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12/31/08 2:05:30 PM#41
Originally posted by Booksy
PVP needs to be equal or only a few will keep killing everyone else. Why would I play a game where I ONLY get killed by players with more time on their hands than me. ALL PLAYERS should have a chance to have fun in PVP..............REPEAT............ALL PLAYERS....not only grind 24/7 NO LIFERS ok. WE all pay the same amount for the game not? Why would the players stay with Aion when a few no life get so much power when other games let them have fun too. This is grinder or get killed after level 40. You can't battle in Abyss if you're not part of the high end guilds because you just get melee killed or AE destroyed by Heroes. If you have no life, GRATS, you can play too and be special too. Sucks for everyone else.
This game isn't about 1v1, it never was, dunno why people are surprised now, read the posts I wrote months ago and you would notice the PvP I explained was what we are seeing today. The balance is measured in mass vs mass, as long as there are nolifers in both sides, the balance will be perfect in the battles that matter. We all claim for change, evolution, but as soon as devs get out of the WoW box, we get lost. |
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Originally posted by Ephimero
This game isn't about 1v1. The balance is measured in mass vs mass, as long as there are nolifers in both sides, the balance will be perfect in the battles that matter.
It's not mass PVP. Hero can kill non hero in under 2 seconds time. If a Hero enters abyss you fight him or you die, if you don't grind for hours you're low rank and you die. |
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12/31/08 2:09:57 PM#43
Fix the HEART of any good MMO (PvE) and the rest you can live with. I think we've had enough of these "pvp centric" games this year. I for one hope Aion goes back to the basics of MMO making... PvE storylines and gameplay and work on the PvP in their spare time as a add-on. There are enough PvP failures and limping experiments out now that should satisfy anyone for a lifetime. |
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12/31/08 2:11:22 PM#44
Originally posted by ProfRed
I know me too. Like some guy said these players become something of a intelligent raid boss. Thats awesome. No more scripted stuff. Your fighting him and his clan and that could lead to some epic battles. Hold on Snow Leopard, imma let you finish, but Windows had one of the best operating systems of all time. If the Powerball lottery was like Lotro, nobody would win for 2 years, and then everyone in Nebraska would win on the same day. AMD 4800 2.4ghz-3GB RAM 533mhz-EVGA 9500GT 512mb-320gb HD |
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12/31/08 2:12:50 PM#45
Originally posted by Booksy
This game isn't about 1v1. The balance is measured in mass vs mass, as long as there are nolifers in both sides, the balance will be perfect in the battles that matter.
It's not mass PVP. Hero can kill non hero in under 2 seconds time. If a Hero enters abyss you fight him or you die, if you don't grind for hours you're low rank and you die.
Then don't go alone to the abyss, it's not meant to be a solo area. Or stay away from the abyss and get your PvP fix with rifts, no guardians or abyss skills there. You can get good equipment without stepping into the abyss, the Crafter Maestro can craft pretty good stuff, and the instances drop competitive shit also, but if you want the best of the best, you'll have to fight, start looking for guild (pro tip :p). |
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12/31/08 2:14:28 PM#46
You also realize that if a hero dies he loses a massive amount of abyss points. Everyone loses abyss points when they die and those points go to the killer. The real question is how many of the top ranks, short of hero were present from the other side. Not to mention that with a hero on your side as long as you are there and part of that effort you gain from the defeat of the hero. |
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12/31/08 2:28:39 PM#47
Archlord has something similar, but as far as I know it's 1 per server. |
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12/31/08 2:31:43 PM#48
Originally posted by Writh
Indeed. I highly doubt that one person can constantly maintain hero status forever. Hell, when you enter the abyss, it notifies everyone that's in there of your presence. You might be able to take a whole party down by yourself, but if you get swamped by a couple of legions, I doubt you'll live through it. Not to mention that EACH SIDE has a hero, so it's not imbalanced. Sure, if you spend a lot of time pvping in the abyss, you might benefit more than someone who doesn't play as much. But if you spend a lot of time in there, you have an equal chance of racking up a lot of deaths as you do kills. If someone manages to spend a lot of time in the abyss and come off with huge kill amounts and maintain little deaths in doing so, then I think that person deserves hero status. |
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12/31/08 2:48:07 PM#49
100 people is way too many, it should only be 16 people per server who get guardian (1 per class per race) |
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12/31/08 2:53:30 PM#50
I'm not to thrilled about this system but I don't consider it game breaking in any way. imo, anybody should be able to enjoy PVP, including people who aren't very good at it. Thing is, getting killed over and over again isn't fun, and a system like this only increases the gap between expert and "noob". I find it to be a very unnecessary system. |
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12/31/08 3:00:14 PM#51
Expert and noob should be completely separate in PvP, but that does't mean separated by gear or level, it should be skill. |
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12/31/08 3:05:34 PM#52
Originally posted by Sovrath Except let's hope it's implemented in Aion in such a way that it can't be exploited as it is in L2. Getting Hero in L2 isn't "won" (with very few exceptions). It's arranged, and controlled, by only the most powerful clans/allies on the server. It's decided who is going to be the Hero for a given class, then that player is "fed" points by clan/ally mates and/or others, to make sure they have enough to win it. If you're a "nobody", and you try for Hero when it was "someone else's turn", don't be surprised when their clan, ally and/or their friends declare war and gank you and your clan-mates... as punishment, for trying to "take it without their permission". This has happened many times before. I don't even consider anyone who Hero to be anything special. It was "their turn", nothing more. It's not "may the best fighter win". It's "may the next person in line please step forward". I've seen people openly laughed at when they got Hero, because it's well known that they're one of the worst of their class on the server. They couldn't PvP their way out of a wet paper bag with instructions and a starter hole when faced with even a decent match. Yet, they're awarded a status intended to be held by the best of their class. A friend of mine wants Hero, not because he thinks it's something special. He knows it's a joke. He just wants to be able to talk in Hero chat. In concept, the Hero system is great. If it's handled differently in Aion, it'll be fine. If it's broken as badly as it is in L2.. it'll be a joke all over again. And I don't say that out of bitterness or jealousy. I've had no delusions of ever getting Hero. I just don't play at that level. But I do hate when a game system is so horribly exploited and abused, that it's basically pointless.
I could agree with that. My thought of the L2 hero is similar to yours but there is a caveat. One that I'm not thrilled about but I can see the logic in it. L2 has always been about clan and alliances. The game is set up this way. Many people have trouble with the game because they don't quite understand this. So "yes" it's tough to get good equipment or greater rewards if one thinks of themselves. But get a whole clan out there working toward getting mats and leveling their crafters/scavengers and it becomes a lot easier. Now, bring this to the whole hero system and it becomes more of a lesson in one clan or alliance creating their hero. Sure, it is a bit less about personal ability but it is more about the group picking their champion/hero. Western players seem to have a problem with this because we are a bit more oriented to the individual and what the individual can accomplish. change the paradigm and it is about what the clan/alliance can accomplish. this is why feeding points makes sense.
See.. I can see the "clan/ally" effort in other aspects of the game... allies showing up to help defend a castle, etc. However, the Olympiad, as it's explained, is supposed to be a direct competition between players... Me Vs. You and may the best combatant win. The status of Hero is the reward for defeating all challengers. However, what the allies are doing is undermining that system by deliberately giving up points to declare someone the Hero. The points aren't being "won". They're willingly handed over. And I seriously don't think that's the way NC intended it to be used. They're not playing it as intended, they're exploiting a flaw in the design. So, I would agree with you on the clan/ally effort thing in other aspects of the game... because those are all things that are wide-open and group on group... fighting for raid bosses, castle sieges, fort sieges, etc. But.. Olympiad is very deliberately set up as a series of one-on-one competitions, not a "group effort". By feeding points, they are circumventing and undermining the system... not following it. |
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12/31/08 3:08:33 PM#53
Originally posted by Booksy
PVP needs to be equal or only a few will keep killing everyone else. Why would I play a game where I ONLY get killed by players with more time on their hands than me. ALL PLAYERS should have a chance to have fun in PVP..............REPEAT............ALL PLAYERS....not only grind 24/7 NO LIFERS ok. WE all pay the same amount for the game not? Why would the players stay with Aion when a few no life get so much power when other games let them have fun too. This is grinder or get killed after level 40. You can't battle in Abyss if you're not part of the high end guilds because you just get melee killed or AE destroyed by Heroes. If you have no life, GRATS, you can play too and be special too. Sucks for everyone else.
Or you can get together with your guild, make a plan and take down the heroes. In Lineage 2 they were not invulnerable. Groups that worked together were able to take down heroes. there were difficulties but I've seen it done often enough. My thought is that people can either complain about it or come up with a way to deal with it. And again, this is a korean game. Seems to me that they have different ideas as to how gameplay should be. Heroes in L2, These heroes in Aion. Seems to me that it's a theme that some of the developers are interested in exploring. Everyone can take part in pvp, your role might be different than others. And as I and many have said, this is not a 1 vs 1 game. Just like L2 it is a group game. |
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12/31/08 3:11:02 PM#54
Originally posted by WSIMike Except let's hope it's implemented in Aion in such a way that it can't be exploited as it is in L2. Getting Hero in L2 isn't "won" (with very few exceptions). It's arranged, and controlled, by only the most powerful clans/allies on the server. It's decided who is going to be the Hero for a given class, then that player is "fed" points by clan/ally mates and/or others, to make sure they have enough to win it. If you're a "nobody", and you try for Hero when it was "someone else's turn", don't be surprised when their clan, ally and/or their friends declare war and gank you and your clan-mates... as punishment, for trying to "take it without their permission". This has happened many times before. I don't even consider anyone who Hero to be anything special. It was "their turn", nothing more. It's not "may the best fighter win". It's "may the next person in line please step forward". I've seen people openly laughed at when they got Hero, because it's well known that they're one of the worst of their class on the server. They couldn't PvP their way out of a wet paper bag with instructions and a starter hole when faced with even a decent match. Yet, they're awarded a status intended to be held by the best of their class. A friend of mine wants Hero, not because he thinks it's something special. He knows it's a joke. He just wants to be able to talk in Hero chat. In concept, the Hero system is great. If it's handled differently in Aion, it'll be fine. If it's broken as badly as it is in L2.. it'll be a joke all over again. And I don't say that out of bitterness or jealousy. I've had no delusions of ever getting Hero. I just don't play at that level. But I do hate when a game system is so horribly exploited and abused, that it's basically pointless.
I could agree with that. My thought of the L2 hero is similar to yours but there is a caveat. One that I'm not thrilled about but I can see the logic in it. L2 has always been about clan and alliances. The game is set up this way. Many people have trouble with the game because they don't quite understand this. So "yes" it's tough to get good equipment or greater rewards if one thinks of themselves. But get a whole clan out there working toward getting mats and leveling their crafters/scavengers and it becomes a lot easier. Now, bring this to the whole hero system and it becomes more of a lesson in one clan or alliance creating their hero. Sure, it is a bit less about personal ability but it is more about the group picking their champion/hero. Western players seem to have a problem with this because we are a bit more oriented to the individual and what the individual can accomplish. change the paradigm and it is about what the clan/alliance can accomplish. this is why feeding points makes sense.
See.. I can see the "clan/ally" effort in other aspects of the game... allies showing up to help defend a castle, etc. However, the Olympiad, as it's explained, is supposed to be a direct competition between players... Me Vs. You and may the best combatant win. The status of Hero is the reward for defeating all challengers. However, what the allies are doing is undermining that system by deliberately giving up points to declare someone the Hero. The points aren't being "won". They're willingly handed over. And I seriously don't think that's the way NC intended it to be used. They're not playing it as intended, they're exploiting a flaw in the design. So, I would agree with you on the clan/ally effort thing in other aspects of the game... because those are all things that are wide-open and group on group... fighting for raid bosses, castle sieges, fort sieges, etc. But.. Olympiad is very deliberately set up as a series of one-on-one competitions. By feeding points, they are circumventing and undermining the system... not following it.
Though you may agree with it in other aspects of the game, it seems to me that the developers have other ideas. If they wanted to mitigate this they could. But they don't. It seems to me that they want this aspect to permeate the entirety of the game. So then the Olympiad isn't a me vs you but a group vs group. As much as players might want it to be one way the devs seem to have a different idea. I don't see this as bad but I do see it as a paradigm shift that many aren't willing to make. |
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12/31/08 3:16:04 PM#55
This system is unfair and just by this news i know at least 7 people (my best friends) just lost interest on this game and trust me we were waiting for this game like hawks. And please dont talk about changing the wow system we saw some youtube videos including tutorials and the game is a wow clone with better grafix which is not all that, gameplay, plot is what we need not some shiny grafix. Well so long aion hopefully codename rapture wont take long...come on SE give us news. By the way FFXI has nothing to do with any other mmorpg its the only unique mmo out there to date, all the other mmos are clones like it or not. |
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12/31/08 3:18:46 PM#56
I'm going to add something here. In a game of chess, not all pieces are equal in power but when used in conjunction, they all can make a significant difference. Certainly a knight is not as powerful as a queen but it's unique abilities can make it devastating. Along with that, a pawn, for all the derogatory meaning that its name can conjure is still very useful and can even turn the tide of the game. It's my feeling that these games utilize a similar philosophy. we don't all get to be queens but we get to become part of a greater whole depending upon our gaming style as well as how we work together. The problem is that everyone wants to automatically be made a Queen when some of us are naturally rooks or knights. |
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12/31/08 3:19:02 PM#57
Originally posted by Albos
The system is not unfair in any shape or form. A terrible player being given the same rank as an awesome player is unfair - and I presume that is what you want. ------------------------------
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12/31/08 3:21:49 PM#58
Originally posted by Booksy
So what? So you think that 100 hero players are going to be "ruin" the game for EVERY other player on the server? Thats just retarded. I think its great that for once in an mmo some people can actually climb to the top and actually BE at the top as opposed to games like WoW where everyone can reach the top and everyone is a hero which is just stupid. Go and watch any fantasy film and you will see that that there are a number of characters that are more powerful than everyone else. You dont get an army of people who are all equal do you? No. Everyone simply plays their part. It might shock you to realise that in an mmo people can work together to help each other so if you want to take down the big old hero guy then you will need to team up with comapnions to do it. This is a good thing. Actually I'm glad you made this post as I might pay a bit of attention to this game now. Anything that pisses off the mainstream players is good in my book. If your only reason for playing a game is to "be the bestest" then thats your problem. You simply need to grow up. |
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12/31/08 3:22:44 PM#59
Originally posted by Sovrath
Though you may agree with it in other aspects of the game, it seems to me that the developers have other ideas. If they wanted to mitigate this they could. But they don't. It seems to me that they want this aspect to permeage the entirety of the game. So then the Olympiad isn't a me vs you but a group vs group. As much as players might want it to be one way the devs seem to have a different idea. I don't see this as bad but I do see it as a paradigm shift that many aren't willing to make. Then I'll have to respectfully agree to disagree. I don't think people getting into the arena and deliberately losing to feed points to the one person that is chosen to be the next hero is what NC intended. I don't think they intended people who are known as among the worst at playing their class to be given a status designated as "best of class" and its very significant rewards. If that were the case, why even bother implementing such an involved system? Simply have the system set up where each Hero is selected by popular vote... Wouldn't be too different from how it's done now; only each "vote" is cast by people feeding their points, instead of casting a "ballot". NC could fix, or mitigate, many things in the game that are screwed up, but don't... botting, hacking... the list goes on. I'd say the reason is more that they don't give a crap enough to bother, as long as they get their subscription fee.
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12/31/08 3:23:22 PM#60
I will love to see your face when the hero guy rape your s over and over till u get numb lmao....and when i say over and over to unlimited, and you know why cause that guy dont have more skills then you but he is a loser who dont work and has the time to grind long enough to get hero. In other words the losers will rule in this game a normal player will be his biatch for ever. Now thats fair to losers and unfair for the rest. |
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