Originally posted by Bladin

Originally posted by Ravanos

Originally posted by Bladin

how does crying over these forums really affect it?  Really his entire post is basically saying "i want a sandbox, so i will use syarcasm to insult non sandbox while promoting my favorite type"

I'm actually pro sandbox, just the QQ on these forums really kills me.

so if someone is pissed off or at least aggrivated by the direction of MMORPGs ... he shouldn't post his frustrations on a website called MMORPG.com

 

oh i know your wonderful advice is to what? wait and hope the developers pull thier heads from thier asses? or maybe the classic "hey if you don't like it go design a MMO" ... because im sure everyone just has 10-20 million a team of developers and the overall knowhow just laying around.

Yeah, but you act like this post says anything new or unique or fresh, it's just the same post recycled over and over.

I have to agree with Bladin, this is just repeated nonsense that everyone already knows.

Originally posted by Bladin

Originally posted by Ravanos

Originally posted by Bladin

how does crying over these forums really affect it?  Really his entire post is basically saying "i want a sandbox, so i will use syarcasm to insult non sandbox while promoting my favorite type"

I'm actually pro sandbox, just the QQ on these forums really kills me.

so if someone is pissed off or at least aggrivated by the direction of MMORPGs ... he shouldn't post his frustrations on a website called MMORPG.com

 

oh i know your wonderful advice is to what? wait and hope the developers pull thier heads from thier asses? or maybe the classic "hey if you don't like it go design a MMO" ... because im sure everyone just has 10-20 million a team of developers and the overall knowhow just laying around.

Yeah, but you act like this post says anything new or unique or fresh, it's just the same post recycled over and over.

welcome to the internet ... first time here?

Originally posted by xXSeraphielX

 My personal opinion is the by offering an opinion on an mmorpg site does have the potential to be seen by a developer. Just like playing a gig in a dump bar could be seen by label recruiter. The idea is that if no one says anything or not unified outcry for change happens.... they will continue to only look at the numbers and clone the game with the best potential to make money. What we need now is to show that a different type of game CAN survive.... because frankly games that are trying to be different just have not done well in the last years. (Auto Assault, Tabula Rasa) We need to show them that different ideas are good.... they just have to be well polished and thought out a little more.

Ok let's say for the sake of argument that I agree 100%. What's your plan? See the problem is, while a developer may read this thread, they are well aware that this is a fan site and is therefore skewed toward more hardcore players. As an example how may hard core PvPers are there here. I would say a lot more than in real games, or at least real games that survive and do well. A lot of the opinions posted in these forums would certainly kill a game quickly or relegate it to second tier status. That's really NOT what a developer is looking for. That's not to say that there aren't good ideas here. I think the OP had some valid complaints. However it's not obvious how to separate the good ideas from the game killers. I think this thread would be more constructive if were to focus on solutions rather than simple complaints.

/word

Good post OP

I had a really long, TLDR post here, but I'll cut it short and keep it simple.

OP seems to want an AAA mainstream-oriented MMORPG with a bunch of stuff in it that has very little mainstream appeal.  If you want to win, someone else has to lose.  If you want freeform character progression, other people will get confused and won't know what to do.  If you want expansions that add breadth to the game and not just tack more content on to the end, you want a game that's not based on levels and where most everything is crafted, not to mention the fact that everyone that's used to 'normal' MMOs will think they can't catch up and need to be re-educated.  If you want a game world you can influence, someone else isn't going to take kindly to what you're doing.

There are games out there like this, but they're not very big, they're not trying to be very big, and they mostly cater to specific audiences.  Look around at the non-AAA titles, the ones that have maintained or grown their subs over the course of a few years but haven't made lots of noise.  You might find something you like.

Also, Darkfall.  Though I'm reasonably certain it'll have a terrible launch, be forgotten about for a few years, and then, if it turns out to actually be good, end up being one of those not-huge-but-still-influential-and-talked-about games that lasts a good, long time with a smallish but stable & loyal playerbase.  Or it might implode and close after 3 months, which is why I'm buying it, at least at launch :P

Originally posted by Ghost12

ok, lets have a look at this epic wall of angst...

A thousand, thousand apologies: I seem to fail as an MMO player. I started my MMO gaming back in '99 and 2000 with the sandbox world of Asheron's Call, and then moved on to DAOC; and so forth, up to Warhammer Online. 

I am terribly sorry.

Y'know...

I actually agree with a lot of your points, but the tone of this post is horrible and really off putting.

I am a terrible MMO player.

ok, ok... enough already? Please?

I cannot play Warhammer or better yet, any other "Triple A" MMO out there. I thought I was in the right. I thought a large, open and free world would draw players to you. But I realize now, those elements are absolute insanity. So here is my list of apologies to you, the developers, and to YOU, the big men in suits.

For being unable to have fun.

Listen, how many of the sandbox MMOs out now do you actually play? ATitD 2? No, scratch that, are you helping them beta 3 inbetween angsting all over forums? How about Istaria? Supporting that much recently? Oh... how about Saga of Ryzom? Hows your game there?

Before you knock the major AAA themeparks, and believe me I have my own gripes with them,  you BETTER be putting your money where your mouth is and be playing or supporting some of the indie sandbox games already out there.

And don't give that 'but they suxx0r' line alright?

If you 'I want a Sandbox' whiners won't put your money where your mouth is and actually play the ones in existance, no matter even if they don't tick ALL your personal 'fun' boxes, then OF COURSE no serious money will go into developing new ones.

Maybe the reason you can't have 'fun' is 'cause you arnt even trying? If it isnt 2 feet in front of you and hyped to the moon most of you won't even look at it. It's tragic.

You want a game that 100% suits YOU or it's not 'fun'?

Get a grip.

- I am sorry for hating the class system. I dont want be a class, I dont want to have almost the exact same skill set as the person next to me. I am sorry for wanting to be unique. I know now, we must all be clones of each other in order to have fun.

Well, cry more.

I personally like classes.

I like the way they provide a game with a short hand for determining who does what, and what skills/ powers/ whatever they took in a maximum effort to gimp themselves.

A game where I have to have in depth build discussions with 10 people everytime I make a group is not one I would play.

When I need a healer, I want to be able to ask for a healer, not some guy saying 'oh Spirit Cure? ... No, didnt take that...'

- I am sorry for being unable to see the deep meaning in running 20 of the same games; same world; same objective; where players run in, kill each other, revive, and repeat until one "gets enough points".

This is like me going to a Need For Speed forum and complaining it has racing in it.

Despite that, I agree somewhat.

- I am sorry for wanting to have my character make a real impact on the player world.

This is another one of those points I said I agreed with, but boy you make it hard to.

- I am sorry for ... /snip...

Listen, I honestly did want to talk about your points, but your whole whiney tone has killed that. I havent the will power to carry on.

Just keep you fingers crossed that Darkfall works out, it ticks a lot of your boxes it seems.

You never know, it may be a good good game. Fingers crossed.

Great post OP.  I agree whole heartedly. 

I would love to have a more emersive and customizable experience with a challenge but until a good game company grows some balls. It ain't gonna happen. 

You can thank WoW for introducing the "Super Easy Button" that future games mold after.

Well said OP

Originally posted by Ravanos

Originally posted by Bladin

Originally posted by Ravanos

Originally posted by Bladin

how does crying over these forums really affect it?  Really his entire post is basically saying "i want a sandbox, so i will use syarcasm to insult non sandbox while promoting my favorite type"

I'm actually pro sandbox, just the QQ on these forums really kills me.

so if someone is pissed off or at least aggrivated by the direction of MMORPGs ... he shouldn't post his frustrations on a website called MMORPG.com

 

oh i know your wonderful advice is to what? wait and hope the developers pull thier heads from thier asses? or maybe the classic "hey if you don't like it go design a MMO" ... because im sure everyone just has 10-20 million a team of developers and the overall knowhow just laying around.

Yeah, but you act like this post says anything new or unique or fresh, it's just the same post recycled over and over.

 

welcome to the internet ... first time here?

Nope, that's why i'm saying quit the QQ

/stands up

/claps

/cheers

/sits back down

/cries a little...

Excellent and very sincere post! May we all be sorry... together. 

Rating: 10/10

Originally posted by twick100

Great post OP.  I agree whole heartedly. 

I would love to have a more emersive and customizable experience with a challenge but until a good game company grows some balls. It ain't gonna happen. 

You can thank WoW for introducing the "Super Easy Button" that future games mold after.

You can thank the 11 million + gamers that support WoW for the mold that future games follow.  If they didn't support WoW's "Super Easy Button", it wouldn't be the standard today.  Players have to take some responsibility for where this genre has gone.

On a side note though, I completely agree with the OP.  I'm waiting for the day I can enjoy a MMO again as much as I did AC for the 4 years that I played that game.

Originally posted by Deathstrike2

Originally posted by twick100

Great post OP.  I agree whole heartedly. 

I would love to have a more emersive and customizable experience with a challenge but until a good game company grows some balls. It ain't gonna happen. 

You can thank WoW for introducing the "Super Easy Button" that future games mold after.

 

You can thank the 11 million + gamers that support WoW for the mold that future games follow.  If they didn't support WoW's "Super Easy Button", it wouldn't be the standard today.  Players have to take some responsibility for where this genre has gone.

On a side note though, I completely agree with the OP.  I'm waiting for the day I can enjoy a MMO again as much as I did AC for the 4 years that I played that game.

If that many people are still playing it and paying for it, is there really something wrong with that standard? 

Originally posted by Deathstrike2

Originally posted by twick100

Great post OP.  I agree whole heartedly. 

I would love to have a more emersive and customizable experience with a challenge but until a good game company grows some balls. It ain't gonna happen. 

You can thank WoW for introducing the "Super Easy Button" that future games mold after.

 

You can thank the 11 million + gamers that support WoW for the mold that future games follow.  If they didn't support WoW's "Super Easy Button", it wouldn't be the standard today.  Players have to take some responsibility for where this genre has gone.

That was my point really.  Most people like everything handed to them on a silver platter nowadays.  Thus the reason companies will stick with the 'Super Easy Button".   It brings the $$$ :)

Originally posted by sanders01

Originally posted by Deathstrike2

Originally posted by twick100

Great post OP.  I agree whole heartedly. 

I would love to have a more emersive and customizable experience with a challenge but until a good game company grows some balls. It ain't gonna happen. 

You can thank WoW for introducing the "Super Easy Button" that future games mold after.

 

You can thank the 11 million + gamers that support WoW for the mold that future games follow.  If they didn't support WoW's "Super Easy Button", it wouldn't be the standard today.  Players have to take some responsibility for where this genre has gone.

On a side note though, I completely agree with the OP.  I'm waiting for the day I can enjoy a MMO again as much as I did AC for the 4 years that I played that game.

If that many people are still playing it and paying for it, is there really something wrong with that standard? 

There's nothing wrong if that standard means a well thought out & tested product which WOW is. That being said, yes there's something wrong if  WOW is the new standard of depth & complexity in MMOs. Don't get me wrong, WOW is a fine game for those new to MMO's. The problem is many of us were vets long before WOW launched.

The appetizer was tasty, now who's going to step up and provide the main course.

+1 to OP...but check out Aion...its a new AAA MMO. There are no arena's or scenario PvP's, yet there are rewards for PvP, and you lose those rewards (points when you die). The world is setup in 3 areas, 1 for each faction and 1 in the middle where the factions (and a third NPC one) compete for sieges, raid bosses, and everything else. You get XP debt when you die, and have real losses (ie: your clan is fighting for a raid boss or castle that gives you rewards, not just + points).

I think I agree with most of it, but, yeah the passive aggressive style is a bit much for me.

I think the best one was " I'm sorry for not supporting games that were released incomplete". That comment was pretty much spot on. I'm going to hope next year will be a better year. *big sigh*

Originally posted by SaintViktor

I think the best one was " I'm sorry for not supporting games that were released incomplete". That comment was pretty much spot on. I'm going to hope next year will be a better year. *big sigh*

As Peter Molyneux about it.

What does "QQ" mean?

Thanks in Advance

T

All those points are why I am playing Wurm now. No, your character doesn't look any different than anyone else (its a very low budget indy game) but you can change the world.

You heard me, change the world. Terraforming (that's changing the landscape, folks), build towns, homes and roads. Sail a ship, play on the pvp server (which is right next to the other servers, so you can go back and forth with the same character! Gasp!).

Skill-based. Yep, no classes. Be what you want. And with no real magic except priests, there's no "Hey, are you a tank, DPS or healer?" crap going on. Siege weapons! Shoot a catapult at your enemy, raid their town. Take their stuff!

You can make everything in the game, everything.

Death has a penalty, you lose some skill and ALL your items on your corpse except the noob items you started with (which isn't much). And there's no coord system or mini map to help you find you way, just like a real medieval world!

Your destiny is up to you. No linear path, no ongoing storyline to mess with your game. No quests (yes, no quests, though that may sound bad, no killing X  number of X to get X item to gear up). Oh, and no 'gearing up'. No raids except on other towns. You want Darkfall-like game? Come play Wurm.

Your character and their path is up to you, not the devs.

Its also free to try. What have you got to lose?

Originally posted by troydavid

What does "QQ" mean?

 

It means crying. I think it's supposed to be a pair of eyes with tears welling up at the bottom.

thanks.

T

Originally posted by dave6660

Originally posted by Ghost12

- I am sorry for hating the fact that in order to really "beat" or "kill" someone you either have to make them leave the area in frustration or log out.

This one made me laugh.  It's so true though,  in WAR RvR the better characters don't win in the end, the most stubborn ones do.

Yep, one of the worst parts of it all. You cant really win, you just find someone poor sot who still has work.

Originally posted by Ghost12

 

- I dont want to have almost the exact same skill set as the person next to me. I am sorry for wanting to be unique. I know now, we must all be clones of each other in order to have fun.

 

- I am sorry for disliking that my character looks exactly the same as the person next to me.

Don't you see the irony?

We are all playing clones of each other.. in an MMO that is the clone of another... (mmo).

Great post!