Originally posted by Aragon100

Originally posted by SpyridonZ

Originally posted by Pale_Fire

Community.

I'd like to preface my observations with the clarification that I'm not making a global indictment on Darkfall forum posters.

That being said, that community is inhabited by some of the most vile, rude, crude, grammar impaired, immature brats I've ever run across.  I thought WoW had a nasty bunch (and it does) and Vanguard's community had some real gems when it was in development.  But man, it seemed like every other post on the official DF forums had a blistering list of responses whose only purpose was to insult and denigrate the OP.   Oddly, I don't see it on these DF forums so much, at least not to the degree as the Aventurine forums.

Of course, I realize not all DF fans are like that, any more than all WoW players are like that.  It was just shocking to see the number of insulting responses to posts on so many posts.  

But, typical of hardcore pvp games, you'd better have a thick skin, because the personalities don't get sweeter in the game. 

 

Yeah, either the younger the player base, or more hardcore-PvP the player base, the worst the community.

Even AoC, which wasnt hardcore PvP, had a horrible community. Expect worse from Darkfall.

 

Sorry but your totally wrong.

Games with makebelief PvP like Age of Conan and WoW with a also very poor alignment systems have the worst griefers, by far. There you find the childish gankers that kill anything with no risk vs reward or consequences at all. A safe gameworld for the immature gankers.

Darkfall have a on paper way better alignment system that will cater for less gankings and most that will take place is btw players that accept being ganked cause thats how conquest and racial warfare is. The real hardcore games like UO pre-trammel and all the way too Age of Shadows were introduced february 2003 had the best and most mature community i seen in any game based on PvP.

WoW and Age of Conan is examples of games that have the worst community.

UO had a good community if you count everyone as a whole, but what about if you only count the hardcore PvPers?

Same with AC, most ppl were in huge guilds with a bad community, but stayed to win.

DF is closest to SB, which also had a very bad community. Eve - the PvE'ers arent so bad, but hang out in 0.0 and you have mostly trash talking gate campers or zergers.

AoC and WoW as I listed... PvP servers are a worse community then the non-PvP ones. WoW of course doesnt have thegreatest community even on PvE servers because of all the young'uns.

Play PvE games such as LoTRO, and youll find a much better community.

Even WoW, the PvP'ers are a better community then FFA PvP games, such as AoC and SB.

The added element of FFA is great because of the added politics etc, I just wish the community was a bit better. LoTRO's community was amazing but the game bored me without PvP.

Also, if you notice, in the recent years, communitys of all games are getting worse and worse. I'm assuming because they are becoming more mainstream. 10 years ago, we just had occasional angry nerds, now we have all sorts of new people to deal with..  idiotic kids, argumentative punks,  etc... plus the angry nerds

the reason the market is getting more full of people is 6 years ago the English speaking markets was a 1/10th of what WoW's total subs are today, don't take that statement as a complete fact but it's the truth.
 
MMOs blew up with WoW, and WoW did a great justice for the market by showing people these type of games are fun and paying a monthly fee for a game that has steady content added to it is worth it. But along with every good thing to come out of something there is always an equal and opposite reaction... that is now instead of being older teenagers to older adults dominating the market it is now the preteen to mid teen "I want instant gratification" consumers that are the dominating factor.

DFO will be full of the elite "I am better then thou" players forever, that is what the PvP crowd has always been like, it is just the level of maturity that use to go into a good board warrior topic has dropped so low that it's actually kinda sad.

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Originally posted by Makestro

 

the reason the market is getting more full of people is 6 years ago the English speaking markets was a 1/10th of what WoW's total subs are today, don't take that statement as a complete fact but it's the truth.
 
MMOs blew up with WoW, and WoW did a great justice for the market by showing people these type of games are fun and paying a monthly fee for a game that has steady content added to it is worth it. But along with every good thing to come out of something there is always an equal and opposite reaction... that is now instead of being older teenagers to older adults dominating the market it is now the preteen to mid teen "I want instant gratification" consumers that are the dominating factor.
DFO will be full of the elite "I am better then thou" players forever, that is what the PvP crowd has always been like, it is just the level of maturity that use to go into a good board warrior topic has dropped so low that it's actually kinda sad.

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Actually WoW did a lot more. Before WoW there was only EQ and the stigma that EQ players had was horrendous. Reports of people killing other in RL because of the game were rapampant. What WoW did was turn that MMO player stereotype around. My friend said it best

"WoW turned the way people viewed MMO players from Jukies shooting up in their parents basement to the avg joe"

and thats the truth. WoW brought MMO games, and those who play them into the main steam.

Originally posted by Pale_Fire

Community.

I'd like to preface my observations with the clarification that I'm not making a global indictment on Darkfall forum posters.

That being said, that community is inhabited by some of the most vile, rude, crude, grammar impaired, immature brats I've ever run across.  I thought WoW had a nasty bunch (and it does) and Vanguard's community had some real gems when it was in development.  But man, it seemed like every other post on the official DF forums had a blistering list of responses whose only purpose was to insult and denigrate the OP.   Oddly, I don't see it on these DF forums so much, at least not to the degree as the Aventurine forums.

Of course, I realize not all DF fans are like that, any more than all WoW players are like that.  It was just shocking to see the number of insulting responses to posts on so many posts.  

But, typical of hardcore pvp games, you'd better have a thick skin, because the personalities don't get sweeter in the game. 

One thing tho, thoose cocky loud mouth people on the forums are gonna get there's when the game is out, most of all thoose trolls have it all in their words, when it comes to actual gameplay, their a bunch of apologizing carebears.

Take them with a grain of salt.

In my opinion, what will make or break DF, (assuming it survives launch, and isn't horribly flawed) is forum wars.

Shadowbane runs to this day (though F2P) due largely in part to forum wars.  Forum politics adds an amazing complexity to that game.  You have alliances being formed and broken, guilds calling each other out...hell, I've seen people beaten down and forced to quit the game because they were jerks and everyone got tired of it and agreed they were KOS to EVERYONE.

If DF fosters that kind of community involvement, the game may well thrive, even if it is buggy and what not.

If they don't, then you'll have some gankers who own everything and everyone else will quit.  (maybe, I could be wrong.)

I think the community itself will even out once the game goes live.  There will be some jerks, there always are, but you'll be able to find a middle ground of personality somewhere. (at least hopefully.)

Originally posted by daelnor

In my opinion, what will make or break DF, (assuming it survives launch, and isn't horribly flawed) is forum wars.

Shadowbane runs to this day (though F2P) due largely in part to forum wars.  Forum politics adds an amazing complexity to that game.  You have alliances being formed and broken, guilds calling each other out...hell, I've seen people beaten down and forced to quit the game because they were jerks and everyone got tired of it and agreed they were KOS to EVERYONE.

If DF fosters that kind of community involvement, the game may well thrive, even if it is buggy and what not.

If they don't, then you'll have some gankers who own everything and everyone else will quit.  (maybe, I could be wrong.)

I think the community itself will even out once the game goes live.  There will be some jerks, there always are, but you'll be able to find a middle ground of personality somewhere. (at least hopefully.)

 

Since AoC has these forum wars,  I don't see any reason why a FFA Full Loot PvP wouldn't. What causes these wars is the players that FFA PvP attracts, especially if PvE isn't required to be good and the game is player skill>gear.

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Originally posted by xpiher

 

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Originally posted by Makestro
 
the reason the market is getting more full of people is 6 years ago the English speaking markets was a 1/10th of what WoW's total subs are today, don't take that statement as a complete fact but it's the truth.
 
MMOs blew up with WoW, and WoW did a great justice for the market by showing people these type of games are fun and paying a monthly fee for a game that has steady content added to it is worth it. But along with every good thing to come out of something there is always an equal and opposite reaction... that is now instead of being older teenagers to older adults dominating the market it is now the preteen to mid teen "I want instant gratification" consumers that are the dominating factor.
DFO will be full of the elite "I am better then thou" players forever, that is what the PvP crowd has always been like, it is just the level of maturity that use to go into a good board warrior topic has dropped so low that it's actually kinda sad.

---

 
Actually WoW did a lot more. Before WoW there was only EQ and the stigma that EQ players had was horrendous. Reports of people killing other in RL because of the game were rapampant. What WoW did was turn that MMO player stereotype around. My friend said it best
"WoW turned the way people viewed MMO players from Jukies shooting up in their parents basement to the avg joe" and thats the truth. WoW brought MMO games, and those who play them into the main steam.
 

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Originally posted by Makestro

the reason the market is getting more full of people is 6 years ago the English speaking markets was a 1/10th of what WoW's total subs are today, don't take that statement as a complete fact but it's the truth.
 
MMOs blew up with WoW, and WoW did a great justice for the market by showing people these type of games are fun and paying a monthly fee for a game that has steady content added to it is worth it. But along with every good thing to come out of something there is always an equal and opposite reaction... that is now instead of being older teenagers to older adults dominating the market it is now the preteen to mid teen "I want instant gratification" consumers that are the dominating factor.

DFO will be full of the elite "I am better then thou" players forever, that is what the PvP crowd has always been like, it is just the level of maturity that use to go into a good board warrior topic has dropped so low that it's actually kinda sad.

The forum issues are mostly due to the developers not moderating them properly.

Whether you like WAR or not, Mark Jacobs had it right when he stated "I do not want to have official forums unless we are able to implement it properly".

Forums that are not moderated have a negative effect on games, plain and simple. If you talk to players that never checked the forums, its like they are blissfully ignorant. Yet talk to someone who reads forums, and they just happen to have the same negative things to say as the people on forums.

It basically trains people to look for the things they read about subconciously. That's why you see people in games with a max lvl of 50 for example, and at 25 they are saying the end-game sucks.

Forums should be meant for constructive conversation, a place to find information about the game, and a way to spread the community aspects of the game. Sadly many people dont use them for this...

Originally posted by Makestro

 

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Originally posted by xpiher

 

 

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Originally posted by Makestro
 
the reason the market is getting more full of people is 6 years ago the English speaking markets was a 1/10th of what WoW's total subs are today, don't take that statement as a complete fact but it's the truth.
 
MMOs blew up with WoW, and WoW did a great justice for the market by showing people these type of games are fun and paying a monthly fee for a game that has steady content added to it is worth it. But along with every good thing to come out of something there is always an equal and opposite reaction... that is now instead of being older teenagers to older adults dominating the market it is now the preteen to mid teen "I want instant gratification" consumers that are the dominating factor.
DFO will be full of the elite "I am better then thou" players forever, that is what the PvP crowd has always been like, it is just the level of maturity that use to go into a good board warrior topic has dropped so low that it's actually kinda sad.

 

 

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Actually WoW did a lot more. Before WoW there was only EQ and the stigma that EQ players had was horrendous. Reports of people killing other in RL because of the game were rapampant. What WoW did was turn that MMO player stereotype around. My friend said it best
"WoW turned the way people viewed MMO players from Jukies shooting up in their parents basement to the avg joe" and thats the truth. WoW brought MMO games, and those who play them into the main steam.
 

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Yeah but that is kinda the MMO gamer in the publics eye who don't play them. This is more or less about the community over on the darkfall forums that are basically a bunch of internet thugs and day dreamer glorifying the game to the point they're going to be disappointed because they have unrealistic expectations.... What is completely Tasos and the DFO developer's fault for keeping everyone in the dark for some many years.
 
Even though I'll never activate my WoW account again because I have no intentions on leveling to 80 I've always said WoW was the game that set the mmo market in stone... I mean look at how many games have been pumped out since it came out? Almost as much as the entire industry seen prior to it's launch. That is amazing. WoW is just not my game, and as far as I know Darkfall might not be also, but I highly doubt that because the 3 things I know are in game are more then enough reason for me to play it until something better comes along(mortal online, for example might be a better game bu who knows?).
 
 

 

True, WoW was a blessing and a curse in my opinion though.

It brought us mainstream yes, but now MMO's are being made solely to appeal to the masses for the most part. That's one thing that makes DF unique in a way.

I miss the old days of MMO's though. They were very complex, and I LOVED that. You couldnt just hop on UO, or AC and expect to know everything. You had something to learn, followed by something to master.

The last MMO's that were this way were the 2nd-gen ones... AO and EVE. Everyone has hopes for DF, but we have doubts as well. I wish the companies such as Blizzard that we do not doubt would make a game similar to DF.

But they wont. They turned in to a money train. They want to appeal to the masses. Youd think with their limit less funds it would be enough.

But now they are releasing SC2 as 3 games instead of one... and "were not able to confirm or deny that battle.net is going to remain free". This at least says they are considering adding a price to it, which alone is a slap in the loyal customers faces.

After spending a few hours in that cesspool of a forum, I want nothing to do with this game! I attribute the disgust to that community. 

Originally posted by Cablespider

Originally posted by SpyridonZ

Originally posted by Makestro

the reason the market is getting more full of people is 6 years ago the English speaking markets was a 1/10th of what WoW's total subs are today, don't take that statement as a complete fact but it's the truth.
 
MMOs blew up with WoW, and WoW did a great justice for the market by showing people these type of games are fun and paying a monthly fee for a game that has steady content added to it is worth it. But along with every good thing to come out of something there is always an equal and opposite reaction... that is now instead of being older teenagers to older adults dominating the market it is now the preteen to mid teen "I want instant gratification" consumers that are the dominating factor.

DFO will be full of the elite "I am better then thou" players forever, that is what the PvP crowd has always been like, it is just the level of maturity that use to go into a good board warrior topic has dropped so low that it's actually kinda sad.

 

The forum issues are mostly due to the developers not moderating them properly.

Whether you like WAR or not, Mark Jacobs had it right when he stated "I do not want to have official forums unless we are able to implement it properly".

Forums that are not moderated have a negative effect on games, plain and simple. If you talk to players that never checked the forums, its like they are blissfully ignorant. Yet talk to someone who reads forums, and they just happen to have the same negative things to say as the people on forums.

It basically trains people to look for the things they read about subconciously. That's why you see people in games with a max lvl of 50 for example, and at 25 they are saying the end-game sucks.

Forums should be meant for constructive conversation, a place to find information about the game, and a way to spread the community aspects of the game. Sadly many people dont use them for this...

After spending a few hours in that cesspool of a forum, I want nothing to do with this game! I attribute the disgust with that community. 

I'm assuming this is meant towards WAR?

They do not have an official forum. That's why I mentioned his comment.

He said he would not implement them unless EA was able to implement them properly when it comes to moderation, etc.

That is why they do not have an official forum. The ones you see are an example of the bad ones that should be avoided.

Forums really should be moderated well for games like that , especially the first 6months-year.

(Edit: Re-reading I think you may mean DF, but incase you mean WAR, you have my response lol)

Originally posted by Cablespider

After spending a few hours in that cesspool of a forum, I want nothing to do with this game! I attribute the disgust to that community. 

You do know the reason these forums turned that way was because of people coming into them constantly trash talking the game right? Had people not been trolls these forums would be a much friendly place. So don't put the blame soely on the players that are intrested in the game, blame the WoW trads and fans of other games that are worried their guild will lose members due to this game being released.

 Its been this way ever since the noobs showed up in August when beta was announced. There are so many stupid questions, stupid threads, that regular forum posters that aren't already in beta, have had enough. 

Originally posted by xpiher

Originally posted by Cablespider

After spending a few hours in that cesspool of a forum, I want nothing to do with this game! I attribute the disgust to that community. 

 

You do know the reason these forums turned that way was because of people coming into them constantly trash talking the game right? Had people not been trolls these forums would be a much friendly place. So don't put the blame soely on the players that are intrested in the game, blame the WoW trads and fans of other games that are worried their guild will lose members due to this game being released.

There will always be pepole like that though. Thats why good moderation is so important...

forum trolls are usually nobodies in-game

forum trolls for unreleased games are usually just haters hoping the game will fail.. most wont even play the game if released, they just wanna keep hating the players for liking the game..

forums are not games...

OP, does your impression can be related with the fact you a vaportroll ?

Title of  your last thread here  was:

"Darkfall Through the Eyes of a VaporTroll"

Did you tried approaching official forums with such a mindset ?

i get it, you like to provoke, but can't stand the heat ..

If you think the official community boards are bad 2 weeks from launch think about what the beta forums are currently like.

One things for certain, Aventurines "active and very passionate community" is going to continue to provide a great deal of entertainment, especially around the 22nd.

Drama... It is all about drama. Many people live, breathe, feed, sleep and live off drama. It just comes natural to them. They love to go in and stir up trouble. Of course I cannot say the root of why they love to do what they do. Maybe it is because on their own insecuritties or they simple love to see other people go outside their own character and act in a manner that makes them look foolish. Whatever the case maybe, there will always people like that in this world.

I just learn to try and ignore those kind of people the best I can. There are a few times, I find myself "out of character". But for the most part, I will just crank up my music, rock on, and forget about it!  

Originally posted by SignusM

 Its been this way ever since the noobs showed up in August when beta was announced. There are so many stupid questions, stupid threads, that regular forum posters that aren't already in beta, have had enough. 

Nonsense, Forum Fall has been a cesspool for many years, they have always prided themselves in belittling posters with questions about the game.  (never saw so many "do your research" responses).

That's OK, in a few weeks trolls should be able to mock the game with valid complaints......

Originally posted by Pale_Fire

Community.

I'd like to preface my observations with the clarification that I'm not making a global indictment on Darkfall forum posters.

That being said, that community is inhabited by some of the most vile, rude, crude, grammar impaired, immature brats I've ever run across.  I thought WoW had a nasty bunch (and it does) and Vanguard's community had some real gems when it was in development.  But man, it seemed like every other post on the official DF forums had a blistering list of responses whose only purpose was to insult and denigrate the OP.   Oddly, I don't see it on these DF forums so much, at least not to the degree as the Aventurine forums.

Of course, I realize not all DF fans are like that, any more than all WoW players are like that.  It was just shocking to see the number of insulting responses to posts on so many posts.  

But, typical of hardcore pvp games, you'd better have a thick skin, because the personalities don't get sweeter in the game. 

The atmosphere was like that here, but is now curiously subdued. It's like the fans are hunkered down, waiting.

Release is only a couple of weeks away, still no break in the NDA. Everything is sort of on standby till they lift that NDA.

Originally posted by Briansho

Hah, wait until you get in game and start playing. That will be the survival of the fittest and you will see who has a strong stomach when they start losing items and die to another player and not a scripted mob.

The very reason why most MMO players are not going to play this game. 

 How old do you mean when you talk about "younger players" ruining the community. I am relatively young (not saying how young) and i'm  not immature at all.

Originally posted by DarthRaiden

OP, does your impression can be related with the fact you a vaportroll ?

Title of  your last thread here  was:

"Darkfall Through the Eyes of a VaporTroll"

Did you tried approaching official forums with such a mindset ?

i get it, you like to provoke, but can't stand the heat ..

 

Yes, I'm a troll when it comes to DF, but if you read the post with that title you'd find I have been pretty fair with the game.  And, believe it or not, I sincerely hope the game succeeds, as I've mentioned in other posts. 

The market needs DF to succeed because it needs games that break the current mold.  DF is niche and it needs to stay niche to succeed.  It can't compete with the WoWs and EQs in the market and it shouldn't try to.

But, it's chances of sending a positive message and establishing credibility as a game with a worthwhile target market is not made easier with a community with a vocal minority of socially dysfunctional half wit teenagers lobbing one liners composed of random vowels and consonants that is supposed to pass as the English language.

I'm not sure a lack of a global chat channel in game is good or not.  Maybe you don't get the same sense of community in game but, then, maybe that's a good thing in this case.

Hopefully, things change when the game releases, if it releases (remember, I'm a vaportroll).