Originally posted by skydragonren

 There I saved everyone 14 pages of reading.

Except you forget the fact that 8 out of 10 users on this site will click "Quote" on the OP no matter the length of it and no matter if they have read it or not and start projectile vomiting onto their keyboard and hope it makes sense.  In a not-so-rare occasion they will also hit up dictionary.com so they can use superflous fluff words (kind of like I did with superflous - catch that irony?) to make themselves appear well-read.  Appear. 

You did save me from reading it though, I was almost bored enough to read it.

Originally posted by skydragonren

Ok, I haven't posted since page 2 of this jewel of a thread.

Sigh, I just read through all 14 pages or so....

So here is the recap,

First, Tyvolus please just stop posting, It's cool if you want to post in some other war thread, but in this particular thread, it is not a very good idea anymore, you have been owned by so many people so far that I would consider a new account and name change. Poppin, WSIMike and Almerel, pretty much have had you on lock down since you began posting.

I even went so far as to take every single post you made from this thread and stuck them into wordpad, so I can post them all at one time if needed. I must say though that if I did, it would only make matters worse for you.

PS Ty, Calling people frodo, telling people Arthus is their hero, and telling people they are ignorant, after some of the post you have made, is a very very poor decision.

 

Second, Poppin, your post are good and well articulated. They make sense, I am pretty sure everyone understands them. Only thing I would do different is to stop even typing back to Tyvulos. The guys doesn't get it and is not likely to anytime soon. Just leave him be, if he wants to float around the forums in a make believe world who are we to stop him.

 

Third, WSIMike, typically plays devils advocate in most forums, and can always counter a post. It doesn't matter if it is good or bad, he can counter it. Which makes for good debates which is what forums are typically about.

 

Last, Xhieron's post should really be the only post on a thread like this. It was the most well written and intelligent post I have read in the thread so far. Not only in the thread on mmorpg in a long time. Xhieron spoke the truth, and his points on WOW vs WAR are the true heart of the matter.

 

There I saved everyone 14 pages of reading.

you didnt offer cookies and milk tho :(

Originally posted by neonwire

Sorry Wintermute but Popinjay & Maxnrosy are correct. There really is no comparison between the PvP in EVE and WAR. In EVE you can fight battles that actually have a purpose to them which might have a strategical or financial reason behind them. In EVE you can ask the question "Why is this war being fought?" and there is a very good chance that you will get a sensible answer. The same cannot be said for WAR.

In WAR the PvP battles dont mean anything. There is nothing to be gained or lost by winning or losing a Keep which obviously is why many people dont bother with the open RvR and ultimately why people dont bother with the game period. There is absolutely no risk vs reward in WAR so whats the point?

The reason WAR gets compared to WoW so much is simply because Mythic blatantly tried to copy its "magic formulae" and failed. The similarities between the two games are unavoidable. It might have been more successful if the PvP was integrated into the core part of the game but it simply wasnt. WAR was NOT built around PvP. It was built around the same PvE game design that WoW was and then the PvP playpens were added as an optional method of gaining levels......because thats all WAR is about......gaining levels......just like WoW. There is no war in WAR.......there is merely yet another level grinding treadmill just like there is in any PvE game.......like WoW.

Here's what he said:

The game is built on PvP, yet they can't get the basic idea that there should be some consequence to your lack of playing skill or teamwork... It gets so old doing this over/over and no challenge to die and run back. Read around.. biggest complaint about the fighting.

Here's what I said:

...the mere act of dieing itself is usually what changes the balance of fights. Look at the Nordenwatch Fort scenario, as an example, the team with less skill or teamwork (other things being equal) is the one that starts losing people first. Sure, those people can run back into the fight, but it will be too late. Their group is likely to have lost the fight and actually ends up having to play "catch up" the rest of the game which is a severe handicap.

That situation is just as true in open RvR. Being able to run back into the fight is meaningless if the strength/synergy of your group has been dismantled.

Now.

Losing a fight/skirmish/keep IS the consequence. If you play EvE, that might not be enough consequence for you, but that IS a consequence.

I'm not going to argue you about the "why is this war being fought" question because that's not what I was addressing.

No Wyntermute, this is what I said that you quoted in box:

---

War is stupid in this regard. Run to zerg a keep, die. Meh, I'll just run back again. Dead. Dang, Ill just run back again right away. (or did they change this now?) On both sides this is the case. It's really a no brainer. The game is built on PvP, yet they can't get the basic idea that there should be some consequence to your lack of playing skill or teamwork. This is another reason people leave. It gets so old doing this over/over and no challenge to die and run back. Read around.. biggest complaint about the fighting.

---

And this was your response to that:

---

If you are correct, then EvE is stupid in this regard as well. You die, reclone and run back in a new ship. People do it all the time. If you knew anything about WAR you'd know that the mere act of dieing itself is usually what changes the balance of fights. Look at the Nordenwatch Fort scenario, as an example, the team with less skill or teamwork (other things being equal) is the one that starts losing people first. Sure, those people can run back into the fight, but it will be too late. Their group is likely to have lost the fight and actually ends up having to play "catch up" the rest of the game which is a severe handicap.

That situation is just as true in open RvR. Being able to run back into the fight is meaningless if the strength/synergy of your group has been dismantled.

Poopinjay, your posts contribute nothing of value to people who are interested in or play Warhammer. Any reason you post here other than to try and cheese people off?

---

Now as you read this, you don't see your post as inflammatory, incorrect and misrepresentive? And no, I am not trying to start some "war" between factions lol. You made this statement.. I didn't even bring Eve into the picture here. Can you please keep things in the proper order so a 'discussion' can happen other than "he said" "I said"?

This is not meant as a flame to you so you can replace someone else I was yakking with in this thread, just showing you how your post is written in context.

Another pointless post by you.

Read my last post.

I think the Risk vs. Reward discussion is one worth having. Personally though, I don't think WAR is ever going to offer major rewards for players because there's just no situation where the risk will be extreme.

Losing your capital city is pretty bad though. Maybe for those who have experienced such a thing, the loss was punishment enough. I have yet to see it happen personally, though.

Originally posted by Tyvolus1

Originally posted by popinjay

 

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I stopped reading at nonsensical. dude, dont try and impress us with how smart you think you are. Why dont you print this post and show your teacher you use what she is teaching you in class on internet message boards ? She might be impressed, I am not.

---

 

Dang, and I so wanted to 'impress' you of all people. Oh well.

Well, I guess theres no Open RvR on right now. Tyvolous is posting again.
 

well, I need to go to work soon and most importantly, I play WAR and therefore it is kind of well...normal to hang out on the message boards of a game I play, to kind of you know, check in on the community and my fellow WAR players to see what new, what is interesting and going on in the game.  Does that make any sense to you ?  I play WAR, I visit WAR forums and WAR gaming sites.  Let that sink in for a minute or two.  You dont play WAR, but you dont have enough going on in the games you do supposedly enjoy to tear you away form the forums of a game you dont like.  Maybe this helps you realize how silly it looks for people like you to spend so much time here.  I am truly sorry grinding for gear in wow isnt interesting enough to tear you away from the WAR forums.  But as I said, I play WAR...This is the WAR forums...ummm, get it ?
 

Here's the thing though man.  I'm noticing quite a number of new accounts in this thread who don't yet really understand what this site is about.  As Stradden has made very clear in the past mmorpg.com is NOT a fansite.  These sub forums are not fan boards.  He's admitted that even developers have contacted him in the past due to people being free to voice whatever opinion they have of a game without being moderated.  He basically tells them "oh well, thats mmorpg".

If you have played a game and think it completely sucked you are more than welcome to make negative posts for years as long as you at least try to make half decent arguments and not just get a rise out of people.  Doesn't matter if you still play a game or not. 

Just thought it should be cleared up for the newer members that this site is not another WHA, VN's etc where negativity is moderated.  If that kind of stuff truly pisses you off this may not be the community for you.

Originally posted by Zorndorf But the end conclusion stays the same: we are talking MMORPG's here.

Originally posted by WSIMike

Originally posted by Zorndorf

 

Of course Wow came first. ... about 4 years.

Or do you think otherwise ? LOL

 

 

Well, if we're talking World of Warcraft versus Warhammer Online, then yes.. WoW came first.

However, the point I'm sure Ty is making that the Warhammer IP was created long before Warcraft and, in fact, Warcraft borrows significantly from Warhammer. In that case, he is correct.

 

I didn't know IP was a ...game.

While your intended sarcasm is noted, did I ever say or imply that an IP =  a game?

Given the context and deliberate separation from "game specific" and "IP specific" responses in my post, I find it impossible to believe you seriously think I was mistaking one for the other.

So, I give your little opening ditty a 'nice try' for blatant intellectual dishonesty.

This is a record so old it is becoming legitimate by old age even when it fails on all lines.

A record so old, yet is not necessarily known by everyone. There are still people who believe WoW started the MMORPG genre.

Yes, thank you. I know we are talking about MMORPGs here.

I was offering up each side of the equation because the answer to "which came first?" depends on whether you're talking about the MMORPGs themselves, or the lore they're based on.

But again, I think you knew that.

Believe it or not, there are still people who don't know that the Warhammer lore (IP) has been around a lot longer than Warcraft has, much less that Warcraft was derived from it. So my addressing each separately would actually be informative to such people.

So in this case, your sarcasm is unwarranted.

Originally posted by Wyntermute

Originally posted by popinjay

 

---

War is stupid in this regard. Run to zerg a keep, die. Meh, I'll just run back again. Dead. Dang, Ill just run back again right away. (or did they change this now?) On both sides this is the case. It's really a no brainer. The game is built on PvP, yet they can't get the basic idea that there should be some consequence to your lack of playing skill or teamwork. This is another reason people leave. It gets so old doing this over/over and no challenge to die and run back. Read around.. biggest complaint about the fighting.

If you are correct, then EvE is stupid in this regard as well. You die, reclone and run back in a new ship. People do it all the time.

Umm... Wow...

That is so far from the truth, I...
Assuming you've played it, have you ever actually died... at *all* in EvE?

You stand to lose any, or all, of the following:
- Your ship, which can cost millions of isk by itself.
- Your arsenal - weapons, shields, etc... which can also be quite a lot of isk.
- Your payload, if any... also possibly worth a pretty penny.
- If you're *really* unlucky... you can be pod killed, in which case, if your insurance isn't up to date... you lose potentially millions of SP.

So... the loss of potentially millions of isk and possibly accrued SP in EvE which all has to be replaced...

...compared to...

... the slight inconvenience of having to run back to where you died and jump back into the battle in WAR.

Someone who hasn't even played either game would see the difference there.

I was a Mythic fanboi myself. With the release of  Warhammer they made do a complete 360...I dislike the company for good now.

Originally posted by Tyvolus1

I love how the wow fanbois are always here on the WAR forums and not playing wow.  Really shows how fun wow must be.  And before anyone says anything stupid, I play WAR.  Blizz lost my $15 a month and Mythic is now getting it.  I will never sub to wow again (havent for months and months).  cookie cutter classes, scripted dungeons, raids raids and more raids, nerfed world pvp, horrible childish community, TUESDAY PATCHES that cost you a whole day of gaming, pvp sucks, you can run right through other PCS -- LOL !! --  hey for you guys who like world of kiddie-craft, have at it, you and the 10 million asian gold farmers go knock yourselves out.  I know you feel threatened about WAR, but thats what happens when your lives revolve around world of warcraft -- if anything comes along to threaten your game (your life) you get scared and defensive.  its just a game, and WAR is better.

but.... your always on the war forums and not playing war yourself???   duh?

Came across this thread while perusing the sight, and i have to admit, it's been entertaining.

And maybe throwing my 2 cents in makes me a troll or whatever, but i just figure I'd share my opinion.

Yes, I play WoW. Not my first MMO (that was FFOnline for Xbox360.) and yeah, I'm not an "old school" MMO gamer  as i think I've only really been playing MMO's for about 3 years now. But this is my take on the whole thing.

WoW I've found is if nothing else, solid. It's established. I'm pretty sure that I fall into the catagory of average WoW gamer because I have a couple of level 80's that have sub-perfect gear for raids as well as several alts I mess with from time to time.

I had the opportunity to run through the beta of WAR  toward the end of it's beta days and while I thought PQ's were pretty clever and the RvR had potential, it wasn't enough to take me away from what I had already invested in WoW.  And it wasn't bugs or lag or anything that irked me about it, it was just not different ENOUGH from WoW to tear me away from it. Yeah it's prettier...although i can't really appreciate it because my comp is crap, so I only saw the good graphics in screenshots. But the gameplay alone just didn't do it for me. I've already got WoW and I'm invested in it, so why would I just start over? And who knows maybe someday Mythic will do something with WAR that will revolutionize it's game, really set it apart from the crowd, but I can't imagine it's a terribly different game now from what I messed with in the beta.

Now on the flip side of things, back in WOW, I'll admit i was excited about the WotLK expansion. Yeah, I stood in line for it at midnight like 2 million other players. And after seeing all the big-badass gear and stuff from the BC xpac, my expectations were higher than ever. But then I came into WoW about 6 months after the release of BC, so all of it was new to me at that time. I'd be one of the pioneers this time, one of the guys everyone turns to with their questions about what they're about to run into. The guy everyone stands around in the public hubs, checking out my gear and asking where i got it.

Boy, was I surprised. After the first few quest rewards in WotLK I started to realize all this crap looked the same. Oh, different from the BC gear, sure, but in stead of a big-honkin' glowy sword, I had a big-honkin' Stone sword.  Wait....I went from glowy-shiny-alien looking gear.....to rocks and leathery looking stuff? As if the gnome plate wearers didn't look enough like footballs, now they were the same color too! They just had spikes! People didn't ask me about my gear because they were all wearing it too! And how can you "pioneer" or forge ahead when half your server is on the same quest you are and they're all trying to ninja one another!

And then the biggest shocker of all hit me...something I'm surprised hasn't been brought up in here, or if it did I missed it.

WotLK looked an awful lot....amazingly so....like the WAR beta I played but a few months earlier! Some people think that WAR ripped off WoW, but I think WoW ripped WAR right back. Visually anyway.

So, do I feel cheated? Not really. I'm aware it's all marketing. And besides I'm one of those people, as mentioned earlier in the thread, that's looking for a new game. But come on, seriously, who here really thinks that 10 years, ...hell, 5 years down the road you're going to be playing the same games you are today? None of us are truely LOYAL to any game, otherwise we'd all still be playing Mario and Sonic and arguing about Sega vs. Nintendo. 

I expect that eventually Blizzard is going to make a major bonehead  move and screw things up in WoW so completely that yes, half their fanbase will cancel their subs and run screaming for the hills, or a new game will come out that wil be so revolutionary that WoW gamers like me will ditch it like an ugly prom date. Or Armageddon will occur. But until such a time as that I still play WoW.

And if you play WAR awesome. If you play EVE, or AoC, or DAoC, EQ, SWG, hell....if you play Dofus, rock on. I hope you're having a good time, and those games continue to live up to the standards you expect of them.

Except FF11. People who play that are a bunch of asspipes. j/k

Crap, I went rambling there, didn't I? Meh, oh well. Laters!

---

Originally posted by izzy80
I wish I could read one post on this freakin forum where some WOW fanboi doesnt come in trying to hype up and defend Wowcrap as some incredible game.

---

Hey! It's another free advertisement for WoW! What makes WoW the two ton elephant in every other game's chat and forums?

Find out for yourself, WoW has a 10 day free trial:

wow 10 day free trial

I agree. War is a great game and what needs to be fixed gets fixed in time. It seems Mythic is listening to its player base which is a good thing and they seem to know the difference between kids screaming that one class is overpowered (WOW) and then getting the nerf bat and then making that class worthless. I am not a WAR fan boy, just an avid gamer and have played 100's of MMO's including WOW (4 yrs). War has its faults as well. My real problem with WOW is that they made it so that every retard or 12yr old can play it and they do. I enjoy game that take skill and not as gear based. WAR has better PVP (scaling lvls so that people have a fighting chance in the RvR is a brilliant idea). Also the abilty not to twink in pvp is awesome (If you need to spend a ton of time and money on getting one toon to X lvl and all the best gear for the lvl just to make up for your lack of being able to pwn someone with your skill of playing alone). WOW Fan boys are around because they love there "I hit 1 button and I own all" mentality. Just cause a game doesn't have 20+ raid end game (thank god) doesn't mean its a bad game.

The Guild progression system in WAR is great to. The more xp you gain the more it helps the guild (not just how much dick waving you can do for downing some raid boss). I think I have said enough (I could do this all day, but I am at work and must earn my pay).

"and remember kids, Don't be afraid to get killed in PVP (twinks this is for you), it isn't real life you do respawn".

for those who still belive wow is dying

source: www.kotaku.com

Two months after announcing the jump to 11 million subscribers, Blizzard has decided to start incrementing its milestones, announcing that the tally is now up to 11.5.

That extra .5 million is the focus of Blizzard's press release today, earning top billing over the much more impressive news that the Wrath of the Lich King sold 4 million copies in the first month, breaking the monthly PC sales record previously held by The Burning Crusade. Barring some sort of global awakening I suspect we can just save these press releases and change out the names and numbers once the next WoW expansion hits.

Sales of the core game and the World of Warcraft Burning Crusade Battle Chest also jumped during the month as Lich King mania drove more holdouts over the edge, helping bring in those extra 500 thousand subscribers so that Blizz could issue the press release version of a 6-month anniversary.

World of Warcraft® Subscriber Base Reaches 11.5 Million Worldwide
Wrath of the Lich King™ expansion fuels growth with record first-month sales of more than 4 million

IRVINE, Calif.—(BUSINESS WIRE)—Blizzard Entertainment, Inc. today announced that World of Warcraft®, its award-winning subscription-based massively multiplayer online role-playing game, is now played by more than 11.5 million subscribers worldwide. This new high was reached following the November 13 release of the game’s second expansion, Wrath of the Lich King™.

Within its first 24 hours of availability, Wrath of the Lich King sold more than 2.8 million copies, making it the fastest-selling PC game of all time. In addition to winning a number of editor’s choice awards from major gaming publications, the expansion has now gone on to sell more than 4 million copies in its first month, setting a new record for monthly PC-game sales. Both sales records were previously held by World of Warcraft’s first expansion, The Burning Crusade®.*

“We’re pleased to welcome the new and returning players who have helped World of Warcraft reach these new milestones, and we appreciate the enthusiasm and support that the game’s global community has continued to show,” said Mike Morhaime, CEO and cofounder of Blizzard Entertainment®. “We look forward to providing all of them with an excellent entertainment experience for a long time to come.”

“Not only is Wrath of the Lich King still doing well, the base World of Warcraft game and the World of Warcraft Battle Chest® are performing better than last year,” said Bob McKenzie, senior vice president of merchandising at GameStop. “That type of traction is very impressive for a game that is going into its fifth holiday season and speaks to the enthusiastic player base Blizzard Entertainment products have.”

To keep pace with the continued growth of World of Warcraft as well as development on other Blizzard Entertainment games, the company is currently hiring for numerous open positions. More information on available career opportunities can be found at www.blizzard.com/jobs. More information about the latest World of Warcraft expansion is available at the official Wrath of the Lich King website: www.worldofwarcraft.com/wrath.

World of Warcraft’s Subscriber Definition

World of Warcraft subscribers include individuals who have paid a subscription fee or have an active prepaid card to play World of Warcraft, as well as those who have purchased the game and are within their free month of access. Internet Game Room players who have accessed the game over the last thirty days are also counted as subscribers. The above definition excludes all players under free promotional subscriptions, expired or cancelled subscriptions, and expired prepaid cards. Subscribers in licensees’ territories are defined along the same rules.

sorry had to agitate the bees *runs away*

Originally posted by popinjay

 

Most of the comparing of Wow honestly, isn't being done by WoW fans. Take a look a the majority of posts on Warhammer forum here and elsewhere, like the OP. He is the one drawing a correlation between the two games and players. He didn't mention any other game other than AoC in passing, and not that AoC fans were flaming War. He's talking about WoW fans. Here, a War fan is doing the comparing.

There are a lot of War people who keep saying they like WAR better than WoW. Now again, that cool. But right there in there posts, THEY are comparing the two. Instead of simply saying "I like War for this/that" they would rather post usually "I like War cause it's not like Wow, it doesn't do this/this". Take a serious read on those posts. You'll see it. Most WoW fans stick to their own forums. Pre-release you had Warheads running into the WoW forums proclaiming gloom and doom with Warhammer's arrival, not the other way around.

 

Again, this is quite a few War fans who continue to draw the comparison. I don't even OWN WoTLK (nor am I buying it), but each time I mention something critical of WAR: "WoWboi, go back to your game" "LOTRO boy" lol. It's really comical that anytime someone says War has a problem, thats the tag. Even Paul Barnett, when you look back at interviews pre and post release, was taking countless shots at Blizzard at every chance. This was done to maximize the pub regarding Warhammer and to build some kind of rivalry, so people would think War was meant to rival Wow. Which is what Mythic intended all along, to rival Wow and steal customers. To not see this is really strange. You can go back and read all Paul Barnett's fighting words. Of course the Warheads (diehards) followed suit as anyone following would. Most Wow fans didn't even know Warhammer was a coming game, so why would they be threatened? They never heard of it or the Warhammer lore. ( I hadn't) I saw games like Warhammer 40k on PC, but never bought it and I certainly never played any of their tabletop dice games.

Warhammer is built around PvP yes. But thats part of the reason over 40% left... the actual fighting is ok, but there is no point to any of it. Just kill for no reason in a big mosh. There's no reason to fear death in this game. And if that's all their is when the PvE is boring and the crafting is a joke... what else would you do when the Pvp is rare and pointless when its actually going on?

In WoW, when you Pvp and die, they attach a death timer to you so you don't just respawn, run back to the battle and die again. Your'e some kind of ghostie thing who can't do anything but sit there. That time penatly increases the MORE you die, making you be more cautious.

War is stupid in this regard. Run to zerg a keep, die. Meh, I'll just run back again. Dead. Dang, Ill just run back again right away. (or did they change this now?) On both sides this is the case. It's really a no brainer. The game is built on PvP, yet they can't get the basic idea that there should be some consequence to your lack of playing skill or teamwork. This is another reason people leave. It gets so old doing this over/over and no challenge to die and run back. Read around.. biggest complaint about the fighting.

 

 

ok first off stop generalizing... secondly, you really dont know the game that well then, it is quite clear about that.  There is a penalty for dying in Warhammer.  You lose stats everytime you do.  and the concept in Warhammer is to WIN AREAS.  a hell of a lot more then any other game as of now.  so yes there is ton of purpose.
 

so this is where you dont know the game.  yet you keep telling everybody that its pointless.  I play LOTRO, i have a lifetime sub.  I play warhammer.  warhammer has a ton more reason to pvp then LOTRO and WOW.  and its not just personal gain.  Its also for your realm whether it be for your realm or for yourself you gaining on both.  SO the problem like i said for my original reasons still stand... you are a perfect example.

you think you know warhammer but dont.  You get all the info wrong.  I am still playing warhammer.  I know the game.  got questions about it, ask me?  I will tell you.  But for the love of all is holy, dont spread lies about the game and what its mechanics are or its gameplay when you arent even playing it right now.

you said that the OP started this all... actually he didnt if you read his first post again.  he simply was stating that WOW players need to stop bashing on Warhammer is what i read.  go play your WOW game and be happy with it.  There is no reason to come to warhammer threads and do it. 

and another misconception about you saying that warhammer fans start it.  Actually i do read a few forums and usually the Warhammer bashing starts with exWOW players who are unhappy with Warhammer.  THey have to let the world know they dont like WAR and start bashing it then begin to say they are going back to WOW and then the comparisons come out.

you are entitled to your opinions, I am sure you are gonna come back with something smart to say.  But you are wasting your breath.  as far as i can see for a LOTRO player, you are bashing on a game you really dont know what its about.  Since beta Warhammer has changed a LOT. 

again, warhammer is in its early stage.  it had a smooth launch, they have patched it up very well.  cant say it enough.  and the pvp is a neat idea.  it has a chance for you to win specific lands for your side.

and about how you are saying Warhammer was trying to aim at stealing customers from WOW, why not?  whats wrong with that... in our capitalist country we call that competition.  it happens in everyday life.  hell Vanguard once said they were there to challenge WOW and try to get some over to their game.  it happened.  They did.  But problem is we all know what happened to Vanguard. 

why do people feel like omg you cant compete with the giant WOW?  you are one of them too Poppin.  why not?  seriuosly.  who said blizzard shouldnt get some competition?  thats why tehre is more then one MMO out there.  thats like telling me that all other operating systems out there should just give up.  they will never make any money compared to Microsofts windows.  Yet they still seem to pump out different operating systems.  Maybe Mac should just quit because IBM compatible computers are just making more people buy theres instead of a MAC...

makes no sense to say stuff like that.  Its called competion.  you are saying it should be like a monopoly.  And to stick with what the OP said he is right.  There is no need for a WOW player to come to a warhammer forums and say anything.  Why?  you got your WOW game go play it.  I dont see you running over to Vanguard and bashing that game when WOW is mentioned.  hell not too long ago a guy quit stating he was going back to WOW.  hell in LOTRO i heard a guy over raid channel that he was quitting going to WOW because Turbine wont fix the moors.  this happens.  But again dont see other WOW players there willing to run to their forums and do the same they are doing to warhammer forums.

the only conclusion i can come up with is they feel some sort of animosity or threat?  dont know.  nobody will ever know.  Maybe its just people that love WOW so much they want the world to know.  Maybe they just like to argue.  they know WOW so well they feel they can argue anybody into the ground.  DO you truly know this poppin.  No you really dont and neitehr do i.

in anycase, its best for you guys to go back to LOTRO and WOW, or wherever other games you play and enjoy them.  Let the warhammer players enjoy theirs

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you are entitled to your opinions, I am sure you are gonna come back with something smart to say. But you are wasting your breath.

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Merry Christmas and Happy Chanukah, willvas!

and a very Merry Christmas to you poppin!

Aw, see? That's sweet. Kinda like the snoopy and the red baron song they play every year until my ears bleed.

A man on the street says "Happy Holidays"

I look at them and say "Screw you, it's Christmas!" 

In all fairness though....Happy Holidays to everyone playing an MMO