I know that items are bankable.  What is stopping a bunch of spell casters and archers from camping far away but still in range of the bank to kill people going to collect their "special items". (You wont be moving when you are retrieving your stuff.) Then have someone of good alignment to wait at the bank and loot all the corpses?  The teamate by the bank wont have to worry about dieing, and he is right next to the bank to put all the stuff away even if someone does catch on.

Heh I would probably do this to get the good items.  Especially if this were done to me a couple of times. I just think it is too simple to screw with people this way.  Its easy if you are creative.

The limitations or lack thereof concerning griefing in DFO is yet to be seen.   In a perfect world, NPC guards will be somewhat effective and corpse looting will be a criminal act unless the player concents or is of an opposing kin.  With everything- where there's a will, there's a way;  I'm sure there will be plenty of tweaks when the game goes open beta or live to deter them from ruining even the simplest forms of enjoyment.

The other players for starters.

Edit: Why would you want a game mechanic to stop this?

I don't know I just don't trust the whole "fugitive" system.  How would a player give consent to having his loot taken? That would be very cumbersome.  What if the body had been there awhile and some ignorant person tried to loot it? Then the npc guards would come to kill him.  I think this plan of action for ganking is hard to beat.  There is no way to prove that the person looting is even collaborating with the group of "Bank Gankers" heh I like that term.

After experiencing the open PVP gank sqauds in AoC, I definately vote for limitatioms on pvp.

One of the favorite AoC gank tactic was to wait in stealth next to a mission npc. When a player started talking to the npc the gank squad would ambush you. As you couldn't exit out of your conversation with the mission npc, you would often be dead before you could even fight back.

The myth of "good" players helping to protect the players from gankers is a bunch of bull. Its pretty rare for any player to want to spend significant time trying to help other players.

What happens instead is that the gankers thrive on spoiling the game experience of others and only end up leaving when their victims stop playing.

Originally posted by Aldwin

One of the favorite AoC gank tactic was to wait in stealth next to a mission npc. When a player started talking to the npc the gank squad would ambush you. As you couldn't exit out of your conversation with the mission npc, you would often be dead before you could even fight back.

How does comparing stealth to an open ffa game with no stealth even relevent?

Yeah ganks will exists, they will kill you and take your shit if you hang outside of towns and high traffic areas, but the darkfall world is huge, you'll be able to find a spot where you can let your guard down a bit. You can also join a guild and hunt in parties.

Someone killing you in town will be hard, every city looks to have walls, and will have players to protect you. Looting a good players corpse as a good player will be considered stealing like in UO(not a fact but I can't see them letting people get gankedi n town and looted by everyone in the area with no punishment, unless you're a murderer obviously or at war).

The gank squads will probably be a big factor for the first couple months but once server politics and the large guilds have started to claim every possible player controlled location it'll be a whole new ball game. Ganks will focus on griefing larger guilds hard work and you'll be able to go off to some corner of the world and do your thing withoutb eing bothered.

Originally posted by Aldwin

After experiencing the open PVP gank sqauds in AoC, I definately vote for limitatioms on pvp.

One of the favorite AoC gank tactic was to wait in stealth next to a mission npc. When a player started talking to the npc the gank squad would ambush you. As you couldn't exit out of your conversation with the mission npc, you would often be dead before you could even fight back.

The myth of "good" players helping to protect the players from gankers is a bunch of bull. Its pretty rare for any player to want to spend significant time trying to help other players.

What happens instead is that the gankers thrive on spoiling the game experience of others and only end up leaving when their victims stop playing.

i guess im rare

Well I only see one thing that can prevent this.  Have your clan own a town, hire about 100 npcs to gaurd it, and have each one of those gaurds Kill On Sight EVERYONE except for clan members. 

I know everyone thinks that players will prevent ganking, but they won't/don't prevent it.  They haven't prevented it before, and they never will prevent it now or in the future.  If we really want to get technical having a clan only city wont prevent it either need a I remind you of "YOU STOLE MY CLOUDSONG!"  his own clan mates killed him and took his stuff. 

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Originally posted by Aldwin
After experiencing the open PVP gank sqauds in AoC, I definately vote for limitatioms on pvp.
One of the favorite AoC gank tactic was to wait in stealth next to a mission npc. When a player started talking to the npc the gank squad would ambush you. As you couldn't exit out of your conversation with the mission npc, you would often be dead before you could even fight back.
The myth of "good" players helping to protect the players from gankers is a bunch of bull. Its pretty rare for any player to want to spend significant time trying to help other players.
What happens instead is that the gankers thrive on spoiling the game experience of others and only end up leaving when their victims stop playing.

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Ah, the good old days in the Barbarians of Ironwolf. I left them because they were too ruthless even for me. But hey, if you didn't want to get killed why were you standing still?? LOL...j/k

The difference will be #1: No 'stealth' type of invisibility.

#2: No quest giver cut scenes to prevent you from retaliating.

Sure, there will still be gank squads, but the risk vs reward situation will make it so that those squads will be after bigger fish and I doubt they will be hanging around towns.

OP: There's suppossedly guards near the major cities and if that's true, i'm sure there will be guards near banks. That's not saying that people still won't kill everyone near the banks, but it will definately make it a lot tougher to camp people in those areas.

But yeah it could happen, but there's a much larger chance of a big guild wiping out an entire city.

Originally posted by Craxis

I know that items are bankable.  What is stopping a bunch of spell casters and archers from camping far away but still in range of the bank to kill people going to collect their "special items". (You wont be moving when you are retrieving your stuff.) Then have someone of good alignment to wait at the bank and loot all the corpses?  The teamate by the bank wont have to worry about dieing, and he is right next to the bank to put all the stuff away even if someone does catch on.

Heh I would probably do this to get the good items.  Especially if this were done to me a couple of times. I just think it is too simple to screw with people this way.  Its easy if you are creative.

I believe you cannot bank if you steal loot from the corpse of another player. Also, you will not be able to run away with the loot because the guards will kill you. Furthermore, hopefully the guards will kill the entire gank squad (at least if they are low skilled, I'm not sure how many people and how high skill it would take to survive as KoS in a racial capital city). I'm not sure what will happen to all of the loot (including that of the ganked person) as supposedly all humanoids will loot gear - so the guards will just loot everything? Unfortunately that wouldn't save your gear, but I'm sure the gankers wouldn't want to lose theirs either. Additionally, they will all take hits to their faction and hopefully this will prevent them from continually doing this as eventually they will become KoS.

Will large guilds will be able to survive in capital cities? and how high skill levels would they need to do so? and how many people? I don't know. But if it can be done then they may gank people left and right and my advice is to get some people to fight against them or get out of there and go find a quieter place to rebuild your wealth.

Originally posted by Craxis

I know that items are bankable.  What is stopping a bunch of spell casters and archers from camping far away but still in range of the bank to kill people going to collect their "special items". (You wont be moving when you are retrieving your stuff.) Then have someone of good alignment to wait at the bank and loot all the corpses?  The teamate by the bank wont have to worry about dieing, and he is right next to the bank to put all the stuff away even if someone does catch on.

Heh I would probably do this to get the good items.  Especially if this were done to me a couple of times. I just think it is too simple to screw with people this way.  Its easy if you are creative.

Getting hit at the bank?

/shrug used to happen on Vallon in EQ1 all the time, especially as the main trade zone then was Gfay and I played an erudite...

My personal plan is to solo/ group PvE in the wilds to skill up, craft some, and then hang around outside PK towns and wait for those guys to come home to bank. They will be loaded hopefully, and better I take it then let another PK hit them for it before they get 100ft into town.

Thats one of the things that makes me laff about DF... PKs seem to think it will be all them in their red towns vs the 'carebears' in their blue towns, but they don't seem to get that it will be PK vs PK as well. There will be no brotherhood of PKs, no inherent understanding, and I can't wait till they start to feed on each other :D

Originally posted by vesavius

Originally posted by Craxis

I know that items are bankable.  What is stopping a bunch of spell casters and archers from camping far away but still in range of the bank to kill people going to collect their "special items". (You wont be moving when you are retrieving your stuff.) Then have someone of good alignment to wait at the bank and loot all the corpses?  The teamate by the bank wont have to worry about dieing, and he is right next to the bank to put all the stuff away even if someone does catch on.

Heh I would probably do this to get the good items.  Especially if this were done to me a couple of times. I just think it is too simple to screw with people this way.  Its easy if you are creative.

 

Getting hit at the bank?

/shrug used to happen on Vallon in EQ1 all the time, especially as the main trade zone then was Gfay and I played an erudite...

My personal plan is to solo/ group PvE in the wilds to skill up, craft some, and then hang around outside PK towns and wait for those guys to come home to bank. They will be loaded hopefully, and better I take it then let another PK hit them for it before they get 100ft into town.

Thats one of the things that makes me laff about DF... PKs seem to think it will be all them in their red towns vs the 'carebears' in their blue towns, but they don't seem to get that it will be PK vs PK as well. There will be no brotherhood of PKs, no inherent understanding, and I can't wait till they start to feed on each other :D

 

amen...true community game at work :)

there will be alot of ganking at first because ya can....then people will ge serious and alot of the ganking will die down....it will never completely lie down thats what will make the game exciting

Originally posted by Craxis

I know that items are bankable.  What is stopping a bunch of spell casters and archers from camping far away but still in range of the bank to kill people going to collect their "special items". (You wont be moving when you are retrieving your stuff.) Then have someone of good alignment to wait at the bank and loot all the corpses?  The teamate by the bank wont have to worry about dieing, and he is right next to the bank to put all the stuff away even if someone does catch on.

Heh I would probably do this to get the good items.  Especially if this were done to me a couple of times. I just think it is too simple to screw with people this way.  Its easy if you are creative.

Then you find a creative way to deal with the situation. You can do anything anyone else can do. Thats the beauty about a FFA PvP game with no restrictions. You can be creative and do anything you like.

Oh and is there ever going to be a point when people finally stop comparing the FFA PvP in this game to PvP experiences in previous level based games (AoC, WoW, EQ etc) as its bloody obvious that it really isnt even remotely similar.

Originally posted by neonwire

Oh and is there ever going to be a point when people finally stop comparing the FFA PvP in this game to PvP experiences in previous level based games (AoC, WoW, EQ etc) as its bloody obvious that it really isnt even remotely similar.

Level based or not has nothing to do with it. What experience shows is ganking happens in  every game with PvP. Fact of life.

Originally posted by Craxis

I know that items are bankable.  What is stopping a bunch of spell casters and archers from camping far away but still in range of the bank to kill people going to collect their "special items". (You wont be moving when you are retrieving your stuff.) Then have someone of good alignment to wait at the bank and loot all the corpses?  The teamate by the bank wont have to worry about dieing, and he is right next to the bank to put all the stuff away even if someone does catch on.

Heh I would probably do this to get the good items.  Especially if this were done to me a couple of times. I just think it is too simple to screw with people this way.  Its easy if you are creative.

 Don't worry I'm sure the AI bots and limited number of paid proffesional beta testers have already tested this out and come up with a counter. Ask almost any of the fans, DF doesn't need a large closed beta, or any open beta at all. As Tasos says its feature complete and more ready for release then almost any other MMO ever (and that was last month so by now its even more ready/complete ).

  Less then a month to launch and we can all see for ourselves.

gank the gankers.   Atleast they cant hind behind zone portals and such. That was annoying in DAOC PVP servers. Camping load points is pretty meh. Ganking squads will not be a huge issue unless you play solo a lot is what i am thinking.

Originally posted by Aldwin

After experiencing the open PVP gank sqauds in AoC, I definately vote for limitatioms on pvp.

Haha, if you complain about the carebare pvp in AoC, I definately vote that you play Hello Kitty.

I guess like some others here that the first months will be filled with griefing and ganking. The reason is simply that many  haven`t had a posibility to do it for years. It will slow down after a while though.

If a group of newbie humans deside to attack the newbie orks, is that ganking or faction war?

Everyone on the f*$^"! floor... this is a robbery !

Some times that is the best times when you are with friends and a gank group comes to take you down. You might loose but you get that, surprise and suspense followed by the, look how many we took down before we all died experience.

I see this game being like grand theft auto.  You trade with someone and get their stuff then when they turn around KILL THEM and get your stuff back. And you have to trade with them first because they will have gotten the stuff you want out of the bank.   If you need a mount just go up to the nearest guy on a mount and knock him off and ride off with it.  If you head into a place where the enemy gang hangs out, they open fire for no reason. 

Originally posted by zymurgeist

Originally posted by neonwire

Oh and is there ever going to be a point when people finally stop comparing the FFA PvP in this game to PvP experiences in previous level based games (AoC, WoW, EQ etc) as its bloody obvious that it really isnt even remotely similar.

 

Level based or not has nothing to do with it. What experience shows is ganking happens in  every game with PvP. Fact of life.

Yes experience shows that level based PvE games that had PvP added to them as an after thought opened themselves up to lots of ganking and griefing because PvP was not what the games were designed around.

Darkfall IS designed around a PvP concept and not only is it not a level based game but players also cannot see each others stats so you can never really pick an easy victim with any certainty as there is no real way to gain a massively unfair advantage that makes a player godlike in comparison to their victims. There is no "I am 20 levels higher than you so I win" scenario in Darkfall. Therefore the PvP in all the previous games like AoC, WoW, EQ etc cannot be compared to Darkfall. Fact of life.

Originally posted by neonwire

Originally posted by zymurgeist

Originally posted by neonwire

Oh and is there ever going to be a point when people finally stop comparing the FFA PvP in this game to PvP experiences in previous level based games (AoC, WoW, EQ etc) as its bloody obvious that it really isnt even remotely similar.

 

Level based or not has nothing to do with it. What experience shows is ganking happens in  every game with PvP. Fact of life.

 

Yes experience shows that level based PvE games that had PvP added to them as an after thought opened themselves up to lots of ganking and griefing because PvP was not what the games were designed around.

Darkfall IS designed around a PvP concept and not only is it not a level based game but players also cannot see each others stats so you can never really pick an easy victim with any certainty as there is no real way to gain a massively unfair advantage that makes a player godlike in comparison to their victims. There is no "I am 20 levels higher than you so I win" scenario in Darkfall. Therefore the PvP in all the previous games like AoC, WoW, EQ etc cannot be compared to Darkfall. Fact of life.

FINALLY a good point! That's right its almost impossible to size people up. Atleast with that point you have some certaintly.  I mean relying on AI to protect you is... stupid.  People wont worry about the faction hit either. 

Originally posted by neonwire

 

Yes experience shows that level based PvE games that had PvP added to them as an after thought opened themselves up to lots of ganking and griefing because PvP was not what the games were designed around.

Darkfall IS designed around a PvP concept and not only is it not a level based game but players also cannot see each others stats so you can never really pick an easy victim with any certainty as there is no real way to gain a massively unfair advantage that makes a player godlike in comparison to their victims. There is no "I am 20 levels higher than you so I win" scenario in Darkfall. Therefore the PvP in all the previous games like AoC, WoW, EQ etc cannot be compared to Darkfall. Fact of life.

Sure there is.  You grind your fotm toon's skills to the top just as you would in any level based game then you a few (dozen) of your closest friends go looking for a fight in the lower level mob spawns. Fact of life. Happened in every PvP game ever. Happened in UO, will happen in Darkfall. You don't need to see stats to know what an easy victim is. If you pick on the wrong person no big deal there's plenty of noobs out there trying to level or find crafting supplies.

I think there will be  grps that run around and try to play knights in  shinning armor to protect the weak and somewhat innocent. I played a lil AC and a  lot of AC2 on the PVP servers and there were grps just like this that claimed a town and protected anyone in it. They roleplayed their part as hero and defended anyone that they seen in danger from goons. One was in AC2 named Cherish or something like that. Her guild did just this and it was pretty cool listening to them talk and play their part in the game. There will be grps that get their PVP only from defending or helping others against the gank guilds. If the game is succesful they will be there.