Originally posted by Yucko55

Crashloop: If proof is what you want then just read the text on your Age of Conan case about DX10, massive siege battles, etc. It does not say it is PLANNED to be in there, it says it IS in the game. Or view som of the interviews with Erling Ellingsen.. The list goes on. How many times must people be shown proof to actually see it? Some people treat Funcom as if it they are the creators of their own delusional religion.

I have the collectors edition so I don't have that written on my box, but accordingly to others it says enhanced for directx10. Massive siege battles was a joke, but that I assumed before I bought the game. I'm not blind to the fact that they promised a lot, but guess what so have most other MMO's I have seen done. And at launch half the features doesn't quite work at all, or they will ahve to be redone to improve them. If anyone thought siege battles would be awesome when they hadn't even tested them during beta other then internal testing, well then I want those people to raise their hands so I can sell them some Coca Cola bottles with oxygen in.

Constantly basing their opinion about the game on how it was at launch rather then how it is today is stupid, wait no it is retarded at best. Yes the game had huge flaws at launch, no doubts there, but hello you can't redo the past, it ain't frickin possible.  Yes Funcom faled royally to live up to the hype they created, they fell and burned for it too. The tide however has turned lately the game has improved a lot, but people are still hung up in what the box says rather then how the game is today. But if people want to live in the past rather then move on I won't deny them that fact, but the 100% true fact is after Craig Morrison took over as GD the game has improved a ton. And it will continue to do so as long as Funcom releases the same quality patches we have seen lately.

Originally posted by GrayGhost79

Better question imo would be why such animosity towards anyone that doesn't seem to agree with how FC does things?

 I will point out , the debt is there. As well, Xfire is generaly used to gauge the popularity of a game, It seems many feel this is not permitted with AoC even though it is with other games. It's basicaly a survey in how it works. Not all players use Xfire which allows it to be a sample of the community.

Edited to add: Don't misconstrude this as me agreeing that AoC will tank soon. I actually think it will be around for years to come. As long as a game makes there money back, most companies will keep it around until the profit stops.

We don't know how much actual debt Funcom has.  Yet plenty of people post as if they do.  We do know they secured at least 40 million in outside funding (there was a press release about it).  We don't know how much if any of that has been re-paid yet.

Personally I get sick of X-fire related posts for any MMO.  X-Fire does one thing.. it shows you how many people are using X-fire with a paticular MMO.

The problem is:

1) You don't know what percentage of any paticular MMO's playerbase uses X-fire

2) Since you don't know (1) you can't really guage how a game is doing subscriber wise.

Obviously AoC is not where it shouuld be or at least where I would think Funcom would want it to be.  Yet people keep trying to claim a "total subscriber" base number based on X-fire.

People keep trying to claim that Anarchy Online is free to play and generates no income.

Yet totally ignore that "froob" accounts view "in game ads" and that the company behind those is paying Funcom a fee to show them.  Which is why Funcom keeps the "froob" offer going.. because it makes them money.

We don't even know how much money it makes... but I see more companies adding this to various kinds of online products.  So it must be generating a decent amount of income for other companies to be using this type of service.

You know what.. I spent over $100 to play this game too.  It was somewhat like living the Anarchy Online launch over again.

Personally I had a lot of fun at this launch tho.  It was the random changes after it went live.. that seemed to be made by someone with a blindfold and a dartboard that got me to quit.  So to me the game wasn't trash but the leadership on the game was non existent or in a drug coma after launch.

Anyway this thread was about a different topic.. and I still don't know the answer to that.  Personally I don't want this game to fail or go away.  Oh and I don't even currently play it.. but it would be bad for the industry.

I guess the Funcom haters want to keep having WoW clones to choose from.. or wait till we get the WoW NGE because its to hard for the masses to learn.. and we can all play 2 iconic classes in every MMO.  This is what the failing games of the industry inspire the "new games" to do.. so they don't fail.

Investors don't like losing money.

*clarity*

No I am not saying anyone should go play this game so it doesn't fail.  I am saying as long as games keep not living up to investor expectations.... we are going to keep going down a path that supposedly no one here wants to go down.  Investors don't post here.. they don't care what you or I want... and I'm fairly certain there isn't any MMO released since WoW.. that has made its investors happy.

Originally posted by Crashloop

Originally posted by Yucko55

Crashloop: If proof is what you want then just read the text on your Age of Conan case about DX10, massive siege battles, etc. It does not say it is PLANNED to be in there, it says it IS in the game. Or view som of the interviews with Erling Ellingsen.. The list goes on. How many times must people be shown proof to actually see it? Some people treat Funcom as if it they are the creators of their own delusional religion.

I have the collectors edition so I don't have that written on my box, but accordingly to others it says enhanced for directx10. Massive siege battles was a joke, but that I assumed before I bought the game. I'm not blind to the fact that they promised a lot, but guess what so have most other MMO's I have seen done. And at launch half the features doesn't quite work at all, or they will ahve to be redone to improve them. If anyone thought siege battles would be awesome when they hadn't even tested them during beta other then internal testing, well then I want those people to raise their hands so I can sell them some Coca Cola bottles with oxygen in.

Constantly basing their opinion about the game on how it was at launch rather then how it is today is stupid, wait no it is retarded at best. Yes the game had huge flaws at launch, no doubts there, but hello you can't redo the past, it ain't frickin possible.  Yes Funcom faled royally to live up to the hype they created, they fell and burned for it too. The tide however has turned lately the game has improved a lot, but people are still hung up in what the box says rather then how the game is today. But if people want to live in the past rather then move on I won't deny them that fact, but the 100% true fact is after Craig Morrison took over as GD the game has improved a ton. And it will continue to do so as long as Funcom releases the same quality patches we have seen lately.

 

I find the argument that most other MMO makers have lied, so it's ok for Funcom to lie a bit weak.

However, I am not about frying Age of Conan, I believe the game will only get better as time goes. But people should be aware of the lies certain individuals in Funcom are pouring out to the masses and to their workers. I am disgusted when people defend such obvious liers. I think the negative posts and threads, which have real substance to them, will dissapear with time if Funcom really puts a stop to their nonsense. So lets hope they will continiue to support Obama and his quest for chaaange like they seem to do now that the pressure against them have been turned up a notch! ;)

EDIT: Please don't turn this thread into a another WOW vs AOC players thread. This thread is about Funcom as a company and how it might affect AoC from now on.

Originally posted by CobraSolidus

Originally posted by Lieven

And to give a short version of my story:

I guess I started as a promising employee, of which they had really high expectations. I myself was a bit over courageous as well, and I ended up with a task that was a bit too big for someone who didn't know their code yet, so I grosly underestimated the amount of time it was going to cost. After some time, they took me off the task, and my reputation got a big blow. Then for the rest of the time, the things I got to do weren't really that important, but I did them fine. The feedback I got from my direct lead was fine, but mr Pål the technical director felt like it was still needed to keep destroying my reputation even further. Of course I got worried about this, so talked with my direct lead about it, and she said that I shouldn't worry, as the rest of management know what that guy was like, and they didn't really take him serious anyway. Then there was this meeting, where I got offered 3 months of pay if I would resign. Which of couse sucked. Then I started looking for a new job, and after some interviews with a certain company, they offered me a position as lead. I didn't take it though, for obvious reasons, but I figured that it was kinda important to understand where it went wrong at funcom, as the dots didn't really seem to connect any more. So I first contacted my previous lead, and later kjetil the hr dude, but they were just acting like they were dealing with an annoying customer, which finally turned me into the disgruntled little ex employee I am now.

The long version, which I'm currently writing is much more saucy, but I probably won't post it here anyway, as it may be a bit too personal on some stuff:).

 

My god are you for real? lol. Are you posting your lifes serenade on these forums? I am very happy to see that FC take people with low coding efficiency off the project. Do you really think FC (the evil monster) would on purpose (for personal reasons) take you of the project? NO, truth is if you were an excellent programmer you would have been promoted, but you were not so you got demoted. I see nothing wrong in this. And by the way, did you know that when you give a deadline for a project that thats actually supposed to match the date when you are done? You can get fired for less dude (in any industry). lol. Reading your posts and how FC professionally moved ahead through your performance issues I am very optimistic on their behalf.

Another thing, reading all your posts you almost come accross quite trollish. It's almost like I have read your posts somewhere else... Let me think about that one..

 

Well, that's what this thread is about, eh?

And I do realize my mistake with that task, so if they had fired me right away, then they would be harsh and unforgiving, but still fair. But that wasn't the case, I still worked there for almost a year, and during that year I hadn't done anything wrong. And believe me, I have made a great effort to find out if there was anything, but it became pretty clear that there just wasn't.

But even if I would have been doing a bad job, there's just no way that could have justified the badmouthing people in management started doing. And really, the charicature they finally fired was just so far from the truth that it was almost rediculous.

And it's not like I don't understand it. After all management was clearly very frustrated, especially this Pål guy who really is just a fossile from the time Funcom was a much smaller company. He clearly had completely lost his touch of what was going on, and was probably also feeling the hot breath of the current technical director in his neck, so I don't think it's that weird that he needed his scape goats. And who do you pick fo that? Not the people that are doing fine, not the people that are just useless junior programmers, but someone who has been in the spotlight, but let you down (and btw, I'm not the only one, I know at least a couple of other people that have been threated in a similar way too).

And as I said, I'm disgruntled, so I know my posts are cynical, but that doesn't make them any less true.

And I'm curious who you think I would be... I tend to use the same name on most forums.

Originally posted by Crashloop

Originally posted by Hamrtime2

 

Once agian another xfire hater when it doesnt suit them. I guess AoC is the exception to the norm when it comes to xfire numbers.....nice try.
Thats why they are in debt over 16m right? Nice try again though.

 

I find it interesting to see how much you hate funcom, is there any reason?

A lot of people hate Funcom. Why they hate Funcom you ask? You know the answer my friend. They hate Funcom because of the LIES. When a company lies to you in order to get your money.. well that pisses most people off.

No game in history has generated so MANY "haters". I mean people have printed "Failcom" t-shirts, that's a lot of anger towards a company. It's good when customers get angry. Next time we get better service.

Originally posted by Scaredgirl

 

A lot of people hate Funcom. Why they hate Funcom you ask? You know the answer my friend. They hate Funcom because of the LIES. When a company lies to you in order to get your money.. well that pisses most people off.

No game in history has generated so MANY "haters". I mean people have printed "Failcom" t-shirts, that's a lot of anger towards a company. It's good when customers get angry. Next time we get better service.

I take it you've never been to the SWG forums?  

SOE's poor decisions engendered a lot of hate that still continues several years after they made them.

At this point it seems to me that things are taken out of proportions. According to my sources most people are very unhappy with their job at Funcom, and things are getting worste every day regarding overtime and such.

Originally posted by CobraSolidus

Originally posted by Lieven

Originally posted by CobraSolidus

Originally posted by Crashloop

Because just getting a new job is so easy :)

It might be very easy if you are willing to move to another country to develop games, but for those who have family that have job here and maybe kids too, just moo\ving to another country isn't something you do over night. Funcom is breaking the laws when people work overtime without getting paid, it's easy to say that is how the businiess is, but still they have to follow the laws.

 

You see what you say there is the crux of the whole situation. FC never asked anybody to go nutto and work all the time. If a worker love his work so much that he rather stay and do his work all the time, does not mean he should and even less can he expect FC to start paying overtime. Anyone noodling around in the office at evening time unless asked to are there purely on their own initiative. NO PAY !

Ow, believe me, they don't even ask you to work overtime, they politely force you to do it. And not just a bit, but a lot.

 

Do you mean as in they ask you ok mister project manager, whats the time required for project A, and then you sit down and say B after a while. However when some time passes and B start to creep up on you and you realize that you are fare behind your deadline. You damn right thats pressure, but it's the kind of pressure any project manager have to deal with. You are not supposed to be late. Did you know that? You see this whole thing about AoC patching that got delayed and delayed over the summer was not really acceptable. And I am glad FC obviously have started to do something about this. A project manager is responsible for his project!

Nice try, but no.

And if you would know anything about managing software projects, you know that sliding happens all the time, especially in a company with so much legacy code as Funcom has. DirectX 10 anyone?

Originally posted by Kesran

Originally posted by Scaredgirl

 

A lot of people hate Funcom. Why they hate Funcom you ask? You know the answer my friend. They hate Funcom because of the LIES. When a company lies to you in order to get your money.. well that pisses most people off.

No game in history has generated so MANY "haters". I mean people have printed "Failcom" t-shirts, that's a lot of anger towards a company. It's good when customers get angry. Next time we get better service.

 

I take it you've never been to the SWG forums?  

SOE's poor decisions engendered a lot of hate that still continues several years after they made them.

SWG is number 2 on my list. Have you ever seen a "SOE sucks" t-shirt? Probably not. SWG has many haters but people hate AoC and Funcom with PASSION.

Originally posted by Scaredgirl

Originally posted by Kesran

Originally posted by Scaredgirl

 

A lot of people hate Funcom. Why they hate Funcom you ask? You know the answer my friend. They hate Funcom because of the LIES. When a company lies to you in order to get your money.. well that pisses most people off.

No game in history has generated so MANY "haters". I mean people have printed "Failcom" t-shirts, that's a lot of anger towards a company. It's good when customers get angry. Next time we get better service.

 

I take it you've never been to the SWG forums?  

SOE's poor decisions engendered a lot of hate that still continues several years after they made them.

 

SWG is number 2 on my list. Have you ever seen a "SOE sucks" t-shirt? Probably not. SWG has many haters but people hate AoC and Funcom with PASSION.

It is also very possible, that the more dangerous game is for the competitors, the more "haters" it will generate these days.

It's Internet, baby.

You can clone haters endlessly and with passion. One true hater is already enough to unwrap a massive attack of clones. Right?..

Originally posted by ruslans

It is also very possible, that the more dangerous game is for the competitors, the more "haters" it will generate these days.

It's Internet, baby.

You can clone haters endlessly and with passion. One true hater is already enough to unwrap a massive attack of clones. Right?..

Dont' blame the internet. Also I don't think people hate Funcom because they feel threatened by it. Most "haters" really wanted Age of Conan to be the next big thing. But once they saw it was just another badly implemented game, and realized they had been lied to all those months, they got pissed off and quit the game. I believe about 90-85% quit during the few months. Are all these people "haters"?

On the original topic.. It does not surprise me that Funcom has mistreated their staff. Clearly we are talking about a shady and unethical company here, who would probably do anything to make an extra buck. I really hope they will get punished for it but I doubt they will.

Originally posted by Gurtelrose

At this point it seems to me that things are taken out of proportions. According to my sources most people are very unhappy with their job at Funcom, and things are getting worste every day regarding overtime and such.

Yeayea.. You're trying to say that anyone can spread rumors. When stuff get printed in newspapers and lots of people confirm it and explain themselves logically about the same things it can hardly be called rumors any longer, in contrast to your comment. Or did I misunderstand you?

Just to be clear: What Gurtelrose is saying is false, Funcom is changing for the better now. The LO, EL & IT Union said it themselves. That does not mean everything is fine and that they do not deserve to get bitch slapped for what they've done and are still doing. There is apparently a lot of problems there still, so I don't think the pressure should be lessened just yet. It's in Funcoms\AoCs\TSWs\etc best interest that the problems are solved, so I think both the AoC\Funcom lovers and haters should be glad that this is getting focus in public, because these problems could apparently not be solved without external pressure towards the management.

If any of you former FC staffers could answer this... I am very curious if FunCom has employee profit sharing or stock options as part of the pay package,  profit sharing is often a way to entice workers to go above and beyond their job desctiption / responsibilities because in the end it often pays off.

If not I can't see any reason to grind endless hours for free to make the owners / majority stockholders rich in the end.**

 ** Well in most cases just not this one (~cough~ nosedive~cough~)

Originally posted by Crashloop

Originally posted by Hamrtime2

 

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Originally posted by Crashloop

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Originally posted by Hamrtime2

 

 

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Once agian another xfire hater when it doesnt suit them. I guess AoC is the exception to the norm when it comes to xfire numbers.....nice try.
Thats why they are in debt over 16m right? Nice try again though.

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I find it interesting to see how much you hate funcom, is there any reason?

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I think that question can be asked to anyone who paid $50 or $100 (like me) for an incomplete game that was masked by lies and deception. There are too many reasons really but the last straw was when I got banned for 1 week from the forums for asking a question about memory leaks and other bugs (I think thats what it was). After I tried to get on the forums and found out I was banned, I canceled my subscription and deleted AoC from my computer. I vowed never to return until someone else takes over AoC.

I have never lied about anything in any post about AoC. I just tell it like it is and fanbois of Funcom cant stand it. I have even said good things about AoC. For example: Ive said that I think Tortage is the best noob area and leveling of any mmo Ive ever played. Too bad the rest of the game sucks.

 

Never lied eh? But how can you know that everything you have said can be backed up by facts?

you post a serious amount of crap you never will be able to back up with facts, and until you can prove it it will be a lie no natter what you claim.

Ummm.... No.

Lie (noun):
1. a false statement made with deliberate intent to deceive; an intentional untruth; a falsehood.
2. something intended or serving to convey a false impression; imposture: His flashy car was a lie that deceived no one.

Lie (verb):
1. to speak falsely or utter untruth knowingly, as with intent to deceive.

Saying something you believe to be true is not a lie.. even if it's proven wrong.

Saying something you know to be untrue is a lie.

People mis-use the words "lie" or "lying" or "liar" way too much.

About stock options, I don't think anybody got those, at least not for working over time. We did have a lot of bonus programs though, where we got some extra money depending on the amount of overtime we worked.

But I don't think anybody at Funcom really worked as much as they did because they wanted to get more money, or because they wanted to get promoted. The thing was that working overtime was just kind of the default, and you really had to be quite rebelious to just go home at 6.

^^

And Funcom isn't the only company I've worked for. I know pretty well that I'm far from incompetent.

Originally posted by Lieven

About stock options, I don't think anybody got those, at least not for working over time. We did have a lot of bonus programs though, where we got some extra money depending on the amount of overtime we worked.

But I don't think anybody at Funcom really worked as much as they did because they wanted to get more money, or because they wanted to get promoted. The thing was that working overtime was just kind of the default, and you really had to be quite rebelious to just go home at 6.

 

According to my Funcom friends they said that not everybody got bonuses. You, the render coders apparently had much better bonus deals than the rest. While other teams had other kinds of deals or nothing at all. This is why you were told not to mention your bonus system to anyone else in the company or outside the company, because it was really unfair aswell as highly illegal. The bonus deals were often very bad aswell, only worth 10-30% or so of what it would mean to you to get a minimum of 40% extra money for each overtime hour, like the law sais. In Funcom you did not even get basic pay for the overtime hours themselves, so that makes it 140% less than what you should have gotten. If you were one of the "lucky" ones to get any of these deals they would have such a nature that it did not matter how effective you worked, what mattered was how long you stayed at work, what you actually did was not of any matter.

Can you confirm this or is it false?

Originally posted by Yucko55

 

According to my Funcom friends they said that not everybody got bonuses. You, the render coders apparently had much better bonus deals than the rest. While other teams had other kinds of deals or nothing at all. This is why you were told not to mention your bonus system to anyone else in the company or outside the company, because it was really unfair aswell as highly illegal. The bonus deals were often very bad aswell, only worth 10-30% or so of what it would mean to you to get a minimum of 40% extra money for each overtime hour, like the law sais. In Funcom you did not even get basic pay for the overtime hours themselves, so that makes it 140% less than what you should have gotten. The bonus deals had such a nature that it did not matter how effective you worked, what mattered was how long you stayed at work, what you actually did was not of any matter.

Can you confirm this or is it false?

The bonus programs that we had were all hour based. They were not based on quality of delivery, hitting personal milestones or targets and actual work done. This lead to some people just spending a lot of time in the office and log hours in order to get a bonus. Thankfully there was not many of those people, but any bonus system that is purely based on hours and does not take work done or quality of work into account, will always bring out a few individuals who abuse the system.

It was interesting to note that quite a lot of employees actually voiced their concern and dislike to the bonus system. We all were in favour of a flat bonus program (provided there actually was money available for a bonus to be paid), but management wanted to enfore the high overtime environment. There was even a few individuals who said that they'd rather not take part in the bonus program, as they don't want anything to do with a system that encourages quantity over quality.

There was also bonus promised after launch, depending on the sale and subscription of the game - so i'd say that's a game performance based bonus system.

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Originally posted by ZeGerman1942

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Originally posted by Yucko55

 
According to my Funcom friends they said that not everybody got bonuses. You, the render coders apparently had much better bonus deals than the rest. While other teams had other kinds of deals or nothing at all. This is why you were told not to mention your bonus system to anyone else in the company or outside the company, because it was really unfair aswell as highly illegal. The bonus deals were often very bad aswell, only worth 10-30% or so of what it would mean to you to get a minimum of 40% extra money for each overtime hour, like the law sais. In Funcom you did not even get basic pay for the overtime hours themselves, so that makes it 140% less than what you should have gotten. The bonus deals had such a nature that it did not matter how effective you worked, what mattered was how long you stayed at work, what you actually did was not of any matter.
Can you confirm this or is it false?

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The bonus programs that we had were all hour based. They were not based on quality of delivery, hitting personal milestones or targets and actual work done. This lead to some people just spending a lot of time in the office and log hours in order to get a bonus. Thankfully there was not many of those people, but any bonus system that is purely based on hours and does not take work done or quality of work into account, will always bring out a few individuals who abuse the system.
It was interesting to note that quite a lot of employees actually voiced their concern and dislike to the bonus system. We all were in favour of a flat bonus program (provided there actually was money available for a bonus to be paid), but management wanted to enfore the high overtime environment. There was even a few individuals who said that they'd rather not take part in the bonus program, as they don't want anything to do with a system that encourages quantity over quality.
There was also bonus promised after launch, depending on the sale and subscription of the game - so i'd say that's a game performance based bonus system.

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Just out of curiousity, What was the mood at Funcom from employees and management when the game tanked? Im not sure if you were there or not durring this time but I bet all the canceled subs after the first month, it couldnt have been good.

Originally posted by ZeGerman1942

 

There was also bonus promised after launch, depending on the sale and subscription of the game - so i'd say that's a game performance based bonus system.

Did you get any of the bonus promises in writing? That would sound like pretty nice proof to have against them, because they are officially saying that Funcom employees do not work overtime systematicly. (sometimes they say that there is no overtime being worked at all, because Funcom can not afford to pay for it.)  Just call HR-Director Mr Kjetil Vaarlund and ask. If they did not give any of you guys bonus promises in writing this is also highly illegal according to Norwegian law, because such deals can easily be broken or not be of the same value they are promised to be.

I guess many employees must think that something is better than nothing though, right? Personally I would kick their butt if they tried such stunts on me, but then again it is easy to say that from the outside.

I was not there when the game "tanked" as you put it - which is why i don't want to say that the game "tanked" - as we don't have any real numbers at the moment.

And as far as i can remember no bonus program was ever confirmed in writing - but then again, very few companies i know lock themselves down with a written statement about bonus payments.

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Originally posted by ZeGerman1942
I was not there when the game "tanked" as you put it - which is why i don't want to say that the game "tanked" - as we don't have any real numbers at the moment.
And as far as i can remember no bonus program was ever confirmed in writing - but then again, very few companies i know lock themselves down with a written statement about bonus payments.

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Not sure about Norway but every company I have ever worked for has the bonus structure written down so there isn't any confusion or miscomunication when bonus time comes around.

As far as a discusion about whether AoC "tanked", I think its pretty much a fact now that AoC is second biggest failure in mmo history behind "dark and light".

Originally posted by Hamrtime2

 

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Originally posted by ZeGerman1942
I was not there when the game "tanked" as you put it - which is why i don't want to say that the game "tanked" - as we don't have any real numbers at the moment.
And as far as i can remember no bonus program was ever confirmed in writing - but then again, very few companies i know lock themselves down with a written statement about bonus payments.

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Not sure about Norway but every company I have ever worked for has the bonus structure written down so there isn't any confusion or miscomunication when bonus time comes around.

As far as a discusion about whether AoC "tanked", I think its pretty much a fact now that AoC is second biggest failure in mmo history behind "dark and light".

Bollocks, the game is fine and is very far from being a failure.

Speaking about overtime and stuff - Funcom did compensate for the overtime with an extra vacation days and bonuses, more or less fairly.

People who have left the company around the release date did not get it, of course.

It's a common practice in game development companies, though.

Frankly, I am sick looking at all the speculations people pull out of their butts here.

Originally posted by ruslans

 

Bollocks, the game is fine and is very far from being a failure.

Speaking about overtime and stuff - Funcom did compensate for the overtime with an extra vacation days and bonuses, more or less fairly.

People who have left the company around the release date did not get it, of course.

It's a common practice in game development companies, though.

Frankly, I am sick looking at all the speculations people pull out of their butts here.

Looks like people define failure and success in different ways. It seems some people, like you, think of a game that brings the company profit, even if it's minor, successfull.

Others think of it as not successfull, because it did not live up to it's hype( or\and lies ) and the vast majority of players fleed the game after a very short period of time.

I guess you're all kind of correct and I respect both views, but to call conan a big success would be the overstatement of the year IMO. It is not OK to lie like Funcom has and are still doing, and this have hurt their reputation a lot, which in turn will hurt the sale numbers for their next games. So even though AoC has brought a minor profit, Funcoms value as a company may might as well have declined because of the damage that has been done to the Funcom brand. (Now this is ofcouse educated speculation on my behalf, but sometimes I feel it is needed to further advance the discussion.)

And when it comes to speculations; I guess some are speculating, but there are also a big number of people that are not speculating, they, atleast to me, seem to tell the truth by explaining themselves concisely and logically about their experiences. You just can not put the Dagbladet article with LO: EL & IT in the same category as speculations either. I highly doubt "Arbeidstilsynet" would bother caring about speculations aswell.

There's been many ex-devs and devs that's been saying different stuff about overtime and bonuses and I have no reason to doubt any of them. Looks to me like the Funcom management has been treating them differently, that's all.

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Originally posted by Yucko55
...but to call conan a big success would be the overstatement of the year IMO.

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People like you never stop putting words in other people's mouth, eh?..
"Not a failure" does not necessarily mean "a big success", does it?..

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You just can not put the Dagbladet article with LO: EL & IT in the same category as speculations. I highly doubt "Arbeidstilsynet" would bother caring about specul"Not a failure" does not necessarily mean "a big success", does it?..ations aswell.

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Did I try to?.. Speaking about "speculations", I used the word here for a reason (even though thinking that media is completely free from making up stuff would be naive, at least).

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There's been many ex-devs and devs that's been saying different stuff about overtime and bonuses and I have no reason to doubt any of them.

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Ex-devs and devs will tell you a different things, since latter have more up to date experience and probably are less emotionally biased towards bitching.

Generally, it's stupid to base your opinion upon media and other people's words. Especially if it's an extreme opinion.