Originally posted by Ichijo

Originally posted by Cynthe

Also this thread is in poor taste, I can understand feelings of justification after having been disapointed but bear in mind that Tabula's failure is also due to player bad press and not enough of us subbing. So while we would like to say I told you so, we are also partly responsible.

:(

 

What a sophomoric comment.

Your comment is as bad as Garriott trying to blame the beta testers for the game's failure.

Tabula Rasa failed because the Garriotts were too busy hosting pajama parties instead of spending the money they ripped off from NCSoft on making a decent video game.

Tabula Rasa failed because it was an empty shell, built on the Auto Assault engine, quickly thrown together when the NCSoft stockholders finally tightened the noose around that pair of pansies necks.

The only players that hold any responsibility for that piece of trash are the ones that were blowing smoke up the devs posteriors as opposed to telling them the truth.

 

 

Well the game IS fun. Just because garrot is a ass and dident do his job is no reason to Blame the game.

Originally posted by Ekibiogami

Originally posted by Ichijo

Originally posted by Cynthe

Also this thread is in poor taste, I can understand feelings of justification after having been disapointed but bear in mind that Tabula's failure is also due to player bad press and not enough of us subbing. So while we would like to say I told you so, we are also partly responsible.

:(

 

What a sophomoric comment.

Your comment is as bad as Garriott trying to blame the beta testers for the game's failure.

Tabula Rasa failed because the Garriotts were too busy hosting pajama parties instead of spending the money they ripped off from NCSoft on making a decent video game.

Tabula Rasa failed because it was an empty shell, built on the Auto Assault engine, quickly thrown together when the NCSoft stockholders finally tightened the noose around that pair of pansies necks.

The only players that hold any responsibility for that piece of trash are the ones that were blowing smoke up the devs posteriors as opposed to telling them the truth.

 

 

 

Well the game IS fun. Just because garrot is a ass and dident do his job is no reason to Blame the game.

The game is fun, but not for long. There is a good reason so few have stayed.

Originally posted by Aildrik

I think producing a really high quality sci-fi MMO will require stepping out of the paradigm used in current fantasy MMO (which goes all the way back to text-based MUDs like Circle and Diku MUD).  I truly believe this is why Blizzard, for example, has not done anything yet with a Starcraft MMO. 

You may have a point.  Blizzard I beleive is also reluctant to engage due to the Sci-fi "curse" that seems to plague the MMO genre.  However, if anyone is to do it (and has the capital investment to do so), it's Blizzard. 

I think all new sci-fi MMOs should take a page out of the CCP EVE Online book.  Start small with limited content.  As the buzz and interest builds up, then expand.  Take it slow, guage your market and then start piling on the invesment dollars after a year or more IF the consumer dollars are rolling in, and not before. 

People play MMOs for the "take me away" fantasy they provide, and well, nothing does that better than a "fantasy" MMO, however I do beleive there is an audience for the sci-fi market, it's just alot smaller. 

Originally posted by Cynthe

Also this thread is in poor taste, I can understand feelings of justification after having been disapointed but bear in mind that Tabula's failure is also due to player bad press and not enough of us subbing. So while we would like to say I told you so, we are also partly responsible.

:(

The people that told the truth about the game (aka the "Negativity" crew) were the ones that loved the game and wanted it to succeed.  If there is any portion  of theplayer base to blame for the failure of TR its the fanbois that didnt want the game to grow and be competitive.  At the end of the day its about incoming dollars to offset tremendous expense.  TR couldnt keep enough of us around to keep up a healthy income stream. 

If you want to place blame on the player base please go to planettr and lay the blame there...where it belongs. 

Originally posted by Ichijo

For all those that told us in the closed beta to "go away, TR doesn't need your negativity".

For all those that told us the end game was "coming".

For all those that cried to that ugly little troll CJ until we got banned,

The title of this post is for you.

 

For those of us that stood up and told them what a crappy single player console game Tabula Rasa is, and how we tried to make them listen to reason so that the game could have been a success, I salute you and may you persevere in your quest to avoid such banal mediocrity (Tabula Rasa) that ends in nothing but over blown hype and huge disappointment.

 

To NCSoft, WTF were you thinking ?

Here's hoping you learned something from this and can get back on track.

 

To Richard Garriott, you and your brother are thieves and it is my sincere hope that you NEVER get another dollar from a foolish producer that expects you to do something worthwhile after the disgusting disaster you have made out of Tabula Rasa.

Goodbye and good riddance, Richard Garriott, go back to being the pajama party queen because the video game industry can't survive any more divas like you.

And goodbye Tabula Rasa, I'm not sorry to see you go.

 

 

Agree 100%.  We were called "trolls" and "haters" by the rabid fanbois playerbase.  I saw this train-wreck coming miles away.  Goodbye TR, it wasn't a pleasure to meet you.

So you are basicly saying you are happy and vindicated that this game is shutting down.

So you are happy and vindicated that investors will insist even more that every new mmo clone all the same regurgitated BS so they don't waste money?

Or I missed something...

Because you know what.. investors don't read this forum, this doesn't make them happy or feel vindicated.  What they see is that TR didn't exactly clone EQ or WoW and failed.

If you were in closed beta and thought the game sucked.. then at least you didn't have to waste 50 dollars on it.  So I'm not really sure why you would feel vindicated...

Personally I thought the game had a solid foundation but kinda lacked.. a game.  It doesn't make me happy that it shut down or vindicated.

Obviously RG cared more about going into space than trying to save the game with his name on it.  That should have been a hint to anyone in doubt about the games future.. but still your tone is a bit odd.. unless you like the idea of more ... cloned MMO's.

Originally posted by Antarious

So you are basicly saying you are happy and vindicated that this game is shutting down.

So you are happy and vindicated that investors will insist even more that every new mmo clone all the same regurgitated BS so they don't waste money?

Or I missed something...

Because you know what.. investors don't read this forum, this doesn't make them happy or feel vindicated.  What they see is that TR didn't exactly clone EQ or WoW and failed.

If you were in closed beta and thought the game sucked.. then at least you didn't have to waste 50 dollars on it.  So I'm not really sure why you would feel vindicated...

Personally I thought the game had a solid foundation but kinda lacked.. a game.  It doesn't make me happy that it shut down or vindicated.

Obviously RG cared more about going into space than trying to save the game with his name on it.  That should have been a hint to anyone in doubt about the games future.. but still your tone is a bit odd.. unless you like the idea of more ... cloned MMO's.

Some of us out there really wanted TR to be a good game and we were counting on a big name like Garriott to make that happen.

When the doors opened up to people in the closed beta those that weren't drawing their lifeforce from being fanbois to the devs were asking solid questions like "where is the end game ?" only to be rebuffed by the Garriott worshippers and that disgusting little troll CJ.

Some of us, many of whom used to be strong NCSoft supporters, begged them to rethink what they were doing and hold off on an open beta...

Most of us got banned for trying to convince the devs that it was just too empty and that it was destined to fail if they brought it out as-is.

But the underlying truth was that it was too late because Garriott had blown all the money and NCSoft finally pulled the plug forcing them to release a half assed video game that some of us had waited YEARS to see come to fruition.

In closing I did my ultimate to convince the people that mattered they were making a titanic mistake and I got kicked in the balls for my efforts, my vindication comes in that I was correct and they have gotten what they deserved which is a miserably failed product and enough egg on their faces that they will be scraping it off for years.

The only thing that would make it sweeter for me is if NCSoft found some way to sue the crap out of the Garriott brothers and bankrupt their sorry asses.

I was interested in Tabula Rasa because it was a bit different.  However, the way we were treated by the fanbois was absurd.  The OP is quite correct in that the game offered NO end game.  There was no point to it.  We all saw it coming.

Still the label "troll" and "hater" was tossed around as it always is when a new game is being released.

I am not happy this game is shutting down.  I would have liked to have seen a much better version of this game on a live server.  This was utter crap and the mere fact they charged a subscription was mindboggling, even worse some people actually paid it. 

I feel more vindication towards the fanbois of this game that refused to see the negative potential these problems carried with them.  I am so sick of fanbois.  I'll happily hang out with a troll any day of the week over a fanboi.

 
Because you know what.. investors don't read this forum, this doesn't make them happy or feel vindicated.

You might be surprised what investors read.   But they are not happy, they've lost big.  Did you know that Lehman Brothers (now bankrupt) was a big investor in NcSoft because of the hyped prospects of TR?  Not that TR had much to do with the  failure of Lehman, but it sure didn't help.   And the closing of TR has dealt a harsh blow to game business in general to the city of Austin.

These days, we're all investors whether we hold stock or not.  Underperforming CEOs who run their company into the ground and make off with huge loot are all over the news.  Stockholders, employees and gamers get to lose money. 

This comes from another poster in another blog: the suggestion that "Lord British" be changed to "Lord Selfish."  

Originally posted by Ichijo

Some of us, many of whom used to be strong NCSoft supporters, begged them to rethink what they were doing and hold off on an open beta... 

I'm still a strong NCSoft supporter.  They take chances in an effort to find niche MMORPG markets (CoX is a perfect example).  But Destination Games, the TR developers, have let NCSoft and all of us down.  I could tell months before the game went live--I was in closed beta for over 4 months--that DG just didn't have the talent to pull it off.  They are the real failures in all this.

Originally posted by indiramourn

Originally posted by Ichijo

Some of us, many of whom used to be strong NCSoft supporters, begged them to rethink what they were doing and hold off on an open beta... 

I'm still a strong NCSoft supporter.  They take chances in an effort to find niche MMORPG markets (CoX is a perfect example).  But Destination Games, the TR developers, have let NCSoft and all of us down.  I could tell months before the game went live--I was in closed beta for over 4 months--that DG just didn't have the talent to pull it off.  They are the real failures in all this.

I used to be a BIG NCsoft supporter, I was in the closed betas for Lineage 2 Taiwan and North America as well as for CoH and Auto Assault (got invited to CoV closed beta but didn't have time).

NCsoft North America started a downhill slide a few years ago thanks to the Garriott brothers and I finally reached the end of my rope with the way we got treated in the TR beta so I am done with them.

Frankly, NCsoft North America has nothing left to offer in the gaming market outside of the CoX franchise so unless they come up with some miraculously enjoyable game they can fall off the map completely and I won't miss them a bit.

 to:  Daffid011

However none of that makes any sense at all. I doubt the Garriots just thought one day they would change years of their hard work and passion and scrap it all to make a alien shooter game. 

In the early stages, Jake Song was part of the development team.  Then there was a Big Ego dustup and Song left NcSoft.  Song was behind the first Lineage game--for a long time the single biggest success in online gaming and the maker of NcSoft's fortune.

I challenge your notion that there was much, if any,  hard work, talent or passion to begin with.  If you had lived in Austin and read the papers, RG was always prancing around in  costumes, riding Russian migs and submarines, partying and just generally showing off how rich and silly he was.  He'd get a story in the paper...and would never mention Tabula Rasa and was hard-pressed to even mention NcSoft.   He wandered around accepting prizes for being this big genius and didn't publicize his company or his game.   NcSoft was the cash cow for the Garriott lifestyle.

Most likely someone with a market analysis spread sheet came to the conclusion that Tabula Rasa was not going to be a good dollar investment in the market with such stiff competition already there and more coming in the pipeline.

Always blame the suits and the investors...so, are you aware that Robert Garriott was not only CEO in Austin, but was a member of the larger NcSoft board of directors in Seoul with a big chunk of stock?    As far as I know, he still is on the board.  As of the last yearly report, he was.  So what management do you want to blame that will let the Garriotts off the hook?

I would not refer to EA buying any company and pushing the talent out the door as any sort of victory, ever. That has been a major problem with EA for a long time now. The losses they cut are a result of them buying and squashing successful game companies. Not the other way around.

Those who love games have this mythology that management is always getting in the way of success, and is somehow ruthlessly denying the Noble Genius the freedom to succeed.  But without risking money, no games get built.   There is no instance in gaming history that a developer has been given more money, time or freedom to build a great game than NcSoft's relationship with the Garriotts.

In return, NcSoft have been given the single biggest , most expensive video game flop in history.

I repeat that Electronic Arts has been vindicated here.  They tried to get Richard to develop UO2, and gave up on him.  Electronic Arts even stated in an interview with Salon.com some years back that they let him go because they could not get him to focus on work.

Originally posted by kinglee

 

In the early stages, Jake Song was part of the development team.  Then there was a Big Ego dustup and Song left NcSoft.  Song was behind the first Lineage game--for a long time the single biggest success in online gaming and the maker of NcSoft's fortune.

 

That's not quite right, bro, Jake Song lives in Korea he wasn't part of the dev team for TR.

What happened was that Song heard about the HUGE amount of money and stock options that Kim Taek-jin (NCsoft CEO) had given to the Garriotts just to get them to come on board with NCSoft North America and he got so pissed that he walked out.

They lost a tremendous asset in Jake Song and all they got in return for that loss was a pair of fruits that tore the guts out of NCsoft in the North American gaming market and left them looking like fools.

 to Ichijo--

Song was briefly in Austin in the early stages.  I think he caught on early that not much in the way of real work was going on, but NcSoft sided with the Garriotts against their star  and veteran producer.

I'd love to hear from Jake Song himself now that TR is getting shut down!  Some reporter ought to get that story.

Originally posted by Ichijo

Frankly, NCsoft North America has nothing left to offer in the gaming market outside of the CoX franchise so unless they come up with some miraculously enjoyable game they can fall off the map completely and I won't miss them a bit.

 

Indeed, I still support their "Give developers with original niche MMORPG ideas a chance" philosphy.  But, yeah, except for CoX I'm not interested in any of their other game offerings at all.
 

Originally posted by Ichijo

Some of us out there really wanted TR to be a good game and we were counting on a big name like Garriott to make that happen.

When the doors opened up to people in the closed beta those that weren't drawing their lifeforce from being fanbois to the devs were asking solid questions like "where is the end game ?" only to be rebuffed by the Garriott worshippers and that disgusting little troll CJ.

Some of us, many of whom used to be strong NCSoft supporters, begged them to rethink what they were doing and hold off on an open beta...

Most of us got banned for trying to convince the devs that it was just too empty and that it was destined to fail if they brought it out as-is.

But the underlying truth was that it was too late because Garriott had blown all the money and NCSoft finally pulled the plug forcing them to release a half assed video game that some of us had waited YEARS to see come to fruition.

In closing I did my ultimate to convince the people that mattered they were making a titanic mistake and I got kicked in the balls for my efforts, my vindication comes in that I was correct and they have gotten what they deserved which is a miserably failed product and enough egg on their faces that they will be scraping it off for years.

The only thing that would make it sweeter for me is if NCSoft found some way to sue the crap out of the Garriott brothers and bankrupt their sorry asses.

 

I wish I knew what happened with Garriott.   Some of my best gaming memories were back from the 90's when Origin was a powerhouse game developer.  At the time, it didn't get much better than Wing Commander, Ultima 7 and Ultima Underworld.  Even Ultima Online was an intense experience for the time, and to this day has the best ingame housing of any MMO I have played.

However, Garriott definitely has a spotty record when you consider how long it took Ultima X to come to market.  It is a real pity because the Ultima Franchise could have been a powerhouse, but it seems destined to fade into history as Ultima Online is basically the final product in that franchise.

Perhaps Garriott's newfound interest in space travel will mark his exit from the gaming industry?

Originally posted by Aildrik

Perhaps Garriott's newfound interest in space travel will mark his exit from the gaming industry?

 

I hope it marks his exit from the solar system.

Originally posted by Ichijo

Originally posted by Aildrik

Perhaps Garriott's newfound interest in space travel will mark his exit from the gaming industry?

 

 

I hope it marks his exit from the solar system.

 

 

Be lucky if he reached Mars. Especially if he builds spacecraft like he did TR.

Originally posted by Ichijo

Originally posted by Cynthe

Also this thread is in poor taste, I can understand feelings of justification after having been disapointed but bear in mind that Tabula's failure is also due to player bad press and not enough of us subbing. So while we would like to say I told you so, we are also partly responsible.

:(

 

What a sophomoric comment.

Your comment is as bad as Garriott trying to blame the beta testers for the game's failure.

Tabula Rasa failed because the Garriotts were too busy hosting pajama parties instead of spending the money they ripped off from NCSoft on making a decent video game.

Tabula Rasa failed because it was an empty shell, built on the Auto Assault engine, quickly thrown together when the NCSoft stockholders finally tightened the noose around that pair of pansies necks.

The only players that hold any responsibility for that piece of trash are the ones that were blowing smoke up the devs posteriors as opposed to telling them the truth.

 

 

This!

Richard Garriott was a disgrace! Or did people even forgot that he tried to pour out some millions from NcSoft to fund his Space Expedition??

Luckily Kim woke up just in time to prevent that from happening!

Richard Garriott has been spending NcSoft money on private snob parties at his mansion like crazy! All wasted time he should have spend on the game directing his development team!

Richard Garriott was never interested in delivering a good game. Simply because his mind wasn't set to it! He had only one focus and one only! And that was getting his ass into Space!

I have been in Beta for a long time and seen more then you think. So I totally feel the OP's sentiments.

Tabula Rasa had everything. Every bit of potential to be THE Sci-Fi MMO of todate!

But because of Richard Garriott this game never got a chance it deserved!

Where was Richard Garriott the moment TR launched and he panically put that big letter full of promisses together with his Producer??

The moment TR launched Richard Garriott was off to get the money together for his Space Expedition and left the TR Dev team rot away in the office!

He was crying like a little baby, because NcSoft CEO Kim woke up in time to see the Garriott's scam and didn't pay for Richard's Space expedition!

So Garriott now had to rake in money for himself to fund it.

That alone proves more then enough in how NOT serious Richard Garriott was with NcSoft and the game itself. He never really give a toss about the game at all!

Not to mention in how he got his brother to become CEO of NcSoft in the US!

So in the end there are two (well three to add Garriotts brother to it) persons to blame really:

1. Kim, CEO of NcSoft, to be a total blind ass for not seeing how the Garriott brothers were screwing him over.

2. The Garriott brothers with a hidden "Space" agenda.

Cheers

 The moment TR launched Richard Garriott was off to get the money together for his Space Expedition and left the TR Dev team rot away in the office!

You can go back and search up stories in Summer and Fall of 2007 in the Korea Times, written by the reporter Cho jin-seo, that give the facts to the story.  This is the same reporter and newspaper that David Swofford and Robert Garriott insulted grievously, only to have the facts that the newspaper reported turn out to be true.  This reporter was the only one in the whole gaming industry to check the corporate filings which were available to the public, online.

More vindication.  That same reporter was insulted here and on other blogs by toadying fanbois from PlanetTR.

If you follow the timing of the stories, you'll see that Lord Greedy  almost had Kim ready to sign his check into space as an ad for NcSoft.   The executives had been wined and dined in Austin, dazzled by the toadying fanboi Austin media, and given rides on the Vomit Comet. But the story broke in the news too soon for comfort.  And the Korean public was already excited about their own astronaut that the Korean government was sending up.  That NcSoft, a Korean company, would pay for an American to fly offended a lot of Koreans.  The executives backed off and denied that they were intending to pay Richard's way.

They were saved another $30 Million down the Garriott rat hole by a reporter at the Korea Times.  It is clear now that his trip into space, despite the pathetic Operation Immortality, gained no sales or attention for the game.

Looks like NCSoft is facing some possible legal trouble:

www.g4tv.com/thefeed/blog/post/692073/NCsoft_Getting_Sued_Over_MMO_Patent.html

Originally posted by kinglee

 The moment TR launched Richard Garriott was off to get the money together for his Space Expedition and left the TR Dev team rot away in the office!

You can go back and search up stories in Summer and Fall of 2007 in the Korea Times, written by the reporter Cho jin-seo, that give the facts to the story.  This is the same reporter and newspaper that David Swofford and Robert Garriott insulted grievously, only to have the facts that the newspaper reported turn out to be true.  This reporter was the only one in the whole gaming industry to check the corporate filings which were available to the public, online.

More vindication.  That same reporter was insulted here and on other blogs by toadying fanbois from PlanetTR.

If you follow the timing of the stories, you'll see that Lord Greedy  almost had Kim ready to sign his check into space as an ad for NcSoft.   The executives had been wined and dined in Austin, dazzled by the toadying fanboi Austin media, and given rides on the Vomit Comet. But the story broke in the news too soon for comfort.  And the Korean public was already excited about their own astronaut that the Korean government was sending up.  That NcSoft, a Korean company, would pay for an American to fly offended a lot of Koreans.  The executives backed off and denied that they were intending to pay Richard's way.

They were saved another $30 Million down the Garriott rat hole by a reporter at the Korea Times.  It is clear now that his trip into space, despite the pathetic Operation Immortality, gained no sales or attention for the game.

 

 

 

 

 

Wow..just wow.  Thanks for this.  I remember when some reporter was being bashed for an article about TR was this the same thing?  This entire game is beginning to sound like a hoax to get RG in space.  And I thought Dark & Light  took the cake on scams. 

 Looks like NCSoft is facing some possible legal trouble:

www.g4tv.com/thefeed/blog/post/692073/NCsoft_Getting_Sued_Over_MMO_Patent.html

I read about this.  I think those bringing this lawsuit are going after the easiest target to get started.  Pretty unfair, but it looks like they're trying to play off prejudice against foreigners because NcSoft is Korea-owned.  They're going to bring the case in a lawsuit-happy county of Texas.  Then if they can win against NcSoft, it'll give them momentum to go after giant Blizzard.

Looks, at first  glance, like patent-trolling.

  I remember when some reporter was being bashed for an article about TR was this the same thing?

Almost positive it was, because you don't find anyone in the US gaming press that ever takes a close or negative look at what he's been doing over the past seven years.  It's amazing how they won't even look at NcSoft financial statements at their website.  

If you check out places like Escapist, for instance, you can't describe their coverage of Garriott as anything but toadying.   They always talk about how "generous" Lord B is with them.  Yah, I'll bet!

It's that way in Austin media, too.  You'd think after NcSoft is pulling the real meat out of Austin and going to Seattle, and the layoffs, but they still toady.

I never game this game a try until they announced it as being free until February 09.... I think that's the model they should have gone with long ago, free to play with micro transactions and paid new chapters IE Guild Wars.... What I've experienced of the game thus far has been okay, not great, but not horrible, kind of like my experience with Hellgate London, which I will likely miss a little bit more than this game.