There was so much hype about War in the months leading up to it...heck they had well over a million people apply for beta from what I understand.......It sounds like they really thought they would compete with WoW, at least in EU/NA........The game isnt a flop but didnt meet unreal expectations either........

yeah WAR is like a chicken nugget, no matter how u look at it, its still a chicken nugget

While WAR maybe second to way it still hold it ground nicly. For a new game it very well made. Sure it not perfect or new finish. The game if fun and I would have to say not a flop. There are many thing the game needs but at less we have 22 class now.  While the Knight of the blazing sun need a massive nerf.  

Originally posted by Alandora

Originally posted by snowchrome2

Originally posted by Alandora

Originally posted by BattleFelon

I keep hearing from fans of a certain other game cough WOW cough that WAR is a total flop and financial disaster.  This post is not to start a fanboi flamefest, but only to point out that WAR actually did very well in total box sales - .1.2 million and had 800,000 subscribers in the month after launch.

http://www.gamespot.com/news/6200329.html?tag=latestheadlines;title;1

Now, I recognize that WAR may not have 800K today, I think part of that is they launched at the same time as Blizzard's latest big release. I have nothing against Blizzard, but let's face it - they are the top name in PC Gaming. If you compare WAR sales to other AAA PC titles, it's actually been a major success. And the estimated 600K current subscribers makes it one of the biggest MMOGs behind WOW in North America/Europe. That means WAR is far from an "epic fail" or a "dying game."

Personally, I think if Mythic can keep improving the game as quickly as they are doing, subs will surpass 1 million as people get burned out on WOTLK.

 

I don't think box sales really determines a flop or not (for mmorpgs).   Developers only get about 20% of the proceeds of box sales.   So Warhammer cost about 40M to make, and they got back about 8M from box sales.   Maintaining subscribers is what makes money.

I'm not sure where Warhammer will come out.  It's clear that they lost over half of that 800k so far.  They have merged well over half their servers and a large portion of the 'destination' servers are still very inactive.  Warhammer has also fallen off the sales charts, so don't expect an influx of new players any time soon.

I think it fits in well with the Eve, Lotro, EQ2 area of the chart.   But I do think Warhammer is in a much more precarious situation from those games because it is almost purely based on endgame pvp that requires a large amount of players to make it fun.  The 'fun-factor' of Warhammer drops off quickly as populations drop.

and where did you get your facts from?
 

 

Which facts are you questioning?

It's a pretty much 'industry' norm that retail boxes pass on between 15-20% to the developer.  You can look at Funcoms, Blizzards are a variaty of other gaming companies to see this number come up over and over.   It's usually 15% in EU and 20% in the US... the overall average depends on where the sales come from.

Xfire is down 75%.    60% of servers have been 'abandoned'.     Stating a 50% loss in max populations is a reasonable guess.   Read the Vault forums, just today there was a nice thread of people talking about thier 'destination' servers being very low pop now.

instead of you guessing and pulling pencentages out of your anus and only using a small pool of  players to make these inaccurate guesses post some actual facts like this......


The stats are being pulled from guilded characters only, and players who are not flagged as hidden.


Last Update: Wednesday, September 25, 10 AM

 Order: 69811

Destruction: 102576

Novemerber 2nd, 10 am

Order: 203,916
Destruction: 260,958


now even if it is 90% of the population is guilded and 10% is solo and flagged as hidden that will still have a total of more than 500,000 subs, and that is for US servers only.




 

Compared to how much they hyped the game, and how much potential the Warhammer name has (had), I'd consider that to be a flop.

Originally posted by Honkie

Compared to how much they hyped the game, and how much potential the Warhammer name has (had), I'd consider that to be a flop.

how is it a flop? it is only released in US (with ocenaic servers and the EU.

it has the second most pay to play US sub base, only yo be beaten by WoW, even back in 2005 and 2006 WoW did not have the largest population.

will WAR ever beat those numbers HELL NO, even at the very rapid and succesful rate they they been improving WAR, they need to reach out more, raise thier server population cap from the speculated 5000 to 7000 and improve the ORvR spabilty more (mostly refering to tier4) and have a training grounds or something for first time MMO players.

so no the game is not a flop when they have already made at least 30 mil. in 4 months from a game they that cost 40 mil to make and that is US only.

Originally posted by snowchrome2

 

instead of you guessing and pulling pencentages out of your anus and only using a small pool of  players to make these inaccurate guesses post some actual facts like this......


The stats are being pulled from guilded characters only, and players who are not flagged as hidden.


Last Update: Wednesday, September 25, 10 AM

 Order: 69811

Destruction: 102576

Novemerber 2nd, 10 am

Order: 203,916
Destruction: 260,958


now even if it is 90% of the population is guilded and 10% is solo and flagged as hidden that will still have a total of more than 500,000 subs, and that is for US servers only.




 

And you get these stats from......

Originally posted by snowchrome2

Originally posted by Honkie

Compared to how much they hyped the game, and how much potential the Warhammer name has (had), I'd consider that to be a flop.

 

how is it a flop? it is only released in US (with ocenaic servers and the EU.

it has the second most pay to play US sub base, only yo be beaten by WoW, even back in 2005 and 2006 WoW did not have the largest population.

will WAR ever beat those numbers HELL NO, even at the very rapid and succesful rate they they been improving WAR, they need to reach out more, raise thier server population cap from the speculated 5000 to 7000 and improve the ORvR spabilty more (mostly refering to tier4) and have a training grounds or something for first time MMO players.

so no the game is not a flop when they have already made at least 30 mil. in 4 months from a game they that cost 40 mil to make and that is US only.

Only released in the US...plus EU and Oceanic.  lol

Allow me to repeat myself, since you didn't seem to get it the first time.  Compared to how much they hyped the game, and the potential the Warhammer name has (had), I consider the game to be a flop.

http://www.tillberg.us/warpop

and

http://www.wowhammer.net/2008/11/warhammer-statistical-analysis/comment-page-1/

well even if the poster that posted the 500k subs is correct ...we know for a fact that 1 million people applied to beta so I would say that a whole lot of people were dissapointed with war, me for one. I dont know I would call it a flop for those enjoying it..but for me yes it was.

would that not be a case of marketing myphoria?



PS. WoW was a big flop for me, i did not even played it for a full month, hell i played AoC and Matrix online longer than WoW.

anyway i spent enough time on these forums, Right now there is a 4 and a half warband group on skull throne trying to lock the dwave zone in tier4.

war is a failed as their system requirements for the same cartoony graphics is more demanding than wow (wow's success is due to the fact that yesteday's average pc can play it.)

the other factors that makes war a failiure.

1) is the poorly and confusing quests, wtf why should we be running aimless around.

2) technical issues with vista making the game crash to desktop quite often.

3) poor customer service and response.

4) long queue times for scenarios average 15-30mins and level in-balance (well they could hv done this the counterstrike way which makes it more skill dependent rather than higher levels having quite an advantage in 1vs1 situations).

5) crappy graphics wow has been graphics.

6) no ffa pvp between factions only in designated zones wtf....

just my 2 cents

Originally posted by snowchrome2


The stats are being pulled from guilded characters only, and players who are not flagged as hidden.


Last Update: Wednesday, September 25, 10 AM

 Order: 69811

Destruction: 102576

Novemerber 2nd, 10 am

Order: 203,916
Destruction: 260,958


now even if it is 90% of the population is guilded and 10% is solo and flagged as hidden that will still have a total of more than 500,000 subs, and that is for US servers only. 

You seems to have forgotten that you can have 10 chars per server on each account so even if there were only 10 servers then 5000 accounts could have half a million characters.

With that in mind half a million chars says little about the number of active accounts except that its very low at this stage compared to the sold boxes.

Ask yourselves this. If there was a much better mmo that released this year would any of you consider playing WAR ? To me WAR has some success only because there was nothing good out this year.

If this game was really good, then we wouldn't even be having this discussion so far after release. I expect some hate in the first month, but after that...there is no smoke without fire. Same deal with AOC.

Regards

Melmoth

Originally posted by BattleFelon

I keep hearing from fans of a certain other game cough WOW cough that WAR is a total flop and financial disaster.  This post is not to start a fanboi flamefest, but only to point out that WAR actually did very well in total box sales - .1.2 million and had 800,000 subscribers in the month after launch.

http://www.gamespot.com/news/6200329.html?tag=latestheadlines;title;1

Now, I recognize that WAR may not have 800K today, I think part of that is they launched at the same time as Blizzard's latest big release. I have nothing against Blizzard, but let's face it - they are the top name in PC Gaming. If you compare WAR sales to other AAA PC titles, it's actually been a major success. And the estimated 600K current subscribers makes it one of the biggest MMOGs behind WOW in North America/Europe. That means WAR is far from an "epic fail" or a "dying game."

Personally, I think if Mythic can keep improving the game as quickly as they are doing, subs will surpass 1 million as people get burned out on WOTLK.

The answer is simple, everything is relative.
WAR is an AAA, it was supposed to be a blockbuster, but unfortunately is not.
It has been targeted for the casual crowd therefore you would expect 1 million + subscribers (I am not talking about WoW figures)
Unfortunately for Mythic, WAR has now a subscription number that is closer to a niche game than an AAA game.
So in term of market share is a disaster, although that doesn't mean that it is a financial disaster.
I believe that WAR has enough subscribers to be profitable, but that doesn't mean it is a success.

It is like the next Batman movie making 50 million dollar rather than the usual 250.............of course it is profitable but it is considered a flop in the industry (that's just an example, not real figures).
Same is WAR.

 Poster above me is spot on, it's all relative and depends on what you want to compare it with.

If we go by MJs expectations, ie 1M within a year, then yes, it's a huge flop. If we go by the normal MMO subs number, between 150-250k subs, then no, it's a success. It has enough subs to keep it going for a while and it's players are having fun, which is what matters for them.

Originally posted by therginslurg

war is a failed as their system requirements for the same cartoony graphics is more demanding than wow (wow's success is due to the fact that yesteday's average pc can play it.)

the other factors that makes war a failiure.

1) is the poorly and confusing quests, wtf why should we be running aimless around.

2) technical issues with vista making the game crash to desktop quite often.

3) poor customer service and response.

4) long queue times for scenarios average 15-30mins and level in-balance (well they could hv done this the counterstrike way which makes it more skill dependent rather than higher levels having quite an advantage in 1vs1 situations).

5) crappy graphics wow has been graphics.

6) no ffa pvp between factions only in designated zones wtf....

just my 2 cents

Wow doesn't have better graphic, it does have better art, not the same thing. But that in itself is kinda sad since Warhammer FRPG got brilliant art, instead they aimed for it to look like the boardgame.

If MJ and Barnett hadn't said what they said before launch I wouldn't consider the game as a flop but they talked about 1 million subs and with those expections the game did flop, it doesn't even have half that.

It is kinda sad, because if they had used more from Warhammer FRPG the game would have been great instead of OK. The level system just doesn't work in the setting, it goes against everything that Warhammer are. I played the RPG since 91 so I would call myself a fan of the world.

Originally posted by Raztor

 Poster above me is spot on, it's all relative and depends on what you want to compare it with.

 

Ahhhhh there in lies the problem.....Everytime a new mmo is on the horizon out run the WOW Fanbois glee club in masses and in a hurry to compare everything about that game and WOW...They break out the pie charts, bar charts, sales numbers and Xfire(which is worthless because not everyone uses it). And yes it is mainly the WOW Fanbois that are stirring the pot in almost every game forum so thats why I direct my comments mainly at them...

anyways you can't compare anything to WOW or EQ2 until you give it a chance to live as long as they have....WOW didn't have 11.5 mill subs their first year. So to compare a game with 4+ years to a game that has been out a week a month or even 6 months is laughable at best. Give it time and the subscriber base will increase with time.....

Originally posted by BattleFelon

I keep hearing from fans of a certain other game cough WOW cough that WAR is a total flop and financial disaster.  This post is not to start a fanboi flamefest, but only to point out that WAR actually did very well in total box sales - .1.2 million and had 800,000 subscribers in the month after launch.

http://www.gamespot.com/news/6200329.html?tag=latestheadlines;title;1

Now, I recognize that WAR may not have 800K today, I think part of that is they launched at the same time as Blizzard's latest big release. I have nothing against Blizzard, but let's face it - they are the top name in PC Gaming. If you compare WAR sales to other AAA PC titles, it's actually been a major success. And the estimated 600K current subscribers makes it one of the biggest MMOGs behind WOW in North America/Europe. That means WAR is far from an "epic fail" or a "dying game."

Personally, I think if Mythic can keep improving the game as quickly as they are doing, subs will surpass 1 million as people get burned out on WOTLK.

Yes, considering what the Devs and publishers expected for this game, WAR flopped.