Originally posted by Focker

Originally posted by mcpoopypantz

Originally posted by xpiher

Need at least local chat or finding group is going to be impossible out side of guilds.

 

Odd.. I never had problems finding groups in mmos before the global chat and LFG systems carebearized them. Everyone wants everythign served to them on a silver platter... this game isnt a silver platter serving game

 

Couldn't agree more.  take for example UO.  Enough said

Except that UO didn't have "groups".

Even THAT is a carebear concept but I don't hear people bitching about that.

Global chat as in zone chat, continental  chat, etc...Im sure there will be a trade channel, yell, and say....along with guild, PM, and group.

I actually think that a limitation on chat channels, and especially the exclusion of a global chat channel is a great thing for Darkfall. I've never enjoyed global chat in any game, and find that it seems to be the hangout for gold-farmers, trade-spammers, Chuck Norris fanboys and 7 year olds.

Good move imo.

If OP post is correct (not like we get any real info on this game)...

There has to be some kind of method to communicate to many people at once. Seriously if there is NO methodology for communicating en masse ... well this is getting silly and in some ways really anti social. This could potentially make the game as unwelcoming as the solo'ing and farming WoW kiddies. What am I supposed to do .. log on.. play.. kill / get killed .. play some more and then what ?! How the hell can I intereact with other players quickly ? Let alone find a group of like minded players in my area ? Stupid !

In the first few months of Eve I found the "global" help channel to be brilliant for asking questions. The game is very lonely without the global chat channels.

Global chat is not about breaking immerision its about communicating. People play online games to interact with other people. Finally , the people "crying" about global chat level of immaturity is just silly. If it gets immature and stupid. Just turn it off. The responsibility lies with you ...

As for the whole "GPS" arguement and highlighting various activity in certain areas. Well even without global chat system people will spread information via ventrilo/boards/other chat systems, etc;  Most large guilds seem to use voice comms anyways. Seriously this is the 21st century ! 

Originally posted by tombear81

If OP post is correct (not like we get any real info on this game)...

There has to be some kind of method to communicate to many people at once. Seriously if there is NO methodology for communicating en masse ... well this is getting silly and in some ways really anti social. This could potentially make the game as unwelcoming as the solo'ing and farming WoW kiddies. What am I supposed to do .. log on.. play.. kill / get killed .. play some more and then what ?! How the hell can I intereact with other players quickly ? Let alone find a group of like minded players in my area ? Stupid !

In the first few months of Eve I found the "global" help channel to be brilliant for asking questions. The game is very lonely without the global chat channels.

Global chat is not about breaking immerision its about communicating. People play online games to interact with other people. Finally , the people "crying" about global chat level of immaturity is just silly. If it gets immature and stupid. Just turn it off. The responsibility lies with you ...

As for the whole "GPS" arguement and highlighting various activity in certain areas. Well even without global chat system people will spread information via ventrilo/boards/other chat systems, etc;  Most large guilds seem to use voice comms anyways. Seriously this is the 21st century ! 

This may be hard for you to understand, but i come from Lineage2. Its has no global chats. Its a heavy ffa pvp game. This system is what you really need for a PvP game!

Look at EvE: Online - it has local chats, but the crowds are crying for it to be removed, and rightly so at the start of next year the devs has hopes of replacing the local GPS channel.

In Lineage2 - the socialization went up exponensionally becouse of this feuture, ppl would set times meet up en masse to roleplay or send out pms using friendlists so groups would meet up and socialize character to character to monster to pker to random passerby, whatever might cross you in your adventures.

And everytime you run past someone by chance that you know, its a fine feeeling and often gets you on new adventures thats unexpected.

Compare this to globalchats we see in games like AoC, WoW etc. AoC is prime example of a Ganking game with globalchat, that was really bad. turning it of might help for some, but most will leave the game before bothering asking how to turn it of or finding it themselfs

ANOTHER great example is how global chat was introduzed to Lineage2 to ues by the current heroes (around 28ppl at one time i think) - oh boy did ppl turn that chat off after just a few minutes, and that was just the top players of the server, faaar from the whole server.

Global chats work in games like WoW (althou not pretty) - in PvP and Gank heavy games, its truly terible.

Im talking from years of experience playing games with and without, with gank and pve focus. No global chat for this game is the right thing to do.

Actually the more decision i see adventurine make, the better i understand that they are only gamers trying to make a good PvP sandbox game. Im not sure if they hide info becouse the game sucks or becouse they dont want to spoil, but this is also another point many many oldtimers in the mmo genre hate, not exploring yourself, everything ready on a silver plattern before your character has even spawn for his first time.

Well ill end what is here becomming a rant, but people should be alittle more open minded, Global chat is good sometimes, and sometimes not. I for sure am glad there will be no more the /say /yell /trade /clan /party /ally - Lineage2 style!

for aventurine on this!

Originally posted by fagercraft

Originally posted by tombear81

If OP post is correct (not like we get any real info on this game)...

There has to be some kind of method to communicate to many people at once. Seriously if there is NO methodology for communicating en masse ... well this is getting silly and in some ways really anti social. This could potentially make the game as unwelcoming as the solo'ing and farming WoW kiddies. What am I supposed to do .. log on.. play.. kill / get killed .. play some more and then what ?! How the hell can I intereact with other players quickly ? Let alone find a group of like minded players in my area ? Stupid !

In the first few months of Eve I found the "global" help channel to be brilliant for asking questions. The game is very lonely without the global chat channels.

Global chat is not about breaking immerision its about communicating. People play online games to interact with other people. Finally , the people "crying" about global chat level of immaturity is just silly. If it gets immature and stupid. Just turn it off. The responsibility lies with you ...

As for the whole "GPS" arguement and highlighting various activity in certain areas. Well even without global chat system people will spread information via ventrilo/boards/other chat systems, etc;  Most large guilds seem to use voice comms anyways. Seriously this is the 21st century ! 

 

This may be hard for you to understand, but i come from Lineage2. Its has no global chats. Its a heavy ffa pvp game. This system is what you really need for a PvP game!

Look at EvE: Online - it has local chats, but the crowds are crying for it to be removed, and rightly so at the start of next year the devs has hopes of replacing the local GPS channel.

 

In Lineage2 - the socialization went up exponensionally becouse of this feuture, ppl would set times meet up en masse to roleplay or send out pms using friendlists so groups would meet up and socialize character to character to monster to pker to random passerby, whatever might cross you in your adventures.

And everytime you run past someone by chance that you know, its a fine feeeling and often gets you on new adventures thats unexpected.

Compare this to globalchats we see in games like AoC, WoW etc. AoC is prime example of a Ganking game with globalchat, that was really bad. turning it of might help for some, but most will leave the game before bothering asking how to turn it of or finding it themselfs

ANOTHER great example is how global chat was introduzed to Lineage2 to ues by the current heroes (around 28ppl at one time i think) - oh boy did ppl turn that chat off after just a few minutes, and that was just the top players of the server, faaar from the whole server.

 

Global chats work in games like WoW (althou not pretty) - in PvP and Gank heavy games, its truly terible.

 

Im talking from years of experience playing games with and without, with gank and pve focus. No global chat for this game is the right thing to do.

 

Actually the more decision i see adventurine make, the better i understand that they are only gamers trying to make a good PvP sandbox game. Im not sure if they hide info becouse the game sucks or becouse they dont want to spoil, but this is also another point many many oldtimers in the mmo genre hate, not exploring yourself, everything ready on a silver plattern before your character has even spawn for his first time.

 

Well ill end what is here becomming a rant, but people should be alittle more open minded, Global chat is good sometimes, and sometimes not. I for sure am glad there will be no more the /say /yell /trade /clan /party /ally - Lineage2 style!

for aventurine on this!

No global chat is fine for games that are fairly small because then its easy to find a group in a single town, but DF is suppose to be huge, giagantic, where people can get lost and avoid ganking. Finding a group for any quest outside a guild isn't going to be remotly easy.

They don't want a pvper trying to ambush people outside of town to be broadcasted to the entire server --where the pker is, what his name is, what hes wearing, etc etc-- by his last victim.  Quit bitching about it, this isn't supose to be like the 500 copy mmo's released in the last 8 years.

Originally posted by xpiher

 

No global chat is fine for games that are fairly small because then its easy to find a group in a single town, but DF is suppose to be huge, giagantic, where people can get lost and avoid ganking. Finding a group for any quest outside a guild isn't going to be remotly easy.

Lineage2 are one of the bigger worl games out there, so is EvE.

And the way you found groups in L2 was by expanding a friends network, socializing within a guild and going to popular grind dungeons for pugs (this might be risky in a lesser penalty for pk system DF seems to have over Lineage2).

Sure i agree on a general level there was less socializing if thats what you call global chats in WoW/AoC. But the community you build after playing, the friends you made... the socializing you did was just that much better, more personal and double that with the importance of a reputation in these PvP games, it truly was  a prime option to make the worlds fun to explore in, exiting when meeting random people (will he gank, or perhaps he needs help, should i help or do i feel evil).

As i said, there is a reason why EvE wants to get rid of Local chat (there is however options to join global chats other then guild, since it has a built in IRC system basically). It makes the world feels larger, more unknown.

But i guess this is matter of taste also, and after reading it myself i understand that its hard to grasp unless youve truly imersed yourself in the worlds like Lineage2 when it flourished.

Sometimes... less is more. Hopefulle adventurine wills tick to it IMO :) !

Originally posted by 1-8-7

They don't want a pvper trying to ambush people outside of town to be broadcasted to the entire server --where the pker is, what his name is, what hes wearing, etc etc-- by his last victim.  Quit bitching about it, this isn't supose to be like the 500 copy mmo's released in the last 8 years.

Just because a game has global chat doesn't mean its a clone. Global chat just makes getting groups ect easier.

But I see your point on that. Gues I'll have to join a guild asap. With the built IRC I guess it won't be too hard to find people.

Originally posted by 1-8-7

They don't want a pvper trying to ambush people outside of town to be broadcasted to the entire server --where the pker is, what his name is, what hes wearing, etc etc-- by his last victim.  Quit bitching about it, this isn't supose to be like the 500 copy mmo's released in the last 8 years.

Also, they dont want the gankers to instantly know if a area is occupied with loads of ppl due to a general chat, in Lineage2 if you where at war, you where never keen to use the /yell chat, since that would tell all your enemies within a large area that you where there.

the yellchat was really big thou, and i hope atleast a yell chat exists - but im heavily Lineage2 biased hehehe. Just love the community such a system creates, since on most occasions when talking in l2, you did it in a more personal way, it wasnt just some randoms you could piss of in general and forget about. Since if you actually chatted and pissed someone of the chances where that they where also close to you and could be hunting you if you where pissing em off.

Its exiting to see adventurine doing there thing ;) - Just really hope there not all just talk (pleasepleaseplease /prays)

Originally posted by xpiher

Originally posted by 1-8-7

They don't want a pvper trying to ambush people outside of town to be broadcasted to the entire server --where the pker is, what his name is, what hes wearing, etc etc-- by his last victim.  Quit bitching about it, this isn't supose to be like the 500 copy mmo's released in the last 8 years.

 

Just because a game has global chat doesn't mean its a clone. Global chat just makes getting groups ect easier.

But I see your point on that. Gues I'll have to join a guild asap. With the built IRC I guess it won't be too hard to find people.

Im guessing hes just irritated that every one is expecting global chat just becouse ever mmo since the WoW era has done it like WoW - there are awesome games that really only would take dmg from a global chat (AoC should REALLY have skipped that imo).

Originally posted by fagercraft 

This may be hard for you to understand, but i come from Lineage2. Its has no global chats. Its a heavy ffa pvp game. This system is what you really need for a PvP game!

Look at EvE: Online - it has local chats, but the crowds are crying for it to be removed, and rightly so at the start of next year the devs has hopes of replacing the local GPS channel.

In Lineage2 - the socialization went up exponensionally becouse of this feuture, ppl would set times meet up en masse to roleplay or send out pms using friendlists so groups would meet up and socialize character to character to monster to pker to random passerby, whatever might cross you in your adventures.

And everytime you run past someone by chance that you know, its a fine feeeling and often gets you on new adventures thats unexpected.

Compare this to globalchats we see in games like AoC, WoW etc. AoC is prime example of a Ganking game with globalchat, that was really bad. turning it of might help for some, but most will leave the game before bothering asking how to turn it of or finding it themselfs

ANOTHER great example is how global chat was introduzed to Lineage2 to ues by the current heroes (around 28ppl at one time i think) - oh boy did ppl turn that chat off after just a few minutes, and that was just the top players of the server, faaar from the whole server.

 

Global chats work in games like WoW (althou not pretty) - in PvP and Gank heavy games, its truly terible.

 

Im talking from years of experience playing games with and without, with gank and pve focus. No global chat for this game is the right thing to do.

 

Actually the more decision i see adventurine make, the better i understand that they are only gamers trying to make a good PvP sandbox game. Im not sure if they hide info becouse the game sucks or becouse they dont want to spoil, but this is also another point many many oldtimers in the mmo genre hate, not exploring yourself, everything ready on a silver plattern before your character has even spawn for his first time.

 

Well ill end what is here becomming a rant, but people should be alittle more open minded, Global chat is good sometimes, and sometimes not. I for sure am glad there will be no more the /say /yell /trade /clan /party /ally - Lineage2 style!

for aventurine on this!

Sorry but I dont see the issue with something which can be turned off. If you dont know how to turn it off I am sure DF won't be a great game for that person anwyays, I say that coming from Eve where the standard interface display is useless. Anyway make use of it or dont. If its spam ridden don't use it turn it off. Maybe divide into smaller chunks or segregate high population areas from lower ? I know I turn off local in Eve when in Jita !

Also if the game world is so large then no amount of giving out information will be useful. In eve the local system chats is useful for alerting people to a gate camp I have just encoutered on the other side of a jumpgate. Seems a fair use, I also have the option of NOT saying.

The RP aspect seems a good point but again people can arrange to meet on masse togather regardless of global chats or not (I'd tihnk an in game message board / calender with googlemap like functionality would be great for this). I highly suspect that like Eve guilds will have a "geographical" presence and be near on another anyways. Which is why most of them will simply use ventrillo or another system.

Seriously I don't see how I am going to interact and find like minded players beyond that of wandering around and boring the S*£t out of people with /say and /tell. Seems like I have to go into this game with my already preformed guild and simply use ventrillo ? Seems like the average guy who goes into this game solo will just get excluded. If the game is so big I can see this turning to walking simulator like the  empty areas in VG. :( 

This is not cool for 21st century social gaming, it exactly as bad a solo'ing pointless grindfest like WoW only its found a whole new way to be anti social.

I dont know if this has been stated already cause I only read the OP.

I think there will still be radial chat for shouts and normal out of group talking. I mean look at UO. it didnt have any of that.. it was all local radial chat.. its been a while since I played UO so I cant remember 100%, but I think the only thing that was global was guild chat

anyhow I think it might have been a misunderstanding. because yes, that would be really silly to have no local chat. I mean you cant talk to someone standing right next to you if your not in their group? lame heh.. but I think its still a misunderstanding

Originally posted by fagercraft 

Also, they dont want the gankers to instantly know if a area is occupied with loads of ppl due to a general chat, in Lineage2 if you where at war, you where never keen to use the /yell chat, since that would tell all your enemies within a large area that you where there.

Gankers will probably know anyways regardless of chat channels... why ?

Since most MMO's have people exhibit flocking behaviour even when unintended (e.g. Jita in Eve) I highly suspect  those that like to attack other players will know where to go to maximize kills.  Its pretty obvious from DF design where people will be at least to begin with. This doesn't take rocket science.

UO didn't have global chat.  If you wanted to trade, there were places where people congregated to trade and usually sit around and talk.  You could find groups there too.  Most random groups I had though were just random other people that happen to be at the same area/dungeon.

If you have global chat, the pk will run as soon as you tell everyone where he is.  That or pks will set traps and then tell everyone there is a lone pk there then gank them.

Good luck finding a group.  "LFG for dungeon X"  10 pks run to that dungeon making it impossible for at least the next hour.  Do you guys think through these features in a FFA pvp game?  If the game isn't fun enough without random chuck norris jokes then it probably isn't the right game for you.  I sure as hell don't play games I find boring even if they do have chuck norris jokes.  Seriously, you can go to chat rooms without the $15 if you don't find the game fun.

Even travelling you will have to worry about being attacked by pks and other factions.  I think the devs intend DF to be a world game anyway not a theme park.  You won't be expected to run across it on a daily basis.  Players will be more likely to "live" in local areas and go on real journeys to dungeons and other cities.  You can't think of it in terms of MMORPG's because it will be more of a world game, unlike every EQ clone.

edit: forgot to quote: this is a reply to Tombear81 a few replies above.

To each there own i guess...

a few points of interest:

AoC global chat made many ppl quit, the few who saw the holyness the game was with it turned off was few a far between compared to the ppl who where /quit after a few minutes of  "go back to WoW" comments. No global chat would have saved ALOT of trouble at start.

Global Chat in PvP centric games becomes like this forum, if you want the bashing go to the forums. And no most ppl wont turn a global chat of, since when it exists most party looking is made throu it also, wich means turning it of means killing a big chunk of party matchmaking. Just turning global chats of are RARELY a all good option, and few choose to do that. Instead they try to live with it like AoC and get sick of it.

Lineage 2 again had no global chat, it had a global party matchmaking system, but none used it since all ppl went to town to find party, pmed friends, went to popular party hubs, partied with ppl they met on there adventures. The global system existed, but wasnt even used since party making was not a problem anyway.

You say in 21 century not having a global is outdated, this is what pisses many ppl of. Its not outdated, its just that every game is trying to do what wow does - even if global chat woulnt fit there game, wow had it so the big masses demands it ot else its "outdated". Its very narrowminded thinking, try it and if you still hate it the so be it.

For those that have truly played non global chat pvp sandbox games and dislike it, all we can do is agree to disagree then :) - im just trying to enlighten ppl that Global Chat have been a negative part of some new games like AoC, its not a must and not always a good thing. It comes with good and bad sides. Its not a never and better version of old mmos chat systems. Its a different chatsystem.

Originally posted by tombear81

Originally posted by fagercraft 

Also, they dont want the gankers to instantly know if a area is occupied with loads of ppl due to a general chat, in Lineage2 if you where at war, you where never keen to use the /yell chat, since that would tell all your enemies within a large area that you where there.

 

Gankers will probably know anyways regardless of chat channels... why ?

Since most MMO's have people exhibit flocking behaviour even when unintended (e.g. Jita in Eve) I highly suspect  those that like to attack other players will know where to go to maximize kills.  Its pretty obvious from DF design where people will be at least to begin with. This doesn't take rocket science.

Cant really compare to Jita as that was a pretty much safezone in EvE. But yeah gankers would know some places where the likelyhood of prey to be found was. But imagine trying to find prey in 0.0 and lowsec without Local. think about that and then tell me again gankers would still know where to look :D . Theyd have to do shitloads of scanning in each system unless they had obtained information of more stationary bases of operation belonging to enemies/preys.

Also smart players would also know where most gankers would be camping, making the places move around alot in a big open world. It kinda goes both ways.

Originally posted by fagercraft

Originally posted by tombear81

Originally posted by fagercraft 

Also, they dont want the gankers to instantly know if a area is occupied with loads of ppl due to a general chat, in Lineage2 if you where at war, you where never keen to use the /yell chat, since that would tell all your enemies within a large area that you where there.

 

Gankers will probably know anyways regardless of chat channels... why ?

Since most MMO's have people exhibit flocking behaviour even when unintended (e.g. Jita in Eve) I highly suspect  those that like to attack other players will know where to go to maximize kills.  Its pretty obvious from DF design where people will be at least to begin with. This doesn't take rocket science.

 

Cant really compare to Jita as that was a pretty much safezone in EvE. But yeah gankers would know some places where the likelyhood of prey to be found was. But imagine trying to find prey in 0.0 and lowsec without Local. think about that and then tell me again gankers would still know where to look :D . Theyd have to do shitloads of scanning in each system unless they had obtained information of more stationary bases of operation belonging to enemies/preys.

Also smart players would also know where most gankers would be camping, making the places move around alot in a big open world. It kinda goes both ways.

Um you could just use the statistic map in Eve to gleam information on how many people have passed through the gate in the last hour. And this is *nothing* to do with using local. Though scanning is fairly easy to do especially as monst systems have a core of inner planets which can all be caught on the directional scanner.

Honestly I think neither of us know how DF is going to implement a "hunter" / "prey" system and do the ternal dance. Though I honestly think it may prove too much a challenge.

Originally posted by jakojako

I was reading on the darkfall forums, and I stumbled upon this thread: http://forums.darkfallonline.com/showthread.php?t=93973

I thought it was a kinda interesting thread, so I read through a few pages until I eventually got to a post from a darkfall moderator:

"This might help.

Quote:
http://www.warcry.com/articles/view/devjournals/darkfalljournals/3329-Darkfall-Developer-Journal-3-Artifical-Intelligence
"We've limited global chat channels compared to many other games, but guild chat is something we simply can not remove for many reasons, one of the more important being that we see it as an effort to level the playing field between people who use 3rd party communications, and those that don’t use them.

Guild and group chat are the only global chat channels we have. We also have single recipient /tell PMs.""

----------

Yes, this means NO local chat, NO regional chat, NO trade chat, NO yell chat, NO broadcast chat, NO chat at all EXCEPT Guild, Group, and PM.

Personally this is a HUGE turnoff. If this is actually true, my hype meter for this game went from a 30 of 10 to a 6 of 10.

Without the chat options that they're leaving out, the game will likely feel like a single player. I likely will never hear from that one kid I pk'd, i'll never hear people selling items, i'll never hear random idiot spammers.

While some of those things may be annoying at times, they're (IMO) a crucial part to the MASSIVELY MULTIPLAYER aspect of an MMORPG.

Just curious to hear your thoughts on this.

No general chats, global, even regional is a great thing.  It discourages spammers and traders eating up your screen with walls of text.  It means traders will actually have to go to a marketplace area to actively trades his/her wares..  It actually encourages interaction and effort.  Wow, who woulda thunk, a multiplayer game that encourages you to make friends, while making it easy for you to be a loner.  I can think of a few games that don't offer that...  The actual point of a game being a MMORPG is the RPG aspect, not the MMO aspect.  There are plenty of MMO's.. but don't be the idiot that decides to claim that a game like WoW is a RPG.

If not having a general chat is going to prevent you from buying a game.. or seriously alter your perception, then maybe that's a good thing.  I'd rather have one less casual carebear WoW fanboi trying to spam my regional chat with useless BS.  You'll see that guy you PK'd again I'm sure... and I really don't understand how you think seeing spammer chat is a good thing.

Good luck dude.

Its late here so I'll say this much.

How the heck am I suposed to communicate on mass with the population ? How am I supposed to get help on starting out ?  How am I suposed to join this game and find a set of like minded people ?  How am I supposed to draw people togather in ad hoc alliance for some temporary task ? Run around and pick people up ? Stand on a  street corner for hours ? (that could lead to some isses)

I can see the appeal in not having it and I can certainly see less aggro. But there are massive draw backs. It obvious that if this game seems ok one month after release and I decided to buy; I need a guild/forum read BEFORE I go into the game. In essence prepare to play the game. Thats crazy! Probably more preparation than reading the manuals of old. This is this bit not 21st century friendly. Its really not user friendly at all. Though personally this is why I think games should implement zero tolerance on mouthing off on global channels. The racism in WoW still makes me cringe. People abuse global.

Anwyays I completely agree that global chats can get stupid but they do have a purpose. And sorry to be repetative but turning global chat off is a simple skill in a game like DF which purports to be so "hardcore"

Originally posted by tombear81

Originally posted by fagercraft

Originally posted by tombear81

Originally posted by fagercraft 

Also, they dont want the gankers to instantly know if a area is occupied with loads of ppl due to a general chat, in Lineage2 if you where at war, you where never keen to use the /yell chat, since that would tell all your enemies within a large area that you where there.

 

Gankers will probably know anyways regardless of chat channels... why ?

Since most MMO's have people exhibit flocking behaviour even when unintended (e.g. Jita in Eve) I highly suspect  those that like to attack other players will know where to go to maximize kills.  Its pretty obvious from DF design where people will be at least to begin with. This doesn't take rocket science.

 

Cant really compare to Jita as that was a pretty much safezone in EvE. But yeah gankers would know some places where the likelyhood of prey to be found was. But imagine trying to find prey in 0.0 and lowsec without Local. think about that and then tell me again gankers would still know where to look :D . Theyd have to do shitloads of scanning in each system unless they had obtained information of more stationary bases of operation belonging to enemies/preys.

Also smart players would also know where most gankers would be camping, making the places move around alot in a big open world. It kinda goes both ways.

 

Um you could just use the statistic map in Eve to gleam information on how many people have passed through the gate in the last hour. And this is *nothing* to do with using local. Though scanning is fairly easy to do especially as monst systems have a core of inner planets which can all be caught on the directional scanner.

 

Honestly I think neither of us know how DF is going to implement a "hunter" / "prey" system and do the ternal dance. Though I honestly think it may prove too much a challenge.

Well i do agree that comparing EvE to DF is hard, if you have played Lineage2 however theres a game very similar to DF in its chat/pk system. In lineage2 rep played a huge role also. And gankers that went red was hunted like mad since the dropped lots of loot. Unless the red player was protected by its clan, wich escelated to clan wars and so on.

Its scaringly how much Lineage2 pvp system and community system is like DF seems to be. The rest of the games differ alot thou like PvE and skill systems.

And im telling you just giving a few 30 ppl per server a global chat was a disaster, it didnt fit into the open PvP at all and was used 95% to shout forumfall like drama and 5% to spam WTS/WTB over the whole server.

Open world sandbox games are so very different from instanced closed pvp/pve games that you cant really say that becouse one has it, its best for the other type to have it also.

Ill bet 10bucks that a general/global chat in DF will be filled with 99% smacktalking from day 1, ppl will get sick and quit or learn how to turn it off, or join the smacktalking. Turning it off also means you miss out that 1% LFG signs in there, so the ppl who want global for party matching will have to live with the smacktalk. It will be AoC all over again....

At the end of the day youll just get sick of the smacktalkers talking shit to there preys/gankers in a fight that was miles away from you. (another point that its not easy to compare to eve, since there where no 1 globalchat in there, you joined the global chat that you know had your type of ppl in it)

The telephone was invented in 1876. Consumer cellphone's were invented in 1973. Somehow humanity survived thousands of years without the ability to instantly communicate across the world in an instant. And yet not being able to do so in a game is doom. Hmm.

What did the invention of the cell phone do in the real world? For those old enough to remember, it did more than just open up communication. It also drastically decreased the time people spent actually around eachother. Why go to see someone in person when you can just call them? It could be argued that long distance communication did more to split people apart than bring them together.

This is an mmo, most definitely. But 1000's of people all off doing their own thing solo because they can just send instant tells to everyone else is hardly massively multiplayer. Running with a warband together is massively multiplayer. Looking over a hill and seeing an army of freaks headed your way is massively multiplayer. Walking through a crowded city full of players all trying to sell their wares is massively multiplayer. There will be chat channels to talk to people that are actually in the same area you are. There will be guild chat. There will be a reason to actually go to where other people are. And there will be a reason to actually go where people aren't.

No global chat != No region chat
No global chat != No local chat

Somehow humanity will struggle through this horrible dark time without magical telepathic communications. I just know it.

Originally posted by tombear81

Its late here so I'll say this much.

How the heck am I suposed to communicate on mass with the population ? How am I supposed to get help on starting out ?  How am I suposed to join this game and find a set of like minded people ?  How am I supposed to draw people togather in ad hoc alliance for some temporary task ? Run around and pick people up ? Stand on a  street corner for hours ? (that could lead to some isses)

I can see the appeal in not having it and I can certainly see less aggro. But there are massive draw backs. It obvious that if this game seems ok one month after release and I decided to buy; I need a guild/forum read BEFORE I go into the game. In essence prepare to play the game. Thats crazy! Probably more preparation than reading the manuals of old. This is this bit not 21st century friendly. Its really not user friendly at all. Though personally this is why I think games should implement zero tolerance on mouthing off on global channels. The racism in WoW still makes me cringe. People abuse global.

Anwyays I completely agree that global chats can get stupid but they do have a purpose. And sorry to be repetative but turning global chat off is a simple skill in a game like DF which purports to be so "hardcore"

 

You can communicate by using whispers, yellchat in public hubs, forums. You will find like minded people on your adventures, not by the spam in global thats for sure. Alliance organization would be either alliance chat or each clan would have to spread the word to its members. This happened alot with our alliance and 2 other alliances in Lineage2, we set a date and time for big big zerg raid and it was spread on all 3 alliance channels. Then we formed raid and all communications worket perfectly.

Have in  mind a game with open PvP like this is MUCH MUCH more guild and friend driven and depends alot less on PuGs due to obvious reasons (cant trust randoms, couse they can backstab unlike games like WoW/EQ).

To learn the game you can explore yourself in start, if you have special questions go and ask some friends youve made early on, or in town, or outside game, or in a newbie friendly guild you just joined. Asking questions in global chat will often resoult in "go back to wow wher you get everything handed to you!" kinda flames, It happened in AoC ALOT.

Actually finding out stuff for oneself seems to be considered "outdated feuture" in games these days, but with all the thottbot sites/leveling guides thats become a standard today i understand why many ppl today call this "userfriendly", i see it more as "booring/spoiling". Sometimes i think ppl feel its impossible if there isnt a IKEA step by step howto to "how to attack" popup at start of each game they play. I like finding out alot of stuff for myself, not that i dont ask question couse i do - but saying a global chat means life or death in beginning a game is kinda.. spoiled imo. You can learn alot yourself and some common sense, unless your starting up EvE, that learning curve is.... intense!

This system has worked perfectly fine before the WoW era, no reason why it should be inferior now. And if information before trial and error is so important, there will be hundreds of guides on public forums to dig into in a matter of days.

Originally posted by tombear81

Its late here so I'll say this much.

How the heck am I suposed to communicate on mass with the population ? How am I supposed to get help on starting out ?  How am I suposed to join this game and find a set of like minded people ?  How am I supposed to draw people togather in ad hoc alliance for some temporary task ? Run around and pick people up ? Stand on a  street corner for hours ? (that could lead to some isses)

I can see the appeal in not having it and I can certainly see less aggro. But there are massive draw backs. It obvious that if this game seems ok one month after release and I decided to buy; I need a guild/forum read BEFORE I go into the game. In essence prepare to play the game. Thats crazy! Probably more preparation than reading the manuals of old. This is this bit not 21st century friendly. Its really not user friendly at all. Though personally this is why I think games should implement zero tolerance on mouthing off on global channels. The racism in WoW still makes me cringe. People abuse global.

Anwyays I completely agree that global chats can get stupid but they do have a purpose. And sorry to be repetative but turning global chat off is a simple skill in a game like DF which purports to be so "hardcore"

 

These types of games aren't meant to be easy.  But, I am accepting of the fact that the majority of gamers today have gotten into the genre via World of Warcraft.. where your hand is held from start to finish.

In these games you are expected to do what it takes, even if that means making friends and joining guilds.  These games are not focused on large raids and tasks that take entire groups to complete.  Most of what you will encounter in a game like this will be able to be done by yourself or with a couple friends.  It is labeled "hardcore" because you are actually expected to put effort into becoming successful, you are expected to act on your own, be your own boss... walk across the street by yourself.  Just give it a chance.. and if you don't like it.. at least you tried.  People may not like the sound of certain things.. but when they actually see how it works, sometimes it turns out just fine.

Originally posted by Deathstrike2

Originally posted by ste2000

It is not about turning things off, it is about community filtering.

No global chat, like full PvP loot, will keep brats away.
It is part of DF design to specifically target a certain niche of player, and alienate more carebear oriented players, so they don't ruin the experience for the core players who will play this game.

That's one of the reason I like DF, Aventurine don't give a damn about the masses, they just want to make the best game they can for that kind of niche players.
I wish other devs had the balls to do the same.

 

Yeah, right. 

1.  Full loot PvP attracts "brats" and griefers.  Not saying that is the only people who like it, but they'll come crawling out of the woodwork for this game, global chat or not. 

2.  The company making DF is a business.  Businesses exist to make money.  If you believe even for a minute that they aren't interested in getting all the customers they can, you're out of touch with reality.

I doubt very seriously whether or not this decision comes down to having balls or not.  Don't be surprised if global is added after the fact if it's really not in game at launch.  WAR learned that lesson very quickly.

Its nice of you to read the minds and feelings of the people currently working on Darkfall and share your findings with us. I'm sure they would love to hear you tell them that they are not interested in making a good game that is aimed at a particular niche of players and in fact are all money grabbing leeches.

Has it ever occurred to you that a business is comprised of individual human beings and each one of those human beings has their own personal hopes, goals and dreams. Yes I'm sure they do want to make money but that isnt neccessarily the main reason for them choosing to make a computer game. If you think it is then you need to prove it. A company is merely a collection of people and not all people are the same......so saying all companies are only motivated by money is obviously just bollocks. It might shock you to consider the possibility that maybe.....just maybe their main goal is to make a good game and that maybe they actually enjoy making it. Not everyones is as greedy as you think and I'm sorry you have such a negative view of the companies that provide you with entertainment. There are actually a lot of creative people out there that simply want to put their creative skills to good use and feel proud about making a successful product that provides enjoyment to many people. I know for me personally an achievement like that mean more to me than a load of cash.......although obviously if the product was that good then the moeny would naturally follow anyway.

You should also remember that Aventurine is a very small company which are very personally involved in their product. If their only interest was to rake in as many subscriptions as possible then they would only have needed to make another WoW clone which would have been a lot easier to make. However Mythic tried to appeal to everyone by copying WoW and look at the crap they ended up churning out. If you want an example of a company that is heavily motivated by money and subscription numbers and isnt really emotionally invested in their product then you need look no further than Mythic.