There is no point to large Boss fights in DF. Perhaps there will be some just for fun but remember ALL gear can be crafted. I REPEAT All GEAR CAN BE CRAFTED! There will be no glowy weapons that can only be obtained for killing x boss. Also, tagging doesn't matter cause every one can loot anything in this game (although you may get an alignment hit or turn grey, we don't really know the extent of the system yet). 

Originally posted by fusionx212

sorry to be so negative but if wow has all the resources. why havent they looked into open world dungeons instead of instanced. TBH i can't see darkfall pulling this one off. im looking forwared to the game tho and we'll see what treats it has to offer.

Eh, why hasnt wow made an engaging, fun crafting system instead of the auto-craft, crap excuse of one they have now? Why hasnt wow made a skill-based game instead of everyone having a stupid number over their head? 

Just because wow hasnt done it, doesnt mean it cant be done. Its just a different style of game, Blizzard has found success in the mediocore.

Originally posted by tubelight

 i think i'll be emptying some harddisk space to save all the /cry and "he griefed me" threads soon to be posted on DF forums. How much do you think i'll need? 100gb? :P

 

IMO, DF Forums should have a "Grieving Players" section :P

Oh you know it will happen!  To think otherwise would be very naive.

It will be up to the community to try and separate the true "griefers" from the "crybabies"  there will most likely be a fair amount of both... if history is any indication. 

There will be no hard and fast rules that everyone agrees to.  There will be some that think it is well within their right to kill and loot any and all of their own race; the consequences be damned. 

They will in turn spawn those who make it their sworn duty to protect against the afore-mentioned "griefers".  Which one is "more" right?  That will be for the community to judge. 

If it does get too far out of control I would assume the Devs will put some controls in place to make the deviance from what they consider "normal" be even more difficult to achieve.  That is thier role as developers.  The game has as much freedom as they are willing to allow us to have.  If they deem we have too much, they will temper it.  

Originally posted by safwd

I love open non instanced dungeons but it is going to be very difficult with FFA PVP trying to kill a boss (if there is any) and actually getting the loot as well.

Ninja Looting is definitely in. Plus what is to keep a large group of people from just sitting there and waiting for you to beat down the boss, and of course him beating down you, then just jumping you as soon as the fight is over. First targeting all your healers in the back of course.

Answer- Nothing.

sentrys, scouts, if you don't have them and the group waiting outside was following you guys long enough to realize your dungeon sprawling and organized enough to kill you, i'm kindof in favor of the guys who ganked you.

Brings back memories of seeing a gate open up in Deceit and killing everyone coming through it and then looting the house runes and house keys off the bodies to loot away. The thing people have to understand it's nothing personal it's part of the game so why complain.

It is one open world BUT there are instanced dungeons.

if these are shareabel or not i dont know , but there are instanced duengons so i have read.

Originally posted by Wildbeard

It is one open world BUT there are instanced dungeons.

if these are shareabel or not i dont know , but there are instanced duengons so i have read.

You are confusing two different things here. An instance is something that appears more that once and the players in said instance are seperate for each other. I think the way Darkfall works is the Dungeons will be 'Zoned' instead of instanced. By this i mean there is only 1 zone on the server which is accessible by everyone etc.

Originally posted by tro44_1

(....)

Also how extreme will these Dungons be. Will there be very large and cool boss fights?

I cant wait to see the Mass PvP going on during a boss fight. Be something like Old AV in wow or some Major City raid on Thrall

No different than WAR when players are trying to take a keep while another group of players jump in to kill you.

Originally posted by Triggger

Originally posted by tro44_1

WOW I wonder how this will be done.

It reminds me of the World Instances in Vanilla WoW (Before the nerf the world elites to normal mobs).

But I assume these dungons will have Improved loot. I just wonder how it will be done, and Balanced, so the server can handle many players fighting in the same area.

Also I hope the developers figure out a way to deal with the Mob taggers . (Well least Me and a group can try to kill the taggers if they get the loot)

Also how extreme will these Dungons be. Will there be very large and cool boss fights?

I cant wait to see the Mass PvP going on during a boss fight. Be something like Old AV in wow or some Major City raid on Thrall

Vanguard has uninstanced dungeons,it has been done since EQ1 you know.

Wrong... been done since UO

There are no instances in the sense that each group gets their own instance. There are a few instance dungeons, but everyone who goes in is in the same instance. But to prevent choke point/entrance camping, you are randomly dropped into the dungeon. At least, that was last we heard.

Originally posted by pewtpewt

There are no instances in the sense that each group gets their own instance. There are a few instance dungeons, but everyone who goes in is in the same instance. But to prevent choke point/entrance camping, you are randomly dropped into the dungeon. At least, that was last we heard.

I really hope that you are wrong about this.  If a group thinks they are bad ass enough to hold a choke point or entrance to a dungeon then more power to them, thats part of the game.  I hope the dungeons are done like Original EQ where its the same for everyone, no instancing.

I think that the devs just dont want a group of people sitting around in the main entrance killing people as they zone in. It is still possible to hold choke points, since its not like you will be dropped totally randomly "oh look, there is the boss! OMG!", but i think more in the sense that there is a maze of corridors/hallways/rooms that players spawn in, which all eventually lead up to the mobs and bosses, etc.

raids in runescape are like this. looting ninjas, baskstabbers who steal loot off other people, competetion for spot, people who just come along and loot the bodies of people.

utter choas. funnest raids EVAR.

Originally posted by dcoleman07

I hope the dungeons are done like Original EQ where its the same for everyone, no instancing.

This is correct, there is no instancing, and you can see into and out of the dungeon before you enter/leave it.

Originally posted by Loke666

Both EQ2 and AoC have non instanced dungeons (in AoCs case it is just some however, not all). It is not so fun as you might think, new players comming in all the time and with full loot they will attack you'r group while you just defeated a really hard boss and looted him but havn't got your life and mana up yet.

When too many players are in the same dungeon it just get lame, sure 2 groups competing could be fun, particulary if both enter from different ways in but 4 or 5 groups just get's chaos and it might be even more here.

LET THE QQ'ing BEGIN!!!

The challenge may be that Darkfall allows too much griefing, and will go the road of Shadowbane (aka, the toilet).

While EQ1 had the open dungeons, and ninja-looting abilities, most people did not play on a PvP server and the greater issues involved with PvP on top of those features may work well... or may be a nightmare.

All it will take is for one guild to grow large enough to monopolize a server... if that happens on each server, and people get fed p and quit, do you honestly think Darkfall will survive?

Hate the carebears or not, if you don't get some of them to play "your" game, it isn't going to last.

Originally posted by tro44_1

WOW I wonder how this will be done.

It reminds me of the World Instances in Vanilla WoW (Before the nerf the world elites to normal mobs).

But I assume these dungons will have Improved loot. I just wonder how it will be done, and Balanced, so the server can handle many players fighting in the same area.

Also I hope the developers figure out a way to deal with the Mob taggers . (Well least Me and a group can try to kill the taggers if they get the loot)

Also how extreme will these Dungons be. Will there be very large and cool boss fights?

I cant wait to see the Mass PvP going on during a boss fight. Be something like Old AV in wow or some Major City raid on Thrall

I believe mobs will not be tagged. Anyone reaching this dungeons can kill your raid boss and loot it. Thats they  way an open dungeons works: If they ninja loot you, kill them. This works for raid dungeons and normal pve fight, You kill a boar, a jackass comes out and ninja loot it, you kill him and recover your loot.

Awesome.

You are mining, some jackass appear and start mining in your spot, you kill him and take your ore.

More awesome.

You are peeing in a river, some jackass appear an pee higher in the river than you, you kill him and you have your pee.

Ah well, this last one looks kinda stupid...

Attention Players: To the left side of the plane you will see Dark Fall...To the right side you will see WoW and other instanced games where there is nothing to worry about but grind grind grind, uber gear, gold farmers, botters and "high number level" players that enjoy killing lowbies simply because they know that there is no way the lowbie can win. 

Now while Dark Fall Airlines does not deem to tell you which of you are HARDCORE and which of you are CAREBEARS we trust that in your soul you will know the truth and ask you to choose an exit accordingly.

Thank your for flying with us on Dark Fall Airlines and we hope that HARDCORE PLAYERS will return.  As for CAREBEARS please stop at the gift shops on your way out and enjoy buying as we know that you are well experienced in Cash Shop shopping.

Originally posted by KrystDaymen

Attention Players: To the left side of the plane you will see Dark Fall...To the right side you will see WoW and other instanced games where there is nothing to worry about but grind grind grind, uber gear, gold farmers, botters and "high number level" players that enjoy killing lowbies simply because they know that there is no way the lowbie can win. 

Now while Dark Fall Airlines does not deem to tell you which of you are HARDCORE and which of you are CAREBEARS we trust that in your soul you will know the truth and ask you to choose an exit accordingly.

Thank your for flying with us on Dark Fall Airlines and we hope that HARDCORE PLAYERS will return.  As for CAREBEARS please stop at the gift shops on your way out and enjoy buying as we know that you are well experienced in Cash Shop shopping.

Cute.  Except as someone else posted, if you don't get some of those carebears to stick around, you'll have a game with a very small population of hardcore players.

Even a game like EVE finds a way to placate they less violent player and keep them around, else who would we really prey on?

If we've learned anything in EVE, is when the stakes are high, and death is truly punitive, then smart players will work very hard to not get killed.  (which in turn means, they don't kill as much in return)

Should be interesting to see how it all plays out.

Originally posted by Kyleran

Originally posted by KrystDaymen

Attention Players: To the left side of the plane you will see Dark Fall...To the right side you will see WoW and other instanced games where there is nothing to worry about but grind grind grind, uber gear, gold farmers, botters and "high number level" players that enjoy killing lowbies simply because they know that there is no way the lowbie can win. 

Now while Dark Fall Airlines does not deem to tell you which of you are HARDCORE and which of you are CAREBEARS we trust that in your soul you will know the truth and ask you to choose an exit accordingly.

Thank your for flying with us on Dark Fall Airlines and we hope that HARDCORE PLAYERS will return.  As for CAREBEARS please stop at the gift shops on your way out and enjoy buying as we know that you are well experienced in Cash Shop shopping.

 

Cute.  Except as someone else posted, if you don't get some of those carebears to stick around, you'll have a game with a very small population of hardcore players.

Even a game like EVE finds a way to placate they less violent player and keep them around, else who would we really prey on?

If we've learned anything in EVE, is when the stakes are high, and death is truly punitive, then smart players will work very hard to not get killed.  (which in turn means, they don't kill as much in return)

Should be interesting to see how it all plays out.

 

There will be plenty of room for carebears in DFO.  Most of them will be the crafters and Crafters will be the most worshipped players in the game IMHO.  The "carebears" I'm talking about are the ones that consider themselves to be true "HardCore" pvp'rs and yet don't want to risk losing anything when they die or get killed.  PvP in an mmo is pointless if nothing is gained or lost by it.  You might as well play an FPS, and while I like true FPS games ( and yes I know that ranged combat will be in FPS mode) pvp with no consequences has no place in a persistent world.

DISCLAIMER: While the opinions stated in this post are those of the replier, they in no way represent the opinions of CareBears anywhere.

Thank you, Come Again.

DF is not just for hardcore PVPers, i think anyone who's sick of the static, scripted worlds and highly repetitive, dumbed-down content found in WOW/WAR/AoC would probably like Darkfall. The game has been built to appeal equally to both PVPers and PVEers.

Originally posted by javac

DF is not just for hardcore PVPers, i think anyone who's sick of the static, scripted worlds and highly repetitive, dumbed-down content found in WOW/WAR/AoC would probably like Darkfall. The game has been built to appeal equally to both PVPers and PVEers.

The only PVEers that will be be playing DFO are the "hardcore" PVPers who want some loot from mobs when they are little bored of ganking others.

Yes, the PVP game and PVE game will be viable...but people who do not like PVP will not like this game. The first time they are killed by another player and lose something they will log off and not come back. There are gamers that are looking forward to plopping down there subscription fee and playing DFO knowing they could lose tons of stuff from player killers and there are those that will not pay for such a service.

Originally posted by javac

DF is not just for hardcore PVPers, i think anyone who's sick of the static, scripted worlds and highly repetitive, dumbed-down content found in WOW/WAR/AoC would probably like Darkfall. The game has been built to appeal equally to both PVPers and PVEers.

I completely agree.  If I have given the impression that I don't want PVEers in the game I apologize.  My rants are more geared towards troll "pvp" players who want to pvp but don't want to lose anything if they lose.  As for PVE I surely hope that it will be as you say, and from the beta testers that I've heard from and from the in game gameplay footage I've seen I think PVE will be just as exciting, if not more so, than pvp.

Originally posted by KrystDaymen

Originally posted by Kyleran

Originally posted by KrystDaymen

Attention Players: To the left side of the plane you will see Dark Fall...To the right side you will see WoW and other instanced games where there is nothing to worry about but grind grind grind, uber gear, gold farmers, botters and "high number level" players that enjoy killing lowbies simply because they know that there is no way the lowbie can win. 

Now while Dark Fall Airlines does not deem to tell you which of you are HARDCORE and which of you are CAREBEARS we trust that in your soul you will know the truth and ask you to choose an exit accordingly.

Thank your for flying with us on Dark Fall Airlines and we hope that HARDCORE PLAYERS will return.  As for CAREBEARS please stop at the gift shops on your way out and enjoy buying as we know that you are well experienced in Cash Shop shopping.

 

Cute.  Except as someone else posted, if you don't get some of those carebears to stick around, you'll have a game with a very small population of hardcore players.

Even a game like EVE finds a way to placate they less violent player and keep them around, else who would we really prey on?

If we've learned anything in EVE, is when the stakes are high, and death is truly punitive, then smart players will work very hard to not get killed.  (which in turn means, they don't kill as much in return)

Should be interesting to see how it all plays out.

 

 

There will be plenty of room for carebears in DFO.  Most of them will be the crafters and Crafters will be the most worshipped players in the game IMHO.  The "carebears" I'm talking about are the ones that consider themselves to be true "HardCore" pvp'rs and yet don't want to risk losing anything when they die or get killed.  PvP in an mmo is pointless if nothing is gained or lost by it.  You might as well play an FPS, and while I like true FPS games ( and yes I know that ranged combat will be in FPS mode) pvp with no consequences has no place in a persistent world.

DISCLAIMER: While the opinions stated in this post are those of the replier, they in no way represent the opinions of CareBears anywhere.

Thank you, Come Again.

I sort of agree with your point  about pvp being worthless without gaining or losing something, but a lot of people will not be happy losing or gaining what DFO it offering.

No game has yet to instrument a PVP system that makes the majority of the player base want to PVP regardless of what is lost or gained. I don't see how Darkfall will be any different. Don't get me wrong, I'm eagerly awaiting DFO but I am a realist and know that DFO is not offering anything new.

Originally posted by Triggger

Originally posted by tro44_1

WOW I wonder how this will be done.

It reminds me of the World Instances in Vanilla WoW (Before the nerf the world elites to normal mobs).

But I assume these dungons will have Improved loot. I just wonder how it will be done, and Balanced, so the server can handle many players fighting in the same area.

Also I hope the developers figure out a way to deal with the Mob taggers . (Well least Me and a group can try to kill the taggers if they get the loot)

Also how extreme will these Dungons be. Will there be very large and cool boss fights?

I cant wait to see the Mass PvP going on during a boss fight. Be something like Old AV in wow or some Major City raid on Thrall

Vanguard has uninstanced dungeons,it has been done since EQ1 you know.

ya but what game would be a game without a reference to World of Crapshit