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12/26/08 4:48:25 PM#21
Originally posted by DarthRaiden
Ty. Will check it out, even if my Italian sucks. They still need to put forth more info into the mainstream. This will create a sense of validity. Remember, Aventurine is trying to sell me, for they need my money as a customer to survive. I cannot speak for everyone, but as for myself, I find I am very reluctant to believe in, much less, pony up cash for something I have to scour the web for. Being DF is a month off of release, they need to feed my need for info and make it as easy as possible. They need to sell me, and the best way to do that is to let various sources (affiliate, review, business and fan) do the speaking. I am only speaking for myself, as a potential DF customer. I wanna believe in DF, I just need Aventurine to gimme a reason to believe, or better yet...buy it.
They didn't much of marketing campaign..there is even no one employeed for PR, they believe its not needed till the game launches..Now that we approaching release date hopefully these will change ..
Yeah, I have heard that about their marketing dept. I agree with you that they now need to step it up. Like I said earlier, how about them relaxing the NDA somewhat so that testers (not hand picked ones) can report? This would cost nothing for Aventurine and strengthen's DF's legitimacy. The other thing, is that this type of PR is very unfair to you ardent fans, after all they are not giving you much ammo to help you out against nay-sayers. |
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DarthRaiden
Apprentice Member
Joined: 11/20/05
i make art, Forum Terrorist |
12/26/08 4:57:27 PM#22
Originally posted by Korhindi
Ty. Will check it out, even if my Italian sucks. They still need to put forth more info into the mainstream. This will create a sense of validity. Remember, Aventurine is trying to sell me, for they need my money as a customer to survive. I cannot speak for everyone, but as for myself, I find I am very reluctant to believe in, much less, pony up cash for something I have to scour the web for. Being DF is a month off of release, they need to feed my need for info and make it as easy as possible. They need to sell me, and the best way to do that is to let various sources (affiliate, review, business and fan) do the speaking. I am only speaking for myself, as a potential DF customer. I wanna believe in DF, I just need Aventurine to gimme a reason to believe, or better yet...buy it.
They didn't much of marketing campaign..there is even no one employeed for PR, they believe its not needed till the game launches..Now that we approaching release date hopefully these will change ..
Yeah, I have heard that about their marketing dept. I agree with you that they now need to step it up. Like I said earlier, how about them relaxing the NDA somewhat so that testers (not hand picked ones) can report? This would cost nothing for Aventurine and strengthen's DF's legitimacy. The other thing, is that this type of PR is very unfair to you ardent fans, after all they are not giving you much ammo to help you out against nay-sayers.
The press will get into beta by early Januar is the word right now. (Italians set one of their beta press-keys in a Xmas special contest -They also said something along the lines like "right before everyone else" ) -----MY-TERMS-OF-USE-------------------------------------------------- "There was suppression of speech and all kinds of things between disturbing and fascistic." Raph Koster (parted $OE) |
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12/26/08 4:59:45 PM#23
Originally posted by DarthRaiden
They didn't much of marketing campaign..there is even no one employeed for PR, they believe its not needed till the game launches..Now that we approaching release date hopefully these will change ..
Yeah, I have heard that about their marketing dept. I agree with you that they now need to step it up. Like I said earlier, how about them relaxing the NDA somewhat so that testers (not hand picked ones) can report? This would cost nothing for Aventurine and strengthen's DF's legitimacy. The other thing, is that this type of PR is very unfair to you ardent fans, after all they are not giving you much ammo to help you out against nay-sayers.
The press will get into beta by early Januar is the word right now. (Italians set one of their beta press-keys in a Xmas special contest -They also said something along the lines like "right before everyone else" )
Ah, very cool. I look forward to it. |
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KrystDaymen
Novice Member
Joined: 12/19/08
"No one ever lost a dime underestimating the taste of the american public" P.T. Barnum |
12/26/08 5:10:06 PM#24
Originally posted by Korhindi
All this sounds very good. My problem is all that I see is text. There is the one 17 min vid and about 10 screens from the noob comic which really doesn't show all that much. Certainly nothing in your narative above. I go to the website, and I see the same screenies and text I saw two years ago. I go to the noob and I see text and a very few edited screens. I read the Curse or MMORPG.com interviews and get nothing but text. The DF fans post Text...not screens, not vids, not play journals, but TEXT...all empty promises until further proof is given. DF and Tasos now have to be careful. Too much of this cloak and dagger bull and no one will try the game even if it IS good. Folks don't like to be jerked around, and posts like this (and the referenced Tasos interview) is very much jerking us around. It makes me ask, "What is it that Aventurine wants to hide so bad?" Anyone can type up a list of features and testimonials. What the DF devs need to do now, is release hard screen and video evidence to back up and support the OP and the Curse interview. They need to relax the NDA and let their testers begin to advertise for them. If they do that, then this type of PR will be a smash success. However, as it stands, it sounds like a few folks are being paid or are volunteering to blow smoke up our butts and then condemn us when we ask to see the cigarette that is creating the smoke. The only Immersion I see are the epic claims and resulting hate on these forums.... It is high time for the DF devs to put up or shut up.
Even though I am a fan of what DF COULD be, I have to agree with the wisdom in your post. I don't think that it is unreasonable at this point for the dev's to release more than they have so far. I mean the game is supposedly going to launch on 1-22-09 so it's not like a rival company could suddenly steal their ideas ( if it's good this will happen anyway after release, just look at the TON of wow clones), so now is the time for tv commercials, released gameplay vids and all of that. I have to say that while I'm not accusing the dev's of blowing smoke, it does certainly seem that at this late date they are trying to hide SOMETHING. BTW...I have read every interview I could find, seen every vid screenshot, looked up any piece of info on this game that I could and even tho I've only been waiting for this game around 2 months now, I FEEL as if it's been forever...so I can only IMAGINE how those of you that have been waiting 7 years feel. I would have given up on it long ago I must say. Again though, I hope that DF releases and we find out it's everything we've been promised and more. But to all of us fanbois I have to say, remember the reality is rarely as good as the dream. Let's just hope it's close. Krystar Daymen (Old School UO player baby) |
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12/26/08 5:11:33 PM#25
Originally posted by Korhindi
I agree. I think most would agree that both AoC and WAR had some compelling game designs with mechanics that sounded like they could work (as communicated by their companies, fans, and reviewers, similar to Darkfall). However, I think the majority would agree that they did not adequately deliver upon the designs they shared with the gaming community. My worry is that Darkfall will simply not deliver on the lofty design proposed. Even worse, even if they do drop NDA and have open beta or a free trial it is very difficult to judge a game before playing ALL of its content. Case in point - many people knew about WAR before it released as they dropped the NDA and had a "open" beta for pre-orders that lasted a week or two. I myself participated and was impressed with the early stages of the game. However, the game was obviously all about the end game war and capturing cities. After release, once players got max level and started attempting fortress and city sieges, they realized that the game was broken (not to say that they won't eventually fix it). Again, my fear is that this could happen in Darkfall as the beginning game could be all nice and fun, but who will really know the state of the "end game" clan warring? Of course, as I alluded to, I believe most mmorpgs suffer from this as they try to offer some sort of end game that will ensure continued subscription. I suppose it also depends on what you want out of the game - solo pkers will not care if clan warring is completely disfunctional. |
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12/26/08 5:22:25 PM#26
Originally posted by KrystDaymen
Even though I am a fan of what DF COULD be, I have to agree with the wisdom in your post. I don't think that it is unreasonable at this point for the dev's to release more than they have so far. I mean the game is supposedly going to launch on 1-22-09 so it's not like a rival company could suddenly steal their ideas ( if it's good this will happen anyway after release, just look at the TON of wow clones), so now is the time for tv commercials, released gameplay vids and all of that. I have to say that while I'm not accusing the dev's of blowing smoke, it does certainly seem that at this late date they are trying to hide SOMETHING. BTW...I have read every interview I could find, seen every vid screenshot, looked up any piece of info on this game that I could and even tho I've only been waiting for this game around 2 months now, I FEEL as if it's been forever...so I can only IMAGINE how those of you that have been waiting 7 years feel. I would have given up on it long ago I must say. Again though, I hope that DF releases and we find out it's everything we've been promised and more. But to all of us fanbois I have to say, remember the reality is rarely as good as the dream. Let's just hope it's close. I hear you. I am relatively new to the Darkfall scene, so I can only imagine how it is for the long time fans. Yeah, I see no harm in relaxing or lowering the NDA at this point either. As I said to DarthRaiden above, is that this style of PR is very rough on the fans and the ardent supporters, for they are given little to show for their support. All this said, I think I hang out here and post my missgivings because I want DF to be all that Tasos, Jessonator, DarthRaiden, etc. says it will be. My problem is I am just too stubborn and synical to go on faith. |
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KrystDaymen
Novice Member
Joined: 12/19/08
"No one ever lost a dime underestimating the taste of the american public" P.T. Barnum |
12/26/08 5:30:18 PM#27
Originally posted by skankyrart
I agree. I think most would agree that both AoC and WAR had some compelling game designs with mechanics that sounded like they could work (as communicated by their companies, fans, and reviewers, similar to Darkfall). However, I think the majority would agree that they did not adequately deliver upon the designs they shared with the gaming community. My worry is that Darkfall will simply not deliver on the lofty design proposed. Even worse, even if they do drop NDA and have open beta or a free trial it is very difficult to judge a game before playing ALL of its content. Case in point - many people knew about WAR before it released as they dropped the NDA and had a "open" beta for pre-orders that lasted a week or two. I myself participated and was impressed with the early stages of the game. However, the game was obviously all about the end game war and capturing cities. After release, once players got max level and started attempting fortress and city sieges, they realized that the game was broken (not to say that they won't eventually fix it). Again, my fear is that this could happen in Darkfall as the beginning game could be all nice and fun, but who will really know the state of the "end game" clan warring? Of course, as I alluded to, I believe most mmorpgs suffer from this as they try to offer some sort of end game that will ensure continued subscription. I suppose it also depends on what you want out of the game - solo pkers will not care if clan warring is completely disfunctional. This reply is purely speculation and opinion on my part. I agree with you on most of what you said. However I don't think that DF is going to be about "end game" as much as it will be about a sustained, persistant, virtual world that moves in cycles as does the real world. As with the real world, sometimes things will be great, sometimes they will suck. Some people will be happy in Agon...some people will not. People will come and go...but hopefully the ones that can realize the vision and potential of what this type of virtual world could be, will stay and try to shape it and make it so. That is of course if the dev Deities don't end up reigning down Meteorites of Nerfness on all their followers as has happened in other virtual worlds. Can I get an amen from the original SWG players, can I get a "Preach on brother!" from the pre AoS UO players...lol. Krystar Daymen (Old School UO player baby) |
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12/26/08 5:33:54 PM#28
Originally posted by skankyrart
I agree. I think most would agree that both AoC and WAR had some compelling game designs with mechanics that sounded like they could work (as communicated by their companies, fans, and reviewers, similar to Darkfall). However, I think the majority would agree that they did not adequately deliver upon the designs they shared with the gaming community. My worry is that Darkfall will simply not deliver on the lofty design proposed. Even worse, even if they do drop NDA and have open beta or a free trial it is very difficult to judge a game before playing ALL of its content. Case in point - many people knew about WAR before it released as they dropped the NDA and had a "open" beta for pre-orders that lasted a week or two. I myself participated and was impressed with the early stages of the game. However, the game was obviously all about the end game war and capturing cities. After release, once players got max level and started attempting fortress and city sieges, they realized that the game was broken (not to say that they won't eventually fix it). Again, my fear is that this could happen in Darkfall as the beginning game could be all nice and fun, but who will really know the state of the "end game" clan warring? Of course, as I alluded to, I believe most mmorpgs suffer from this as they try to offer some sort of end game that will ensure continued subscription. I suppose it also depends on what you want out of the game - solo pkers will not care if clan warring is completely disfunctional. Good points. Yeah, there is no way to tell about end-game via tester reviews but some pre-game info would be nice. All one can hope is that a company delivers on its promises, or if they can't, be up front and honest about it and fix it ASAP. This style of PR Aventurine is doing is not fostering my trust because it is not a "up front" style of marketing. |
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12/26/08 5:37:15 PM#29
I think it's probably a good idea not to say what the game is about, what the features are and what the endgame is, the less info produced before release the better for Aventurine. If you don't know what it's supposed to about or what the features are you can't pick fault with it later based on expectations, you are forced to play and comment on the game for what it is. Those guys that were part of the wow team but left to make their own company are even worse, they won't even say what their mmorpg is about or give any details at all, and that teams supposed to be cream of development industry. Good companies with very high quality products do not need to demeen themselves with crass marketing techniques, we don't know if this is the case with aventurine but it may be. There isn't really any reason people need this information, they can wait a couple of months until after it's released if they need to before thinking about buying the game. If the game is good it won't make a lot of difference in long term sales, wow got less than 10% of it's customer base in the first couple of months, good games sell regardless of info produced before release. First day sells may not be as impressive but their aim should be an increasing subscriber base not large amounts on release day and downward from there onwards as seen in recent games. |
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12/26/08 5:38:08 PM#30
Originally posted by KrystDaymen This reply is purely speculation and opinion on my part. I agree with you on most of what you said. However I don't think that DF is going to be about "end game" as much as it will be about a sustained, persistant, virtual world that moves in cycles as does the real world. As with the real world, sometimes things will be great, sometimes they will suck. Some people will be happy in Agon...some people will not. People will come and go...but hopefully the ones that can realize the vision and potential of what this type of virtual world could be, will stay and try to shape it and make it so. That is of course if the dev Deities don't end up reigning down Meteorites of Nerfness on all their followers as has happened in other virtual worlds. Can I get an amen from the original SWG players, can I get a "Preach on brother!" from the pre AoS UO players...lol.
(Ex SWG player) |
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12/26/08 5:44:04 PM#31
Originally posted by Blodpls
Normally, I would agree with you. I think Aventurine would have benefited from your insight here. However, when both fans and Reps (Tasos) say things like, "This is the 4th Gen of MMO's", "It's better than....anything ever released..." and so on, I say they need to put forth some proof. Otherwise, the old addage of "If it is too good to be true" will kick in. Given the claims Aventurine have made for DF, they raised the bar of expectation on themseleves very high. |
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DarthRaiden
Apprentice Member
Joined: 11/20/05
i make art, Forum Terrorist |
12/26/08 5:45:29 PM#32
Originally posted by KrystDaymen This reply is purely speculation and opinion on my part. I agree with you on most of what you said. However I don't think that DF is going to be about "end game" as much as it will be about a sustained, persistant, virtual world that moves in cycles as does the real world. As with the real world, sometimes things will be great, sometimes they will suck. Some people will be happy in Agon...some people will not. People will come and go...but hopefully the ones that can realize the vision and potential of what this type of virtual world could be, will stay and try to shape it and make it so. That is of course if the dev Deities don't end up reigning down Meteorites of Nerfness on all their followers as has happened in other virtual worlds. Can I get an amen from the original SWG players, can I get a "Preach on brother!" from the pre AoS UO players...lol.
Amen.... (tho without "profession" to nerf..the 'damage' can be done should be limited ..cause they concerning hopefully only single spells/skills :P) -----MY-TERMS-OF-USE-------------------------------------------------- "There was suppression of speech and all kinds of things between disturbing and fascistic." Raph Koster (parted $OE) |
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KrystDaymen
Novice Member
Joined: 12/19/08
"No one ever lost a dime underestimating the taste of the american public" P.T. Barnum |
12/26/08 5:46:07 PM#33
Originally posted by Blodpls Although I agree with the second paragraph for the most part, the part I hilited in red is rather comical. The game has been hyped SOOO much by the company, just because of it's "innovative" features,( and I say that laughingly because all the systems in DF have been done before but it's nice to see them in one game), that what are we SUPPOSED to have if not high expectation? I wouldn't want to be AventurinE or Tasos if this game comes out and tanks. IMHO. Krystar Daymen (Old School UO player baby) |
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12/26/08 5:51:12 PM#34
Originally posted by KrystDaymen As far as I can see they have not hyped it at all, all they done is given a few interviews and some videos. They haven't gone out of their way to say "our game is the best ever, we have all these unique features" we don't even know what the features are and those they have show us are not unique so how can they be hyping them, it's only the fans drawing conclusion from the limited info. Hyping in my view is doing high profile interviews, adverts, walkthrough video's with commentary, game convention presence, full detailed feature lists ect, they haven't done anything like this. Look at their website, lol, it's obvious they don't care at all about public perception. In my experience whenever you see companies doing a lot of the above their game is normally a steaming pile. |
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DarthRaiden
Apprentice Member
Joined: 11/20/05
i make art, Forum Terrorist |
12/26/08 5:57:50 PM#35
Originally posted by KrystDaymen Although I agree with the second paragraph for the most part, the part I hilited in red is rather comical. The game has been hyped SOOO much by the company, just because of it's "innovative" features,( and I say that laughingly because all the systems in DF have been done before but it's nice to see them in one game), that what are we SUPPOSED to have if not high expectation? I wouldn't want to be AventurinE or Tasos if this game comes out and tanks. IMHO.
Ironically, the "old" features may appear very new to "innovative" to many MMO'ers of these days .. At least i hope thread subject like "4th generation" meant with a wink... What we should look for as DF innovation could be the praised A I and/or rsome hidden for our eyes server technology to prevent lag..anything else would be suprisingly "innovative" as to my expectations ..Maybe they have given working solutions to MMO gameplay problems .. (Like the random spawn location to prevent spawn camping) -----MY-TERMS-OF-USE-------------------------------------------------- "There was suppression of speech and all kinds of things between disturbing and fascistic." Raph Koster (parted $OE) |
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12/26/08 6:08:49 PM#36
For what I've seen from Darkfall it would be daring too much saying 'it will tank and push forward the game genre or mechanics'.... See the videos, listen to the greek speech and watch the graphics that if not dated they are at least poor in performance and shows a lack of Concept Artist involved in. The landscapes are very Dark&Light-styled but not so good as they were in that vaporware big steampunk. It smells bad, being honest ~~ and it comes because I'm not a hater neither a lover of DF ~~ to the General Hyped Gamer. I still play UO and I'm a Pre-NGE SWG Vet and I'm very busy playing the games I like nowadays; I'm not hyped or contrary to DF but... think for a moment; if you loot everything you need to recover your gear, and if you are not the God of PvP you may suppose you are then 5 seconds of PvP guides you to some days of PvE to make a nice recovery to get involved in maybe a victory, that guides the other guy to some days of collecting materials an gear to get into fights back.... and on and on. I don't see this game as a PvP-focused game but another grind with less PvP than many other well-stablished titles which are more focused on real PvP-centric conception. So no hopes for the so-called 'Hardcore PvP'ers' here. Move along.
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12/26/08 7:39:08 PM#37
Originally posted by KrystDaymen I guess I tried to leave the "end game" more open ended. While I myself will be interested in clan warfare, people will end up doing what they enjoy - whether it be developing a crafting business or becoming a feared solo pvper. And as you said, things will be cyclic and that entails them not always being great. As such people will come and go - but hopefully, if the game is interesting and entertaining enough (due to its differences from other things on the market) we will see a player base stick around. |
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12/26/08 7:49:41 PM#38
You caught me red handed. I was hoping that an MMO would finally be fun. And I was so desperate that I made up things holding them as fact to make this MMO seem so good that when I played it in my mind I was having fun. Now that you have showed me my fanboi errors with YOUR facts, I will go back to settling with the crappy MMOs on todays market. I should not have once expected for a moment that our genre would evolve, or that it would be worth playing. Please, those of you who are insightful, and who forsaw that Darkfall would be such a failure take me to your game, I'm sure somone as keen as you must have found one that doesn't blow. Its dissapointing Darkfall has failed. I guess its time for your I told you so's eh? Now that you have proven us wrong. Now that Darkfall has been exposed as a failure. Now that we have all played and noticed that its impossible to stalk somone without stealth. And that there are no player experiences because it was never beta tested. And that it is a gankfest that is full of not fun. And its immersive qualities were poorly implemented proving that things such as friendly fire and no stealth were excluded for a good reason. Those of us who were caught by such features will submit to your better judgement. After all you are the ones with the good judgement. Those who anticipated Darkfall are just speculators. We should have known it would fail instead of speculating it could be fun. I cant believe I speculated. I'll stop now. But really, I have to smile every time somone says that Darkfall doesn't have what it says it has. Because it is based even less so then those who believe that it has what it says it has. |
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12/26/08 8:29:37 PM#39
Originally posted by Xiliaro
I *know the last sentence................ |
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KrystDaymen
Novice Member
Joined: 12/19/08
"No one ever lost a dime underestimating the taste of the american public" P.T. Barnum |
12/26/08 8:54:18 PM#40
Originally posted by Xiliaro Part in red deserves some kind of award bro!! Hilarious sarcasm. I agree. We get shot down by the haters for daring to hope. Yet what is sad is that they, apparently, have lost hope. And what point is there to ANYTHING without hope? Krystar Daymen (Old School UO player baby) |
Amen...
