Originally posted by SignusM

It has no original concepts, mechanics, ideas, or features, and yet people praise it as though it were a god. 

I have to disagree with this sentiment to an extent.

What Blizzard did in making their debut MMO was to take ideas from everything that came before it and refine it, polish it, and recombine the elements into a very accessible game that appeals to a mass audience.

You may not like this, it's taken "your" genre and mainstreamed it.

This isn't a new phenomenon at all...it's been done before with many other forms of entertainment.

The problem is that it quickly becomes formula and in the process loses the charm it once held for some.

The problem becomes that anyone seeking to launch a new game has to raise capital to do it, and the money guys are totally obsessed with the fabulous torrents of cash that flow into Blizzard's coffers from WoW.

So much so that they dare not allow innovation, especially in economically hard times.  These people are basically cowards.  They want the sure thing.

So be as much like WoW, the sure thing, as you can.

Innovation takes a very distant back seat to filthy lucre.

Not a single one of those we're first used in WoW.

I'm sure there are other games as well, but I'm going off of experience here:

Earth and Beyond had an evolving storyline where things ACTUALLY changed, you didnt goto Grizzly hills to meet your old People's Militia friends, then travel back to westfall and still see them in 2 places at once, the game and zones actually changed based on the storyline...once the Defias were defeated, they were gone. And the changing storyline actually applied to the game, people didnt run heroics/raids all day or farm BG's and arenas and not give 2 ****s about, or even notice there was a story).

Earth and Beyond also had daily missions...and having a daily dungeon that is no different than it normally is on any other day, yet give a small reward is hardly a spectacular feature, thats like saying some random weapon in the game was first seen in WoW, how innovative.

Planetside had vehicles, other games had ships and such things, Lineage 1 and 2 had castles that could be destroyed...In Lineage 2 you can summon a siege Golem bigger than Onyxia and start smashing castle walls down, or summon a huge cannon that blows up the wall, etc...

Lineage 2 had flying mounts (only a select few clan leaders who owned a castle could use them) long before WoW did, and I highly, highly doubt that L2 was the first game to do that.

World of Warcraft is a game, Calindor. That game is our enemy. But when you're inside, you look around, what do you see? Businessmen, teachers, lawyers, carpenters. The very minds of the people we are trying to save. But until we do, these people are still a part of that game and that makes them our enemy. You have to understand, most of these people are not ready to be unplugged. And many of them are so inured, so hopelessly dependent on the game, that they will fight to protect it.

It's almost disturbing how well the above fits in with this game.

What I hate about WOW is that so many people think WOW is the greatest problem in our world today, they will continuously argue about why WOW is so bad. Who the hell cares? I wish people would get this upset and motivated about the issues of the day and the problems of our world (like hunger and poverty) and would use their time to fix those problems instead of arguing about a video game like it really matters.

Wow isn't for everyone. If you don't like it, fine...move on. It is just a game and in the end, all that matters is that the people playing it, enjoy it.

Originally posted by templarga

What I hate about WOW is that so many people think WOW is the greatest problem in our world today, they will continuously argue about why WOW is so bad. Who the hell cares? I wish people would get this upset and motivated about the issues of the day and the problems of our world (like hunger and poverty) and would use their time to fix those problems instead of arguing about a video game like it really matters.

Wow isn't for everyone. If you don't like it, fine...move on. It is just a game and in the end, all that matters is that the people playing it, enjoy it.

Getting upset and posting on an Internet forum anonymously is hardly what I'd call motivated.

Honestly now, the majority of the "free world" lives in a fantasy world; but this is hardly the place for such discussions.

Originally posted by NightbladeX1

World of Warcraft is a game, Calindor. That game is our enemy. But when you're inside, you look around, what do you see? Businessmen, teachers, lawyers, carpenters. The very minds of the people we are trying to save. But until we do, these people are still a part of that game and that makes them our enemy. You have to understand, most of these people are not ready to be unplugged. And many of them are so inured, so hopelessly dependent on the game, that they will fight to protect it.

 

It's almost disturbing how well the above fits in with this game.

Look in the mirror lately?

Originally posted by templarga

What I hate about WOW is that so many people think WOW is the greatest problem in our world today, they will continuously argue about why WOW is so bad. Who the hell cares? I wish people would get this upset and motivated about the issues of the day and the problems of our world (like hunger and poverty) and would use their time to fix those problems instead of arguing about a video game like it really matters.

Wow isn't for everyone. If you don't like it, fine...move on. It is just a game and in the end, all that matters is that the people playing it, enjoy it.

How would you describe fighting the problem? Picketting in front of Blizzard's HQ? And it is a problem, becaue its dumbing down the rest of the games because devs are afraid to try something different...and yes that might not be Blizzards fault, but WoW still created the problem.

I guess the most you can do is educate the blissful WoW players who have never tried another game.

Look in the mirror lately?

___________________
 

Wut

Wow, people really have little reading comprehension anymore or just choose to read what they want too. What I am saying is that people spend so much TIME complaining about WOW and arguing back and forth about how it is the greatest game or the worst game, and in the grand scheme of things, it really does not matter.

If people would spend the same amount of time and energy focusing on the issues that really matter (in other words re-direct their anger/time/energy to something that effects us as a society) instead of acting like WOW is the greatest problem in the world today, then maybe some problems would get some assistance.  Seriously, that much hate towards a game isn't healthy. After all, it is just a game.

Originally posted by templarga

Wow, people really have little reading comprehension anymore or just choose to read what they want too. What I am saying is that people spend so much TIME complaining about WOW and arguing back and forth about how it is the greatest game or the worst game, and in the grand scheme of things, it really does not matter.

If people would spend the same amount of time and energy focusing on the issues that really matter (in other words re-direct their anger/time/energy to something that effects us as a society) instead of acting like WOW is the greatest problem in the world today, then maybe some problems would get some assistance.  Seriously, that much hate towards a game isn't healthy. After all, it is just a game.

Time does not equate to effort. Use basic logic before stepping up to the soap box. Sitting on a forum and insulting a game is not equal to say, protesting outside at the republican convention.

Moving on, you assume an awful lot about people you don't know. How can you be so sure that the people posting here aren't politically and socially active? Whining about whining in the end, is still whining.

HOW ABOUT UZ USE THAT EFFORTZ TO SAFE BLACK PEEOPLEZ IN DARFUR>

See how easy that was?

Originally posted by NightbladeX1

Originally posted by templarga

Wow, people really have little reading comprehension anymore or just choose to read what they want too. What I am saying is that people spend so much TIME complaining about WOW and arguing back and forth about how it is the greatest game or the worst game, and in the grand scheme of things, it really does not matter.

If people would spend the same amount of time and energy focusing on the issues that really matter (in other words re-direct their anger/time/energy to something that effects us as a society) instead of acting like WOW is the greatest problem in the world today, then maybe some problems would get some assistance.  Seriously, that much hate towards a game isn't healthy. After all, it is just a game.

 

Time does not equate to effort. Use basic logic before stepping up to the soap box. Sitting on a forum and insulting a game is not equal to say, protesting outside at the republican convention.

 

Moving on, you assume an awful lot about people you don't know. How can you be so sure that the people posting here aren't politically and socially active? Whining about whining in the end, is still whining.

HOW ABOUT UZ USE THAT EFFORTZ TO SAFE BLACK PEEOPLEZ IN DARFUR>

 

See how easy that was?

Actually, the argument is very logical. If people are going to get that upset over a game, I seriously doubt they will spend the time arguing about things that matter. I volunteer hundreds of hours a year and donate a lot of money to the causes that matter to me. You do not see me posting here that WOW or any other games are as bad as they are made out to be. People rarely will devote this much effort to multiple causes and if their time is dominated by their obsessive hate of a video game, then they will most likely not spend the time on other issues.

And yes time does equal effort. People who think different rarely volunteer their time and energy or expect non-profits to work well without their time and energy. Helping others is all about time and committment; however today people think by giving $10 to a charity it equals what volunteering for a few hours would mean. I would rather have 10 volunteers on any given day than $100 donation. Talk to most charities and non-profits and they will tell you than most of the time, people's time and energy is a lot more needed/important/valuable than money.

Originally posted by templarga

Originally posted by NightbladeX1

Originally posted by templarga

Wow, people really have little reading comprehension anymore or just choose to read what they want too. What I am saying is that people spend so much TIME complaining about WOW and arguing back and forth about how it is the greatest game or the worst game, and in the grand scheme of things, it really does not matter.

If people would spend the same amount of time and energy focusing on the issues that really matter (in other words re-direct their anger/time/energy to something that effects us as a society) instead of acting like WOW is the greatest problem in the world today, then maybe some problems would get some assistance.  Seriously, that much hate towards a game isn't healthy. After all, it is just a game.

 

Time does not equate to effort. Use basic logic before stepping up to the soap box. Sitting on a forum and insulting a game is not equal to say, protesting outside at the republican convention.

 

Moving on, you assume an awful lot about people you don't know. How can you be so sure that the people posting here aren't politically and socially active? Whining about whining in the end, is still whining.

HOW ABOUT UZ USE THAT EFFORTZ TO SAFE BLACK PEEOPLEZ IN DARFUR>

 

See how easy that was?

Actually, the argument is very logical. If people are going to get that upset over a game, I seriously doubt they will spend the time arguing about things that matter. I volunteer hundreds of hours a year and donate a lot of money to the causes that matter to me. You do not see me posting here that WOW or any other games are as bad as they are made out to be. People rarely will devote this much effort to multiple causes and if their time is dominated by their obsessive hate of a video game, then they will most likely not spend the time on other issues.

And yes time does equal effort. People who think different rarely volunteer their time and energy or expect non-profits to work well without their time and energy. Helping others is all about time and committment; however today people think by giving $10 to a charity it equals what volunteering for a few hours would mean. I would rather have 10 volunteers on any given day than $100 donation. Talk to most charities and non-profits and they will tell you than most of the time, people's time and energy is a lot more needed/important/valuable than money.

In one ear, out the other. Time does not equal energy. You cannot possibly be suggesting that posting on a forum takes a comparable effort to say, doing volunteer work. Don't worry though, the little fantasy world where things like WoW matter, surrounding those living in a comfortable lifestyle will break down soon enough.

Originally posted by templarga 

Actually, the argument is very logical. If people are going to get that upset over a game, I seriously doubt they will spend the time arguing about things that matter. I volunteer hundreds of hours a year and donate a lot of money to the causes that matter to me. You do not see me posting here that WOW or any other games are as bad as they are made out to be. People rarely will devote this much effort to multiple causes and if their time is dominated by their obsessive hate of a video game, then they will most likely not spend the time on other issues.

And yes time does equal effort. People who think different rarely volunteer their time and energy or expect non-profits to work well without their time and energy. Helping others is all about time and committment; however today people think by giving $10 to a charity it equals what volunteering for a few hours would mean. I would rather have 10 volunteers on any given day than $100 donation. Talk to most charities and non-profits and they will tell you than most of the time, people's time and energy is a lot more needed/important/valuable than money.

I tend to agree Templarga.  Cristism is both fine and welcomed, but the obsessive hate makes me believe that such people are mentally deficient.  WoW is simply a game, and not the destroyer of worlds or any mix of hyperbole typically hurled at Blizzard.

Btw ... as someone who's worked with npos across the globe ... don't feel bad about sending in those dollars.  : )

Originally posted by IcoGames

I tend to agree Templarga.  Cristism is both fine and welcomed, but the obsessive hate makes me believe that such people are mentally deficient.  WoW is simply a game, and not the destroyer of worlds and any mix of hyperbole typically hurled at Blizzard.

Btw ... as someone who's worked with npos across the globe ... don't feel bad about sending in those dollars.  : )

QFT. When people start harbouring such bitter hatred toward a GAME they really need to re-evaluate their lives. WoW makes an easy scapegoat for the current state of the industry, but instead of going and doing something else, they gather together like a group of wizened old crones cackling about 'the state of the industry' and 'how things were better in our day'.

That's life I'm afraid. You can either sit around and let it eat you up inside or accept it and move on.

Originally posted by Zayne3145

Originally posted by IcoGames

I tend to agree Templarga.  Cristism is both fine and welcomed, but the obsessive hate makes me believe that such people are mentally deficient.  WoW is simply a game, and not the destroyer of worlds and any mix of hyperbole typically hurled at Blizzard.

Btw ... as someone who's worked with npos across the globe ... don't feel bad about sending in those dollars.  : )

 

QFT. When people start harbouring such bitter hatred toward a GAME they really need to re-evaluate their lives. WoW makes an easy scapegoat for the current state of the industry, but instead of going and doing something else, they gather together like a group of wizened old crones cackling about 'the state of the industry' and 'how things were better in our day'.

That's life I'm afraid. You can either sit around and let it eat you up inside or accept it and move on.

This site is filled with "old school" MMO players who loathe WoW with the intensity of a thousand burning suns.

The problem is not really WoW the game.

Let me be clear, I have played and enjoyed WoW.  There are aspects of it I don't like, but plenty of aspects of it I do like.

The problem as I see it is the rest of the industry's seeming obsession with WoW's success, and their attempts to duplicate it without understanding why it is such a phenomenon.  Take for example SWG's NGE, which slavishly copies graphical and gameplay elements of WoW, but in a typically broken SOE manner.  SOE doesn't get that polish and ease of play are key elements of WoW's success.  Instead they focus on superficial aspects.

WoW EXPANDED the MMO market, but when you've got MBAs obsessed with "market share" as a measure of success, they can't comprehend what has happened.  The profit numbers aren't necessarily down, but they have smaller slices of the pie even though the pie has expanded.  They're getting as much actual  pie as before, perhaps more, but they are stuck looking at a pie chart that says they're smaller. They all think they have to get some part of WoW's playerbase to succede, so they have to be like WoW to succede.

Thus the industry settles into a rut.

It's not really WoW's fault, or Blizzard's fault, that the rest of the industry can't see anything but them.

But it's the thing I hate most about WoW.  The blinding light of it.

Originally posted by SioBabble 

 

This site is filled with "old school" MMO players who loathe WoW with the intensity of a thousand burning suns.

 

The problem is not really WoW the game.

Let me be clear, I have played and enjoyed WoW. There are aspects of it I don't like, but plenty of aspects of it I do like.

The problem as I see it is the rest of the industry's seeming obsession with WoW's success, and their attempts to duplicate it without understanding why it is such a phenomenon. Take for example SWG's NGE, which slavishly copies graphical and gameplay elements of WoW, but in a typically broken SOE manner. SOE doesn't get that polish and ease of play are key elements of WoW's success. Instead they focus on superficial aspects.

WoW EXPANDED the MMO market, but when you've got MBAs obsessed with "market share" as a measure of success, they can't comprehend what has happened. The profit numbers aren't necessarily down, but they have smaller slices of the pie even though the pie has expanded. They're getting as much actual pie as before, perhaps more, but they are stuck looking at a pie chart that says they're smaller. They all think they have to get some part of WoW's playerbase to succede, so they have to be like WoW to succede.

Thus the industry settles into a rut.

It's not really WoW's fault, or Blizzard's fault, that the rest of the industry can't see anything but them.

But it's the thing I hate most about WoW. The blinding light of it.

 

Just because studios have tried, and failed, to copy what Blizzard has done isn't a rational reason to give any grief what so ever to Blizzard.   It's not reasonable for me to blame you because I've failed trying to copy what made you successful.

Besides, I think most people can admit the rageahol here isn't as well thought out as your post Siobable.  I'd be willing to wager most of WoW's detractors are playing the game happily. 

Originally posted by Zayne3145

Originally posted by IcoGames

I tend to agree Templarga.  Cristism is both fine and welcomed, but the obsessive hate makes me believe that such people are mentally deficient.  WoW is simply a game, and not the destroyer of worlds and any mix of hyperbole typically hurled at Blizzard.

Btw ... as someone who's worked with npos across the globe ... don't feel bad about sending in those dollars.  : )

 

QFT. When people start harbouring such bitter hatred toward a GAME they really need to re-evaluate their lives. WoW makes an easy scapegoat for the current state of the industry, but instead of going and doing something else, they gather together like a group of wizened old crones cackling about 'the state of the industry' and 'how things were better in our day'.

That's life I'm afraid. You can either sit around and let it eat you up inside or accept it and move on.

The whole "I hate Wow because of" thread is just tired anyway.  The game was great.  Lot's of people are still playing while a lot (like myself) have moved on.  It's easy to pick apart something that you have spent thousands of hours in simply because you are bored of it.  99.9% of the haters spent thousands of hours enjoying the game before they got bored with it.  The reality is, it's a very easy target.  Why?  Because everything else since than has been pretty lackluster.

And I agree, the whole EQ1/UO were better crowd are just tired as well.  I played all those games, from early UO on.  They were not better.  Any objective person would agree.  Though UO was the most fun I had in an MMO to date, it was not a BETTER game than WoW.

Boring thread overall.

Originally posted by Zayne3145

Originally posted by IcoGames

I tend to agree Templarga.  Cristism is both fine and welcomed, but the obsessive hate makes me believe that such people are mentally deficient.  WoW is simply a game, and not the destroyer of worlds and any mix of hyperbole typically hurled at Blizzard.

Btw ... as someone who's worked with npos across the globe ... don't feel bad about sending in those dollars.  : )

 

QFT. When people start harbouring such bitter hatred toward a GAME they really need to re-evaluate their lives. WoW makes an easy scapegoat for the current state of the industry, but instead of going and doing something else, they gather together like a group of wizened old crones cackling about 'the state of the industry' and 'how things were better in our day'.

That's life I'm afraid. You can either sit around and let it eat you up inside or accept it and move on.

This is a freaking internet message board for discussing MMO's. You need to re-evaluate your life and figure out how you can come to such proposterous conclusions over such mundane things...You must live an extremely over critical life.

---

Originally posted by Waterlily

---

Originally posted by Sovrath

That is why WoW is popular, because people were not interested in many of the aspects of the older games, WoW then made them more bearable and this ended up opening up the genre for new players.
 

---

 
*cough* No.
WoW is popular because it's the paradigm of an accesible MMO, targetted at a broad audience where only time is a requirement to advance.
Grinding quests is no more bearable than grinding in older games . I would argue it's a lot worse to Quest-Grind than it is to form a party and socialise.
Of course if you play WoW you wouldn't know this because there's no need to group in WoW.

---

Yes, exactly so.

Also, I hate the gear in WoW. Gear is everything. I hate this.

Wow is what happens when Carebear raiding guilds take over the game, no one is ever on because they are all safe in the instanced dungeon area, when they are not there they are in town being safe. They get their gear, and raid.. and.. nothing else. Then god forbid other players want to do something else (pvp), then  the Carebears flare up like hemroids. Since WOTLK most of the good pvpers are in other games like Guild Wars or Asherons Call or still slogging it out in WoW to bide the time, but if anything UO caliber for PVP comes out then the parties gonna be over when WoW looses a few mil subscribers. I know Carebears don't think that can happen but......... thats why their Carebears.

Originally posted by Calind0r

Originally posted by Zayne3145

Originally posted by IcoGames

I tend to agree Templarga.  Cristism is both fine and welcomed, but the obsessive hate makes me believe that such people are mentally deficient.  WoW is simply a game, and not the destroyer of worlds and any mix of hyperbole typically hurled at Blizzard.

Btw ... as someone who's worked with npos across the globe ... don't feel bad about sending in those dollars.  : )

 

QFT. When people start harbouring such bitter hatred toward a GAME they really need to re-evaluate their lives. WoW makes an easy scapegoat for the current state of the industry, but instead of going and doing something else, they gather together like a group of wizened old crones cackling about 'the state of the industry' and 'how things were better in our day'.

That's life I'm afraid. You can either sit around and let it eat you up inside or accept it and move on.

 

This is a freaking internet message board for discussing MMO's. You need to re-evaluate your life and figure out how you can come to such proposterous conclusions over such mundane things...You must live an extremely over critical life.

Heh ... I see that you finaly agree. 

OP

Seriously... You are 21 years old. You were not even old enough to use a keyboard or write your name when MMOs started... So please do not come to an MMORPG site and start a thread like you are the official authority in MMO history and the rest of MMO players of the world are kids, ok? I was there when MMOs started... I have been playing them all for 15-20 years now... I have worked together with several of the heavy contenders in the business (and honestly, some that could not contend with a wet paper bag)

To quote the developers of EQ II for example, two months after launch of WoW: "I play and enjoy WoW a lot, and we see now a lot of things that we could have done differently in EQ II"

But yeah.. these guys you call "childish and noobs" WoW might be many things, good and bad... But its not kiddie business. You on the other hand... *smirk*

Originally posted by Kasimir

OP

Seriously... You are 21 years old. You were not even old enough to use a keyboard or write your name when MMOs started... So please do not come to an MMORPG site and start a thread like you are the official authority in MMO history and the rest of MMO players of the world are kids, ok? I was there when MMOs started... I have been playing them all for 15-20 years now... I have worked together with several of the heavy contenders in the business (and honestly, some that could not contend with a wet paper bag)

To quote the developers of EQ II for example, two months after launch of WoW: "I play and enjoy WoW a lot, and we see now a lot of things that we could have done differently in EQ II"

But yeah.. these guys you call "childish and noobs" WoW might be many things, good and bad... But its not kiddie business. You on the other hand... *smirk*

i lol'd

Originally posted by Zorndorf

Originally posted by Faelsun

Wow is what happens when Carebear raiding guilds take over the game, no one is ever on because they are all safe in the instanced dungeon area, when they are not there they are in town being safe. They get their gear, and raid.. and.. nothing else. Then god forbid other players want to do something else (pvp), then  the Carebears flare up like hemroids. Since WOTLK most of the good pvpers are in other games like Guild Wars or Asherons Call or still slogging it out in WoW to bide the time, but if anything UO caliber for PVP comes out then the parties gonna be over when WoW looses a few mil subscribers. I know Carebears don't think that can happen but......... thats why their Carebears.

 

Again someone who doesn't have a clue who plays Wow and how you can play it.

"There are more PvP players in Wow than any and all other MMORPG's combined.".

It is the only MMORPG with a decent e-sport competition (and sponsored with REAL price money). In Wow  the best PvP players have  a chess ELO like rating based gear system. This is a high competition based on a ladder. You can't find anything else in the MMORPG world.

Highest PvP gear based on a competitive ladder system. No highest rating, No highest PvP gear. Carebear my ass.

Gaining a PvP season title in Wow can give you a unique title among a complete cluster of servers. Being the best of say 200.000 or 250.000 players (20 servers competition in one Battlegroup) is something that simply can't be offered in other MMORPG's. And in Wow you get at least rewarded of being the best.

LOL those other Fantasy MMO's don't even have 250K players to be the champ of and they don't have a competitive rating system either

All this is being dwarfed of course by the sheer fact that Wow is the ONLY fantasy MMORPG where the avatars do NOT have a stick in their arse and at least can be controlled by their players like a kind of FPS. Which is (and even the most rabid Wow haters have to admit this) is unique in the MMORPG land.

 

 

WoW hasn't had PvP since 2006, Arena's are about as much PvP as a game of Counter-Strike, and plenty of other games have had similar competitions. You obviously know nothing about MMO's if you think "those others" dont have 250k players, I bet you couldnt even describe the PvP system or end game in any other MMO besides WoW...plus I don't care much for paying monthly to be put in arenas and instances, especially with people who aren't even ont he same server as me. And all our favourite RPG games were controlled like shooters right?

the things i hate about the game...and this all has probly been said is simple.

too many references. a few little "winks" to other things is fine..but blizzard pretty much took a crap of pop culture references in this game.

the noobs who try to PVP, i normally play on a PVE server(draka) but when i duel or go to battlegrounds there is one type of player i cant stand..the noobs who run around the target, jump over and shit like that...if your going to try to kill a player, have the balls to fight them face to face, even my WARLOCK! isent that much of a pussy..hell, i rarely even fear unless i have too

the graphics look like a bad disney movie, yea..they probly did it so more people could play and run the game on their computers..but you should have an option of haveing those shitty graphics or not.