Firefly is dead.
 

Originally posted by Suvroc

When it was originally broadcast I was unfortunetly turned off from the title of the show and the premise of a "western" sci-fi. But after hearing many people talk about it I eventually borrowed the DVD set from a buddy to watch while I had a week off.

The first episode was alright, but as I got to the 3rd show I rushed out and bought the DVD set for myself. I couldn't get enough, and was extremely disappointed to realize that the show was no longer in production.

Part of me would love to see a Firefly MMO but sometimes I think it's better off left alone. It's a great work of entertainment IMO and trying to expand on it would likely only cheapen the experience overall.

I too was turned off by the "western" sci-fi theme, all I kept thinking is, what, these people don't have a budget (like Farscape) for special effects?

I could never get into the show because of the 'earthy' feel of it, though I did like the movie a bit more.

But as someone else said, so far the only MMO's I've raally enjoyed have not been based on a famous non-gaming IP, so I'm not really interested in this one.

Biggest tease of the new year...  I've never clicked a link so fast before.

A buddy of mine was raving about Firefly so I decided to check it out.  Watched the whole season.  Loved it!  I was really sad watching the last one, knowing they were not renewed.  I haven't seen the movie yet but I'm looking forward to it.

I found the sci fi western theme a bit jaring at first, but the more episodes I watched on Hulu the more I got sucked in.  I loved the character development and sense of humor.  And the actors seemed to play well off each other.

If you like sci fi check it out.  They are fun to watch and it's free over at Hulu.  After you see a few episodes maybe you too will become a fan.

As far as a Firefly mmo, not sure.  It might work. 

 Movie was great, never watched the Series though.

I doubt many will read my post this far down the list.. but anyway...

I'm as big a firefly fan as anyone... I know how much Mal's coat sold for on ebay the first AND second time it went up for auction...

The Firefly MMO in supposed development (yes, there is one) is certain to be a disaster, if not vaporware.  Its being made by a nobody using a crappy "make your own MMO" engine. 

More importantly, as much as I would love a Firefly MMO it really wouldnt be that special.. it would just be a typical sci-fi MMO.  Outside the crew of Serenity there isnt anything that terribly special about the Firefly verse... its the characters  and script writing that make Firefly what it is

my 2 cp

PS- Farscape is my 2nd favorite Sci-fi show, followed by the new Galactica... all amazing entertainment, but nothing can touch Firefly. 

As I said it should be a huge sandbox MMORPG.    I know some of you like having your hand held, but I do not, so a sandbox MMORPG I feel would suit a game based on Firefly due to the nature of the show and the Verse in general.  ^_^

Originally posted by sanders01

 Movie was great, never watched the Series though.

The series was better than the movie.

 Space operas are already a bit like fantasy westerns. Leave it to Joss Whedon to underline the obvious. He just loves working those cliches, doesnt he? The show was well made, though, especially the characters. Cursing in Chinese was a nice touch.

Making yet another heavily combat-focused science fiction game is not a bright idea, in my opinion, especially one with FPS combat. Computer games are already walking  the James Cameron path, more so since Doom's space marines. Sci-fi is not about combat and all that militaristic crap, it's about the society and social structures. Where are the Asimovs and Clarkes and LeGuins of the MMO?

Originally posted by solarine

 Space operas are already a bit like fantasy westerns. Leave it to Joss Whedon to underline the obvious. He just loves working those cliches, doesnt he? The show was well made, though, especially the characters. Cursing in Chinese was a nice touch.

Making yet anothercombat-focused science fiction game is not a bright idea, in my opinion, especially one with FPS combat. Computer games are already walking  the James Cameron path, more so since Doom's space marines. Sci-fi is not about combat and all that militaristic crap, it's about ideas and social structures. Where are the Asimovs and Clarkes and LeGuins of the MMO?

 

 

You wouldnt say EVE is Asimov and Clark?

As for workin/ re-inventing cliche, nothing wrong with that if it's done with a twist and solid writing, which I think Whedon is a master at. I think from the tone of your post that you think that anyhow tho :)

And yes, to previous poster, if you liked the film Serenity, you will LOVE the series Firefly. No doubt.

Not exactly a Firefly MMO per se, but a Firefly-like space game with planetary settlements, different cultures and shady institutions would be nice. Just don't take the IP itself, it's not wholly original anyway.

Me, I'd say both EVE and Firefly are a bit Asimov-like, because the whole spacefaring part of the deal is built solely on humans and not vraious alien species... That's a lot like old school science fiction in the vein of Asimov.

:rolls eyes:

Yeah would definately be cool. Doesn't have to be firefly but a sandbox game with planet exploration and ship combat, maybe like freelancer or something. It could have a mix of ideas from many sci-fi shows such as farscape, stargate, firefly. Im not a fan of any sci-fi shows, but a game, I could really get into if done well.

Any ideas such as this that are actually unique would be awesome. For instance I thought Sword of the new world had an awesome setting and atmosphere. It definately had the right idea, trying to be different, if you ask me. Poorly executed game in the end though. I personally would be extremely pleased seeing an MMO with ancient japan seting with samurais, Kabuki warriors and dragons, etc. Also a western setting would be pretty awesome too, with bandits, mercs, indian tribes in cool looking deserts, canyons and all that! Nice one OP! :)

If only 2009 would bring a first class Firefly MMORPG and a second season TV series that was as good as the first.

The problem is that the company that has the IP has no track record in MMO's hence the chances of them putting together a decent game is slim and none.

Everyone wants to make a good MMO, but few have the talent to do so.

But I do completely agree, a firefly MMO done as a sandbox would be a dream come true.

Totally agree, we need more GOOD sci fi sand box mmos, with both fps aspects, and maybe a space combat/ vehicle combat aspect.

Originally posted by solarine

 Sci-fi is not about combat and all that militaristic crap, it's about the society and social structures. Where are the Asimovs and Clarkes and LeGuins of the MMO?

 

That's your opinion and you are welcome to share it....as I share mine.   I prefer the militaristic crap, raiding, pillaging and plundering...be it in a medieval setting or a futuristic one...give me a fast mount, a sharp sword and or a good blaster/pistol and a world to adventure in and I will play as long as it is a sandbox game with FPS type combat ala M&B!  Woohoo!

Ah yes, Firefly... I watched that.  Albeit, I was held a gunpoint by one of my friends to do so.  Not one of my favorite shows; there was almost no back story.  Some guy was in a war, some girl was a science experiment, lets go bounty hunting.... on horses and space ships!  There wasn't enough lore in the series to show where they are, how they got there and what the full extent of their technology is.

Now an Andromeda MMO..... by the way have I shown you my force lance?

Oh what a dream that would be!  Unfortunately, MULTIVERSE owns the rights to a FIREFLY MMORPG and they're focusing on a BUFFY THE VAMPIRE SLAYER mmorpg right now and have put firefly onto the bakcburner... however, the good news is MULTIVERSE have stated that they don't intend to develop the Firefly MMORPG themselves which is ONLY good because... well, they suck.

In any event, a while ago when rumors were huge for a Firefly MMORPG I was bored and excited at the prospect so I did this up:

Firefly Online MMORPG Design Document – Alpha NOTES

Here is my proposal for the Firefly MMORPG. Feel free to comment – I love constructive criticism. Hope you enjoy:

Game Design: No More Numbers! No More Clones!

Imagine a game where the focus is NOT grinding for those little experience points to add up until you can level. Instead, there is a more realistic driving force. Where role playing is rewarded and combat is action oriented. Where the driving forces are wealth, reputation and adventure. But of course the most important driving force is the simplest; good old fun.

I don’t know about you, but I’m bored of the tedium. Bored of chores and grinding boars. No more Kill X boars – instead, missions that matter and make more common sense.

Any and all calculations are done in the back end; that is out of the player’s view off in softwareland. Much like in reality, when I swing a bat to hit a baseball, my probability of a successful strike isn’t calculated before my eyes but I know that my practice has increased my chances of success. Not only would this leave the screen free of a lot of clutter, it would make the experience that much more exciting. Not knowing things for certain adds a level of danger and an element of surprise, making encounters more suspenseful and interesting. With the ‘numbers’ out of sight, they are out of mind allowing players to focus and enjoy the game.

CHARACTERS
-Creation: During this stage, the players would obviously create their avatar’s physical appearance most likely through sliders governing features such as body size and shape as well as many details for hair styles etc.
Step 1: Male or Female
Step 2: Define Physical Shape [Overall Body, Head, Face, Nose etc.]
Step 3: Define Physical Details [Hair, Eyes, scars, beginner clothing]
Step 4: Skills [Combat, Ship and Professional Skills. More on this in SKILLS section]
Step 5: Character Trait [Players may choose just one natural ability or endowment which aids the character. Some examples: Tough = Able to take more damage; Agile = Slightly better with weapons causing more damage to enemies; Charming = Convincing against NPC’s unlocking certain dialogue options; Intelligent = Professional Skills are slightly enhanced; etc.]
Step 6: Choose Faction [Players choose between ALLIANCE, NEUTRAL and OUTLAW factions. Those serving the Alliance are upholders of the law and the bounty hunters who uphold the law for profit. Outlaws are smugglers, pirates and renegades while Neutrals are mostly comprised of merchants and business folk who just try to earn an honest living and stay out of the crossfire. Each faction has benefits and drawbacks]
Step 7: Choose World [From a list of worlds affiliated with the chosen faction]
-Customization: After a character is created, they can feel free to further customize themselves by acquiring jewelry, tattoos [Which can be removed for a price], haircuts/dyes, visit tailors for clothing modifications, weapons, armour and even tools which all show on the character.
-Progression: While the focus of the game isn’t like in standard MMORPG’s where progression is a measure of Experience Points and Levels to show everyone how powerful you are, character progression does occur. It simply happens in a more natural and realistic way.

Now that your character is out and about the Verse, they will encounter many quests. Most of these quests will offer money, which is quite important to gain all sorts of character and eventually ship enhancements as well as all services. During the missions, you will more than likely have to use certain skills you have. Every time this occurs, your character is actually getting slightly better at that particular task.

Also, as you accomplish missions for your faction, you begin to build your reputation which then unlocks new content such as more missions with greater rewards, new secret locations and more.

The more renown you become, possibilities to join larger organizations open up. Members of the Alliance can join the Elite Agency of law enforcers and become agents of the Alliance. Members of the Neutral faction can join the Trade Federation and gain access to money making opportunities while enjoying the benefits of cheaper crafting resource prices. Members of the Outlaw faction can join the Syndicate which is essentially the organized crime network, gaining great influence and access to new heists and criminal missions.

At the same time, depending on the decisions made during conversations players can unlock the ability to join other factions as well or even become double agents within each other’s networks.

All of this information is recorded in your personal journal. Here you can keep track of all missions undertaken and even important choices made during conversations, as the book logs your adventure. There is also a section for you to write your character’s biography as well as a section for random notes of whatever you wish to write. The Map section of your journal updates constantly with all locations you discover, however maps for many areas can also be purchased. These maps, though detailed would most certainly be lacking in information and areas which must be explored to be found.

SHIPS
Starships are not cheap, and thus it is more than likely that a group of players will have to band together and purchase one; though it is possible to become wealthy enough to buy your own. Many ships can form alliances or ‘Guilds/Clans/Fleets’. Any player invited by a member of a ship may board that ship [Access list settings would allow the owner(s) of the vessel to define players who are allowed to enter the ship] however they would not be allowed to use the ship systems [Helm, Engineering and Artillery. More on these later in the Space Combat section].

Once a ship is purchased, it serves as a ‘home’ to all its owners whom have equal control and possession over it. Characters can ‘Return to Ship’ quickly from almost anywhere except from within instanced missions. Here, characters heal twice as fast as normally. A medic’s ability to heal characters is also doubled on board the ship. If a character is left behind on a world, they can simply ‘Return to Ship’ however they will not be able to return to the planet they came from in such a way. The ship must be piloted to a new destination to exit.

All ships available for purchase to players would be roughly the same size, allowing for a crew of no more than 6 to 12. Each faction would have ships of their own, but all ships would be further customizable in appearance and of course, upgradeable parts.

SKILLS
These skills are chosen during character creation, preparing your character to jump in and start playing the game right away. The focus is to have a fairly developed character that’s ready for adventure, rather than the same old Level 1 ‘Kill some Rats until you’re level 100’ style of progression. Instead, as you play and make use of your skills, they will evolve more naturally and over time become gradually better. As stated before, all the calculations would be done behind the scenes as you are meant to enjoy the game rather than worry about the math.

COMBAT SKILLS – Choose one EXPERT, one PROFICIENT and one NOVICE. Effectiveness and Speed of combat rate heighten with expertise. Here are a few examples of combat skills:
-Unarmed [Brawling, Trained, Martial Arts]
-Pistols [Expert allows Dual Wielding]
-Sniper Rifle
-Assault Rifle
-Explosives
-Blades [Expert allows Dual Wielding; blades cause deep wounds and thus cause opponents cut to bleed faster and lose health quicker. This is a bonus due to the fact that it is much more difficult to hit someone with these weapons during combat than firearms]

SHIP SKILLS – Choose one EXPERT, one PROFICIENT and one NOVICE. All players get these three skills, it’s simply a matter of what order they prefer them in. With these three skills, players can join any crew and automatically be useful in some way on board a ship.

-Piloting – Mobility [NOVICE pilots would experience difficult control while ships would respond very well to EXPERT pilots]
-Engineering – Repairs [Novice Engineers would repair very little while attempting to fix the ship while EXPERTS would repair more damage in shorter time]
-Artillery – Firepower [NOVICE gunners would do very little harm to enemy ships in combat while EXPERT gunners would cause greater damage]

PROFESSIONAL SKILLS – Players would choose a set number of EXPERT, PROFICIENT and NOVICE skills from the Professional Skills list. The below is a mere example of a few Professional Skills:

Negotiation – negotiation works for selling/buying as well as conversation options with NPCs
Medicine – Creation of medpacks and healing players
Armoury – Creation and repair of personal body armour
Weaponry – Creation and repair of personal weaponry
Stylist – Haircuts, Tattoo’s and piercings
Artisan – Creating instruments, Dancing, Playing instruments allows characters to make a small amount of money from locals with a cool down timer to avoid bots/spamming the ability.
Prospector – Allows mining and tempering of ores which can be used by armourers and weaponsmiths.

QUEST LINES – CHOOSE YOUR OWN ADVENTURE!
An element MMORPG’s need to adopt from single player RPG’s or even the old ‘Choose your own Adventure’ books, is choices. During your adventures, you will encounter NPC’s and situations where you must make decisions which will ultimately have an effect on your future. They will close some doors and open others.

An example of choices when speaking with an important NPC and having to decide. While conversing with an NPC, the camera view would pull in close and black fields at the top and bottom would appear [Letterbox View]. The top would provide NPC dialogue wile the bottom presents choices for you to answer with:
 

LAND GAMEPLAY:
-Style : Default third person with aiming reticule as well as customizable ‘opacity’ allowing you to see through your avatar if you wish. Aiming reticule controls view direction/aim when Mouse button 2 [Right Mouse Button] is held down, otherwise it allows the player to look freely around the character. A 1st person perspective can also be toggled. The screen would show no signs of a heads up display [HUD] except the chat windows in the lower left and a mini-map of the near by area in the top right [Both of which can be toggled off or their opacity can be lowered].
-Missions : Speaking with the NPC’s [As illustrated above] would allow players to gain a variety of different missions [More on this in the MISSIONS section].
-Combat : Pressing Mouse button 1 [Left Mouse Button] puts the character into Combat Mode at which time the aiming reticule turns into crosshairs and remains as the active view direction while attacking. M1 also fires weapons when pressed from this time on, if there is a firearm equipped. Animations for weapon use depend on skill level. Combat Mode remains on until manually released by a mapped key back into Safe Mode, holstering or sheathing any weapons and returning the mouse to free look.

During combat, 4 counter bars appear. They will remain visible even after combat is done if there was any kind of depletion which occurred in the following four areas:

-Health Bar – Appears during combat or while hurt. When hurt, must return to your ship, a medical facility or seek aid from someone with medical knowledge.
-Armour Bar – Depends on the armour you wear. This absorbs most damage and thus depletes completely before health in most combat situations [gasses for example would affect health but not armour]. Damaged armour can be repaired by anyone skilled in armoury or an NPC amourer for a price.
-Combat Bar – Depletes with use of ammunition or ‘stamina’ in the case of melee combat [must have ammunition in inventory for firearms]. In the beginning of combat, this bar will always appear full unless there is no ammunition available. If there are only two bullets for instance, the bar will drain by 50% after the first shot is fired.
-Weapon Bar – Weapons wear slowly during use and there is a chance of them even being damaged. These can be repaired by a weaponsmith or an NPC weaponsmith.

A small bar for your health and armour counter over the heads of enemies, group members and all other players can be toggled on/off. Though this image is far from accurate, I made it quickly to help illustrate what combat mode could look like.

A medic’s effort to keep you healthy while your character is taking damage in a fight is greatly reduced [common sense]. If you are badly wounded in combat, you better seek cover or even retreat completely if you do not want to take the risk being incapacitated. When you are incapacitated, a medic can restore you. If a medic cannot get to you within a certain time, you will be ‘mugged’ for your possessions.

While incapacitated, you are given the options to ‘Retreat to Safety’, ‘Wait for a Medic’ or ‘Accept Death’. Retreating to Safety will take you to a medical center or your ship, whichever is closer; however you will suffer a healing penalty which will not allow you to engage in any combat for 30 minutes thereafter while you are in recovery. If you choose to wait for a medic, you could become fully healed and keep fighting. However, as stated before if a medic cannot revive you in time, you will be forced to retreat or accept death. If you choose the option to ‘Accept Death’, it will end and effectively delete the character [for the Hardcore amongst you]. When a character dies, all their wealth stored in their bank account may be claimed at the bank by any other character you have. If the money saved by the character which died is not claimed within a set time by another character which is currently alive, the money will be lost forever.

INVENTORY
Items which are being carried by a character have images which take up a number of spots to realistically limit carrying capacity. Something large like an assault rifle takes up a fair bit of space, thus allowing you to carry less. Below, you can see how the size of objects you carry affects your maximum holding space. This is a more realistic approach to item holding. Also, since the game isn’t about grinding for millions of little collectables, not as much space is necessary.
 

Originally posted by Teala

Originally posted by solarine

 Sci-fi is not about combat and all that militaristic crap, it's about the society and social structures. Where are the Asimovs and Clarkes and LeGuins of the MMO?

 

 

That's your opinion and you are welcome to share it....as I share mine.   I prefer the militaristic crap, raiding, pillaging and plundering...be it in a medieval setting or a futuristic one...give me a fast mount, a sharp sword and or a good blaster/pistol and a world to adventure in and I will play as long as it is a sandbox game with FPS type combat ala M&B!  Woohoo!

Come now, Teala, is there really a point in saying "it's your opinion" in discussion forums, over an argument like this? It's obvious something like genre categorization is not set in stone, it's always somebody's opinion. Isn't that the point?

I wrote the above, because I'm a fan of the genre and that distinction has been one of the major points of progress in the history of science fiction. Because ultimately it was the writers who managed to make the stories more than just about ships and blasters that gave the genre any breadth, any sophistication and consequently any  literary significance at all. Writers like Clarke, Asimov, Dick, LeGuin, Matheson and Ellison. In these writers' works, wars are born of societies, not the other around. Of course, Star Wars re-introduced that ghetto in a big way, but thankfully the legacy for more sophisticated science fiction was already there as well.   

Of course you have every right to not be interested in these, to just go on and prefer the militaristic stuff. What I'm saying is, that stuff does not intrinsically have what made science fiction as a genre special - given it's then just the same old epics in different settings. I'm saying let's have some sci-fi that's not superficial, not only about ships and blasters - because, yes, basing a genre just on its cosmetic elements is the epitome of superficiality. Let's have some science fiction with intelligence, seeing as how it's been the genre's saving grace before. Of course you might understandably say this is ultimately about gaming and space operas work better in games... Well, then count me among those bored with the reigning mechanics of the genre. I'm hoping for something new.

And no, Vesavius, I would not say EVE is Clarke or Asimov. Not to me. EVE, as good as it is, is based primarily on war. The main attraction of Asimov or Clarke, in my opinion, was never war itelf. (And yes, I too like what Whedon does with cliche, though it's hard not to jibe about the extent of his reliance on it ).

Loved the series .... loved the movie .... to little content for an MMO universer though ....

Though i would love to visit Jaynestown one day ....

I loved the series, but also think its not possible to make a MMO about it without losing the special mood and atmosphere of the series.

Most of scenes happen on the Firefly and a few on some worlds. But you dont see much of those worlds, they all look very like surroundings in western movies. If you would have to create worlds to play on for the MMO, it would immediately lose the special Firefly vibe. Also with creating other ships and your own characters.

Apart from the crew and the ship, there isnt much clearly defined in those series. Just a couple of different backgrounds, so to me it doesnt have the substance needed to convert in a MMO.

A series like Babylon 5 would be better for a MMO because at least you already have defined races and spaceships and a huge spacestation and Mars to start with. It also has defined factions and an epic backbone story in the form of those dark things (forgot the names).

Firefly however, is more like a soap. Small cast and limited backdrops. Not much to use for a MMO anyway.