Originally posted by downtoearth

Originally posted by xzyax

Originally posted by downtoearth

Originally posted by Kurt00

I just read the NDA.

The funny thing is how do they know that who is signing it is actually the real person?  You can easily just sign any made up name on it.

Do they ask for birth certificates and copy of your license too?

 

that isnt the point

Nope... the point is:
 

 

Why does DarkFall still have their NDA in place with less than 2 weeks until Release?

THAT is the point. 

nope because nda is always in conteact until open beta at least so meh its still closed
 

Heh... good excuse.
 

IF the game is ready... the NDA would be lifted. 

It's really that simple. 

Originally posted by xzyax

Originally posted by nileq

Apparently the NDA must be signed and returned to Aventurine before you will be allowed into the Beta. I wander how many fax-machines they have running, since they sent out 1000 invites this week ;-).

And if you wander how I know that it must be signed and returned. The NDA is on the internetz.. (cant link it for obvious reasons..)

Also on a side note, the first person that leaked the dragon-SS's has supposedly been banned and AV is pressing charges.. ouch.. That might explain the few leaks

 

The REAL question is:

 

WHY is the NDA still in place... with less than 2 weeks to Release?

 

Still waiting of an example of another good MMO that kept their NDA in place for as long. 

If the game is  Ready... why is the NDA still in place? 

That is obvious, if you can't figure that out...

Originally posted by rideya

First off, you CAN go to jail for failure to pay court fines (Law 101 people. If that were the case, NO ONE would pay fines)

 

Second, if you EVER plan on owning a house, or a car, you better damn well worry about your credit score.

Have you ever taken Law 101? and if so..was it state law, national law, international business law?

Why don't we all stop quoting law that we really don't know anything about other than assumptions, unless you happen to be a lawyer who specializes in international contract laws of some type.  In that case, I'd be really interested in hearing what you had to say.  Otherwise we are all (myself included) just speculating on what we think sounds right.

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Originally posted by Kurt00

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Originally posted by nileq

Also on a side note, the first person that leaked the dragon-SS's has supposedly been banned and AV is pressing charges.. ouch.. That might explain the few leaks

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Look someone made a funny.
Give me that NDA to sign. I'll sign it and mail it back then post tons of videos and screenshots everywhere on some Russian proxy.
Then laugh at Aventurine while they try to press charges.
You cannot press charges for breaking a fucking video game NDA that says "don't talk about our game" and if they are actually really trying to do that they are wasting their time and are pretty pathetic.

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Originally posted by Kurt00

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Originally posted by daarco

I dont know where you live...but in the EU,  YOU SHOW UP to court.

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Why? When nothing can happen to you when you don't.

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Originally posted by Kurt00
Here's an example of what a joke NDA's and the like are.
http://thepiratebay.org/legal

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The violation of an NDA is not a criminal act. Breaking it, opens you up to civil lawsuits by the party you signed the agreement with, but no criminal law has been broken. Adventurine would be within it's right to present the breaker of the contract with a subpoena to appear in Civil Court. At that point the judge would have to rule in their favor and then find a judgement against you in a monetary amount. In essense Adventurine is "suing" you. Any suit brought against a breaker of the NDA would cost Adventurine many thousands of dollars (euro's whatever), and the in return they'd get next to nothing from the average violator of the NDA. Namely, young boys, and young men with virtually no money. A judge can fine you for a billion dollars, but in the United States anyway, because it's a civil suit, they can't make you pay the billion dollars. You can't squeeze water from a rock, afterall. In the end, all the money that Adventurine would get for suing it's NDA signers, would be tiny compared to the outlay it paid in legal costs. In the end, I think this is all academic, because I doubt there are many people actually in the beta, and that is the real reason there has been so few leaks.

I also feel that because this company is in Europe, any U.S. NDA violators would NEVER be charged because the amount of red-tape, and above that the COSTS to sue someone over here would be prohibitive. That might be why they are not allowing any North American people into the beta as well. I mean, if I violated the NDA, I would get a lawyer, any lawyer, and drag out the court case, that would costs Adventurine a ton of money that they don't have.

Originally posted by daarco

hmm, maybe thats the point with the NDA....to not talk about it?

But seriously, even the professional beta leakers havent seen anything like this for eight years. There are leaks, but nothing as any other MMO. Almost nothing. I have seen screens of charcter creation, login screen and som UI. Thats it.

"professional beta leaker" lol hilarious.

someone who leaks beta information isnt going to be in many betas. and there are plenty of darkfall leaks. i know games with absolutely no leaks at all.

An NDA is a legal, binding contract.  However, a court ultimately decides what holds weight and what doesn't in an NDA.  For example, if the NDA states that you cannot be part of another game development team or disclose information to another game development team then you are legally obligated not to do that and Aventurine would win their case against you.  However, if the NDA had something like you couldn't work for a game development team after you sign the NDA for two years even after the NDA is lifted, you probably would win that case.

The point is, an NDA is important to a developer or even an individual like you or I who might approach a developer with our own material.  It protects the owner of that asset while still allowing them to get it tested or shared so they can improve upon it without having to worry about losing it.

If they have the evidence and they found the person who posted screenshots or leaked information to the public they would win in court.

Originally posted by nileq

Originally posted by xzyax

Originally posted by nileq

Apparently the NDA must be signed and returned to Aventurine before you will be allowed into the Beta. I wander how many fax-machines they have running, since they sent out 1000 invites this week ;-).

And if you wander how I know that it must be signed and returned. The NDA is on the internetz.. (cant link it for obvious reasons..)

Also on a side note, the first person that leaked the dragon-SS's has supposedly been banned and AV is pressing charges.. ouch.. That might explain the few leaks

 

The REAL question is:

 

WHY is the NDA still in place... with less than 2 weeks to Release?

 

Still waiting of an example of another good MMO that kept their NDA in place for as long. 

If the game is  Ready... why is the NDA still in place? 

 

That is obvious, if you can't figure that out...

Yup, obviously the game is NOT ready yet. 

Despite Tasos' statements to the contrary. 

Originally posted by xzyax

Originally posted by downtoearth

Originally posted by xzyax

Originally posted by downtoearth

Originally posted by Kurt00

I just read the NDA.

The funny thing is how do they know that who is signing it is actually the real person?  You can easily just sign any made up name on it.

Do they ask for birth certificates and copy of your license too?

 

that isnt the point

Nope... the point is:
 

 

Why does DarkFall still have their NDA in place with less than 2 weeks until Release?

THAT is the point. 

nope because nda is always in conteact until open beta at least so meh its still closed
 

Heh... good excuse.
 

 

IF the game is ready... the NDA would be lifted. 

It's really that simple. 

its ready but there doing a q/a process things are still subject to change. not everything is enabled quite yet
 

Originally posted by downtoearth

Originally posted by downtoearth

 

so you think

didnt i have this discussion  with you before o wait that was another account of yours

 Soooo downtoearth discuss things with yourself on the internet much, and since your responding to yourself am i correct in reading your saying you have a alt account?
 

Originally posted by downtoearth

its ready but there doing a q/a process things are still subject to change. not everything is enabled quite yet
 

  So if they are still testing and still everything is not enable then it is NOT ready.

Originally posted by downtoearth

Originally posted by xzyax

Originally posted by downtoearth

Originally posted by xzyax

Originally posted by downtoearth

Originally posted by Kurt00

I just read the NDA.

The funny thing is how do they know that who is signing it is actually the real person?  You can easily just sign any made up name on it.

Do they ask for birth certificates and copy of your license too?

 

that isnt the point

Nope... the point is:
 

 

Why does DarkFall still have their NDA in place with less than 2 weeks until Release?

THAT is the point. 

nope because nda is always in conteact until open beta at least so meh its still closed
 

Heh... good excuse.
 

 

IF the game is ready... the NDA would be lifted. 

It's really that simple. 

its ready but there doing a q/a process things are still subject to change. not everything is enabled quite yet
 

Umm...

What would be your definition of READY? 

Perhaps we need to start there. 

The reason I ask is because part 1 of your sentence is contradicted by part 2.  So, perhaps we are working from entirely different meanings of the word READY. 

Here, I'll start.  This is a simple definition that I think most would agree with:

prepared for immediate use

or

immediately available

I don't see many thing that are unusual here with their "NDA". The couple of things of note...

1) Having the NDA be binding for 5 years after termination of the beta test. This makes absolutely no sense as the NDA becomes voided once the NDA is lifted. It would never hold up in court and they know it. Why put it in unless either the presented NDA is a fake or Aventurine has no clue what they are doing.

2) Saying that any court proceedings will be under Greece jurisdiction. They well know that they cannot enforce national law if that law is not recognised by the nation that the defendant is a part of. Again this contract holds no weight outside of Greece.

3) They put in a provision that some of the NDA could be found not legally binding. So they themselves acknowledge that parts of this NDA would not hold up in court. This is rather standard however because NDAs and EULAs are difficult to prosecute with.

4) Aventurine implies in the NDA that they do not have to prove and damages in a court, that the court must recognize any breach as irreprable damage with no adaquate monetary value. This is completely untrue and holds no weight in a court of law. In fact this could be used against Aventurine as unreasonable expectations and likely help get the case thrown out.

If this circulating NDA is in fact a true document, then it is nothing more then smoke and mirrors. The true legal value of the document is suspect at best and would cost Aventurine far more to enforce then to actually allow breaches. It was a good laugh though.

Originally posted by atziluth

I don't see many thing that are unusual here with their "NDA". The couple of things of note...

1) Having the NDA be binding for 5 years after termination of the beta test. This makes absolutely no sense as the NDA becomes voided once the NDA is lifted. It would never hold up in court and they know it. Why put it in unless either the presented NDA is a fake or Aventurine has no clue what they are doing.

2) Saying that any court proceedings will be under Greece jurisdiction. They well know that they cannot enforce national law if that law is not recognised by the nation that the defendant is a part of. Again this contract holds no weight outside of Greece.

3) They put in a provision that some of the NDA could be found not legally binding. So they themselves acknowledge that parts of this NDA would not hold up in court. This is rather standard however because NDAs and EULAs are difficult to prosecute with.

4) Aventurine implies in the NDA that they do not have to prove and damages in a court, that the court must recognize any breach as irreprable damage with no adaquate monetary value. This is completely untrue and holds no weight in a court of law. In fact this could be used against Aventurine as unreasonable expectations and likely help get the case thrown out.

 

If this circulating NDA is in fact a true document, then it is nothing more then smoke and mirrors. The true legal value of the document is suspect at best and would cost Aventurine far more to enforce then to actually allow breaches. It was a good laugh though.

 Thanks for taking the time to post the detailed information.
 

opps wow how do i quote myself LMAO that quote was meant to be of kurt

Originally posted by xzyax

Originally posted by downtoearth

Originally posted by xzyax

Originally posted by downtoearth

Originally posted by xzyax

Originally posted by downtoearth

Originally posted by Kurt00

I just read the NDA.

The funny thing is how do they know that who is signing it is actually the real person?  You can easily just sign any made up name on it.

Do they ask for birth certificates and copy of your license too?

 

that isnt the point

Nope... the point is:
 

 

Why does DarkFall still have their NDA in place with less than 2 weeks until Release?

THAT is the point. 

nope because nda is always in conteact until open beta at least so meh its still closed
 

Heh... good excuse.
 

 

IF the game is ready... the NDA would be lifted. 

It's really that simple. 

its ready but there doing a q/a process things are still subject to change. not everything is enabled quite yet
 

Umm...

What would be your definition of READY? 

Perhaps we need to start there. 

 

The reason I ask is because part 1 of your sentence is contradicted by part 2.  So, perhaps we are working from entirely different meanings of the word READY. 

 

Here, I'll start.  This is a simple definition that I think most would agree with:

prepared for immediate use

or

immediately available

 

 

 

meaning they could enabled everything and it owuld be fine but instead there doing a q/a process to get proper feedback. and if any bugs pop up there easyer to locate

Originally posted by winter

Originally posted by downtoearth

its ready but there doing a q/a process things are still subject to change. not everything is enabled quite yet
 

 

  So if they are still testing and still everything is not enable then it is NOT ready.

actully it is there doing a q/a process

Originally posted by atziluth

I don't see many thing that are unusual here with their "NDA". The couple of things of note...

1) Having the NDA be binding for 5 years after termination of the beta test. This makes absolutely no sense as the NDA becomes voided once the NDA is lifted. It would never hold up in court and they know it. Why put it in unless either the presented NDA is a fake or Aventurine has no clue what they are doing.

2) Saying that any court proceedings will be under Greece jurisdiction. They well know that they cannot enforce national law if that law is not recognised by the nation that the defendant is a part of. Again this contract holds no weight outside of Greece.

3) They put in a provision that some of the NDA could be found not legally binding. So they themselves acknowledge that parts of this NDA would not hold up in court. This is rather standard however because NDAs and EULAs are difficult to prosecute with.

4) Aventurine implies in the NDA that they do not have to prove and damages in a court, that the court must recognize any breach as irreprable damage with no adaquate monetary value. This is completely untrue and holds no weight in a court of law. In fact this could be used against Aventurine as unreasonable expectations and likely help get the case thrown out.

 

If this circulating NDA is in fact a true document, then it is nothing more then smoke and mirrors. The true legal value of the document is suspect at best and would cost Aventurine far more to enforce then to actually allow breaches. It was a good laugh though.

not really the nda gives them the right heh

Originally posted by atziluth

I don't see many thing that are unusual here with their "NDA". The couple of things of note...

1) Having the NDA be binding for 5 years after termination of the beta test. This makes absolutely no sense as the NDA becomes voided once the NDA is lifted. It would never hold up in court and they know it. Why put it in unless either the presented NDA is a fake or Aventurine has no clue what they are doing.

2) Saying that any court proceedings will be under Greece jurisdiction. They well know that they cannot enforce national law if that law is not recognised by the nation that the defendant is a part of. Again this contract holds no weight outside of Greece.

3) They put in a provision that some of the NDA could be found not legally binding. So they themselves acknowledge that parts of this NDA would not hold up in court. This is rather standard however because NDAs and EULAs are difficult to prosecute with.

4) Aventurine implies in the NDA that they do not have to prove and damages in a court, that the court must recognize any breach as irreprable damage with no adaquate monetary value. This is completely untrue and holds no weight in a court of law. In fact this could be used against Aventurine as unreasonable expectations and likely help get the case thrown out.

 

If this circulating NDA is in fact a true document, then it is nothing more then smoke and mirrors. The true legal value of the document is suspect at best and would cost Aventurine far more to enforce then to actually allow breaches. It was a good laugh though.

Good analysis.

Anyone here being honest should know that as well.  Basically NDAs are there to try and keep the honest people honest.  Other than that... it's just fluff.

Companies do their best to make them sound all scary and legit.  In the end it's just a bluffing game.  It just depends on who wants to call it. 

Originally posted by atziluth

I don't see many thing that are unusual here with their "NDA". The couple of things of note...

1) Having the NDA be binding for 5 years after termination of the beta test. This makes absolutely no sense as the NDA becomes voided once the NDA is lifted. It would never hold up in court and they know it. Why put it in unless either the presented NDA is a fake or Aventurine has no clue what they are doing.

2) Saying that any court proceedings will be under Greece jurisdiction. They well know that they cannot enforce national law if that law is not recognised by the nation that the defendant is a part of. Again this contract holds no weight outside of Greece.

3) They put in a provision that some of the NDA could be found not legally binding. So they themselves acknowledge that parts of this NDA would not hold up in court. This is rather standard however because NDAs and EULAs are difficult to prosecute with.

4) Aventurine implies in the NDA that they do not have to prove and damages in a court, that the court must recognize any breach as irreprable damage with no adaquate monetary value. This is completely untrue and holds no weight in a court of law. In fact this could be used against Aventurine as unreasonable expectations and likely help get the case thrown out.

 

If this circulating NDA is in fact a true document, then it is nothing more then smoke and mirrors. The true legal value of the document is suspect at best and would cost Aventurine far more to enforce then to actually allow breaches. It was a good laugh though.

Finally.. someone with some legal .. knowledge posts..   Thank you for shutting up all these people who THINK they know what they are talking about..

Oh..  And NO, you can't be fined by a country for breaking and NDA.. You can only be fined if you break a LAW (that is a PUBLIC law, not a PRIVATE contract).  If you break private contract, and lose a the suit, you can NOT be put in jail for failing to pay.  However, ANY money y ou receive can be seized as a result of failure to pay, UNTIL your fine is paid.

Wait a minute.  Are people saying the NDA agreement is under the NDA?  You can't disclose the terms of the agreement?  Then how would you know if the document people have mentioned/quoted is in fact the actual NDA that you couldn't break, or just a ficticious one made up by some fan?

Aventurine would have to publish it publically and acknowledge that it was in fact, the official NDA.

All rather silly I think.  But hey, on 1/22 the games going to ship...so all will b known...

Unless they enfore the NDA post release, saying no one is ever allowed to talk about the game to anyone, outside of the game world community. (wouldn't put it past them)

More silliness from those fun folks at Aventurine.

Originally posted by Kyleran

Wait a minute.  Are people saying the NDA agreement is under the NDA?  You can't disclose the terms of the agreement?  Then how would you know if the document people have mentioned/quoted is in fact the actual NDA that you couldn't break, or just a ficticious one made up by some fan?

Aventurine would have to publish it publically and acknowledge that it was in fact, the official NDA.

All rather silly I think.  But hey, on 1/22 the games going to ship...so all will b known...

Unless they enfore the NDA post release, saying no one is ever allowed to talk about the game to anyone, outside of the game world community. (wouldn't put it past them)

More silliness from those fun folks at Aventurine.

 

its the real nda its the one ive had for a while

Originally posted by xzyax

Originally posted by atziluth

I don't see many thing that are unusual here with their "NDA". The couple of things of note...

1) Having the NDA be binding for 5 years after termination of the beta test. This makes absolutely no sense as the NDA becomes voided once the NDA is lifted. It would never hold up in court and they know it. Why put it in unless either the presented NDA is a fake or Aventurine has no clue what they are doing.

2) Saying that any court proceedings will be under Greece jurisdiction. They well know that they cannot enforce national law if that law is not recognised by the nation that the defendant is a part of. Again this contract holds no weight outside of Greece.

3) They put in a provision that some of the NDA could be found not legally binding. So they themselves acknowledge that parts of this NDA would not hold up in court. This is rather standard however because NDAs and EULAs are difficult to prosecute with.

4) Aventurine implies in the NDA that they do not have to prove and damages in a court, that the court must recognize any breach as irreprable damage with no adaquate monetary value. This is completely untrue and holds no weight in a court of law. In fact this could be used against Aventurine as unreasonable expectations and likely help get the case thrown out.

 

If this circulating NDA is in fact a true document, then it is nothing more then smoke and mirrors. The true legal value of the document is suspect at best and would cost Aventurine far more to enforce then to actually allow breaches. It was a good laugh though.

Good analysis.

 

Anyone here being honest should know that as well.  Basically NDAs are there to try and keep the honest people honest.  Other than that... it's just fluff.

 

Companies do their best to make them sound all scary and legit.  In the end it's just a bluffing game.  It just depends on who wants to call it. 

except in this case they did enforce it
 

Originally posted by downtoearth

Originally posted by xzyax

Originally posted by atziluth

I don't see many thing that are unusual here with their "NDA". The couple of things of note...

1) Having the NDA be binding for 5 years after termination of the beta test. This makes absolutely no sense as the NDA becomes voided once the NDA is lifted. It would never hold up in court and they know it. Why put it in unless either the presented NDA is a fake or Aventurine has no clue what they are doing.

2) Saying that any court proceedings will be under Greece jurisdiction. They well know that they cannot enforce national law if that law is not recognised by the nation that the defendant is a part of. Again this contract holds no weight outside of Greece.

3) They put in a provision that some of the NDA could be found not legally binding. So they themselves acknowledge that parts of this NDA would not hold up in court. This is rather standard however because NDAs and EULAs are difficult to prosecute with.

4) Aventurine implies in the NDA that they do not have to prove and damages in a court, that the court must recognize any breach as irreprable damage with no adaquate monetary value. This is completely untrue and holds no weight in a court of law. In fact this could be used against Aventurine as unreasonable expectations and likely help get the case thrown out.

 

If this circulating NDA is in fact a true document, then it is nothing more then smoke and mirrors. The true legal value of the document is suspect at best and would cost Aventurine far more to enforce then to actually allow breaches. It was a good laugh though.

Good analysis.

 

Anyone here being honest should know that as well.  Basically NDAs are there to try and keep the honest people honest.  Other than that... it's just fluff.

 

Companies do their best to make them sound all scary and legit.  In the end it's just a bluffing game.  It just depends on who wants to call it. 

except in this case they did enforce it
 

Please cite sources and links to the prosecution. Having you claim anything as true is comical. Your reputation has been compromised through endless false posts.

I want court documents showing that the case has been filed and tried. Until then nothing at all has been enforced.

Originally posted by atziluth

Originally posted by downtoearth

Originally posted by xzyax

Originally posted by atziluth

I don't see many thing that are unusual here with their "NDA". The couple of things of note...

1) Having the NDA be binding for 5 years after termination of the beta test. This makes absolutely no sense as the NDA becomes voided once the NDA is lifted. It would never hold up in court and they know it. Why put it in unless either the presented NDA is a fake or Aventurine has no clue what they are doing.

2) Saying that any court proceedings will be under Greece jurisdiction. They well know that they cannot enforce national law if that law is not recognised by the nation that the defendant is a part of. Again this contract holds no weight outside of Greece.

3) They put in a provision that some of the NDA could be found not legally binding. So they themselves acknowledge that parts of this NDA would not hold up in court. This is rather standard however because NDAs and EULAs are difficult to prosecute with.

4) Aventurine implies in the NDA that they do not have to prove and damages in a court, that the court must recognize any breach as irreprable damage with no adaquate monetary value. This is completely untrue and holds no weight in a court of law. In fact this could be used against Aventurine as unreasonable expectations and likely help get the case thrown out.

 

If this circulating NDA is in fact a true document, then it is nothing more then smoke and mirrors. The true legal value of the document is suspect at best and would cost Aventurine far more to enforce then to actually allow breaches. It was a good laugh though.

Good analysis.

 

Anyone here being honest should know that as well.  Basically NDAs are there to try and keep the honest people honest.  Other than that... it's just fluff.

 

Companies do their best to make them sound all scary and legit.  In the end it's just a bluffing game.  It just depends on who wants to call it. 

except in this case they did enforce it
 

Please cite sources and links to the prosecution. Having you claim anything as true is comical. Your reputation has been compromised through endless false posts.

I want court documents showing that the case has been filed and tried. Until then nothing at all has been enforced.

What are you talking about?? Downtoearth is the MAN.  He has a friend of a friend who's cousins uncles, brother (through marriage) in law, aunts sons friend is in beta.  He knows ALL.. DUH