BW's were one of the most popular order classes at launch, and it was mainly due to a few skills being unintentionally OP, but for the most part, I didn't feel as though they needed the combustion nerf in addition to the over-arching skill nerfs.

My gripe is that they threw sorcs in the mix with the BW's and I always thought they were a little gimp anyway.  It shines light on the fact that boiling blood was the problem and not the combustion mechanic.  Also, since they increased EVERY OTHER class, it is bs that they gave an additional nerf to all sorc/bw dots by NOT increasing them as well.

At this juncture, sorcs and bw's cannot kill at a fair rate, this meaning that any class can kill a bw or sorc much faster than the sorc/bw can kill them.  The lack of defense is as true as ever, and the lack of crowd control is still the same, but now instead of hitting for 800-1200 a shot, we hit for 300-500.  When players have 8000+ hp end game, you can see how this leaves a player feeling a little limp.

Also, has anyone seen high level squig herders or Shadow warriors?!?!  They are insane since their damage scales with stats, gear and weapons!!  I got doinked for 1800 damage by a shadow warrior's standard attack (crit).  I haven't done that much damage in one attack.....  EVER!  and I have backlash.

No offense but BWs / Sorc's need to make friends with races that'll protect them or stay in the back I laugh my ass of f when either of them running into the front lines and wonder why they died. 

I play a Witch Hunter and my friend is a BW and we're a rather formidible pair.  Maybe if folks concentrated less on epeen and more on actually winning the fight PVP would be more interesting.

What happened was that they rebalanced both classes around damage figures that pre-dated the fixing of resistances.  So it's a double nerf.  At this point, both classes are playable, but really there are better DPS  classes on either side now, so why bother playing a class with a self-damaging mechanic?

Some people are sadistic and masochistic so they enjoy the BW / Sorc mechanic rofl.  To be honest they're rather handy to have and if played right they don't explode / kill themselves that often.  The whole point of the mechanic is too make their spells more and more and more powerful but have a negative to it being so powerful.   The negative is negible at best most of the times but if your already weak it will kill you and if that doesnt' teach you a lesson about controlling your powers then well nothing will.

Besides every group needs atleast 1 char that fantastic at AOE and thats usually the BW / Sorc if they're speaked in AOE's.

Yes I understand the reasoning behind the mechanic in general, but now that the damage has been so severely nerfed it makes much less sense.  The idea of being a high damage/high risk class made sense.  The idea of being a "same as other RDPS damage"/high risk makes much less sense to me.  While I'll agree that one or two may be useful to have around for AOEing, overall now you're much better off with other RDPS classes than you are with either of these, because the damage is more or less the same as the others and is much more risky due to the mechanic.  

IMO, it's broken at the moment.  The nerf was needed, but the double nerf was not.

completely agree with the double nerf comment.  Let me add some numbers to this:

I have 5200 hp (pretty decent for a sorc)

Opponent has 7500 hp (warrior priest and tanks can have up to 10000)

When I crit, I do 800 damage to him

When I backlash, I do 660 damage to myself. (non resistable)

If you do the math, I cannot kill him before killing myself.  And the dude can heal himself, and will likely be attacking me, even if I CAN keep him in range despite having NO cc.

Bottom line:

At high level, all classes have too much hp and resists for this mechanic to work without a huge damage increase in the crit level.  Any class can kill mine in less than 10 sec, and the only person I can kill in 10 sec. is myself.  This is why the class is broken.

WAR is not a solo game. The game is not balanced around 1v1, because then everyone close combat class (with WH and WE being the most superior) would be overpowered. You sit in the backline with a healer camping you and dish out fucktons of damage. And don't try to tell me BWs/Sorcs don't deal fucktons of damage, because they do.

Originally posted by Godliest

WAR is not a solo game. The game is not balanced around 1v1, because then everyone close combat class (with WH and WE being the most superior) would be overpowered. You sit in the backline with a healer camping you and dish out fucktons of damage. And don't try to tell me BWs/Sorcs don't deal fucktons of damage, because they do.

What's your point?  Of course ANY class is going to deal great damage with a healer camping them.  The problem is, the Sorc and BW can NOT do that type of damage unless a healer is on them constantly.  Take away the healer and they do the dps of others without the survivability.

And FYI- the role of the Sorc and BW IS dps.

Originally posted by JonMichael

Originally posted by Godliest

WAR is not a solo game. The game is not balanced around 1v1, because then everyone close combat class (with WH and WE being the most superior) would be overpowered. You sit in the backline with a healer camping you and dish out fucktons of damage. And don't try to tell me BWs/Sorcs don't deal fucktons of damage, because they do.

 

What's your point?  Of course ANY class is going to deal great damage with a healer camping them.  The problem is, the Sorc and BW can NOT do that type of damage unless a healer is on them constantly.  Take away the healer and they do the dps of others without the survivability.

And FYI- the role of the Sorc and BW IS dps.

 

I totally agree with you. It's like all these people who are thrilled with the nerf didnt want the class to exist to begin with. Then they use the lame excuse that its because you arnt playing your class right which is why you arnt doing good DPS or dying too much. The class is broken.  This is the only game I have ever played where the DPS class on average isnt doing the most DPS. I normally on the Order Side am in the top 4 in kills or DPS, but I shouldnt have a Archmage doing more DPS, or a tank for that matter which I see frequently. This guys comments above are ridiculous. I can focus everything I have on a tank and I can almost never kill them alone because they are ALSO getting healed...let alone if they dont have a healer. Healers dont just focus on Bright Wizard. Personally, I think they should have the healers and the witch elves also self explode. Whats the difference since we are no longer the leading DPS class? lol

1v1 is what I am talking about, in addition to team play.

What I am saying is that a geared out sorc cannot kill a moderately geared tank (which they are supposed to be good at) before they kill themselves from backlash.  This is if the tank DOESN"T FIGHT BACK and the sorc just spams attacks.

Tanks have enough resists and tons of hp, so that I take a larger percent of my own health than I deal to them.  I could throw out the math, but it's a pretty easy fact that if I do 2/3 the damage back on myself, that the tank only needs 33% more health OR resist to be equal, and they have almost double (+100%) in both catagories.

That is not to mention that I cannot keep them from running up in my face...  So just like WH's are supposed to kill casters, we are supposed to kill tanks... and we just don't.

Just imagine if WH's simply couldn't kill sorcs/BW's....  people would throw a fit.

guys one question .. im rolling a sorc too ... so im just wondering how many mobs can u sorcerers out there take at once ? in pve that is ..

The nerf did exactly as all the Sorc/Bw`s feared.  The forums was full of threads begging Mythic and the nerfcallers to wait with changes untill t4 had been setled, with decent gear and ranks. They all predicted vast loss in dps when resistence would start to reach high values. But Mythic couldnt withstand the pressure from the t2 and t3  players massive whines and made this knee jerk nerf which basicly made me quit Warhammer. A  fragile dps class which are penalized very hard for his average dps - a clearly broken concept.

Sad direction WAR have taken.

Originally posted by Beso1337

guys one question .. im rolling a sorc too ... so im just wondering how many mobs can u sorcerers out there take at once ? in pve that is ..

Solo, I advice one.  With a healer, several depending in your rank and the level of the mobs (and how are you speced, of course).  With a healer and a tank, it's just insane.

Originally posted by smitty0356

BW's were one of the most popular order classes at launch, and it was mainly due to a few skills being unintentionally OP, but for the most part, I didn't feel as though they needed the combustion nerf in addition to the over-arching skill nerfs.

My gripe is that they threw sorcs in the mix with the BW's and I always thought they were a little gimp anyway.  It shines light on the fact that boiling blood was the problem and not the combustion mechanic.  Also, since they increased EVERY OTHER class, it is bs that they gave an additional nerf to all sorc/bw dots by NOT increasing them as well.

At this juncture, sorcs and bw's cannot kill at a fair rate, this meaning that any class can kill a bw or sorc much faster than the sorc/bw can kill them.  The lack of defense is as true as ever, and the lack of crowd control is still the same, but now instead of hitting for 800-1200 a shot, we hit for 300-500.  When players have 8000+ hp end game, you can see how this leaves a player feeling a little limp.

Also, has anyone seen high level squig herders or Shadow warriors?!?!  They are insane since their damage scales with stats, gear and weapons!!  I got doinked for 1800 damage by a shadow warrior's standard attack (crit).  I haven't done that much damage in one attack.....  EVER!  and I have backlash.

I frequently hit for over 2k on my sorc... hell I frequently kill people in 3 spells... its you spec.  Also the combustion / dark magic nerf is hardly a nerf...you can still preload it and just hit your instaaoe to keep it up..its not hard...

There is no reason anyone should play a BW after the changes.  Tanks do more damage.

As a resident rabid fanboi I have to AGREE with the OP.

This nerf to BWs (and sorcs to a lesser degree) is one of the few BAD moves by Mythic since the release. They made one of the most fun and original classes almost unplayable and quite pointless...

I really hope they change that soon. The point of BWs was "living on the edge". People playing them wanted to play crazy mf nukers so awesome they can kill themselves by sheer awesomeness of their DPS. That's what BWs were all about - you feared no one but yourself - a good BW would take more damage from himself than from his opponents. All else aside this combustion nerf makes BWs meh to play... if BWs had to be nerfed then their weaknesses should have been emphasized by making them even more squishy. Nerfing burst dps and compensating it by decreasing blowback damage just makes them pointless - no thrill there. You'll have more fun playing some other ranged DPS class.