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12/22/08 7:57:15 PM#226
Originally posted by Guillermo197
If you lie with dogs expect to get fleas. |
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12/22/08 8:02:02 PM#227
Originally posted by Smilex0311
a new low? I can see where those bothered are coming from but not sure htis is worse than wht they've done in the past |
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12/22/08 8:31:42 PM#228
Originally posted by ursin
I need to know... what kind of warning would be acceptable to you? A month's notice? A week? What would have been an acceptable amount of time for SOE to announce this to you? Then, what would you have done if you had your ideal amount of 'warning'? Would you have canceled your account? Have you canceled it since? Regarding the Smedley lies... the only reason his lies are so hotly debated is because they are public knowledge. Do you honestly think someone like Smedley has told a more heinous lie than a person like Donald Trump would have told in order to buy a nice office tower? Do you think Bush's lies are less damaging than those told by Smedley? Grow up people (not you in particular, Ursin but everyone complaining about the lies). Lies are told daily by far more important people than Smed that affect people in a far greater way than his actions towards changing your games... Spend all this negative energy writing congress or complaining about your politicians and see your bitching lead to real reform.
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12/22/08 11:01:09 PM#229
Originally posted by Bronks
I need to know... what kind of warning would be acceptable to you? A month's notice? A week? What would have been an acceptable amount of time for SOE to announce this to you? Then, what would you have done if you had your ideal amount of 'warning'? Would you have canceled your account? Have you canceled it since? Regarding the Smedley lies... the only reason his lies are so hotly debated is because they are public knowledge. Do you honestly think someone like Smedley has told a more heinous lie than a person like Donald Trump would have told in order to buy a nice office tower? Do you think Bush's lies are less damaging than those told by Smedley? Grow up people (not you in particular, Ursin but everyone complaining about the lies). Lies are told daily by far more important people than Smed that affect people in a far greater way than his actions towards changing your games... Spend all this negative energy writing congress or complaining about your politicians and see your bitching lead to real reform.
You know, i've been thinking about what you've said here, and i'll try to answer as best i can..... I need to know... what kind of warning would be acceptable to you? A month's notice? A week? What would have been an acceptable amount of time for SOE to announce this to you?
pretty much .... any.... any warning, rather than none would have been enough for me.....
Then, what would you have done if you had your ideal amount of 'warning'? Would you have canceled your account? Have you canceled it since?
This is a sticky area for me..... I play EQII with my wife, we are both active players, and it's a game she likes. she also feels that MicroTransactions are 'nickle and diming' for content that you shouldn't necessarily be 'nickle and dimed' for, but this is her favorite game of those we've played. with the exception of Vanguard which she feels hasn't had enough time to develop from the bug riddled entity it was at launch, so we continue with EQII, since this announcement has happened I have been actively trying to get her to look at other games so we can make a move, and nothing interests her, so EQII i'm staying with, in spite of not liking this specific topic we're dealing with.
Regarding the Smedley lies... the only reason his lies are so hotly debated is because they are public knowledge. Do you honestly think someone like Smedley has told a more heinous lie than a person like Donald Trump would have told in order to buy a nice office tower? Do you think Bush's lies are less damaging than those told by Smedley?
I suppose this is the one...... my main problem boils down to, if he/they can so blatantly lie about this one thing, what are the other things they are lying about not so publicly. When are they going to do REALLY STUPID things because they think they can.
and you hit a nail on the head here.... his lies are changing my game. my primary source of leisure.... and this is THE reason I don't want RMT in my games which is why i am so adamant about my opposition of it when it's not what i signed up for... on a daily basis i face how what i make / what i do in the real world isn't always enough..... because of what i do / what i make. i don't want to have to face that in my escapist recreation too......
as i've said a few times. i realize RMT and MT are the way of the future, when the future comes i'll find a game i like that has it and swallow the pill because i want to play the game regardless ......
but you are right, there are more important things to be 'outspoken about' i'll try to focus on some of them for a while -grin- "We aren't going to ... Period. End of statement." ya. ok. whatever. but what do i know, i'm only a vanbois i'm told. |
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12/25/08 4:00:06 AM#230
Originally posted by Bronks
I need to know... what kind of warning would be acceptable to you? A month's notice? A week? What would have been an acceptable amount of time for SOE to announce this to you? Then, what would you have done if you had your ideal amount of 'warning'? Would you have canceled your account? Have you canceled it since? Regarding the Smedley lies... the only reason his lies are so hotly debated is because they are public knowledge. Do you honestly think someone like Smedley has told a more heinous lie than a person like Donald Trump would have told in order to buy a nice office tower? Do you think Bush's lies are less damaging than those told by Smedley? Grow up people (not you in particular, Ursin but everyone complaining about the lies). Lies are told daily by far more important people than Smed that affect people in a far greater way than his actions towards changing your games... Spend all this negative energy writing congress or complaining about your politicians and see your bitching lead to real reform.
Because other people lie, you should ignore the fact that the people you do business with are outright lying to you? Not continuing to do business with a company that lies to you concerning an optional entertainment product would seem to be a much easier than attempting to correct politicians from lying to us. Sure, politicians lying have much larger ramifications, but you aren't going to go to jail if you cancel your EQ2 subscription. Stop paying your taxes and you will. Honestly, any lie that Donald Trump has told has has less impact on most MMO players than the lies that John Smedley has told. Donald Trum has less to do with MMOs than the government, and the government will most likely have a significantly larger role in MMOs as more companies decide to go the RMT route. Congress has been loking for an excuse to tax virtual assets, and giving those assets a real dollar value will make it much easier for them to do that. There has already been at least two seperate bills put forth by Senators and Representatives. Your entire defense of the Station Cash system is to deflect to other, unrelated things. What SOE does should have a significant impact on the decision of SOE's customers to continue to subscribe to their products or not. What the government, or Donald Trump, do should not be a major factor, as long as the government is not directly affecting the MMO. In this case, neither Donald Trum, or George Bush have forced SOE to implement thier RMT system, so they are complately seperate from the discussion. If you can prodcuse any evidence that either Donald Trump or George Bush has forced SOE to implement the Station Cash service, against their wishes and in direct conflict with John Smedley stating that RMT will never be implemented in EQ or EQ2, then you should present that evidence, because it would be relevant to the discussion of the Station Cash system and its implementation. As things stand, Don and George are irrelevant strawmen. The facts are, SOE promised not to implement RMT to the non-Station Exchange servers, and then implemented RMT on the non-Station Exchange servers. They did so without even mentioning that their RMT system was coming. It was implemented without warning, and has been acknowledged as likley to upset a large number of SOE's existing customers. It has also been acknowledged that the Station Cash system is being deployed now to work out the kinks for The Agency and Free Realms, which means SOE has implemented something that they know many of their current customers will be upset by, for customers who may or may not exist in the future. The EQ and EQ2 customers are guinea pigs for the Agency and Free Realms.
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12/25/08 11:31:49 PM#231
Originally posted by Obee
Because other people lie, you should ignore the fact that the people you do business with are outright lying to you? Not continuing to do business with a company that lies to you concerning an optional entertainment product would seem to be a much easier than attempting to correct politicians from lying to us. Sure, politicians lying have much larger ramifications, but you aren't going to go to jail if you cancel your EQ2 subscription. Stop paying your taxes and you will. Honestly, any lie that Donald Trump has told has has less impact on most MMO players than the lies that John Smedley has told. Donald Trum has less to do with MMOs than the government, and the government will most likely have a significantly larger role in MMOs as more companies decide to go the RMT route. Congress has been loking for an excuse to tax virtual assets, and giving those assets a real dollar value will make it much easier for them to do that. There has already been at least two seperate bills put forth by Senators and Representatives. Sure, but the Donald's lies affect more people on the whole than the average MMO. Wait until Donald starts hearing about this WOW 'thing' and you'll see how fast he can move on the MMO industry. The only reason he hasn't is because he's currently frying other fish.
Your entire defense of the Station Cash system is to deflect to other, unrelated things. What SOE does should have a significant impact on the decision of SOE's customers to continue to subscribe to their products or not. What the government, or Donald Trump, do should not be a major factor, as long as the government is not directly affecting the MMO. In this case, neither Donald Trum, or George Bush have forced SOE to implement thier RMT system, so they are complately seperate from the discussion. If you can prodcuse any evidence that either Donald Trump or George Bush has forced SOE to implement the Station Cash service, against their wishes and in direct conflict with John Smedley stating that RMT will never be implemented in EQ or EQ2, then you should present that evidence, because it would be relevant to the discussion of the Station Cash system and its implementation. As things stand, Don and George are irrelevant strawmen. It's not defense... it's indifference. I could care less about the cash shop and will not let it affect my decision either way. If i miss my in-game friends/guild I will resub for a couple months. The cash shop will never affect that decision for me. I deflect to nothing... I only state that which people don't seem to understand. I want people to understand that the energy dumped into hating SOE and their shady doings could definately be better spent fvolunteering or something... hell buy a heavy bag and punch the crap out of it at night so that when you turn on a 'puter you don't have to waste energy. My time is too valuable to spend night after night arguing something online.
The facts are, SOE promised not to implement RMT to the non-Station Exchange servers, and then implemented RMT on the non-Station Exchange servers. They did so without even mentioning that their RMT system was coming. It was implemented without warning, and has been acknowledged as likley to upset a large number of SOE's existing customers. It has also been acknowledged that the Station Cash system is being deployed now to work out the kinks for The Agency and Free Realms, which means SOE has implemented something that they know many of their current customers will be upset by, for customers who may or may not exist in the future. The EQ and EQ2 customers are guinea pigs for the Agency and Free Realms.
Obee, you get really long winded when you want to debate something. No one forces anyone to be a guinea pig. All I have to say regarding RMT is no one is forcing anyone to do anything. As an end-user, customers hold all the power. it's pretty easy to cancel a SOE account (I do it at least twice a year).
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12/26/08 2:43:39 PM#232
No Bronks here are the facts. The fact is you refuse to find a new crusade and stop the whining, the fact is, everyone who is so upset that they are going to terminate their subscription has most likely already done so, the fact is you need to get a life or at least a game to play so you do not feel the need to hang out and bitch about something that doesnt effect you, unless you still play EQ2 which i doubt you ever did and if you do then terminate you subscription and quit whipping the dead horse. You are pathetic. |
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12/26/08 2:47:02 PM#233
Sorry Bronks my outrage was meant for Obee not you, misread. |
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12/26/08 9:45:44 PM#234
Wah. "There goes the neighhboorhood! Hey! All you darn kids! Go on! Get offa my game! |
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12/26/08 11:13:13 PM#235
Yes Jeff44 ive seen your comments about the evil sony empire as well. Your insight is something to behold. What would become of the sheep if not for your wisdom to guide everyone through the attack on the gaming community? Im going to quit gaming now, as you have pointed out that big companies are only any it for the money, while this little lamb thought it was because they were kind gentle souls with no thought of themselves and only your approval to condider. Thank you for keeping us safe. |
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Gravarg
 Hard Core Member
Joined: 8/24/06
“Ours is a bond forged of spirit and sinew. It will not break, but you might.” |
12/27/08 6:11:05 AM#236
It's SOE, they'll do anything for a penny now, instead of a game that will last and make millions later. I played EQ for awhile until I started to get the feeling that SOE was just robbing me with all their expansions. It wasn't until WoW came out that I asked myself, "Why the heck am I paying for an expansion every 6 months, when in other games you get the exact same thing for free?" After I tought about this question, I haven't touched anything SOE has even come close to since. I will NEVER forgive SOE for what they did to EQ, I will NEVER play another SOE game EVER.
I'm suprised they're not offering to powerlevel you for cash...SOE sucks!
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12/27/08 11:06:19 AM#237
Originally posted by Gravarg
Just. Wait. For. It. ^_^ Honestly though, I have nothing against 90% of the devs at SOE, most of them are grade A people and it kills me that I and many others won't be supporting them again, here is a prime example of a few bad decisions from greedy individuals that ruin a good thing for many. If there was ever a restructuring of SOE I'd play again, not EQ2 but another of their games. As it is I can't in good conscience. (,,,)=^__^=(,,,)Game Latte Vidcast |
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12/27/08 11:44:26 AM#238
Originally posted by Cynthe
Just. Wait. For. It. ^_^ Honestly though, I have nothing against 90% of the devs at SOE, most of them are grade A people and it kills me that I and many others won't be supporting them again, here is a prime example of a few bad decisions from greedy individuals that ruin a good thing for many. If there was ever a restructuring of SOE I'd play again, not EQ2 but another of their games. As it is I can't in good conscience.
I think a lot of people are in the same situation. There needs to be something done at SOE to regain the trust of consumers. As things stand right now there is no valid reason to believe this company will not do anything they want to make a buck regardless of how their customers feel. Why invest playtime in a game when the odds are really good that the company running the game will pull the rug out from underneath your feet and make drastic changes you oppose. It is a shame really, because the talent at SOE has always seemed to be held hostage by these choices and the customers are treated with no respect at all. |
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12/27/08 12:10:45 PM#239
Originally posted by Daffid011
I think a lot of people are in the same situation. There needs to be something done at SOE to regain the trust of consumers. As things stand right now there is no valid reason to believe this company will not do anything they want to make a buck regardless of how their customers feel. Why invest playtime in a game when the odds are really good that the company running the game will pull the rug out from underneath your feet and make drastic changes you oppose. It is a shame really, because the talent at SOE has always seemed to be held hostage by these choices and the customers are treated with no respect at all.
Well I'm not sure if I am in that situation. Right now the only reason I am not playing EQ2 is boredom. Yet at the same time nothing "new" is really coming and I don't like any of the MMO's that came out recently enough to pay for them. However, what I would say is that SOE is just the most visual company in this situation. They started down a certain road (before the TCG) and have kept going down that road in some form or another. Oddly they keep getting the same result (less subscribers) and the solution is to just keep going. EA has had RMT services in Ultima Online for years. This is nothing new.. it is new for SOE but not to the market. In UO you CAN buy "advanced characters". While they are not max'd out skill wise it is still offering a services for real money that gives you a head start. I don't think EA asked for player opinions on these things anymore than SOE did. However, at the time EA did these things SOE was the big dog in the US at least. My problem with SOE is after the NGE.. "we need to work on our communication." So maybe the Station Cash wouldn't be a big deal. Yet why didn't they even have a discussion with the players? The people who pay their salaries. That's the deal to me.. its not about "omg station cash ruined the game .. RMT omg the sky is falling." Its this is the company that said they were going to communicate with us... the players. Yet they didn't even tell us this was going into the game until it was there... That's my personal issue.
Oh and to one thing specific: "Why invest playtime in a game when the odds are really good that the company running the game will pull the rug out from underneath your feet and make drastic changes you oppose." Every MMO I have ever played regardless of company has done this from my point of view. Which in general is when I stop playing. That isn't an SOE exclusive.. and if it made me feel that way.. I would never buy an MMO again. I have an entire shelf of games I stopped playing due to stupid changes from people that should have never been in game design (my opinion). Typical thread: Blocked, blocked, blocked, intellegent post I may not agree with, blocked, blocked, blocked, intellegent post I may agree with, blocked, blocked... |
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12/27/08 11:10:41 PM#240
The problem with SOE has always been their attitude towards the players......You always feel like "if they can squeeze another dime out of me they will".......RMT in both EQ1 and EQ2 shocks no one.....They are playing with fire......Smedley has always thought his games were so much better than anything else out there but that changed years ago....he's lucky to have the customers he has left...... RMT is a big time gamble by SOE but they always bet that their customers wont leave them.......Like anything else it falls on the players to do something...... |
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12/28/08 12:20:36 AM#241
Originally posted by grandpagamer
"There goes the neighhboorhood! Hey! All you darn kids! Go on! Get offa my game! |
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12/28/08 12:35:39 AM#242
Originally posted by Antarious
SOE has been beating the "we need to communicate and listen to the players" drum for years now. Almost 2 years before the NGE, they held the Guild Summit to stave off a player run boycott of their expansions. It seems almost every year Smed promises to change their ways.
My point wasn't about MMOs changing. All MMOs change, but no one has a real history of blockbusters that have such an effect on players as SOE does. For all their talk about listening to the players, their actions speak totally against that. It has all been nothing more than lipservice. Just like you pointed out, no player communication about station cash, just like the NGE, just like station exchange and so on. What makes it worse is that players spoke out against station exchange when they tried to force exchange servers status on all the EQ2 servers. Players said they didn't want it and the CEO promised they wouldn't do it. It is one thing for a company to make mistakes with game changes, but what SOE does is intentional. There is no rational reason to trust anything they promise. There is no reason to believe they won't make any changes, no matter how severe and no matter what the consequences are to the player base. I can't think of one other MMO that makes changes that factor in "how many people will leave".
That is why I just don't think it is worth time investing in their games right now. There is no reason to believe anything. |
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12/28/08 8:03:06 AM#243
Originally posted by Cynthe
Just. Wait. For. It. No need to wait. Those xp potions can be seen as some form of powerleveling. |
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12/29/08 8:24:58 AM#244
We've learned a thing or two with our experiences with the NGE and don't plan on repeating mistakes from the past and not listening to the players. lol We're all Geniuses. Most of us just don't know it.
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12/29/08 8:28:46 AM#245
Originally posted by Teiraa No need to wait. Those xp potions can be seen as some form of powerleveling. roflmao... really... so every single person that joins the game must take part in power levelling. See, when I create a new character, every single one of my characters gets multiple potions for combat and for crafting. Its something called "gifts". The longer you play, you receive presents from SOE for playing that length of time. At the moment I have at least... 9 potions available to every single character I make FOR FREE.
So don't go play that stupid card. Every single person gets that. Its just that some of them may now be able to add more from station cash. Frankly, they don't make that much difference in how you level. In Silentio Noctis - A place for direct and honest discussion about modern gaming |
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12/29/08 8:32:18 AM#246
Dead horse ---> Beat it... |
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12/29/08 11:54:00 AM#247
The topic that would never die... Anyway, the previous criticism is perfectly valid: A user may now buy (with real dollars) a mechanic in the game that enables them to advance more quickly than someone who does not. That, of course, is the very definition of what seems to upset people about the Station Cash. To claim that the issue is invalid because everyone gets three of these kinds of potions with each new character ignores the actual point of contention: by using real money, one user is able to advance in his game-play in a faster manner than another. To claim that no one should complain, or that people should stop complaining because someone else feels that their gameplay is unaffected strikes me as a bit self-centered and insecure. To be clear: I don't find that these recent changes have devalued my enjoyment of EQ2 to the point where I need to stop playing, but I understand and respect the decision of the people who have reached that point. Their leaving the game and/or their criticism of SOE does not affect me personally, it does not make me enjoy EQ2 or MMORPG.com any less and I do not take their actions as a personal attack which must be met with derision and scorn on these boards. I hope that they find a game where they can get the enjoyment that EQ2 once provided for them. The rest is just noise. "There goes the neighhboorhood! Hey! All you darn kids! Go on! Get offa my game! |
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12/30/08 9:36:22 AM#248
given its so easy to level nowadays you'd have to wonder at the people who would buy the xp pots
I wouldnt want them driving me anywhere thats for sure. |
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12/31/08 6:40:02 AM#249
Don't play this game, but It's pretty sad to see. It's no less than a scam and it's a pity this company got away with it. Unfortunately this company has a reputation a lot of you should have been paying attention to. Microtransactions effect the entire game whether you choose to use them or not. They make it "he who spends the most come out on top" in a P2P that's a no no and should be an instant cancelation if you're the type that likes to feel accomplished in games like this. WoW fanboi: "lolz 11.5 million customers, itz obviously da best" McDonald's: over 1 billion burgers served |
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1/01/09 1:51:56 PM#250
If this Station Cash thing is a game canceler for you....whao!! The only items you can "buy" with station cash are items the increase exp gain. Who cares!!! Nothing you can buy gives you any type of edge. And...well...I bet your also the type that just can't stand people who order a #1 at McDonalds...and then...OMG...order a shake or apple pie. Fuck those people...that shit doen't come wiht a #1...and why the fuck do they have more money to spend on stuff they want than I do. Fuck McDonands, Rich people who can spend they money on whatever they want, and SoE for allowing them to spend their money. |
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