Originally posted by girlgeek

Wow.  Did you actually watch the WHOLE video and listen to the commentary???  O.o  Their "questing dynamic" sounds MUCH more along the lines of "ala Fable" then "ala WoW," to ME, anyway.

It does NOT sound like a linear sort of game.  They SAID...if you listened...that you make decisions that actually change the course of your characters development and destiny within the world.  It sounded very "Fable-ish" to me, which I personally don't think is a BAD thing.

Yes I watched the whole video.  And the commentary was meaningless.

"They SAID, that you make decisions that actually change the course of your characters development and destiny within the world"

-  How is this different then any other game? Any decision you make in any game will change the course of your character development and destiny within the world.  They just worded it fancy.  You could say the same thing for WoW and it would be true. 

examples: 
The decision to grind all night changed the course of your characters development
The decision to ninja loot that sweet sword changed the course of your characters destiny within the world

-  I fail to see how this doesn't sound linear.  You go down a set path of quests and you have 2 options for those quests, good or evil.  they might as well just give you the option at the start of the game to choose republic or empire.  They are just prolonging this decision.

Originally posted by Squitty

Originally posted by girlgeek

Wow.  Did you actually watch the WHOLE video and listen to the commentary???  O.o  Their "questing dynamic" sounds MUCH more along the lines of "ala Fable" then "ala WoW," to ME, anyway.

It does NOT sound like a linear sort of game.  They SAID...if you listened...that you make decisions that actually change the course of your characters development and destiny within the world.  It sounded very "Fable-ish" to me, which I personally don't think is a BAD thing.

 

Yes I watched the whole video.  And the commentary was meaningless.

"They SAID, that you make decisions that actually change the course of your characters development and destiny within the world"

-  How is this different then any other game? Any decision you make in any game will change the course of your character development and destiny within the world.  They just worded it fancy.  You could say the same thing for WoW and it would be true. 

examples: 
The decision to grind all night changed the course of your characters development
The decision to ninja loot that sweet sword changed the course of your characters destiny within the world

You have player destiny confused with character destiny.

-  I fail to see how this doesn't sound linear.  You go down a set path of quests and you have 2 options for those quests, good or evil.  they might as well just give you the option at the start of the game to choose republic or empire.  They are just prolonging this decision.

No one knows how many choices you will have.

Did you ever play a game where your decisions (dialogue) made an impact on how you moved through the storyline?

If yes, then think of it that way.

Otherwise, just imagine a branching storyline. That is NOT something you find in WoW, no matter how much you want to tell others it is so.

Again, you have player and character destiny confused. Choices you make in the WoW world have no effect on your character's story. None. If you want to dispute that...then uh...I dunno how to explain further.

Originally posted by singsofdeath

1)  Did you ever play a game where your decisions (dialogue) made an impact on how you moved through the storyline?

2)  Again, you have player and character destiny confused. Choices you make in the WoW world have no effect on your character's story. None. If you want to dispute that...then uh...I dunno how to explain further.

1) Of course. The newest being Fallout 3.  It's a great feature for a Single player game. If this is their main feature I don't see why they just don't make it into a single player game.  Oh wait, I forgot about monthly fees, now I get it.

2)  I'm a little confused where you came up with this.  How do you know you don't have player and character destiny confused?

Which got me thinking.  If you can indeed change the outcome by conversation choices then this would be impossible to implement with groups. Why?  Well I wouldn't want someone making the choices for me in my group.  It would allow people to screw your character over in an irreversible way.  So these choices could only be available in solo missions, which defeats the purpose of an MMOG.

i kinda thought that too, and me and my guild got into a discussion about it, and came up with a way this really could work well (now mind you this is all hypothetical brainstorming by me and guildies)

0-You see a starving peasant attempting to break into an cantina to get some food? Do you A) stop the thief or b)help him?
1-If a = yes goto 10
5-If b= yes goto 15
10-You choose to stop the theif, how do you stop him? a) kill him b) tell him he would be better off not spending the night in prison, and offer him 50 credits
11- If a=true goto 20
12- if b=true go to 25
15-Begin jedi (grey) apprentice story
20-Begin jedi (sith) apprentice story
25-Begin jedi (light) apprentice story

This would be your main quest, now say you have similar ones for BH, medic, smuggler, etc. You make these quests all lead to a similar place or scenario.

Take this as an example (the rescue leia quest found here ).All the profession specific quests lead at certain points to the same area. Let's use the hypothetical leia quest and they all lead to the death star.

The Light jedi might have to go here to stop the sith who is guarding the princess in her cell as a right of passage. specific story can be affected by a) kills the sith b) incapacitates him

The medic might have been sent by the Rebel alliance to heal the princess and keep her alive, due to her vitals being dangerously low after her interrogation, and she is too valuable to the rebels to die. specific story can be affected by a) enemies killed > heals (more combat oriented) b) heals > enemies killed (more healer oriented)

Smuggler might see this place as an excellent opportunity to steal some imperial class ships and data and sell them to the highest bidder or contribute it to the smuggler's guild. specific story can be affected by a) he steals imperial data vital to the rebel alliance b) steals ships which can be sold to the highest bidder, either imperial or rebel

A bounty hunter has been hired by the rebel alliance to kill grand moff tarkin, see's the infiltrating party invading the death star, and see's the opportunity and strength in numbers to carry out his goal. specific story can be affected by a) Kills grand Moff Tarkin b) Gets paid off and lets Grand Moff Tarkin Live.

Originally posted by Squitty

Originally posted by singsofdeath

1)  Did you ever play a game where your decisions (dialogue) made an impact on how you moved through the storyline?

2)  Again, you have player and character destiny confused. Choices you make in the WoW world have no effect on your character's story. None. If you want to dispute that...then uh...I dunno how to explain further.

 

1) Of course. The newest being Fallout 3.  It's a great feature for a Single player game. If this is their main feature I don't see why they just don't make it into a single player game.  Oh wait, I forgot about monthly fees, now I get it.

Some people like to think that it will be a good thing in an MMO. Guess there is a difference of taste there. Me, I'd very much like for my decisions in quests and stories to have an effect on where my character goes.

2)  I'm a little confused where you came up with this.  How do you know you don't have player and character destiny confused?

I came up with this because you brought up examples of playstyle. You said some things about deciding to grind an entire day or deciding to ninja-loot. That has nothing to do with your character, but with yourself as a player. I really don#t know how I can explain this further.

Which got me thinking.  If you can indeed change the outcome by conversation choices then this would be impossible to implement with groups. Why?  Well I wouldn't want someone making the choices for me in my group.  It would allow people to screw your character over in an irreversible way.  So these choices could only be available in solo missions, which defeats the purpose of an MMOG.

We shall see how BioWare handles this, won't we. Unless of course you belong to the crowd of people that likes to think their opinion and  judgement is the only constant truth in the universe?

To clarify:

Character Destiny: Anything your character experiences in game. Something that relates only to your character in regards to choices and outcomes. To put in a simple example: Do I rescue three jawas from the Sandpeople by slaying the tribe, do I make a truce with the sandpeople and get them out, or do I just ignore the Jawas and do business with the sandpeople anyway. Each choice would have a different result in standing and will take you down a different path.

Player Destiny. I choose to grind 24 hours to get that piece of epic loot from a certain vendor, or I wait for someone to take me along to a raid to get a similar piece and ninja-loot it while no one is looking. Results may include being frowned upon by the community, but won't affect your character.

As good as it may look and sound, my concern is that Bioware is hyping a game that is a good 3 years or so away from being shipped. Usually people get sick of hype after six months, but three years of hype? I'd prefer they just be quiet until they were in alpha and could actually show what they  were talking about rather than talk and show canned animation made specifically for press.

Originally posted by Puuk

As good as it may look and sound, my concern is that Bioware is hyping a game that is a good 3 years or so away from being shipped. Usually people get sick of hype after six months, but three years of hype? I'd prefer they just be quiet until they were in alpha and could actually show what they  were talking about rather than talk and show canned animation made specifically for press.

I don't think it's that far away. Work began in December of 2005 on it. They have purchased all the tech going into it. They've only had to work on content, art, and sound ect. I bet it will be late 2009-early 2010. We may be beta testing this summer.

Originally posted by tillamook

Originally posted by Puuk

As good as it may look and sound, my concern is that Bioware is hyping a game that is a good 3 years or so away from being shipped. Usually people get sick of hype after six months, but three years of hype? I'd prefer they just be quiet until they were in alpha and could actually show what they  were talking about rather than talk and show canned animation made specifically for press.

I don't think it's that far away. Work began in December of 2005 on it. They have purchased all the tech going into it. They've only had to work on content, art, and sound ect. I bet it will be late 2009-early 2010. We may be beta testing this summer.

Not by a long shot. The most time consuming part of MMO development is art and content. Considering the size and scope of what they are trying to do, they've got a LONG way to go. Just making missions branch based on player choice within an MMO requires a metric shitload of specific scripting that not only checks for local variables, but also global variables. The designers have to account for many possible solutions that a player might conceive. And the artwork that goes to support the content of environments, missions, overland and instanced areas, special usables, etc., etc. would boggle your mind.
 

I know it's wishful thinking, and I'd like to see it enter beta in summer, too, but this game won't see beta until well into 2011. Sorry, that's just the way it is. If Bioware had more, believe me, they'd show it proudly. They have a long, tough road ahead of them and I wish them oodles of good luck. I want a great Star Wars game, too.

Originally posted by Puuk

Originally posted by tillamook

Originally posted by Puuk

As good as it may look and sound, my concern is that Bioware is hyping a game that is a good 3 years or so away from being shipped. Usually people get sick of hype after six months, but three years of hype? I'd prefer they just be quiet until they were in alpha and could actually show what they  were talking about rather than talk and show canned animation made specifically for press.

I don't think it's that far away. Work began in December of 2005 on it. They have purchased all the tech going into it. They've only had to work on content, art, and sound ect. I bet it will be late 2009-early 2010. We may be beta testing this summer.

Not by a long shot. The most time consuming part of MMO development is art and content. Considering the size and scope of what they are trying to do, they've got a LONG way to go. Just making missions branch based on player choice within an MMO requires a metric shitload of specific scripting that not only checks for local variables, but also global variables. The designers have to account for many possible solutions that a player might conceive. And the artwork that goes to support the content of environments, missions, overland and instanced areas, special usables, etc., etc. would boggle your mind.
 

I know it's wishful thinking, and I'd like to see it enter beta in summer, too, but this game won't see beta until well into 2011. Sorry, that's just the way it is. If Bioware had more, believe me, they'd show it proudly. They have a long, tough road ahead of them and I wish them oodles of good luck. I want a great Star Wars game, too.

I dunno. They brought a working version of the game along during their visit to Mythic. So that would suggest they are already in Alpha.

Make of that what you will. ^^

Originally posted by singsofdeath

Originally posted by Puuk

Originally posted by tillamook

Originally posted by Puuk

As good as it may look and sound, my concern is that Bioware is hyping a game that is a good 3 years or so away from being shipped. Usually people get sick of hype after six months, but three years of hype? I'd prefer they just be quiet until they were in alpha and could actually show what they  were talking about rather than talk and show canned animation made specifically for press.

I don't think it's that far away. Work began in December of 2005 on it. They have purchased all the tech going into it. They've only had to work on content, art, and sound ect. I bet it will be late 2009-early 2010. We may be beta testing this summer.

Not by a long shot. The most time consuming part of MMO development is art and content. Considering the size and scope of what they are trying to do, they've got a LONG way to go. Just making missions branch based on player choice within an MMO requires a metric shitload of specific scripting that not only checks for local variables, but also global variables. The designers have to account for many possible solutions that a player might conceive. And the artwork that goes to support the content of environments, missions, overland and instanced areas, special usables, etc., etc. would boggle your mind.
 

I know it's wishful thinking, and I'd like to see it enter beta in summer, too, but this game won't see beta until well into 2011. Sorry, that's just the way it is. If Bioware had more, believe me, they'd show it proudly. They have a long, tough road ahead of them and I wish them oodles of good luck. I want a great Star Wars game, too.

 

I dunno. They brought a working version of the game along during their visit to Mythic. So that would suggest they are already in Alpha.

 

Make of that what you will. ^^

Not necessarily. They could have a "press slice" of the game to illustrate what they want to do, and this could encompass a handful of zones. But the scope they're describing leads me to believe they're a long way off. Four years dev time for a game like this is just not enough. This is easily a five to six year project.
 

Originally posted by Puuk

Originally posted by tillamook

Originally posted by Puuk

As good as it may look and sound, my concern is that Bioware is hyping a game that is a good 3 years or so away from being shipped. Usually people get sick of hype after six months, but three years of hype? I'd prefer they just be quiet until they were in alpha and could actually show what they  were talking about rather than talk and show canned animation made specifically for press.

I don't think it's that far away. Work began in December of 2005 on it. They have purchased all the tech going into it. They've only had to work on content, art, and sound ect. I bet it will be late 2009-early 2010. We may be beta testing this summer.

Not by a long shot. The most time consuming part of MMO development is art and content. Considering the size and scope of what they are trying to do, they've got a LONG way to go. Just making missions branch based on player choice within an MMO requires a metric shitload of specific scripting that not only checks for local variables, but also global variables. The designers have to account for many possible solutions that a player might conceive. And the artwork that goes to support the content of environments, missions, overland and instanced areas, special usables, etc., etc. would boggle your mind.
 

I know it's wishful thinking, and I'd like to see it enter beta in summer, too, but this game won't see beta until well into 2011. Sorry, that's just the way it is. If Bioware had more, believe me, they'd show it proudly. They have a long, tough road ahead of them and I wish them oodles of good luck. I want a great Star Wars game, too.

Actually the Hero Engine is built to allow cross threading of quests to be easier. It's one of the many reasons they picked the engine. Keep in mind they have stated in numerous interviews before it was announced that it was TOR that they were shooting for a launch date  of 2009 for their mmo, I'm giving them a bit more time and saying maybe Qtr 1 2010. If you need i can provide links to the times it was said 2009.

Originally posted by tillamook

Originally posted by Puuk

Originally posted by tillamook

Originally posted by Puuk

As good as it may look and sound, my concern is that Bioware is hyping a game that is a good 3 years or so away from being shipped. Usually people get sick of hype after six months, but three years of hype? I'd prefer they just be quiet until they were in alpha and could actually show what they  were talking about rather than talk and show canned animation made specifically for press.

I don't think it's that far away. Work began in December of 2005 on it. They have purchased all the tech going into it. They've only had to work on content, art, and sound ect. I bet it will be late 2009-early 2010. We may be beta testing this summer.

Not by a long shot. The most time consuming part of MMO development is art and content. Considering the size and scope of what they are trying to do, they've got a LONG way to go. Just making missions branch based on player choice within an MMO requires a metric shitload of specific scripting that not only checks for local variables, but also global variables. The designers have to account for many possible solutions that a player might conceive. And the artwork that goes to support the content of environments, missions, overland and instanced areas, special usables, etc., etc. would boggle your mind.
 

I know it's wishful thinking, and I'd like to see it enter beta in summer, too, but this game won't see beta until well into 2011. Sorry, that's just the way it is. If Bioware had more, believe me, they'd show it proudly. They have a long, tough road ahead of them and I wish them oodles of good luck. I want a great Star Wars game, too.

 

Actually the Hero Engine is built to allow cross threading of quests to be easier. It's one of the many reasons they picked the engine. Keep in mind they have stated in numerous interviews before it was announced that it was TOR that they were shooting for a launch date  of 2009 for their mmo, I'm giving them a bit more time and saying maybe Qtr 1 2010. If you need i can provide links to the times it was said 2009.

Mhh. What with delays and possible snags in developement, my current guess is a release mid to late 2010. I want to say early 2010 and I'd really LOVE for it to come out end of 2009, but on the other hand, I do not want them to rush things.

Originally posted by singsofdeath

Originally posted by tillamook

Originally posted by Puuk

Originally posted by tillamook

Originally posted by Puuk

As good as it may look and sound, my concern is that Bioware is hyping a game that is a good 3 years or so away from being shipped. Usually people get sick of hype after six months, but three years of hype? I'd prefer they just be quiet until they were in alpha and could actually show what they  were talking about rather than talk and show canned animation made specifically for press.

I don't think it's that far away. Work began in December of 2005 on it. They have purchased all the tech going into it. They've only had to work on content, art, and sound ect. I bet it will be late 2009-early 2010. We may be beta testing this summer.

Not by a long shot. The most time consuming part of MMO development is art and content. Considering the size and scope of what they are trying to do, they've got a LONG way to go. Just making missions branch based on player choice within an MMO requires a metric shitload of specific scripting that not only checks for local variables, but also global variables. The designers have to account for many possible solutions that a player might conceive. And the artwork that goes to support the content of environments, missions, overland and instanced areas, special usables, etc., etc. would boggle your mind.
 

I know it's wishful thinking, and I'd like to see it enter beta in summer, too, but this game won't see beta until well into 2011. Sorry, that's just the way it is. If Bioware had more, believe me, they'd show it proudly. They have a long, tough road ahead of them and I wish them oodles of good luck. I want a great Star Wars game, too.

 

Actually the Hero Engine is built to allow cross threading of quests to be easier. It's one of the many reasons they picked the engine. Keep in mind they have stated in numerous interviews before it was announced that it was TOR that they were shooting for a launch date  of 2009 for their mmo, I'm giving them a bit more time and saying maybe Qtr 1 2010. If you need i can provide links to the times it was said 2009.

 

Mhh. What with delays and possible snags in developement, my current guess is a release mid to late 2010. I want to say early 2010 and I'd really LOVE for it to come out end of 2009, but on the other hand, I do not want them to rush things.

Things are gonna move fast, seriously keep up on this

www.gamedaily.com/articles/news/star-wars-the-old-republic-powered-by-heroengine/

Does look nice but 2010 is along long way off, but fingers crossed.

Nice vid! .. and must say, I do like the idea of meaningful solo content. It was one of the things that I miss most from the original SWG and also one of the very few things that I loved about Tabula Rasa .. I do hope that they make the content scale in difficulty and allow you to either solo or group depending on your preference.

Would love the prospect of logging on whenever I felt like it and being able to do something more meaningful than just grind.

This game is gonna rock :)