Originally posted by Majestico

Yes, this is a leading question. 

I finally got a next-gen console and have been in heaven so far with Mass Effect, Fable II, Lost Odyessy, The Force Unleashed, and to a much lesser extent; Quake 4.

Now as you may be aware from my sig, my main MMO at the moment is Lotro.  Which I have noticed panders more and more towards the solo friendly player.  Now before anyone bombards me with posts about Lotro being a casual friendly game, etxc, I alreadt know this.  It was one of the reasons why I choose it.

However, I have noticed more and more that this 'casual' style of play has been getting morphed more and more into the solo play tag.

Whether by design or not, I just had to wonder why someone would choose to play an MMO mostly solo.

And please bear in mind that hear is where the question is aimed.  To those people who blindly ignore any other player, unless of course a quest is required.  Oh, you need a party to finish off an epic story, then I'll grab a PUG, say very little. if anything, and then bugger off when the quest is done.

Now, please do not answer with posts such as: 'well sometimes I like exploring and doing things on my own' that is very well, and I do it myself, or posts like 'well sometimes I only have an hour to play,'.  Or the classic; 'I like to play in a MMO by myself, and like the idea that the other people are real!' - shy people in an environment that is geared towards you throwing off any social inhibidtions and allowing you to be anyone you want!

So. strictly for those who I initially mentioned.  The ones always solo, unless they absoloute;y have to group.  Why?  Is it some competitive thing?  'Look I can get to max just by solo'.  What reason can there by that makes sense?

Of course, it is your game, and you are entitled to play it any way you choose.

But when I play so  many great single player games, I have to wonder the incentive for the solo gamer.

Serious answers will be appreciated, as I am genuinely interested.

Choice plan and simple, If I want a game that I can't beat in a week like the ones you named off then I go play a MMO, Now me and friend duo alot but there are times he is not on and I solo. It's my money if I want to spend it that way then I can, But if a game is not solo friendly I don't cry about it I just find another game. Now with that said there are way to many ppl out there that do cry about it and it is ruining the mmo market but with games like DF and Mortal coming I think we might be seeing a swing in the market but only time will tell.

People solo cause pugs suck most of the time and post-wow every mmo seem to favour soloing and the casuals compared to grouping and the hardcore players. Kind of a paradox though that people prefer to solo in an mmo.

Originally posted by slask777

People solo cause pugs suck most of the time and post-wow every mmo seem to favour soloing and the casuals compared to grouping and the hardcore players. Kind of a paradox though that people prefer to solo in an mmo.

pugs use to be cool but that was along time ago hehe UO and EQ they rocked tho you did get the jackass from time to time.

I will be looking for the hardcore players come DF and Mortal and will go back to grouping more but I will still try to solo in those to mostly as a PK hunter as in I hunted red PK's , did alot of that in UO and made lots of money and items and even scored me a couple of house's early on in the game that way lol.

I personally solo because I don't really have the time to wait around for a group when time is of the essence.

Having said that I grouped up for the first time in ages the other day and it turned out to be a fantastic group of people. I added all of them to my friends list and two of them joined my guild! Might start grouping more often...

 I solo a lot and personally prefer it. Let's me go t my own pace and allows me to live longer. Groups ALWAYS get me killed.

For group content of course I will group up if need be...but I have no problem passing content that I cannot get a group for.

Why would people always Group?

If there are plenty of activities  in RL that people manage quite happily on their own, why should MMOs be any  different? That just wasn't an invitation for rude jokes, well partially maybe.

Sometimes people don't have time to look for a group or there might not be enough other players around. They might have been in one that just disbanded & only have a short time left before they have to logout.

If the OP had asked 'Why do some People only ever Solo' that would be different, but everyone goes solo at least some of the time. OK you can laugh again now.

Why Do People Solo?

Hay, can you meet me on server "two shoes-RP" at 4:30 GMT, make sure you have the "AXE of armor soling" or we will have to do that quest first, and if you could, make sure you have potions:” Bobs a noob", "My Sword my life" and of course, "Run like a sissy" , 50000 gold should be enough for the 15 flight masters you will need to get to the "unrelated to what you are doing or any of your quests" area that I am in.

Don't forget to find a healer.

Honestly?  Because I don't use voice apps, and it seems that everyone who groups uses voice.  I don't want to be a burden to their method of playing, and I don't want to be put on the spot to have to explain why I don't use voice.

So I tend to play the only game I can: the solo game.  I like to chat using text, and I like pick up groups (even the bad ones), but I've accepted the fact that my decision to not use voice makes guilds and serious grouping impossible.

I'm not alone, which is why there are so many soloers.

        I think there are alot of reasons why people solo....

1) the games tend to cater to soloing now-Once these games started showing up wehre you could solo quests then it changed teh MMO genre.

2) Hassle- Yes grouping is a hassle and not everyone wants to have to deal with party members going AFK all the time.

3) Loot- You get all the loot solo...No sharing the spoils and no mage rolling on that plate chestpiece youve been trying to get.

4. Time- YOu can log in and play for an hour solo and get alot done in most games......Grouping you can hardly get anything done in an hour.

5. Most games dont offer alot of incentive to group.....

I like to solo, you can go wherever you want do anything you want , i dont have to go where the group wants to go.  I f it becomes to hard I will find one or two people to play for awhile and then split.  the only games I enjoyed grouping was City of Heroes and Guild Wars.  To me mmorpgs are not social oppertunities to meet people but a fun game to play and level, if i talk with someone that is fine it is not a big part of my game.  I dont join guilds or clubs, or lan parties , just here to have fun and soloing is alot of fun to me but like I said City of Heroes is more fun to group than solo

Why do people solo? Ever watch The Outlaw Josey Wales? Or maybe Gross Point Blanke?

I want to play in a world with other real people, I just don't want to always hold hands with them and skip down the Yellowbrick road to kill a dragon.

But sometimes I do want to join up with a posse and go smack something.

Here is my problem with the solo-vs-group argument:

Why are we mad at each other? I mean really.... what I want is a game that rewards me for grouping but doesn't punish me for soloing. A game where I can at least advance my character without assistance. Maybe I can't ever kill a big dragon on my own but at least I don't have to stand in a town, hat in hand, crying out for someone-anyone to help me get to level 3489. (sick of level grind - sorry)

I blame the game developers... there should be a way to reach a comfortable middle on this one.

Originally posted by Mrbloodworth

Why Do People Solo?

When I started playing WoW at the beginning of this year, I soloed 95% of the time. Why? Because there was no one to level up with. Everyone was 70 and if people leveled alts to 70, they did it earlier than that. There is one reason why people solo.

Originally posted by dterry

Why do people solo? Ever watch The Outlaw Josey Wales? Or maybe Gross Point Blanke?

I want to play in a world with other real people, I just don't want to always hold hands with them and skip down the Yellowbrick road to kill a dragon.

But sometimes I do want to join up with a posse and go smack something.

Here is my problem with the solo-vs-group argument:

Why are we mad at each other? I mean really.... what I want is a game that rewards me for grouping but doesn't punish me for soloing. A game where I can at least advance my character without assistance. Maybe I can't ever kill a big dragon on my own but at least I don't have to stand in a town, hat in hand, crying out for someone-anyone to help me get to level 3489. (sick of level grind - sorry)

I blame the game developers... there should be a way to reach a comfortable middle on this one.

Aye, these are all good and valid points, but my inquiry was not actually about people who mix and match their gaming, (which I do often).  It was to find out if people were solo-ing more than normal, and only grouping if required, as this has been my experience for a few months now, and it seems that more and more devs are designing their games to be played in this fashion.
 

My point is; I'm probably one of the most casual players you will come across.  When I do form groups, I do enjoy my game's session more on the whole, despite the gripes I mentioned in earlier posts.  Now I was not sure if it was just the games I play most; WoW and even moreso Lotro; but it was seeming to me that everbody was just solo-ing.  If this is true, then ultimately the genre will change.  But I thought to myself one night, why am I paying to play this?  I mean, MMORPG's should be the most imaginative and innovative games on the market, yet we get the same old crappy time-sink gameplay. game after game,  Everything in these games is engineered to take us ages to get anywhere - just so that we will keep playing, which in turn makes for banal, mundane games.   It's very frustrating. especially when you think what MMO's could be like in 10 years time or so (like espionage games which use photo-realistic and geographical cities - just an example, or virtual heade-sets that put you in the world), that kind of technology is coming, and this genre could be the best to put a use to it - (imagine a teamspeak, where your voice comes out as an orc's?).

However at the moment, I feel that the scene is stagnating, despite WoW's record sales.  Yes, I am a casual player, but I don't want my game to spoon feed me.  I mean, in the new expansion pack for Lotro- Mines of Moria, which is intended for level 50-60, I had entered Moria at level 46 and had done several quests, got to 47, done some more (all solo) before no more quest givers would give me any more until I am a higher level.  Far too easy, and so no need to group.  No grouping - less and less society - which leads to what?  People paying to play a banal game just to 'compete' with a bunch of strangers?  Jez - these dev's make their money easy.

my main MMO at the moment is Lotro.

I just had to wonder why someone would choose to play an MMO mostly solo.

Because it dosnt matter if you die anyway?

No risks, no rewards. Not even friends.

I'll generally solo more than not because I just dont feel like having to deal with other people's problems and want to get on with playing the game. Hate sitting around wasting gaming time waiting for some other person to get their act together. Also it tends to be easier to play if you dont have to worry about someone else aggroing stuff or just making mistakes.

And lastly, 99% of crafters are solo players in exactly the same way as someone who goes off to adventure solo. Both do their thing, then come back to town, hit the markets, deal with the community in some form or other, then go back to doing their thing.

Ummm I solo when my friends aren't online and I can't get a pug going.

Originally posted by PwnedSideway

When I started playing WoW at the beginning of this year, I soloed 95% of the time. Why? Because there was no one to level up with. Everyone was 70 and if people leveled alts to 70, they did it earlier than that. There is one reason why people solo.

Honestly, I'd say it would have to be your server.  Every time I've started a new character (which I do regularly), the beginning zones are teeming with other people leveling; either new players, or people like me rolling alts.

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Originally posted by Majestico
You keep refering to me having some sort of 'problem' trying to figure out about solo-ing.  Have you actually read any of my posts?

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Don't know about the guy you were talking to in that post, but the one that you addressed to me: yes I read your post, but something more than a geniune "I'm curious why..." came out of your question. TBH, it comes even off as underhanded.

If you truly love solo games, and must ask why solo games don't transfer well into MMOs, research the mechanics why (not ask why folks themselves want to play solo as an afterthought).

In solo games there's tons of hand tweaked AI (and it's getting better and better each year). For whatever reason MMO developers don't include that into MMOs, but instead code for basically a deathmatch encounter with a boss and his adds (probably because it's easier to code and keep up, and they want a squad or platoon to take down the beastie). This is what FPS games basically have, and that will tell you how and why MMOs have become FPS extensions (and poor ones at that).

Soloers have 1001 reason for not wanting to group, and because MMORPGs are suppose to be about character progression (not "lewtz" runs), more so. I don't want to spend my days racing through content, I want to spend them enjoying the FULL content (and not be left out for wanting too, either).

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Originally posted by randomt

And lastly, 99% of crafters are solo players in exactly the same way as someone who goes off to adventure solo. Both do their thing, then come back to town, hit the markets, deal with the community in some form or other, then go back to doing their thing.
 

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Amen.

If you're a dedicated crafter and seller, the game is a solo enterprise. When I played EQ2, the guild owner has 3 accounts, and that's about 30 crafters. He spends his days and nights leveling them, and has a goal of controlling the market (or most of it). That's his game. He chit chats, and sometimes comes out to help, but his game play is crafting and the market. Same can be said of countless others with a great tradeskill side to their MMO.

Still hoping for a MMO with a tradeskill side that's just as dedicated as the adventure side (with the best gear made by true professionals, not just anyone powerleveling), nor just tacked on as an afterthought to appease some crafters (and treating them like dirt with crappy stuff to make -- and thinking crafting is putting the mats inbetween mobs). :(

You always get the best loot if you solo..

Plus..if you do group with several people..it might take longer to get the quest done by the time half the group says "brb..restroom,baby,phone,doorbell,beer,food,guild,wife,husband,reboot,ect" . You get the idea.

Another thing that gets on my nerves while grouping is people looting while they should be fighting . Them little loot pop up windows can get you killed sometimes especially if you have most of the ag. All the group should kill all the mob first and then loot after.

Anyway.. I do like grouping sometimes if it's with the right people. It's just hard to find the right people sometimes.

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Originally posted by windasm

Another thing that gets on my nerves while grouping is people looting while they should be fighting . Them little loot pop up windows can get you killed sometimes especially if you have most of the ag. All the group should kill all the mob first and then loot after.
Anyway.. I do like grouping sometimes if it's with the right people. It's just hard to find the right people sometimes.

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God, I wish I could give you a beer for mentioning that. That loot popup can be so darn annoying (especially if they're looting a mob you just AoEed to death). Worse, in a rush to get the loot, and not bother checking if folks are healed, and kill those who aren't healed enough to withstand the poison/damage from a booby-trapped lock (glad I played a Paladin, as the Divine Favor saved me from such player stupidity [as they tend to trip it as you're trying to heal yourself back up before another mob pops up on their sorry butts).
 

Originally posted by UNATCOII

 

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Originally posted by randomt

 

And lastly, 99% of crafters are solo players in exactly the same way as someone who goes off to adventure solo. Both do their thing, then come back to town, hit the markets, deal with the community in some form or other, then go back to doing their thing.
 

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Amen.

If you're a dedicated crafter and seller, the game is a solo enterprise. When I played EQ2, the guild owner has 3 accounts, and that's about 30 crafters. He spends his days and nights leveling them, and has a goal of controlling the market (or most of it). That's his game. He chit chats, and sometimes comes out to help, but his game play is crafting and the market. Same can be said of countless others with a great tradeskill side to their MMO.

Still hoping for a MMO with a tradeskill side that's just as dedicated as the adventure side (with the best gear made by true professionals, not just anyone powerleveling), nor just tacked on as an afterthought to appease some crafters (and treating them like dirt with crappy stuff to make -- and thinking crafting is putting the mats inbetween mobs). :(

Exact;ly, and this is kind of the conclusion I was aiming for.  If this trend continues, then I really believe that devs should consider alternative content for the solo player (or any player for that matter) which takes us away from the bog standard fight-level-fight-level routine which we have to endure the bulk of the time.  Surely some creative developers could add some content that broke up this cycle, otherwise I don't see the point.  Sure, it has taken me several years of going through nearly every MMO to figure this out, but everything is basically the same.  Grouping allows this banal routine to be more fun as you are sharing your game with other people, and it can sometimes be a good laugh.  But now that a lot of us are solo-ing most of the time, why won't dev's try something different for a change?  A genuine alternative to the combat/level timesink.  And by that, I don't include the crappy side quests which every MMO throws in during a holiday season.  To me these are just lazy programs brought out every year at the particular festival, and which involve crap quests usually resulting with inane and stupid rewards.  'Oh look! I can turn my mount into a reindeer for 30 seconds!'  oh brilliant!  I remember a couple of years ago in EQ2, they still had the jingle bells theme playing well into febuary!

To tell the truth I don't even want holiday stuff in the game, as it breaks the immersion. EQ2's D.I.R.T.Y. side event was interesting, as it fit with the game, but hearing holiday music in a high fantasy game just spoils what the game is about.

If I knew how to program for a game, I'd be busy making that crafting/trading MMO. It would be a crafting and trading masterpiece, as it focuses on being the biggest capitalist on the internet -- forget grinding the dungeons for mythicals. Game will have the ability to export in .csv or Excel formats so traders can keep track of their stock, even. It'll be almost like being a day trader, complete with charts to follow the flow of items being sold and bought.

God, why hasn't a MMO publisher done this yet? It's unique. It's new. If successful could even be used in colleges to teach micro and macroeconomics. Everyone loves money, even the raider, pvper, the grouper and soloer.

Originally posted by Majestico

Originally posted by UNATCOII

 

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Originally posted by randomt

 

And lastly, 99% of crafters are solo players in exactly the same way as someone who goes off to adventure solo. Both do their thing, then come back to town, hit the markets, deal with the community in some form or other, then go back to doing their thing.
 

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Amen.

If you're a dedicated crafter and seller, the game is a solo enterprise. When I played EQ2, the guild owner has 3 accounts, and that's about 30 crafters. He spends his days and nights leveling them, and has a goal of controlling the market (or most of it). That's his game. He chit chats, and sometimes comes out to help, but his game play is crafting and the market. Same can be said of countless others with a great tradeskill side to their MMO.

Still hoping for a MMO with a tradeskill side that's just as dedicated as the adventure side (with the best gear made by true professionals, not just anyone powerleveling), nor just tacked on as an afterthought to appease some crafters (and treating them like dirt with crappy stuff to make -- and thinking crafting is putting the mats inbetween mobs). :(

 

Exact;ly, and this is kind of the conclusion I was aiming for.  If this trend continues, then I really believe that devs should consider alternative content for the solo player (or any player for that matter) which takes us away from the bog standard fight-level-fight-level routine which we have to endure the bulk of the time.  Surely some creative developers could add some content that broke up this cycle, otherwise I don't see the point.  Sure, it has taken me several years of going through nearly every MMO to figure this out, but everything is basically the same.  Grouping allows this banal routine to be more fun as you are sharing your game with other people, and it can sometimes be a good laugh.  But now that a lot of us are solo-ing most of the time, why won't dev's try something different for a change?  A genuine alternative to the combat/level timesink.  And by that, I don't include the crappy side quests which every MMO throws in during a holiday season.  To me these are just lazy programs brought out every year at the particular festival, and which involve crap quests usually resulting with inane and stupid rewards.  'Oh look! I can turn my mount into a reindeer for 30 seconds!'  oh brilliant!  I remember a couple of years ago in EQ2, they still had the jingle bells theme playing well into febuary!

Well, I don't know, I find combat exciting and I like it. I play these games to be some sort of warrior or Sorceror. I have no interest in anything else. I don't recall the chapter in the book where Elric mined ore and made ingots. Then set them to market.

I don't recall Conan weaving hats and trading for skins so that he could make gloves.

I don't recall the fellowship stopping to farm a bit.

I play for the adventure. Doesn't matter if it is solo or group. So sure, if the devs want to add addtional content for those people who like weaving or farming then fine. But If the game is not adventure based I pretty much know for sure I won't be playing it. And many more people for that matter.

I don't remember the last time I heard someone get excited about a game because it had ceramics or glass blowing as a major part of the game. This just smells of a hold over from the early days of swg. And as my friend said "it felt like a job... I already had a job... so I quit".

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Originally posted by Sovrath
I don't remember the last time I heard someone get excited about a game because it had ceramics or glass blowing as a major part of the game. This just smells of a hold over from the early days of swg. And as my friend said "it felt like a job... I already had a job... so I quit".

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It's obvious that you don't do anything else in MMOs to notice, even in one game...

94+ pages of hardcore tradeskillers and sellers

The guild owner of the guild I was in has 3 Station accounts, and every alt he has is a crafter, and the main is one of the most wealthiest players in EQ2. He's so hardcore, he bought another guild and powerleveling it basically by his army of alts, and those who he pays to help craft.

So yes, there are gamers who get all excited about crafting, and selling what they crafted.