Scenario #1:

You are at the Bank with a couple of your buddies dropping off some of your recent loot you've acquired.  Suddenly, you are ambushed by another group of players.  You and one of your buddies is killed, as well as a couple of the attackers.  Your last buddy then tries to frantically loot you and your buddies corpses before they are picked clean by the other players that stood by and watched the fight. 

How often will something like that happen?

What could you do to prevent it?

Would you try and take vengance on anyone that looted your corpse?  (The Devs have said we will be notified somehow when other players loot our corpse).

Scenario #2:

You are with a decent-sized group of your Clan down in a dungeon.  After a few hours of working your way down to the Lair at the bottom you finally kill the mob and take your rewards.  On the journey back out of the dungeon, you encounter a larger Clan that tells you they own this dungeon and your Clan will need to pay them a "FEE" for entering it.  The "FEE" is all the Rewards that you just spent the last few hours trying to aquire.  Knowing that your Clan will all die in trying to escape without paying the "FEE"... you reluctantly hand it over.

How often will something like that happen?

What could you do to prevent it?

Scenario #3:

Your group has just ambushed a small party of Enemy Faction players as they were leaving a small dungeon.  Each of the players you've killed has quite a stash of decent loot on them.  You notice a couple members of your group are looting each body in turn as they die rather than wait until everyone is killed.  They are taking only the loot that sells for the highest amount as well as any other very nice items.  By the time you and the rest of the group finally finish killing the entire party... there isn't much left to loot except for some very heavy items that don't sell for much.

How often will something like that happen?

What could you do to prevent it?

Scenario #4:

Your large Clan has just entered a large-scale battle with an Enemy Clan.  The numbers of dead are starting to mount up on both sides as the battle wages.  During the battle you notice several groups of players roving the battle-field cleaning out the bodies of the dead.

Do you ignore the scavengers and concentrate your forces on defeating your designated Enemy?

Will you commit a decent-sized group of your Clan to kill the scavenger groups and recover the items of your slain members?

Would you still commit a force to kill the scavengers even if it meant possibly loosing the battle with your Enemy Clan?

Just something different to think about for a change. 

Edit:

Decided to change the title to the thread, as I was going to originally ask about some Ninja-looting type scenarios... but then went down a related, but different path.

Edit #2:  Added a poll for those that didn't want to have to type in any kind of an answer. 

I wonder if there will be any combat resurrection regarding the last two scenarios.  Can you wake up half looted!?  That would be interesting if you still had all of yoru armor but no sword >_<, on the other hand you could make do with the weapon on a nearby corpse (this is alls assuming there is resurrection).  If you can keep the forces coming out while the battle is going on, a victor woudl probably be the one to actually force a retreat (a tactic that hasn't been seen in other MMOs because death is of little penalty).  My guess is that a force of any significance would not be able to be  summoned fast enough for scenario 4, but that most looting will wait until the battle is over.  Better yet, a clan might have designated "looters," and actually have builds devoted to quickly piling up as much loot as possible and then getting away with it.  Maybe wie will have carts and wagons to haul them off in :p.  I've seen ground vehicles in the video, hopefully there is some storage in them, a realistic solution to the weight constraints of actually walking away with all of somones loot.  Very thoughtful thread though.

Originally posted by Xiliaro

I wonder if there will be any combat resurrection regarding the last two scenarios.  Can you wake up half looted!?  That would be interesting if you still had all of yoru armor but no sword >_<, on the other hand you could make do with the weapon on a nearby corpse (this is alls assuming there is resurrection).  If you can keep the forces coming out while the battle is going on, a victor woudl probably be the one to actually force a retreat (a tactic that hasn't been seen in other MMOs because death is of little penalty).  My guess is that a force of any significance would not be able to be  summoned fast enough for scenario 4, but that most looting will wait until the battle is over.  Better yet, a clan might have designated "looters," and actually have builds devoted to quickly piling up as much loot as possible and then getting away with it.  Maybe wie will have carts and wagons to haul them off in :p.  I've seen ground vehicles in the video, hopefully there is some storage in them, a realistic solution to the weight constraints of actually walking away with all of somones loot.  Very thoughtful thread though.

Thanks. 

Thought perhaps some were getting tired of the same ol'  threads we've had for awhile... heh.

You raise some very good points in your post.

Being rez'ed half-looted would be very interesting indeed! 

I think you hit upon what organized Clans will do with large-scale warfare.  Pretty much the same solution that armies of the Middle Ages resorted to.  The "spoils" of war were too valuable to just leave to scavengers. 

Some armies even hired local towns-people or mercenaries to loot the bodies for them.  Unfortunately there are accounts of wounded soldiers of both sides being killed by the hired looters!   

How's that for luck?  Survive the battle, only to be killed by Bob the local Armor Smith trying to pry off your Plate Armor. 

Who knows. If you are worried about losing your shine items don't play this game lol. The experaince and challege drive me and not my shiney thingies

We will all be Monk type toons with very little armor...Imagine "bum fights"

If you are worried about being ganked or ganged up on maybe this probably most likely won't be the game for you. Its got pvp in it. This game is probably not going to be good for carebears with weak stomachs.

The bank scenario would rarely happen. For a group to attack you in the bank would open them up for attack. If they slipped over the line they'd be swamped by guards.

The rest of the scenario's you have to guard against, so I'd say that they'll happen as often as you let them happen. There's no invis so nobody is hanging around that you can't see.

The battlefield scenario with scavengers is pretty cool. I imagine that people will kill scavengers and it'd make for easier looting because he'll have gathered up good stuff from more than one player.

It's definitely not a game about stuff.

If sieging requires sign ups (would make sense), has in battle easy resing, and/or is timed then I don't think people should be lootable until after the siege is over.

yes it can happen..

yes it will suck..

yes it will be great doing to others :p

just imagine scenario #2 from the other side.. you spend way too long in lfg.. finally get to the dungeon.. then you see enemy grp leaving.. then you just kill them and go home with the loot.. i would be laughing for days.. :)

cmon its a full PvP game! dont complain about it, play something else if you dont like it :p

plus RL battlefields has scavengers.. i dont see why a game like this shouldnt..

Originally posted by KidCracken

yes it can happen..

yes it will suck..

yes it will be great doing to others :p

 

just imagine scenario #2 from the other side.. you spend way too long in lfg.. finally get to the dungeon.. then you see enemy grp leaving.. then you just kill them and go home with the loot.. i would be laughing for days.. :)

 

cmon its a full PvP game! dont complain about it, play something else if you dont like it :p

 

plus RL battlefields has scavengers.. i dont see why a game like this shouldnt..

If sieging is a simple push through system with out in battle resing then it makes sense, but if its not and has resing and is basically on a "timer" or has some sort of system in place to determine the winner then in battle looting should happen because it would turn the siege in who got a kill first, although thats not really a bad way to determine a winner either. However, when you have to destory buildings and over take a central point to claim the land or at least take it away from the occupier it unnecceraily complicates things.

Hope that made sense

These are all great scenarios OP :)

Good questions which will be interesting to see how it all works out.

But consider this: All of these scenarios you have presented, they all sound like things that happen in battle (from a medieval perspective..even up to today). Unfortunately, I'm not sure that much of this can be 100% prevented against.

That being said, I'm not sure the 'gankfest 2009' will be nearly as bad as some people think. Will it be the 'wild west' out there? Yes. Will the pk'rs and the gankers run rampant for very long unchecked? No.

Originally posted by ext1

These are all great scenarios OP :)

Good questions which will be interesting to see how it all works out.

But consider this: All of these scenarios you have presented, they all sound like things that happen in battle (from a medieval perspective..even up to today). Unfortunately, I'm not sure that much of this can be 100% prevented against.

That being said, I'm not sure the 'gankfest 2009' will be nearly as bad as some people think. Will it be the 'wild west' out there? Yes. Will the pk'rs and the gankers run rampant for very long unchecked? No.

There will be a ton of gankers at the beginning, a ton of whinners, a ton of just mass chaos.  The good thing about darkfall is consequences.  The community will know who those people are, you dont like how you have been treated.. kill em and strip them of thier items.. Is it "that guild" that is grieifing you... get your clan together with some allies, destroy thier hard worked city, stip it of its goods and ravish thier women (lol).
 

The players make the game, make the economy and make the laws. 

I see all of those happening a lot.

Good stuff

Originally posted by ext1

These are all great scenarios OP :)

Good questions which will be interesting to see how it all works out.

But consider this: All of these scenarios you have presented, they all sound like things that happen in battle (from a medieval perspective..even up to today). Unfortunately, I'm not sure that much of this can be 100% prevented against.

That being said, I'm not sure the 'gankfest 2009' will be nearly as bad as some people think. Will it be the 'wild west' out there? Yes. Will the pk'rs and the gankers run rampant for very long unchecked? No.

Yeah, I was just kinda bored since I had to do some server updates at work today... so was just working the forums while waiting for them to finish. 

I'm not "scared" of any looting, or PvP for that matter... plan to be in Clan Naked. 

Just thought these would be interesting to get people talking about something other than our normal topics on these forums. 

Thanks for the input all... even those calling me a carebear.  

Decided to do a long response to this, I'm bored.  These questions indicate you haven't played this type of game before.  Keep in mind that the measure of success in this type of game isn't your best items, its territory, influence, and the ability to replace what you're wearing.

Scenario #1:

You are at the Bank with a couple of your buddies dropping off some of your recent loot you've acquired. Suddenly, you are ambushed by another group of players. You and one of your buddies is killed, as well as a couple of the attackers. Your last buddy then tries to frantically loot you and your buddies corpses before they are picked clean by the other players that stood by and watched the fight.

How often will something like that happen?

Depends on the bank. We understand from the most recent noob comic preview that the universal bank is part of major cities, some on the outskirts of these cities/starter towns, and clan cities. You'll get scraped by the guards in a major city if you do this, not too sure about outposts, and clan cities depends on the clan. The expectation is the ability to build guard towers and give these guards "rules". Basically, the clan chooses. We won't know this all for sure, but come OB and release you'll know.

What could you do to prevent it?

See above, bank at a safer bank.

Would you try and take vengance on anyone that looted your corpse? (The Devs have said we will be notified somehow when other players loot our corpse).

Maybe.

Scenario #2:

You are with a decent-sized group of your Clan down in a dungeon. After a few hours of working your way down to the Lair at the bottom you finally kill the mob and take your rewards. On the journey back out of the dungeon, you encounter a larger Clan that tells you they own this dungeon and your Clan will need to pay them a "FEE" for entering it. The "FEE" is all the Rewards that you just spent the last few hours trying to aquire. Knowing that your Clan will all die in trying to escape without paying the "FEE"... you reluctantly hand it over.

How often will something like that happen?

Likely to happen. This is how territory works in a PVP game. If you don't like it, do something about it (kill them). On a side note, they'll probably come in the dungeon after you, since the dungeons are not instanced. They may have some sort of portal entrance, but there will be one instance of it so everyone will be in the same one (like Asheron's Call). It would be smarter to clog the exit then let you get into open fields, allowing a higher probability of escape.

What could you do to prevent it?

Take action, in one way or another. The game mechanics are not designed to hold your hand. If its something you really despise, declare war on them with your clan. This is how why PVP MMOs are full of politics and war.  If you play long enough, you'll realize the similarity to medieval Europe if the devs did the job right. 
 

Scenario #3:

Your group has just ambushed a small party of Enemy Faction players as they were leaving a small dungeon. Each of the players you've killed has quite a stash of decent loot on them. You notice a couple members of your group are looting each body in turn as they die rather than wait until everyone is killed. They are taking only the loot that sells for the highest amount as well as any other very nice items. By the time you and the rest of the group finally finish killing the entire party... there isn't much left to loot except for some very heavy items that don't sell for much.

How often will something like that happen?

Could happen if you work with people you don't trust.  Trust is a big issue in PVP MMOs.  You don't just randomly group up with a bunch of schmoes.  Trust must be earned. 

What could you do to prevent it?

Point it out to the other group members and demand  a share and that they don't do it again.  If they refuse, kill them and take it or kick them from the group.
 

Scenario #4:

Your large Clan has just entered a large-scale battle with an Enemy Clan. The numbers of dead are starting to mount up on both sides as the battle wages. During the battle you notice several groups of players roving the battle-field cleaning out the bodies of the dead.

Note:  This WILL happen.  Vultures have always existed in these types of MMOs. 

Do you ignore the scavengers and concentrate your forces on defeating your designated Enemy?

Yes.  Winning is more important than loot.

Will you commit a decent-sized group of your Clan to kill the scavenger groups and recover the items of your slain members?

No.  Any good clan will have large reserves of gear during wartime.

Would you still commit a force to kill the scavengers even if it meant possibly loosing the battle with your Enemy Clan?

Never.  Large scale battles will often be seiges on player cities, which is your most expensive asset. 

That said, after my first long post on these boards, I absolutely despise this posting system in enhanced mode.

thats the whole point of the game anything can and will happen

scenario 2 wont happen because.... *drum roll*  there is no say chat.

Aren't you flagged gray by looting another player's corpse? If so then that should greatly reduce the number of vulture scenarios.

Originally posted by xzyax

Scenario #1:

 

You are at the Bank with a couple of your buddies dropping off some of your recent loot you've acquired.  Suddenly, you are ambushed by another group of players.  You and one of your buddies is killed, as well as a couple of the attackers.  Your last buddy then tries to frantically loot you and your buddies corpses before they are picked clean by the other players that stood by and watched the fight. 

 

How often will something like that happen?     This will happen quite often but if it is anything like UO people who loot "blue" characters will be flagged as a criminal and will be fair game to anyone in the area, now they could easily start to bank as they loot but the fact they'll die and might take a hit to their good/evil standings could prevent this.

What could you do to prevent it?   Try to avoid banks where evil players can get to you at, stay in a city and make sure no one is sneaking up on you if you find a bank out in the open, keep your eyes peeled and make sure to bank your most valuable items first!

Would you try and take vengance on anyone that looted your corpse?  (The Devs have said we will be notified somehow when other players loot our corpse).     I wont have this issue because I'll probably be someone trying to loot your corpse, if it happened to me I'd probably respawn so far away from where I died I'd have no way of recovering my items. I would make a mental note and be sure to PK the guy down the road, and I have a pretty damn good memory.

---

 

Scenario #2:

 

You are with a decent-sized group of your Clan down in a dungeon.  After a few hours of working your way down to the Lair at the bottom you finally kill the mob and take your rewards.  On the journey back out of the dungeon, you encounter a larger Clan that tells you they own this dungeon and your Clan will need to pay them a "FEE" for entering it.  The "FEE" is all the Rewards that you just spent the last few hours trying to aquire.  Knowing that your Clan will all die in trying to escape without paying the "FEE"... you reluctantly hand it over.

 

How often will something like that happen?   It depends on what dungeon, how close it is to a populated area, and what all drops in it. If it's a dungeon full of farmable resources and mobs that are easy to grind on then yeah I can see someone claiming it as their territory and trying this. I honestly can't see it taking 2 hours to clear to a "boss" because Tasos claims there is 'hundreds' of dungeons. They'll probably take like 40 minutes to clear with maybe some epic style dungeons that take longer... what would most likely be controlled by large alliances.  

What could you do to prevent it?   Well the fact they did not straight up PK your group might mean they're afraid of getting a negative rating and being flagged as a murderer. You could attempt to dump all the "awesome" stuff you got onto one or two guys while the rest of you hold them back and he tries to recall to a safe location, the fact yuo can literially block movement would make this a valid tactic. You could attempt to kill them if they start to deliever the first blows, better to go out fighting then on your knees.

---

 

Scenario #3:

 

Your group has just ambushed a small party of Enemy Faction players as they were leaving a small dungeon.  Each of the players you've killed has quite a stash of decent loot on them.  You notice a couple members of your group are looting each body in turn as they die rather than wait until everyone is killed.  They are taking only the loot that sells for the highest amount as well as any other very nice items.  By the time you and the rest of the group finally finish killing the entire party... there isn't much left to loot except for some very heavy items that don't sell for much.

 

How often will something like that happen?   This will probably happen a lot, especially in PK vs anti-PK battles where the blues will most likely suffer no penality for looting you. This is why being an anti-pk sorta sucks, all the town sitters follow behind and take all the good stuff. Mostl ikely these people you just killed will have nothing more then what they needed to engage in a fight or 2 for the fear of losing it. So in the end you probably lost nothing of great value except an extra set of armor and weapons.   

What could you do to prevent it?      If it was someone you saved let him know he's blacklisted. Ask the PKs or other people you killed who looted them, they might tell you just so you can start something with them. Kill the people looting if you can handle a hit and then yo and your buddies go out and hide until your're not gray anymore. Tell your alliance/clan/city about how much of a scumbag he is and see if he can be added to the KOS list for the city's guards and clans.   

---

Scenario #4:

 

Your large Clan has just entered a large-scale battle with an Enemy Clan.  The numbers of dead are starting to mount up on both sides as the battle wages.  During the battle you notice several groups of players roving the battle-field cleaning out the bodies of the dead.

 

Do you ignore the scavengers and concentrate your forces on defeating your designated Enemy?  No, I would have a team of guys looting so they couldn't. 

Will you commit a decent-sized group of your Clan to kill the scavenger groups and recover the items of your slain members?       Best defense versus a scavenger is to kill them and hold them back, they could be buddies of the guys you just killed trying to get their stuff back, or in it for the greed. You're probably best off with having people actually focused on looting enemies until they're full and switch off to prevent them from rearming and flanking you from behind.    

Would you still commit a force to kill the scavengers even if it meant possibly loosing the battle with your Enemy Clan?   No.

---

 

Just something different to think about for a change. 

 

Edit:

Decided to change the title to the thread, as I was going to originally ask about some Ninja-looting type scenarios... but then went down a related, but different path.

 

Edit #2:  Added a poll for those that didn't want to have to type in any kind of an answer. 

There are a lot of holes in what we can, can't, and can get away with as a murderer or a faction enemy. The fact these people will most likely spawn a decent distance away unless you're on the offensive will pretty much mean that after an engagement you'll have downtime. Looting your enemies and keeping your own loot safe is a major thing in Darkfall. You'll want to travel in packs if you're carrying anything of value. You'll want to avoid being caught in dungeons and bullied by others also. Alliances, non-aggressive pacts, making friends will be a huge part of DFO. The harshness of an open PvP world is never ending and people will always find a way to fuck with someone and get their items. You'll lose said items all the time, it's important to understand that whoever just killed you and looted that item can just as easily be killed 5 minutes down the road and looted.

Not getting attached to your items is the best way to avoid getting angry and wanting to quit the game. It will happen, and it will happen a lot. That is part of a FFA world, the great part is you can come right back and do the same later on. Also if you're planning on playing a non-murderer a good clan/alliance located in a good location would be a good thing to think about as you log into the Darkfall world.

I hope this helped a bit.

Originally posted by Consensus

scenario 2 wont happen because.... *drum roll*  there is no say chat.

stfu dude quit spreading lies, there is a chat don't believe this troll.

Originally posted by frosthart

We will all be Monk type toons with very little armor...Imagine "bum fights"

Forget very little armor, just fight naked. It will be like naked bum fights.

Originally posted by Ihmotepp

Originally posted by frosthart

We will all be Monk type toons with very little armor...Imagine "bum fights"

 

Forget very little armor, just fight naked. It will be like naked bum fights.

If you don't have armor on then anyone who gets close to you with a good melee weapon will most likely destroy you.

Originally posted by xzyax

Scenario #1:

 

You are at the Bank with a couple of your buddies dropping off some of your recent loot you've acquired.  Suddenly, you are ambushed by another group of players.  You and one of your buddies is killed, as well as a couple of the attackers.  Your last buddy then tries to frantically loot you and your buddies corpses before they are picked clean by the other players that stood by and watched the fight. 

 

How often will something like that happen?

Probably alot!

What could you do to prevent it?

If there is still going to be player cities then I would hope this would encourage the big clans to make cities and have them well fortified.
 

Would you try and take vengance on anyone that looted your corpse?  (The Devs have said we will be notified somehow when other players loot our corpse).

---

 I will and I think this will also give leave to have huge "Mecernary for hire" clans that will kill other PKers for a set amount of money and get your stuff back!

Scenario #2:

 

You are with a decent-sized group of your Clan down in a dungeon.  After a few hours of working your way down to the Lair at the bottom you finally kill the mob and take your rewards.  On the journey back out of the dungeon, you encounter a larger Clan that tells you they own this dungeon and your Clan will need to pay them a "FEE" for entering it.  The "FEE" is all the Rewards that you just spent the last few hours trying to aquire.  Knowing that your Clan will all die in trying to escape without paying the "FEE"... you reluctantly hand it over.

 

How often will something like that happen?

Hopefully not as often as other may think. If the game has a large enough amount of dungeons then it wont be a big deal. Also you have to think, in this game a small group if well skilled should be able to take out a much larger group.

What could you do to prevent it?

Always group with a good, but also safe amount of people. To me the less attention you bring upon yourself and your clan the better.

---

 

Scenario #3:

 

Your group has just ambushed a small party of Enemy Faction players as they were leaving a small dungeon.  Each of the players you've killed has quite a stash of decent loot on them.  You notice a couple members of your group are looting each body in turn as they die rather than wait until everyone is killed.  They are taking only the loot that sells for the highest amount as well as any other very nice items.  By the time you and the rest of the group finally finish killing the entire party... there isn't much left to loot except for some very heavy items that don't sell for much.

 

How often will something like that happen?

Often but this would in my opinion get you removed from my clan. I think that the strong noble clans with friend in real life will not have to worry about these things. It will encourage better behavior if anything.

What could you do to prevent it?

Boot any clan members that do this sort of unfair act.

---

Scenario #4:

 

Your large Clan has just entered a large-scale battle with an Enemy Clan.  The numbers of dead are starting to mount up on both sides as the battle wages.  During the battle you notice several groups of players roving the battle-field cleaning out the bodies of the dead.

 

Do you ignore the scavengers and concentrate your forces on defeating your designated Enemy?

I would take out the enemy first but send someone to gather than names of everyone that stole. As soon as possible I would put them on a Clan "Hit List" and have them taken out on sight.

Will you commit a decent-sized group of your Clan to kill the scavenger groups and recover the items of your slain members?

IT would be top priority once the original battle is finished.

Would you still commit a force to kill the scavengers even if it meant possibly loosing the battle with your Enemy Clan?

---

 No I would only deal with them after the fact, simply because it would cause too much clan confusion to take on two different groups at the same time.

Just something different to think about for a change. 

 

Edit:

Decided to change the title to the thread, as I was going to originally ask about some Ninja-looting type scenarios... but then went down a related, but different path.

 

Edit #2:  Added a poll for those that didn't want to have to type in any kind of an answer. 

With the exception of scenario 1, I think thats the stuff that makes the atmosphere have a dangerous feel to it. It makes people think twice about fighting/ganking, It makes clan wars actually have risk to them, Something worth fighting for. It makes people think twice before declaring them aswell. It makes victory that much sweeter.

Kinda off topic here, but thats what I liked about UO. Was the whole "danger" thing. An example of the opposite i'll give is Warhammer. Although I like WAR, I don't like this. People will go running into enemy territory and attack keeps with out thinking twice. I've been in keep raids where i'll die 10+ times and not really care. Sometimes I wont even defend our keep because I know I wont lose anything even if the keep is lost. That sort of takes all the excitement out of it for me. With all the full looting/Clan cities and such going on, it will hopefully force comradery between people. Having them band together to face certain situations, creating a gaming experience. Its those little experiences created by players that make a mmorpg fun to me.

I've been reading up on Darkfall for the past few days, I've read most of the dev stuff and such. The only redflag i'm seeing so far, is that it just seems to good to be true.( if it seems to good to be true it probably is? ) How can a small company produce a game with that many features? It totally sounds like "The Holy Grail" of mmorpgs. Truly sounds next-gen. But my head tells me its not possible, I want to, and will continue to hope DF is that game because this genre is so lacking as of late.

Even if Darkfall does not turn out to be what its hyped up to be. I respect what their trying to do.

This post reminds me of exactly the reason why I love the idea of Darkfall. It lets you have an imagination and gives you hope of a game thats actually a living breathing world. Full of Danger around every corner. Please everyone do not let this thread die so quickly, it has so much to offer. Huge appreciation for the OP.