Originally posted by Aldwin

(....)

The myth of "good" players helping to protect the players from gankers is a bunch of bull. Its pretty rare for any player to want to spend significant time trying to help other players.

What happens instead is that the gankers thrive on spoiling the game experience of others and only end up leaving when their victims stop playing.

This person speaks the truth, and also makes a great point on why DF will not cater to the majority of players and will only have a small niche fan base, Which in turn will mean a limited budget for DF.

Why not leave the players handle it instead of some game mechanic? Wasn't that the whole idea of MMOs?

What comes around goes around.

Darkfall is just like all the other mmorpg before it release.  Big prommises but will prox do nothing special or right and die slowly.

Originally posted by Craxis

Well I only see one thing that can prevent this.  Have your clan own a town, hire about 100 npcs to gaurd it, and have each one of those gaurds Kill On Sight EVERYONE except for clan members. 

I know everyone thinks that players will prevent ganking, but they won't/don't prevent it.  They haven't prevented it before, and they never will prevent it now or in the future.  If we really want to get technical having a clan only city wont prevent it either need a I remind you of "YOU STOLE MY CLOUDSONG!"  his own clan mates killed him and took his stuff. 

the "YOU ZERGED MY CLOUDSONG" was a fake btw

Originally posted by zymurgeist

Originally posted by neonwire

 

Yes experience shows that level based PvE games that had PvP added to them as an after thought opened themselves up to lots of ganking and griefing because PvP was not what the games were designed around.

Darkfall IS designed around a PvP concept and not only is it not a level based game but players also cannot see each others stats so you can never really pick an easy victim with any certainty as there is no real way to gain a massively unfair advantage that makes a player godlike in comparison to their victims. There is no "I am 20 levels higher than you so I win" scenario in Darkfall. Therefore the PvP in all the previous games like AoC, WoW, EQ etc cannot be compared to Darkfall. Fact of life.

 

Sure there is.  You grind your fotm toon's skills to the top just as you would in any level based game then you a few (dozen) of your closest friends go looking for a fight in the lower level mob spawns. Fact of life. Happened in every PvP game ever. Happened in UO, will happen in Darkfall. You don't need to see stats to know what an easy victim is. If you pick on the wrong person no big deal there's plenty of noobs out there trying to level or find crafting supplies.

I have highlighted the text in red where you are clearly going wrong in your line of thinking. Lots of people are making exactly the same assumptions as you are so you are not alone with this misguided way of thinking.

1. You grind your skills to the top? Which skills are you talking about? All of them? Ermmm....sorry I dont think thats actually possible as I believe skills degrade over time through lack of use. So your telling me that a player is going to be constantly using every weapon available, casting every type of spell available, constantly sneaking around, constantly firing every missile and thrown weapon, constantly wearing every type of armour available and always getting hit and learning to adapt to it, constantly running, jumping, swimming, fist fighting, fishing, cooking, crafting etc and becoming amazing at it.....and basicly constantly using every single skill available in the game so that no skill ever goes below "the best". Yeah so your going to max out ALL of those skills are you and become "better" than some other player that you cant even know anything about? Oh really? I would love to see how that works lol

2. Lower level mob spawns? Hmmm.....ok.....lets try this again shall we. I will use capital letters this time and make them a bit larger. Maybe....just maybe....you might actually read it and maybe.....just maybe.....you might actually be able to keep the knowledge in your head for longer than a goldfish can......

THERE ARE NO LEVELS IN DARKFALL

Got it now? Or have you erased it from your mind already? No levels = no lower level mob spawns.

3. Ganking happened in every PvP game ever? Name all of the mmos you can think of that were not originally designed as PvE games. Hmmm....having some difficulty there are you? Oh thats right.....its because you cant think beyond all of the PvE games you have played which had broken PvP game mechanics in them. The only game you can manage to bring up is Ultima Online. You do realise that that game is about 10 years old right? So basicly just because one game that was made 10 years ago had PvP in it and it also had ganking then every other game that ever gets made which has PvP at its core will ALWAYS be rife with ganking. Yeah brilliant thinking there! Its a good thing that not everyone thinks like you do because otherwise the human race would never have gotten past the stone age. We have managed to make giant metal birds fly in the sky. We have managed to generate artificial black holes. Some how I think making a successful PvP game with good game mechanics is quite easily within our capabilities. You do understand the concept of learning from mistakes right?

Oh and EVE is a pretty successful PvP game but then it was designed with PvP in mind.......rather like Darkfall

4. If you pick on the wrong person no big deal.......except that the intended victim ends up killing the ganker, stealing all of their stuff and subjecting them to whatever death penalties that Darkfall has......which basicly means that there was never any ganking taking place in the first place. It was simply a player fighting another player which is the point of the game anyway

You do realise dont you that the simple fact that a player does not have a guaranteed victory over any other player completely negates the whole ganking complaint right? What people refer to as ganking in other games is actually the correct way to play Darkfall. If you see another player who you think of as an enemy and wish to kill them and also think you have some kind of advantage over them then you would have to be a complete idiot to not make use of that advantage. Thats not ganking. Thats just being sensible.

5. Plenty of noobs out there trying to level. Hmmmm.....I feel it may be neccessary to insert that line of text again......

THERE ARE NO LEVELS IN DARKFALL

.....and yeah there will be plenty of noobs about. So.....care to tell me which ones they are? How do you spot the "noob" who has been given some top of the range armour and weapons by his friends? Can you tell that the guy over there wearing farmers clothes and a straw hat is actually a master swordsman with some training in spellcraft? Nahh didnt think so. People going into the game expecting to find easy pickings are going to get their arses handed to them on a plate. They will probably end up quitting and will go back to the other PvE games where ganking is possible and easy.

Originally posted by neonwire

Originally posted by zymurgeist

Originally posted by neonwire

 

Yes experience shows that level based PvE games that had PvP added to them as an after thought opened themselves up to lots of ganking and griefing because PvP was not what the games were designed around.

Darkfall IS designed around a PvP concept and not only is it not a level based game but players also cannot see each others stats so you can never really pick an easy victim with any certainty as there is no real way to gain a massively unfair advantage that makes a player godlike in comparison to their victims. There is no "I am 20 levels higher than you so I win" scenario in Darkfall. Therefore the PvP in all the previous games like AoC, WoW, EQ etc cannot be compared to Darkfall. Fact of life.

 

Sure there is.  You grind your fotm toon's skills to the top just as you would in any level based game then you a few (dozen) of your closest friends go looking for a fight in the lower level mob spawns. Fact of life. Happened in every PvP game ever. Happened in UO, will happen in Darkfall. You don't need to see stats to know what an easy victim is. If you pick on the wrong person no big deal there's plenty of noobs out there trying to level or find crafting supplies.

 

I have highlighted the text in red where you are clearly going wrong in your line of thinking. Lots of people are making exactly the same assumptions as you are so you are not alone with this misguided way of thinking.

1. You grind your skills to the top? Which skills are you talking about? All of them? Ermmm....sorry I dont think thats actually possible as I believe skills degrade over time through lack of use. So your telling me that a player is going to be constantly using every weapon available, casting every type of spell available, constantly sneaking around, constantly firing every missile and thrown weapon, constantly wearing every type of armour available and always getting hit and learning to adapt to it, constantly running, jumping, swimming, fist fighting, fishing, cooking, crafting etc and becoming amazing at it.....and basicly constantly using every single skill available in the game so that no skill ever goes below "the best". Yeah so your going to max out ALL of those skills are you and become "better" than some other player that you cant even know anything about? Oh really? I would love to see how that works lol

2. Lower level mob spawns? Hmmm.....ok.....lets try this again shall we. I will use capital letters this time and make them a bit larger. Maybe....just maybe....you might actually read it and maybe.....just maybe.....you might actually be able to keep the knowledge in your head for longer than a goldfish can......

THERE ARE NO LEVELS IN DARKFALL

Got it now? Or have you erased it from your mind already? No levels = no lower level mob spawns.

3. Ganking happened in every PvP game ever? Name all of the mmos you can think of that were not originally designed as PvE games. Hmmm....having some difficulty there are you? Oh thats right.....its because you cant think beyond all of the PvE games you have played which had broken PvP game mechanics in them. The only game you can manage to bring up is Ultima Online. You do realise that that game is about 10 years old right? So basicly just because one game that was made 10 years ago had PvP in it and it also had ganking then every other game that ever gets made which has PvP at its core will ALWAYS be rife with ganking. Yeah brilliant thinking there! Its a good thing that not everyone thinks like you do because otherwise the human race would never have gotten past the stone age. We have managed to make giant metal birds fly in the sky. We have managed to generate artificial black holes. Some how I think making a successful PvP game with good game mechanics is quite easily within our capabilities. You do understand the concept of learning from mistakes right?

Oh and EVE is a pretty successful PvP game but then it was designed with PvP in mind.......rather like Darkfall

4. If you pick on the wrong person no big deal.......except that the intended victim ends up killing the ganker, stealing all of their stuff and subjecting them to whatever death penalties that Darkfall has......which basicly means that there was never any ganking taking place in the first place. It was simply a player fighting another player which is the point of the game anyway

You do realise dont you that the simple fact that a player does not have a guaranteed victory over any other player completely negates the whole ganking complaint right? What people refer to as ganking in other games is actually the correct way to play Darkfall. If you see another player who you think of as an enemy and wish to kill them and also think you have some kind of advantage over them then you would have to be a complete idiot to not make use of that advantage. Thats not ganking. Thats just being sensible.

5. Plenty of noobs out there trying to level. Hmmmm.....I feel it may be neccessary to insert that line of text again......

THERE ARE NO LEVELS IN DARKFALL

.....and yeah there will be plenty of noobs about. So.....care to tell me which ones they are? How do you spot the "noob" who has been given some top of the range armour and weapons by his friends? Can you tell that the guy over there wearing farmers clothes and a straw hat is actually a master swordsman with some training in spellcraft? Nahh didnt think so. People going into the game expecting to find easy pickings are going to get their arses handed to them on a plate. They will probably end up quitting and will go back to the other PvE games where ganking is possible and easy.

Please try to be civil.  When a reply to a message seems like you are trying to belittle that person it doesn't make you look smart.  You only succeed in making yourself seem immature.   It's the discussion area not the arguement and insult area. 
 

Originally posted by Craxis

Originally posted by neonwire

Originally posted by zymurgeist

Originally posted by neonwire

 

Yes experience shows that level based PvE games that had PvP added to them as an after thought opened themselves up to lots of ganking and griefing because PvP was not what the games were designed around.

Darkfall IS designed around a PvP concept and not only is it not a level based game but players also cannot see each others stats so you can never really pick an easy victim with any certainty as there is no real way to gain a massively unfair advantage that makes a player godlike in comparison to their victims. There is no "I am 20 levels higher than you so I win" scenario in Darkfall. Therefore the PvP in all the previous games like AoC, WoW, EQ etc cannot be compared to Darkfall. Fact of life.

 

Sure there is.  You grind your fotm toon's skills to the top just as you would in any level based game then you a few (dozen) of your closest friends go looking for a fight in the lower level mob spawns. Fact of life. Happened in every PvP game ever. Happened in UO, will happen in Darkfall. You don't need to see stats to know what an easy victim is. If you pick on the wrong person no big deal there's plenty of noobs out there trying to level or find crafting supplies.

 

I have highlighted the text in red where you are clearly going wrong in your line of thinking. Lots of people are making exactly the same assumptions as you are so you are not alone with this misguided way of thinking.

1. You grind your skills to the top? Which skills are you talking about? All of them? Ermmm....sorry I dont think thats actually possible as I believe skills degrade over time through lack of use. So your telling me that a player is going to be constantly using every weapon available, casting every type of spell available, constantly sneaking around, constantly firing every missile and thrown weapon, constantly wearing every type of armour available and always getting hit and learning to adapt to it, constantly running, jumping, swimming, fist fighting, fishing, cooking, crafting etc and becoming amazing at it.....and basicly constantly using every single skill available in the game so that no skill ever goes below "the best". Yeah so your going to max out ALL of those skills are you and become "better" than some other player that you cant even know anything about? Oh really? I would love to see how that works lol

2. Lower level mob spawns? Hmmm.....ok.....lets try this again shall we. I will use capital letters this time and make them a bit larger. Maybe....just maybe....you might actually read it and maybe.....just maybe.....you might actually be able to keep the knowledge in your head for longer than a goldfish can......

THERE ARE NO LEVELS IN DARKFALL

Got it now? Or have you erased it from your mind already? No levels = no lower level mob spawns.

3. Ganking happened in every PvP game ever? Name all of the mmos you can think of that were not originally designed as PvE games. Hmmm....having some difficulty there are you? Oh thats right.....its because you cant think beyond all of the PvE games you have played which had broken PvP game mechanics in them. The only game you can manage to bring up is Ultima Online. You do realise that that game is about 10 years old right? So basicly just because one game that was made 10 years ago had PvP in it and it also had ganking then every other game that ever gets made which has PvP at its core will ALWAYS be rife with ganking. Yeah brilliant thinking there! Its a good thing that not everyone thinks like you do because otherwise the human race would never have gotten past the stone age. We have managed to make giant metal birds fly in the sky. We have managed to generate artificial black holes. Some how I think making a successful PvP game with good game mechanics is quite easily within our capabilities. You do understand the concept of learning from mistakes right?

Oh and EVE is a pretty successful PvP game but then it was designed with PvP in mind.......rather like Darkfall

4. If you pick on the wrong person no big deal.......except that the intended victim ends up killing the ganker, stealing all of their stuff and subjecting them to whatever death penalties that Darkfall has......which basicly means that there was never any ganking taking place in the first place. It was simply a player fighting another player which is the point of the game anyway

You do realise dont you that the simple fact that a player does not have a guaranteed victory over any other player completely negates the whole ganking complaint right? What people refer to as ganking in other games is actually the correct way to play Darkfall. If you see another player who you think of as an enemy and wish to kill them and also think you have some kind of advantage over them then you would have to be a complete idiot to not make use of that advantage. Thats not ganking. Thats just being sensible.

5. Plenty of noobs out there trying to level. Hmmmm.....I feel it may be neccessary to insert that line of text again......

THERE ARE NO LEVELS IN DARKFALL

.....and yeah there will be plenty of noobs about. So.....care to tell me which ones they are? How do you spot the "noob" who has been given some top of the range armour and weapons by his friends? Can you tell that the guy over there wearing farmers clothes and a straw hat is actually a master swordsman with some training in spellcraft? Nahh didnt think so. People going into the game expecting to find easy pickings are going to get their arses handed to them on a plate. They will probably end up quitting and will go back to the other PvE games where ganking is possible and easy.

Please try to be civil.  When a reply to a message seems like you are trying to belittle that person it doesn't make you look smart.  You only succeed in making yourself seem immature.   It's the discussion area not the arguement and insult area. 
 

Fair point. I edited my post above. The few lines of text which came across as being insulting have been turned to grey text. Readers can feel free to ignore those words if they are over-sensitive to anything that might sound offensive. God knows how those people are going to handle the rest of this website.

Oh and by telling me that I come across as being immature you are belittliing me which doesnt make you look smart. You only succeed in making yourself seem immature. Please try to be civil.

Originally posted by neonwire

Originally posted by Craxis

Originally posted by neonwire

Originally posted by zymurgeist

Originally posted by neonwire

 

Yes experience shows that level based PvE games that had PvP added to them as an after thought opened themselves up to lots of ganking and griefing because PvP was not what the games were designed around.

Darkfall IS designed around a PvP concept and not only is it not a level based game but players also cannot see each others stats so you can never really pick an easy victim with any certainty as there is no real way to gain a massively unfair advantage that makes a player godlike in comparison to their victims. There is no "I am 20 levels higher than you so I win" scenario in Darkfall. Therefore the PvP in all the previous games like AoC, WoW, EQ etc cannot be compared to Darkfall. Fact of life.

 

Sure there is.  You grind your fotm toon's skills to the top just as you would in any level based game then you a few (dozen) of your closest friends go looking for a fight in the lower level mob spawns. Fact of life. Happened in every PvP game ever. Happened in UO, will happen in Darkfall. You don't need to see stats to know what an easy victim is. If you pick on the wrong person no big deal there's plenty of noobs out there trying to level or find crafting supplies.

 

I have highlighted the text in red where you are clearly going wrong in your line of thinking. Lots of people are making exactly the same assumptions as you are so you are not alone with this misguided way of thinking.

1. You grind your skills to the top? Which skills are you talking about? All of them? Ermmm....sorry I dont think thats actually possible as I believe skills degrade over time through lack of use. So your telling me that a player is going to be constantly using every weapon available, casting every type of spell available, constantly sneaking around, constantly firing every missile and thrown weapon, constantly wearing every type of armour available and always getting hit and learning to adapt to it, constantly running, jumping, swimming, fist fighting, fishing, cooking, crafting etc and becoming amazing at it.....and basicly constantly using every single skill available in the game so that no skill ever goes below "the best". Yeah so your going to max out ALL of those skills are you and become "better" than some other player that you cant even know anything about? Oh really? I would love to see how that works lol

2. Lower level mob spawns? Hmmm.....ok.....lets try this again shall we. I will use capital letters this time and make them a bit larger. Maybe....just maybe....you might actually read it and maybe.....just maybe.....you might actually be able to keep the knowledge in your head for longer than a goldfish can......

THERE ARE NO LEVELS IN DARKFALL

Got it now? Or have you erased it from your mind already? No levels = no lower level mob spawns.

3. Ganking happened in every PvP game ever? Name all of the mmos you can think of that were not originally designed as PvE games. Hmmm....having some difficulty there are you? Oh thats right.....its because you cant think beyond all of the PvE games you have played which had broken PvP game mechanics in them. The only game you can manage to bring up is Ultima Online. You do realise that that game is about 10 years old right? So basicly just because one game that was made 10 years ago had PvP in it and it also had ganking then every other game that ever gets made which has PvP at its core will ALWAYS be rife with ganking. Yeah brilliant thinking there! Its a good thing that not everyone thinks like you do because otherwise the human race would never have gotten past the stone age. We have managed to make giant metal birds fly in the sky. We have managed to generate artificial black holes. Some how I think making a successful PvP game with good game mechanics is quite easily within our capabilities. You do understand the concept of learning from mistakes right?

Oh and EVE is a pretty successful PvP game but then it was designed with PvP in mind.......rather like Darkfall

4. If you pick on the wrong person no big deal.......except that the intended victim ends up killing the ganker, stealing all of their stuff and subjecting them to whatever death penalties that Darkfall has......which basicly means that there was never any ganking taking place in the first place. It was simply a player fighting another player which is the point of the game anyway

You do realise dont you that the simple fact that a player does not have a guaranteed victory over any other player completely negates the whole ganking complaint right? What people refer to as ganking in other games is actually the correct way to play Darkfall. If you see another player who you think of as an enemy and wish to kill them and also think you have some kind of advantage over them then you would have to be a complete idiot to not make use of that advantage. Thats not ganking. Thats just being sensible.

5. Plenty of noobs out there trying to level. Hmmmm.....I feel it may be neccessary to insert that line of text again......

THERE ARE NO LEVELS IN DARKFALL

.....and yeah there will be plenty of noobs about. So.....care to tell me which ones they are? How do you spot the "noob" who has been given some top of the range armour and weapons by his friends? Can you tell that the guy over there wearing farmers clothes and a straw hat is actually a master swordsman with some training in spellcraft? Nahh didnt think so. People going into the game expecting to find easy pickings are going to get their arses handed to them on a plate. They will probably end up quitting and will go back to the other PvE games where ganking is possible and easy.

Please try to be civil.  When a reply to a message seems like you are trying to belittle that person it doesn't make you look smart.  You only succeed in making yourself seem immature.   It's the discussion area not the arguement and insult area. 
 

 

Fair point. I edited my post above. The few lines of text which came across as being insulting have been turned to grey text. Readers can feel free to ignore those words if they are over-sensitive to anything that might sound offensive. God knows how those people are going to handle the rest of this website.

Oh and by telling me that I come across as being immature you are belittliing me which doesnt make you look smart. You only succeed in making yourself seem immature. Please try to be civil.

I suppose you are right. I'll try to be more careful in the future.

Originally posted by Craxis

I know that items are bankable.  What is stopping a bunch of spell casters and archers from camping far away but still in range of the bank to kill people going to collect their "special items". (You wont be moving when you are retrieving your stuff.) Then have someone of good alignment to wait at the bank and loot all the corpses?  The teamate by the bank wont have to worry about dieing, and he is right next to the bank to put all the stuff away even if someone does catch on.

Heh I would probably do this to get the good items.  Especially if this were done to me a couple of times. I just think it is too simple to screw with people this way.  Its easy if you are creative.

Darkfall=Ganksquads!

Sorry but its not a carebear game if you dont like it go play something else.

Your topic is based on guessing so that deserves a lame answer:)

WoW-WAR-AoC and many others MMOs have no penalty go play those games no risk involved:)

Originally posted by Craxis

Originally posted by neonwire

Originally posted by Craxis

Originally posted by neonwire

Originally posted by zymurgeist

Originally posted by neonwire

 

Yes experience shows that level based PvE games that had PvP added to them as an after thought opened themselves up to lots of ganking and griefing because PvP was not what the games were designed around.

Darkfall IS designed around a PvP concept and not only is it not a level based game but players also cannot see each others stats so you can never really pick an easy victim with any certainty as there is no real way to gain a massively unfair advantage that makes a player godlike in comparison to their victims. There is no "I am 20 levels higher than you so I win" scenario in Darkfall. Therefore the PvP in all the previous games like AoC, WoW, EQ etc cannot be compared to Darkfall. Fact of life.

 

Sure there is.  You grind your fotm toon's skills to the top just as you would in any level based game then you a few (dozen) of your closest friends go looking for a fight in the lower level mob spawns. Fact of life. Happened in every PvP game ever. Happened in UO, will happen in Darkfall. You don't need to see stats to know what an easy victim is. If you pick on the wrong person no big deal there's plenty of noobs out there trying to level or find crafting supplies.

 

I have highlighted the text in red where you are clearly going wrong in your line of thinking. Lots of people are making exactly the same assumptions as you are so you are not alone with this misguided way of thinking.

1. You grind your skills to the top? Which skills are you talking about? All of them? Ermmm....sorry I dont think thats actually possible as I believe skills degrade over time through lack of use. So your telling me that a player is going to be constantly using every weapon available, casting every type of spell available, constantly sneaking around, constantly firing every missile and thrown weapon, constantly wearing every type of armour available and always getting hit and learning to adapt to it, constantly running, jumping, swimming, fist fighting, fishing, cooking, crafting etc and becoming amazing at it.....and basicly constantly using every single skill available in the game so that no skill ever goes below "the best". Yeah so your going to max out ALL of those skills are you and become "better" than some other player that you cant even know anything about? Oh really? I would love to see how that works lol

2. Lower level mob spawns? Hmmm.....ok.....lets try this again shall we. I will use capital letters this time and make them a bit larger. Maybe....just maybe....you might actually read it and maybe.....just maybe.....you might actually be able to keep the knowledge in your head for longer than a goldfish can......

THERE ARE NO LEVELS IN DARKFALL

Got it now? Or have you erased it from your mind already? No levels = no lower level mob spawns.

3. Ganking happened in every PvP game ever? Name all of the mmos you can think of that were not originally designed as PvE games. Hmmm....having some difficulty there are you? Oh thats right.....its because you cant think beyond all of the PvE games you have played which had broken PvP game mechanics in them. The only game you can manage to bring up is Ultima Online. You do realise that that game is about 10 years old right? So basicly just because one game that was made 10 years ago had PvP in it and it also had ganking then every other game that ever gets made which has PvP at its core will ALWAYS be rife with ganking. Yeah brilliant thinking there! Its a good thing that not everyone thinks like you do because otherwise the human race would never have gotten past the stone age. We have managed to make giant metal birds fly in the sky. We have managed to generate artificial black holes. Some how I think making a successful PvP game with good game mechanics is quite easily within our capabilities. You do understand the concept of learning from mistakes right?

Oh and EVE is a pretty successful PvP game but then it was designed with PvP in mind.......rather like Darkfall

4. If you pick on the wrong person no big deal.......except that the intended victim ends up killing the ganker, stealing all of their stuff and subjecting them to whatever death penalties that Darkfall has......which basicly means that there was never any ganking taking place in the first place. It was simply a player fighting another player which is the point of the game anyway

You do realise dont you that the simple fact that a player does not have a guaranteed victory over any other player completely negates the whole ganking complaint right? What people refer to as ganking in other games is actually the correct way to play Darkfall. If you see another player who you think of as an enemy and wish to kill them and also think you have some kind of advantage over them then you would have to be a complete idiot to not make use of that advantage. Thats not ganking. Thats just being sensible.

5. Plenty of noobs out there trying to level. Hmmmm.....I feel it may be neccessary to insert that line of text again......

THERE ARE NO LEVELS IN DARKFALL

.....and yeah there will be plenty of noobs about. So.....care to tell me which ones they are? How do you spot the "noob" who has been given some top of the range armour and weapons by his friends? Can you tell that the guy over there wearing farmers clothes and a straw hat is actually a master swordsman with some training in spellcraft? Nahh didnt think so. People going into the game expecting to find easy pickings are going to get their arses handed to them on a plate. They will probably end up quitting and will go back to the other PvE games where ganking is possible and easy.

Please try to be civil.  When a reply to a message seems like you are trying to belittle that person it doesn't make you look smart.  You only succeed in making yourself seem immature.   It's the discussion area not the arguement and insult area. 
 

 

Fair point. I edited my post above. The few lines of text which came across as being insulting have been turned to grey text. Readers can feel free to ignore those words if they are over-sensitive to anything that might sound offensive. God knows how those people are going to handle the rest of this website.

Oh and by telling me that I come across as being immature you are belittliing me which doesnt make you look smart. You only succeed in making yourself seem immature. Please try to be civil.

 

I suppose you are right. I'll try to be more careful in the future.

Why try to be careful? Its not like anyone is gonna get hurt. Just say what you think. Everyone else does. Its not like any of this matters anyway. Its just a load of people typing a load of words that describe their thoughts. Even if someone comes across as insulting it hardly matters as people are free to insult them back or take the moral high ground and insult them by being civil and polite in return. Its all just a big game

---

Originally posted by StopidFanboi
Why not leave the players handle it instead of some game mechanic? Wasn't that the whole idea of MMOs?

---

Yes. Yes, yes, yes, yes, yes.

Thank you.

Wow Cra.. lack of knowledge REALLY goes along way huh..

I guess for some the word "leveling" means only one way. Thats ok..

Ganking .. pffft just read this thread. People will pay just to gank over and over lol to get some stupid item. Yeah thsts so different then doing some instance over and over for some stupid item.  Yet ganking has nothing to do with PVP. Its just a cheat so to speak. Well you gank because you fear a 1vs1 (50\50) you might lose. So you get friends (people that cant stand to lose) and gank. Like some have said that will pass and they will soon quit.

But we need to remember that Darkfall has a limited budget so dont expect alot. Players will be able to get away with tons of things for many many months.

Originally posted by Zeblade

...

But we need to remember that Darkfall has a limited budget so dont expect alot. Players will be able to get away with tons of things for many many months.

...

And that maybe the biggest problem facing DF. Which is why I think the game needs a more open beta before final launch. Psychology just cannot be tested like software can. Of course maybe the developers have  been looking at other MMOs and there often flawed PvP. We just don't know...

Personally I am dubious but if they can pull off an entertaining PvP MMO I will be there. Though if I walk outside or am within a starting area and  *constantly* ganked.. well I may as well go play Battlefield and I am sure many others will... FFA PvP fine... but it has to have meaning and within a framework. This is going to be difficult to deliver. Of couse Eve has been doing this successfully for years it just need a fantasy MMO to pull it off.

You know what would be really nice, a newbie area where you can just choose basic weapons and get used to the fighting and movement.  Perhaps you could spawn with any low level spell or weapon you want just to have a very vague feel of each class.  I realize this is probably completely unecessary for the actual world of Agon but if they released this as a separate client that only had AI in the world that would be a neat "trial version".  Maybe even they could throw in some highly skilled AI just to show you how you as a noob would match up verse a veteran.  And before you say it, I know it will never happen.  Just thought it would be neat.

Originally posted by neonwire

 No levels = no lower level mob spawns.

Just to be irritable, there are supposedly no static mob spawns in DF as we have come to think of them from previous MMOs.

However, more to the point, I disagree. While yes, there are no levels in DF, I think levels and skill are correlated to some degree. And in that sense, of course there will be mobs with lower skills and others with much higher skills. I mean, do you really think they have designed the game that mobs just outside a starting area will have skills of 50 or 90? They would simply decimate a new character. Thus, one would logically conclude that mobs near starting areas will be easier - whether you call them lower level or lower skill, the bottom line is they will be EASIER to kill.

I don't understand why people get so caught up in the levels versus skills debate. In reality, I think the more interesting thing is that DF does not have predescribed CLASSES. Thus, you are free to train in any skill or skill path you so desire and come up with your own skill set that you think has its merits.

Originally posted by Craxis

You know what would be really nice, a newbie area where you can just choose basic weapons and get used to the fighting and movement.  Perhaps you could spawn with any low level spell or weapon you want just to have a very vague feel of each class.  I realize this is probably completely unecessary for the actual world of Agon but if they released this as a separate client that only had AI in the world that would be a neat "trial version".  Maybe even they could throw in some highly skilled AI just to show you how you as a noob would match up verse a veteran.  And before you say it, I know it will never happen.  Just thought it would be neat.

.....or you could just get a feel for different skills by....hmmm.....let me see......how about.......ermmm......playing the game perhaps?

You dont get this feature in any other mmos that I can think of so why would anyone want it in Darkfall?

Also sorry to burst your bubble but not only are there no levels in Darkfall but there are also no classes either.....so....ermmm.....basicly what you would be asking for is to have a sneak preview of what it would be like to be an extremely skilled swordsman or an extremely skilled carpenter or whatever. Well what would you expect it to be like? Each time you click your mouse button you would have a better chance of succeeding. Thats what its like. You dont need a pointless sneak preview to work that out. Oh and no it wouldnt be neat. It would be completely and utterly pointless which is why (like you said) it will never happen

Originally posted by skankyrart

Originally posted by neonwire

 No levels = no lower level mob spawns.

Just to be irritable, there are supposedly no static mob spawns in DF as we have come to think of them from previous MMOs.

However, more to the point, I disagree. While yes, there are no levels in DF, I think levels and skill are correlated to some degree. And in that sense, of course there will be mobs with lower skills and others with much higher skills. I mean, do you really think they have designed the game that mobs just outside a starting area will have skills of 50 or 90? They would simply decimate a new character. Thus, one would logically conclude that mobs near starting areas will be easier - whether you call them lower level or lower skill, the bottom line is they will be EASIER to kill.

I don't understand why people get so caught up in the levels versus skills debate. In reality, I think the more interesting thing is that DF does not have predescribed CLASSES. Thus, you are free to train in any skill or skill path you so desire and come up with your own skill set that you think has its merits.

Yeah your right there. I'm curious to know how the creatures will act in Darkfall actually. Will they only roam around a particular small area or will they travel around the game world in groups or individually? If the latter is true then it would make for a pretty varied game experience and would eliminate any daft ideas that people might have of trying to find weaker characters in particular areas.

I do know what you mean about people saying that levels and skills are different but actually they are. With a skill system its harder to precisely define how powerful someone is. Even if you were able to compare all of the skills and stats of one player with another it could still be difficult to determine who is better. Each player would be good in certain situations. A seemingly weak character might be able to overcome a seemingly strong character if a certain situation came up. A person who is a master swordsman might not be able to defeat a rich master blacksmith who has recently outfitted and paid his 10 bodyguards

Also one of the main things that seperates Darkfall from other games is the fact that you cant see anyone elses details and instead have go by what you can see.....and even that can be totally misleading. This simple feature alone negates a lot of the gank-whining arguments people keep thoughtlessly chucking about.

Originally posted by neonwire

Yeah your right there. I'm curious to know how the creatures will act in Darkfall actually. Will they only roam around a particular small area or will they travel around the game world in groups or individually? If the latter is true then it would make for a pretty varied game experience and would eliminate any daft ideas that people might have of trying to find weaker characters in particular areas.

I do know what you mean about people saying that levels and skills are different but actually they are. With a skill system its harder to precisely define how powerful someone is. Even if you were able to compare all of the skills and stats of one player with another it could still be difficult to determine who is better. Each player would be good in certain situations. A seemingly weak character might be able to overcome a seemingly strong character if a certain situation came up. A person who is a master swordsman might not be able to defeat a rich master blacksmith who has recently outfitted and paid his 10 bodyguards

Also one of the main things that seperates Darkfall from other games is the fact that you cant see anyone elses details and instead have go by what you can see.....and even that can be totally misleading. This simple feature alone negates a lot of the gank-whining arguments people keep thoughtlessly chucking about.

I agree with all you said here. One thing left to be determined is how how much gear of differing power or skill looks - it may be easier or harder to identify higher skilled opponents. But as you said, depending on the situation a blademaster may find himself wishing he had other skills at his disposal.

However, I didn't say that levels aren't different from skills - they most certainly are. However, do have some sort of correlation. And thus, it logically follows that there will be starting areas where the mobs around them will have lower skills such that new characters can kill them.

Originally posted by skankyrart

Originally posted by neonwire

Yeah your right there. I'm curious to know how the creatures will act in Darkfall actually. Will they only roam around a particular small area or will they travel around the game world in groups or individually? If the latter is true then it would make for a pretty varied game experience and would eliminate any daft ideas that people might have of trying to find weaker characters in particular areas.

I do know what you mean about people saying that levels and skills are different but actually they are. With a skill system its harder to precisely define how powerful someone is. Even if you were able to compare all of the skills and stats of one player with another it could still be difficult to determine who is better. Each player would be good in certain situations. A seemingly weak character might be able to overcome a seemingly strong character if a certain situation came up. A person who is a master swordsman might not be able to defeat a rich master blacksmith who has recently outfitted and paid his 10 bodyguards

Also one of the main things that seperates Darkfall from other games is the fact that you cant see anyone elses details and instead have go by what you can see.....and even that can be totally misleading. This simple feature alone negates a lot of the gank-whining arguments people keep thoughtlessly chucking about.

I agree with all you said here. One thing left to be determined is how how much gear of differing power or skill looks - it may be easier or harder to identify higher skilled opponents. But as you said, depending on the situation a blademaster may find himself wishing he had other skills at his disposal.

However, I didn't say that levels aren't different from skills - they most certainly are. However, do have some sort of correlation. And thus, it logically follows that there will be starting areas where the mobs around them will have lower skills such that new characters can kill them.

Actually wouldnt it be great if Darkfall says "Bollocks to the logical conclusion cos life doesnt work that way" and actually just allows its creatures to wander wherever they please? So a new player logs into the game, creates their character and enters the world of Agon. They wander around town for a bit, get used to the game, get a few supplies and some basic equipment and then set off through the city gates into the wilderness outside. An hour later as they are traveling through the hills the player sees a small speck in the sky and as it gets larger the player realises that its a dragon! Its not a scripted event and the creature hasnt been placed there like some kind of living signpost with the words "Kill me and farm me for phat loot". No this dragon is out hunting and it doesnt give a shit if one of those little creatures on the ground is weak or strong. Its all just food to the dragon.....actually stronger tastes better! So the player has to quickly find somewhere to hide or run the risk of being spotted and eaten by the dragon.

Many weak-minded players would whine about how unfair it was that they had to meet a dragon so early in the game. They would cry and complain about game balance and how everything should be tailored to give them a fair, smooth and easy ride. I on the other hand would be jumping up and down with glee. I would be saying "Oh my god my new fledgling adventurer just got eaten by a dragon. Its actually realistic because the whole point of dragons being so old and powerful is that players DONT get to kill them easily. It actually works the other way round".

Unfortunately I doubt situations like this will occur and the game will probably follow along the usual approach that nearly all games take of having certain areas designated with varying levels of toughness.......despite the fact that its completely unrealistic. Oh we cant upset the pathetic players can we oh no no.

I hope Darkfall doesnt do this and for once we actually end up getting an mmo that is truly dangerous to explore where the creatures dont give a toss about how weak or strong someone is. I'm sure many people think that a game like that would cause many players to quit in frustration but I say fuck em and make it that way anyway. I actually think a game like that would be very appealing to many people as it would be totally unique. No other game would be able to offer a similar experience. Even the players that quit would probably begin the miss the challenge and realism they once faced after they had gone back to playing the other easy & bland mmos for a while.

Originally posted by neonwire

 No levels = no lower level mob spawns.

sorry but thats total BS. ofcorse it will have mobs that are lower or higher "level" /  "strength", however you wish to think of it.

if all the mobs are the same strength then there really is no reason to have mobs an just make the game purely pvp with no pve. if a noob with no skill thats just started could kill something someone with high skill levels can then thats just stupid. you have to start somewhere.. like in uo.. you couldent go out right away an kill a dragon, had to smack a few chickens around 1st haha or a goat.. a headless one.. something.. to get your skills up enough to fight something worth while.

Originally posted by neonwire

Originally posted by Craxis

You know what would be really nice, a newbie area where you can just choose basic weapons and get used to the fighting and movement.  Perhaps you could spawn with any low level spell or weapon you want just to have a very vague feel of each class.  I realize this is probably completely unecessary for the actual world of Agon but if they released this as a separate client that only had AI in the world that would be a neat "trial version".  Maybe even they could throw in some highly skilled AI just to show you how you as a noob would match up verse a veteran.  And before you say it, I know it will never happen.  Just thought it would be neat.

 

.....or you could just get a feel for different skills by....hmmm.....let me see......how about.......ermmm......playing the game perhaps?

You dont get this feature in any other mmos that I can think of so why would anyone want it in Darkfall?

Also sorry to burst your bubble but not only are there no levels in Darkfall but there are also no classes either.....so....ermmm.....basicly what you would be asking for is to have a sneak preview of what it would be like to be an extremely skilled swordsman or an extremely skilled carpenter or whatever. Well what would you expect it to be like? Each time you click your mouse button you would have a better chance of succeeding. Thats what its like. You dont need a pointless sneak preview to work that out. Oh and no it wouldnt be neat. It would be completely and utterly pointless which is why (like you said) it will never happen

When i said low level weapon or spell. I didn't mean level of character i meant level of skill.  Why is it that as soon as someone says level people scream THERE AREN"T ANY LEVELS why not consider what is being said.  Low level SKILL like very untrained skill. And no i never said so you could see what its like to  be a highly skilled player i was saying you could see what its like to FIGHT a highly skilled player to see "how as a noob you would match up verse a veteran."  And when i said class once again you completely missed the point of CLASS OF WEAPON/ATTACK .  Try not to be so critical over word choice then i wont have to be so critical explaining why you misread what i said.

The game should allow ganking. Gank teams. Gank NATIONS. Hell if someone was persuasive enough to get a hundred players together and murder everybody on the server... it doesnt make him a ganker... it makes him a leader with a cause.

If you find a player(s) who resembles the bad guy from "The Postman" (Will Patton, 1997) you should do what Kevin Costner did... FIND (or found) YOUR OWN ARMY!

Or just continue to die... or run. All very viable options.

Reports show when a game is designed for mainly pvp theres going to be pvp. Complaining about ganking will come when Darkfall is finally released. You just have to remind people its a pvp game and not a quest grinder.

 It's a pvp game ... where 2 guilds get formed and just farm people for gear,there needs to be some sort of punishment system for continuosly killing random players or one guild will dominate the server and people will just leave.