Pretty much agree with everything the OP said, with particular emphasis on the lack of consequences (not just in WAR but in every mmo).  PVP types can talk about strategy and tactics all they want, but the reality is the larger force wins, and no matter who wins, the losers are back to try again five minutes later.

This is an utterly pointless and neverending cycle. 

I understand PVP is an outlet for competitive personalities, but really, why not channel that competitiveness into the real world where you can have an impact instead of a tightly controlled game environment where nothing ever changes and you will be forgotten tomorrow.

PVP, and mmo's in general, are simple diversions, and no amount of rationalizing a particular playstyle will make them complex.  Until some company takes the time to make a true virtual world instead of a game, this will always be the case.

RE: the zerging.  I agree that zerging is the way that WAR is successfully played.  The zerg will usually win.  When I was subbed my guild was very well organized and had the ability to beat a zerg if we were not too out-numbered, but generally speaking WAR  is a game of zerging.  I found this to be a big turn off because I orginally thought Mythic would address this this strategy and have plenty of counter-measures.  I suppose when a game is based on capturing strategic points you can count on the zerg being the #1 strategy because there is no real good way to account for this issue. 

I suppose that is why I love skill-based, sandbox style games that aren't gear based because it is a pain to lose your gear and so people don't go on suicide zerg missions.  WAR is a good game for what it is going for though, I just never found it that stimulating personally.

Originally posted by berniebear

Originally posted by wintersclan

 Yes, it looks that way in T2, and T3, but that's for you to practice the BO/Keep take, and to understand the following the intricacies of the battle mechanics:

1. postern doors (guard these, or allow the enemy to bolster their defenses)
2. siege pads, and weapons (understand what they are for, and where they should be .....

 

the intricacies of battles? MUUUHAHAHA now THATS funny

Well, you'd be surprised to know a Keep/BO can be taken down by just a 5-6 man team in about 10-15 min for a Keep or 5-10 min for a BO, assuming Keep/BO has 0 or minimal resistance.    And if you haven't done that, taking a Keep/BO with just  5-6 man team, then you haven't really play WAR.     

OP has not been in T4, so I would take his comment with a grain of salt.     Once in T4, its really not about what you play, it's about how you play.   It's about knowing your toon's char, what they are built for, its about team work.   Most people don't realize the amount of coordination that would have to take place just to get the end-game content in WAR, the City Siege.   

PS: Yes, most peeps love zerging, because it is easy.   But a zerg can be beaten if they are not coordinated, and have low morale.    

Originally posted by Loke666

Originally posted by veritasall

Just one thing. About the 2:1 ratio of taking a keep, isn't that the way it should be? Isn't that why they were build in real life? So a smaller number of people can hold a larger army at bay?

 

You are wrong, the ratio to surely take a keep is 5:1 IRL(well, IRL a long time ago).

So actually WAR is making things very easy for the attacker here.

I wouldn't say WAR is a game for braindead, it is kinda easy entertainment off course but it still isn't anything for the retarded.

But what I really think needs to be done is implemented a system like in the game "Stronghold" were a guild holding a keep can rebuild it the way they want, that would make you want to defend your keep harder.

I quite like your idea, but do you think a dev team who can't make the chat box stay in the same place on exit, could accomplish something remotely intricate?

Originally posted by wintersclan

Originally posted by berniebear

Originally posted by wintersclan

 Yes, it looks that way in T2, and T3, but that's for you to practice the BO/Keep take, and to understand the following the intricacies of the battle mechanics:

1. postern doors (guard these, or allow the enemy to bolster their defenses)
2. siege pads, and weapons (understand what they are for, and where they should be .....

 

the intricacies of battles? MUUUHAHAHA now THATS funny

 

Well, you'd be surprised to know a Keep/BO can be taken down by just a 5-6 man team in about 10-15 min for a Keep or 5-10 min for a BO, assuming Keep/BO has 0 or minimal resistance.    And if you haven't done that, taking a Keep/BO with just  5-6 man team, then you haven't really play WAR.     

OP has not been in T4, so I would take his comment with a grain of salt.     Once in T4, its really not about what you play, it's about how you play.   It's about knowing your toon's char, what they are built for, its about team work.   Most people don't realize the amount of coordination that would have to take place just to get the end-game content in WAR, the City Siege.   

PS: Yes, most peeps love zerging, because it is easy.   But a zerg can be beaten if they are not coordinated, and have low morale.    

 

 

And that is where the game will fail, because most gamers these days don't have the time or the inclination to get involved in something that time consuming.

A City Siege should be something that is happening on a regular basis and available to both sides.

On my server, the chance of Order seeing IC is nil.  The game for these people becomes pointless, and I dare say this is the same on many servers in this game.

Originally posted by Elikal

I apologize for the catchy polemic, it's only half sincere, since I am subscribed to WAR atm myself, so calm down, its not personal.

Happy Christmas. ;)

 Merry Christmas. Yeah, I'm a douche bag for pointing it out, but I'm just trying to help you reach the point of complete fluency.

In any case, you keep bringing up the lack of sophistication of the game play, but there's a reason for it: The game was entirely designed around RvR, so that the individual's role is trivialized and the entire complexity lies in the group's strategy. In a way, it's very much like PvE, since the individual will almost always perform the same set of trivial actions for any given opponent; it's the coordination with other group members that matters the most.

Just quit the game and go back to WoW/EQ2, or something else that was designed around small group/arena PvP, since the mechanics will never change, nor could they without redesigning the entire game. I'm not trying to insult you, but I went back to WoW and I've never been happier; you really get an appreciation for all of the CC/interrupts/trinkets that make playing the genre interesting.

I agree wholeheartedly that it can be a game for the brain dead if you're not the person creating the raid  strategy and merely one of the peons playing your class as intended while taking the orders from the guild master.

A few words to say:WAR=Fails to impress me and many others after a while.

Have you all not realized that the post is made to merely troll?  Granted, it's quite an elaborate troll, but the OP has only responded to one post and that post was basically a mockery of the OP's intelligence... if he were seriously interested in any intellectual debate or responses he would've taken some of your posts to heart and made a response by now.

---

Granted, it's quite an elaborate troll, but the OP has only responded to one post and that post was basically a mockery of the OP's intelligence... if he were seriously interested in any intellectual debate or responses he would've taken some of your posts to heart and made a response by now.

---

He could have went on holiday already. It is TWO days before Christmas, in case you hadn't noticed lol. He might be doing something other than posting atm with his family or something.

Gotta give him the benefit of the doubt til at least after Xmas, friend.

Merry Xmas btw!

You are expecting too much from a game and also you are expecting too much from players.

If you want strategy, I suggest you to show some leadership and do the planning yourself. Don't call others to not have a strategy, when you yourself don't have. Strategy is something that needs to be invented by you, the player and not the game developer Mythic.

Originally posted by Spaceweed10

Originally posted by wintersclan

Originally posted by berniebear

Originally posted by wintersclan

 Yes, it looks that way in T2, and T3, but that's for you to practice the BO/Keep take, and to understand the following the intricacies of the battle mechanics:

1. postern doors (guard these, or allow the enemy to bolster their defenses)
2. siege pads, and weapons (understand what they are for, and where they should be .....

 

the intricacies of battles? MUUUHAHAHA now THATS funny

 ...

OP has not been in T4, so I would take his comment with a grain of salt.     Once in T4, its really not about what you play, it's about how you play.   It's about knowing your toon's char, what they are built for, its about team work.   Most people don't realize the amount of coordination that would have to take place just to get the end-game content in WAR, the City Siege.   

...

 

 

And that is where the game will fail, because most gamers these days don't have the time or the inclination to get involved in something that time consuming.

A City Siege should be something that is happening on a regular basis and available to both sides.

On my server, the chance of Order seeing IC is nil.  The game for these people becomes pointless, and I dare say this is the same on many servers in this game.

Yes, I have to agree.   And this is compounded by the fact, currently as it stands, there are just too many CTD and server crashes during large scale massive fortress sieges.    

I do have to disagree one thing, the turnround in zone locks by opposing factions has been increasing on a regular basis, at least on the 3 servers that I have my toons on.   I can only hope that this intensity and server stability improves.

Originally posted by cdeepal

You are expecting too much from a game and also you are expecting too much from players.

If you want strategy, I suggest you to show some leadership and do the planning yourself. Don't call others to not have a strategy, when you yourself don't have. Strategy is something that needs to be invented by you, the player and not the game developer Mythic.

True. Still strategy should really be a must to win a siege of a keep, sadly it ain't. And it kinda sucks when you put together a strategy and the other team don't so you always win easy, I want a challenge.

 WAR is essnetially a vacation retreat for those tired of playing WoW but who still want to play WoW.

Originally posted by BlueCadwal

Have you all not realized that the post is made to merely troll?  Granted, it's quite an elaborate troll, but the OP has only responded to one post and that post was basically a mockery of the OP's intelligence... if he were seriously interested in any intellectual debate or responses he would've taken some of your posts to heart and made a response by now.

Tbh, I have just said all I wanted. I read the replies, but usually 90% of all posts in forums are just different opinions. I am fine with that, why should I try to convert people? Its a waste of time anyway. All my arguments are there, in my post. If people dont share it, the only thing I could to is re-phrase the same content in other words. There just is nothing to add. All my points are made, you just really have to read it.

And a sidenote: did you really see anyone in a forum chance his opinion based on dabates? I didnt. I dont expect it. I just come here to share views, I am not interested to convince you of my opinion. I know many people love to go into long and deep arguments over games, but I find that mostly wasted time these days. I just lack the will to start fights over something as trivial as computer games, so I say my stuff and leave it with that, because I value my peace. In most cases it just leads to endless circles of anger and grief trying to defend your points. You make your points. People take it or leave it, thats all.

Originally posted by Elikal

Originally posted by BlueCadwal

Have you all not realized that the post is made to merely troll?  Granted, it's quite an elaborate troll, but the OP has only responded to one post and that post was basically a mockery of the OP's intelligence... if he were seriously interested in any intellectual debate or responses he would've taken some of your posts to heart and made a response by now.

 

Tbh, I have just said all I wanted. I read the replies, but usually 90% of all posts in forums are just different opinions. I am fine with that, why should I try to convert people? Its a waste of time anyway. All my arguments are there, in my post. If people dont share it, the only thing I could to is re-phrase the same content in other words. There just is nothing to add. All my points are made, you just really have to read it.

And a sidenote: did you really see anyone in a forum chance his opinion based on dabates? I didnt. I dont expect it. I just come here to share views, I am not interested to convince you of my opinion. I know many people love to go into long and deep arguments over games, but I find that mostly wasted time these days. I just lack the will to start fights over something as trivial as computer games, so I say my stuff and leave it with that, because I value my peace. In most cases it just leads to endless circles of anger and grief trying to defend your points. You make your points. People take it or leave it, thats all.

Forums don't change my opinion but they do influence it.  If someone has a post that seems to know what it is talking about and makes a point that I respect (agree or disagree) I will look for it in game and see if it seems to have more merit.

I may also ask other people's opinions in game about it.

Doom and gloom does not interest me.  Hatred nor love does not influence me.  That is just the typical politics of whatever.

Obviously I have to disqualitfy a large number of posts, but occasionally I get something worth paying attention too.  Or at the very least I can pick up on a trend.  Many times people talk about certain aspects of a game that i am completely ambivalent about like crafting.  I find porper filtration of forum muck to be useful for those things too.  You need a heavy duty filter though and a good BS detector.