only instance heavy games that come to mind are Dungeons and Dragons Online, Guild Wars, and Age of Conan.

He also asked about an "open world" which means seamless.  I haven't played a huge amount of games so I can't answer.  If someone can list games and which have a seamless non-instanced world and which don't, I would appreciate it. I'm just talking about the world itself not dungeons.

I do agree with you OP, WoW's world is pretty nice(TBC at least, with the flying. Azeroth still has restrictions based on topography).

But to clarify, WoW's world is seperated into two seperated instances for each continent.

Technology has reached the point where instancing isn't needed and should be done away with once and for all. All it is good for is destroying the immersive feeling of being in an online World.

Originally posted by Quizzical

WoW has no loading screens?  You've never switched continents, you mean?  That not only has a loading screen, but often drops you back on the wrong side of it, so that if you're lucky, you just have to wait several minutes to try again.  If not so lucky, you die, and it takes a lot longer than several minutes to try again.

WoW has loading screens for continents/regions and dungeons but it has much fewer than some MMORPGs. Also having played WoW for years, you rarely (very rarely) have a problem switching continents. That's a huge exaggeration.

Originally posted by polypterus 

He also asked about an "open world" which means seamless.  I haven't played a huge amount of games so I can't answer.  If someone can list games and which have a seamless non-instanced world and which don't, I would appreciate it. I'm just talking about the world itself not dungeons.

I'm sure there's more, but these are the ones that come to mind: 4Story, Shin Megami Tensei, Runes of Magic, Perfect World International, Requiem, and RF Online.

Edit Add: Lineage 2, Ryzom, EVE Online, and Warhammer Online. At least I think Warhammer and Ryzom had an open world without a loading screen for each zone. I could be wrong as I didn't play them much.

Originally posted by spinach8puff

What games are you specifically referring to? The only instance heavy games that come to mind are Dungeons and Dragons Online, Guild Wars, and Age of Conan.

DDO has truly revolutionary combat so it does need its instancing.  People kissed AoC's ass for its combat for a bit but DDO had the real deal years beforehand.  And DDO's combat is truly collision based unlike AoC and its deals with lag better.

Two of the more skill based games around GW and DDO are paritally that way because of timing.  Either through more real combat or from RPG skill use timing (GW interrupts etc).

Its not a coincidence that both games have a lot of instancing.

Originally posted by Abrahmm

I do agree with you OP, WoW's world is pretty nice(TBC at least, with the flying. Azeroth still has restrictions based on topography).

But to clarify, WoW's world is seperated into two seperated instances for each continent.

Technology has reached the point where instancing isn't needed and should be done away with once and for all. All it is good for is destroying the immersive feeling of being in an online World.

Completely wrong.  A TM/SS raid would still crash WoW servers I am pretty certain.  WAR is finding out that it cannot take Fortress sieges without its server going Chernobyl.

Any game with fine control will need instances probably.  Even if we some day get magic servers that never crash, the network infrastructure of the US is not there yet anyway.  Maybe South Korea but not US.

People seem to conviently forget lag.  But then again games like WoW don't require that much skill and lag is much less of an issue until you start moving like molasses.

L2 has one loading screen...when you log in, everything else is in the same seamless world.

I think im the only sandbox fan that doesnt mind instances or zoning lol.

Seriously I never understood the reason so many people bitch about it.

Certain games do zoning and instancing really well.

Only time instancing bothers me is when I try to get into pvp zone and I die while im still in the loading screen due to campers.

Other then that I don't mind little houses being instanced or players having their own copies of dungeons.

Instanced pvp minigames dont bother me either as long as they don't totally own a MMOs open world pvp.

Not once while playing guild wars did i lose my immersive feeling, that game had a great storyline and I teamed up with friends all the time. It didnt bother us once that we were the only group on the map.

I think people get too crazy with the "immersion" thing. a loading screen breaks your immersion? go get yourself checked for A.D.D.

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Originally posted by spinach8puff

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Originally posted by polypterus
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Edit Add: Lineage 2, Ryzom, EVE Online, and Warhammer Online. At least I think Warhammer and Ryzom had an open world without a loading screen for each zone. I could be wrong as I didn't play them much.

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Warhammer, at least, was full of load screens. Every map is its own zone that you have to load into.

Originally posted by metalhead980

I think im the only sandbox fan that doesnt mind instances or zoning lol.

Seriously I never understood the reason so many people bitch about it.

Certain games do zoning and instancing really well.

Only time instancing bothers me is when I try to get into pvp zone and I die while im still in the loading screen due to campers.

Other then that I don't mind little houses being instanced or players having their own copies of dungeons.

Instanced pvp minigames dont bother me either as long as they don't totally own a MMOs open world pvp.

Not once while playing guild wars did i lose my immersive feeling, that game had a great storyline and I teamed up with friends all the time. It didnt bother us once that we were the only group on the map.

I think people get too crazy with the "immersion" thing. a loading screen breaks your immersion? go get yourself checked for A.D.D.

 

Eve is heavily instanced.  They just never say so and cleverly disguise.  That is your answer mostly.  The idea of  "jump gates" is acceptd and can therefore be used to disguise things.

Just look at all the silly people that insist you move slowly to be "immersive" in games with ass tons of magic.  Yet in CoH anyone can get super speed and run 5x faster than a car and people would have a heart attack if they couldn't do that.

The answer is basically that many people are close minded and slaves to their preconceptions.

Originally posted by Joliust

 

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Originally posted by spinach8puff

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Originally posted by polypterus
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Edit Add: Lineage 2, Ryzom, EVE Online, and Warhammer Online. At least I think Warhammer and Ryzom had an open world without a loading screen for each zone. I could be wrong as I didn't play them much.

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Warhammer, at least, was full of load screens. Every map is its own zone that you have to load into.

EAch tier not each map.  You don't travel between tiers that often though.

Originally posted by gestalt11

Originally posted by Abrahmm

I do agree with you OP, WoW's world is pretty nice(TBC at least, with the flying. Azeroth still has restrictions based on topography).

But to clarify, WoW's world is seperated into two seperated instances for each continent.

Technology has reached the point where instancing isn't needed and should be done away with once and for all. All it is good for is destroying the immersive feeling of being in an online World.

 

Completely wrong.  A TM/SS raid would still crash WoW servers I am pretty certain.  WAR is finding out that it cannot take Fortress sieges without its server going Chernobyl.

 

Any game with fine control will need instances probably.  Even if we some day get magic servers that never crash, the network infrastructure of the US is not there yet anyway.  Maybe South Korea but not US.

 

People seem to conviently forget lag.  But then again games like WoW don't require that much skill and lag is much less of an issue until you start moving like molasses.

Completely wrong. I have never seen a TM/SS raid crash a WoW server as of late, but that is beyond the point as WoW isn't exactly "new technology" being over 4 years old.

LOL, you think that US Infrastructure is the reason we have instances?? Haha ok.

Again, what does lag have to do with instances? Nothing. If you think you get "lag" because of too many people in a zone, you are wrong. You don't get latency issues from too many people, the server gets overloaded and can't handle it(that would be "server lag" as simply "lag" refers to latency). But like I said, the technology is there(need some good server clustering and powerful hardware), but there haven't been any MMOs to really take advantage of it.

WoW and games like it may not be totally seamless but where there are loading screens they're not annoying - on a boat ride, going through a big glowy portal, that kind of thing.  Personally, I'm like the OP and find too many loading screens too often or in weird / unmarked places is really annoying.  One of the reasons I didn't stick with EQ2 when I tried it actually, though the expansion areas seemed to be much better done.