Well first off I hate to be the bearer or bad news, but if DF is completly awful, that community is coming to mortal online, and it will be the next big thing.

But fear not like someone eluded to in a previous post the people that come to these forums is but a very small % of people that actually play the game. And the moronic fanboys with no common sense are a very small % of the total % of people on the forums.  So deciding not to play a game based on a forum community is not very wise.

The perception of the DF community is a result of circumstance. Firstly, it will be the first fantasy MMO in years that has dared to buck the EQ-clone trend. Yes the devs have said that they have a vision for the game and are basically not open to negotiation (unless they ask).

Consequently DF has a legion of sandbox-starved MMO players that is chomping at the bit to finally play a game that suits its playstyle; it does not have something equivalent to play in the meantime. Those players are hyperactive on the forums, hence the term 'Forumfall.'

It is then legitimate, from their perspective, for those players to find it absurd when other people post asking that EQ/WoW-type features be implemented in DF. I am not saying that either party is right or wrong, only that their reactions are REASONABLE.

Now I have seen statements made to the effect of  'a company that refuses to listen to its customers is bound to fail.' IMO this is not applicable in the case of DF. Why? Firstly the game has not yet been released; it only has potential customers. Second, some potential customers are mutually exclusive to others. I refuse to play MMO's with conventional level-based character developement. There may be those that insist on it. Aventurine cannot capture us both; we have different needs.

Aventurine has chosen its target market and is designing their game for it. People who are asking for more moderate PvP features are in effect asking Aventurine to change their target market, a massive change in design direction.

Many MMO's tried to be everything to everyone; one size fits all so to speak. Like in any other industries, these products rarely excel in any one area. The MMO industry is now sufficiently large and competitive that this approach is not likely to be successful unless the development studio in question has resources and a concept that are superior to Blizzard's. Unless studios want to go head to head with an 800 lb gorilla (Blizzard, SOE, etc) they need to carve out their own niche. This is what Aventurine is doing and there is little point allocating precious resources to an expensive PR team to endlessly repeat their philosophy to people who want them to deviate from their target market.

Obviously there are those who do not appreciate this 'silent treatment.' Personally, I find it refreshing. In the past, there have been studios that talk about this and that, make promises and exagerations, and then fall flat in the end. Why waste the resources? Build it, if it works, they will come.

So what is the point of my diatribe? The people in the DF community are no different that any other but their situation is. If Mortal Online's (assuming its features are similar to DF)  timeline was switched with DF, then you would likely be seeing the same sort of 'passion' in its community. However, the focus is on DF and that's where things are hotest. 

Sorry, but Darkfall is heading for a massive fail IMHO and the reason is the Darkfall community itself and the bad management of that community.

Here are a couple of threads discussing the issue:

http://www.mmorpg.com/discussion2.cfm/thread/199536/page/1

(See post 70 onward in the above thread)

http://www.mmorpg.com/discussion2.cfm/post/2293397#2293397

As I have said before:
I think you will find (as I have said) that the behaviour on the forums will translate directly to the behaviour in the game when it goes live.

And while game mechanics (or lack thereof) are a big part of the problem (and the solution) the community can make a big difference too.

By allowing your community to build with a bunch of trash talkers, bullies and self confessed griefers running riot on a forum you are effectively saying "We find this behaviour acceptable."

Players in game take their que from this. This will be reflected in the sort of players the game attracts overall. It will be reflected in the way players approach and play the game and their expectations of it.

So, even without looking at the game I would have to say Darkfall is in trouble.  Which is a shame because if it delivered on what it promised it could be a very interesting game.
Maybe, depending on how it works, the in game rules and mechanics might make it work?
I hope so, but I will sit back and watch for a couple of months to see what happens.

Originally posted by Gyrus

Sorry, but Darkfall is heading for a massive fail IMHO and the reason is the Darkfall community itself and the bad management of that community.

Here are a couple of threads discussing the issue:

http://www.mmorpg.com/discussion2.cfm/thread/199536/page/1

(See post 70 onward in the above thread)

http://www.mmorpg.com/discussion2.cfm/post/2293397#2293397

 

As I have said before:
I think you will find (as I have said) that the behaviour on the forums will translate directly to the behaviour in the game when it goes live.

And while game mechanics (or lack thereof) are a big part of the problem (and the solution) the community can make a big difference too.

By allowing your community to build with a bunch of trash talkers, bullies and self confessed griefers running riot on a forum you are effectively saying "We find this behaviour acceptable."

Players in game take their que from this. This will be reflected in the sort of players the game attracts overall. It will be reflected in the way players approach and play the game and their expectations of it.

 

So, even without looking at the game I would have to say Darkfall is in trouble.  Which is a shame because if it delivered on what it promised it could be a very interesting game.
Maybe, depending on how it works, the in game rules and mechanics might make it work?
I hope so, but I will sit back and watch for a couple of months to see what happens.

 

 

you do know there alot less that actully dont post right lol there maybe 10 fans ehre so yoru saying 100 people will amke a gam fial yea i migh t argue but im actully anice guy thats not going to be a dick ill bet you money it wont fail if the mechanics are odne right

youd o know there like maybe 10 fans on this forums right? id ont see how 10 people will make a game fail msot of the other fans dont give 2 cents about this site because of post like yours

aand yes it all depends on the mechanics if the mechanics dont do squat then .. yea i understand if df goes into aocmplete gankfest with no remorse for anyone then it will fail.. but i dotn think its going to come down tot hat alot of pkers are in for a rude awakeing. esspiccly with the starter towns and the skill system with not knowing what someone is carrying for skills and what not

Originally posted by Ohaan

The perception of the DF community is a result of circumstance. Firstly, it will be the first fantasy MMO in years that has dared to buck the EQ-clone trend. Yes the devs have said that they have a vision for the game and are basically not open to negotiation (unless they ask).

Consequently DF has a legion of sandbox-starved MMO players that is chomping at the bit to finally play a game that suits its playstyle; it does not have something equivalent to play in the meantime. Those players are hyperactive on the forums, hence the term 'Forumfall.'

It is then legitimate, from their perspective, for those players to find it absurd when other people post asking that EQ/WoW-type features be implemented in DF. I am not saying that either party is right or wrong, only that their reactions are REASONABLE.

Now I have seen statements made to the effect of  'a company that refuses to listen to its customers is bound to fail.' IMO this is not applicable in the case of DF. Why? Firstly the game has not yet been released; it only has potential customers. Second, some potential customers are mutually exclusive to others. I refuse to play MMO's with conventional level-based character developement. There may be those that insist on it. Aventurine cannot capture us both; we have different needs.

Aventurine has chosen its target market and is designing their game for it. People who are asking for more moderate PvP features are in effect asking Aventurine to change their target market, a massive change in design direction.

Many MMO's tried to be everything to everyone; one size fits all so to speak. Like in any other industries, these products rarely excel in any one area. The MMO industry is now sufficiently large and competitive that this approach is not likely to be successful unless the development studio in question has resources and a concept that are superior to Blizzard's. Unless studios want to go head to head with an 800 lb gorilla (Blizzard, SOE, etc) they need to carve out their own niche. This is what Aventurine is doing and there is little point allocating precious resources to an expensive PR team to endlessly repeat their philosophy to people who want them to deviate from their target market.

Obviously there are those who do not appreciate this 'silent treatment.' Personally, I find it refreshing. In the past, there have been studios that talk about this and that, make promises and exagerations, and then fall flat in the end. Why waste the resources? Build it, if it works, they will come.

So what is the point of my diatribe? The people in the DF community are no different that any other but their situation is. If Mortal Online's (assuming its features are similar to DF)  timeline was switched with DF, then you would likely be seeing the same sort of 'passion' in its community. However, the focus is on DF and that's where things are hotest. 

actully alot of darkfall people are kinda warry with MO its smells to much like scam to me and alot of other people. selling tshirts already caliming shit thats honestly i dont think can be done with unreal engine but hey i guess we willf ind out and also the lead dev person talos kinda makes me think thats  a stab at tasos So yea you have been warned about mo

Originally posted by toddze

Well first off I hate to be the bearer or bad news, but if DF is completly awful, that community is coming to mortal online, and it will be the next big thing.

But fear not like someone eluded to in a previous post the people that come to these forums is but a very small % of people that actually play the game. And the moronic fanboys with no common sense are a very small % of the total % of people on the forums.  So deciding not to play a game based on a forum community is not very wise.

some might follwo Mo most wont looks like BS to most of us

Originally posted by downtoearth

Originally posted by toddze

Well first off I hate to be the bearer or bad news, but if DF is completly awful, that community is coming to mortal online, and it will be the next big thing.

But fear not like someone eluded to in a previous post the people that come to these forums is but a very small % of people that actually play the game. And the moronic fanboys with no common sense are a very small % of the total % of people on the forums.  So deciding not to play a game based on a forum community is not very wise.

 

some might follwo Mo most wont looks like BS to most of us

Well, it can look like BS to you. You are entitle to your opinion. The facts are, however, that they have bought licenses with three completely legitimate companies (Epic, Quad Software and SpeedTree). A simple review of those sites shows thier legitimacy via their testimonials. Those are considerable investments and the amount of money involved their would have to be a really rich person involved to pull off such a hoax.

I can understand that it (MO) and its features of graphic style may not be your kind of gameplay or look. But BS? Hardly. Unless they run out of money and can't fund the project it's going to happen. And from what I have seen so far they are in just as good (at the worst) but most likely better financial position than Adventurine.

downtoearth,

Before I reply... are you an English as a second language poster?

Originally posted by downtoearth

 

actully alot of darkfall people are kinda warry with MO DF its smells to much like scam to me and alot of other people.

oh the irony.

If some one could show me a video of and interview of the DF devs i will be gladly happy, but for now all i have seen are writen interviews. Mortal has a video on the news at thier home town showing their office and talking about the game.

PS-Yes i have seen the videos on Youtube but non of them prof anything to me really ,some in-game fottage.

After taking a quick look at the mortal online website it seems they are going for a hard zoned and/or instanced world. That's a game killer for me. If I remember DFO developers have said up front they will have a seamless non instanced world. Most other things being equal that alone makes DFO far preferable.

@polypterus -Wow, you know absolutly nothing about MO. Its the total opposite of what you said; they are aiming at a completly seamless and 0 instance. Why the hell do you post stuff that you have no idea about.

Originally posted by Daedrick

@polypterus -Wow, you know absolutly nothing about MO. Its the total opposite of what you said; they are aiming at a completly seamless and 0 instance. Why the hell do you post stuff that you have no idea about.

 Ok so fill me in. I could very well be wrong on that. I was just going by what I read on an FAQish post. Can you point me to a link that discusses this in a bit more detail?

Edit: Here is an answer to a question. Note:  It is not very definitive but it does give me the impression there will be zones of some sort. Again if you have anything more definitive post it please.
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Shawk
One quick question if you don't mind, about the instances you explained, does that mean they will be more like zones? like Everquest/Daoc had for example as their dungeons/city zones?

I'm sorry, but it's really too early to tell how we will handle instances/zones. A lot of work is going on here at the moment. But I want to give you at least some idea of what we're dealing with:

When for example entering a city or a cave, a short loading time (and zone-splitting) gives us the opportunity to create really unique content for that zone, both visually and gameplay-wise. It could be specific buildings, creatures, mechanics and so on. This would benefits both PvP and PvE. However, if there are zones the transition must be handled very carefully as to not ruin the everyday PvP. Border-ganking is one of those issues. Another issue is of course that loading time (even as little as say 20 seconds) tends to spoil the feeling of a seamless world. We are of course trying our best to avoid them.

I personally feel that instancing is totally ok when it can be motivated in the game. To give you an example, Arena Fatalis, the large gladiator court in the capital city of Tindrem, will most likely be an instance. In role-playing terms, the arena will simply be "full" when enough people participate and/or spectate. I simply don't think it's necessary for a player to find out that it is "full" by walking in and watch it lag, and possibly spoil the ongoing fights.
However, more info on this later.
 

As I paraphrase a Darkfall fanboi,

"DF has no quest markers, and no quest log! The people giving you quests aren't marked either, since it's like this in my game, you're stupid.

I have a response to everyone who says this,

"No, it doesn't mean you're smarter. It means you'll have to wander around 3 days looking for the one spot the quest needs you to go while trying to remember the text before you give up after getting ganked for the 5th time and go talk to the quest giver... being you can find the unmarked model :) . You have fun with that, I'll go back to LOTRO where I can refer to clear cardinel directions all the time."

Mortal Online does look quite a bit more fun than Darkfall from what I've seen, mainly the crafting system. Being I've heard nothing of Darkfall's and heard that MO has some big plans under their belt.

here jkooler, since you obviously know nothing about DF and its development

this is darkfall team presenting their game in Athens digital week

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q16v_OZRSL8

Mortal could be a great game in about 2 years, they will not make a game like DF with all the features when they barely have any screens and a pre rendered video. Summer 09 is not realistic in my eyes.  also selling t-shirts before they acctualy had 1 real screenshot of the game. smells like AoC hype

about DF's community, yes it's rough but if DF fails they will go to Mortal...no ifs or butts..only reason they are not there now is because MO is a long way off from release

Originally posted by Jkooler

If some one could show me a video of and interview of the DF devs i will be gladly happy, but for now all i have seen are writen interviews. Mortal has a video on the news at thier home town showing their office and talking about the game.

PS-Yes i have seen the videos on Youtube but non of them prof anything to me really ,some in-game fottage.

Does being in closed beta count for anything? I've seen hundreds of DFO screenshots and many descriptions of gameplay from beta-testers which sound awesome.

Someone who is not going to try DF when it comes out( even if it is great), but are waiting for MO(which is very similar to DF...) sound more like a rabid, illogical fan than anything else.  If you are going to enjoy mortal online then you will enjoy Darkfall(if they both deliver).  And dont give me that BULL about the DF community sucking blah blah blah.  The game is not even out, and you are basing your opinion of the community upon a handfull of people from the forums (out of over 250 THOUSAND).

All that aside, if you compare them side by side this is how I see it:

Darkfall:

About to release

more and better content

Mortal Online:

Not about to release

will play if DF fails

@polyp

 Hmmm yeah sorry about my overly agressive post. I didnt take the time to read the FAQ myself. Anyway, the following text is from Mats Persson a developers.

 Quote:
Originally Posted by Parad1ne
As of right now there aren't. They aren't yet for sure if they plan to have them during travel to different continents or dungeons. We wont know until further testing, but they are aiming for no instances at all.

Mats Persson said; Traveling to other continents will most likely mean loading time (we're talking HUGE areas here). But there are no instances yet
 

Thats where I go this info.

Originally posted by strongaxe

All that aside, if you compare them side by side this is how I see it:

Darkfall:

About to release

more and better content

Mortal Online:

Not about to release

will play if DF fails

 

 

how in the hell  do you know that darkfall will have more and better content than MO? we don't even know all of MO's features yet! why do so many df fans come to this conclusion?

Originally posted by shrapnel20

Originally posted by strongaxe

All that aside, if you compare them side by side this is how I see it:

Darkfall:

About to release

more and better content

Mortal Online:

Not about to release

will play if DF fails

 

 

how in the hell  do you know that darkfall will have more and better content than MO? we don't even know all of MO's features yet! why do so many df fans come to this conclusion?

You just gave the reason...When more info comes out my statment could be modified. But as of now it is 100% true.