Originally posted by Mrbloodworth

Originally posted by Abrahmm

It's weird, I keep seeing the exact same two or three people telling us how great this is, how it is not a big deal, or in the case of Mrbloodsworth, just making stuff up. And I see a ton of people complaining about how bad it is. Do these people really think they are going to convince everyone else that RMT is awesome? I mean come on seriously?

 

I’m not talking out my ass. It’s called reality. I have however concluded that most of you are comfortable in your ignorance, and simply want to bitch about something. Also no one said it was awesome, I already said I didn’t agree with it, but what I was attempting to do, was correct the misconceptions going on here, that is just perpetuating the stupidity.

So I will leave you to it.
Enjoy the sensationalist drama.

 

Really? Correct the misconception you have created that RMT != microtransactions, even though they refer to the exact same thing? Or claiming fluff DOESN'T count as the "in game items" SOE promised they would never sell in a cash shop? The only misconceptions people have are the ones made up by you.

Originally posted by Lydon

Originally posted by Mrbloodworth 

I’m not talking out my ass. It’s called reality. I have however concluded that most of you are comfortable in your ignorance, and simply want to bitch about something. Also no one said it was awesome, I already said I didn’t agree with it, but what I was attempting to do, was correct the misconceptions going on here, that is just perpetuating the stupidity.

So I will leave you to it.
Enjoy the sensationalist drama.

 

And that, people, is how you realise you've lost an argument and try but fail to save face with the "you're wrong no matter how logical your arguments may be" argument.

As i said, its pointless to discuss it, as to many here are simply just wanting to bitch. If you see this as some sort of "winning", more power to you.

Originally posted by brostyn 

They absolutely will not be selling top end gear. Its easy to understand why they wouldn't. If they did you'd get all the best gear instantly, and have no motivation to continue to play. Cash shops typically don't sell gear. They sell potions that increase XP or coin lool, mounts, cool looking clothes, and other items that have less of an impact on the game.

A few years ago I would have said SOE would never endorse players selling characters and items to each other in game for real life cash.

A few years ago I would have said SOE would never sell in game items directly to player for cash.

A few years ago I would have said SOE would never hire the CEO of a major gold selling site for a position they created specifically for him.

A few years ago I would have said SOE would never sell in game items through a virtual card game to players for real life cash.

A few years ago I would have said SOE would never partner up with a company specifically designed to sell virtual items to players for real money.

I remember a time when SOE stated these types of things hurt thier games and they would do everything they can to stop them.

Considering all of what has happened in the last few years I don't think anyone can say with any degree of certainty what sort of limits SOE might have on what items they will sell.  

Since SOE and Smedley are proven liars, why would anyone believe anything they say?

Originally posted by Daffid011

Originally posted by brostyn 

They absolutely will not be selling top end gear. Its easy to understand why they wouldn't. If they did you'd get all the best gear instantly, and have no motivation to continue to play. Cash shops typically don't sell gear. They sell potions that increase XP or coin lool, mounts, cool looking clothes, and other items that have less of an impact on the game.

 

A few years ago I would have said SOE would never endorse players selling characters and items to each other in game for real life cash.

A few years ago I would have said SOE would never sell in game items directly to player for cash.

A few years ago I would have said SOE would never hire the CEO of a major gold selling site for a position they created specifically for him.

A few years ago I would have said SOE would never sell in game items through a virtual card game to players for real life cash.

A few years ago I would have said SOE would never partner up with a company specifically designed to sell virtual items to players for real money.

 

I remember a time when SOE stated these types of things hurt thier games and they would do everything they can to stop them.

 

Considering all of what has happened in the last few years I don't think anyone can say with any degree of certainty what sort of limits SOE might have on what items they will sell.  

Very true, but all of that just reflects the state of the current industry, and what is needed to stay competitive.

Players (on the whole) want the things listed above, or they would not do it.

all SOE removed from my pc, all subs cancelled, one pos company

Originally posted by Mrbloodworth

Originally posted by Lydon

Originally posted by Mrbloodworth 

I’m not talking out my ass. It’s called reality. I have however concluded that most of you are comfortable in your ignorance, and simply want to bitch about something. Also no one said it was awesome, I already said I didn’t agree with it, but what I was attempting to do, was correct the misconceptions going on here, that is just perpetuating the stupidity.

So I will leave you to it.
Enjoy the sensationalist drama.

 

And that, people, is how you realise you've lost an argument and try but fail to save face with the "you're wrong no matter how logical your arguments may be" argument.

As i said, its pointless to discuss it, as to many here are simply just wanting to bitch. If you see this as some sort of "winning", more power to you.

 

Originally posted by Mrbloodworth

Originally posted by Daffid011

Originally posted by brostyn 

They absolutely will not be selling top end gear. Its easy to understand why they wouldn't. If they did you'd get all the best gear instantly, and have no motivation to continue to play. Cash shops typically don't sell gear. They sell potions that increase XP or coin lool, mounts, cool looking clothes, and other items that have less of an impact on the game.

 

A few years ago I would have said SOE would never endorse players selling characters and items to each other in game for real life cash.

A few years ago I would have said SOE would never sell in game items directly to player for cash.

A few years ago I would have said SOE would never hire the CEO of a major gold selling site for a position they created specifically for him.

A few years ago I would have said SOE would never sell in game items through a virtual card game to players for real life cash.

A few years ago I would have said SOE would never partner up with a company specifically designed to sell virtual items to players for real money.

 

I remember a time when SOE stated these types of things hurt thier games and they would do everything they can to stop them.

 

Considering all of what has happened in the last few years I don't think anyone can say with any degree of certainty what sort of limits SOE might have on what items they will sell.  

Very true, but all of that just reflects the state of the current industry, and what is needed to stay competitive.

Players (on the whole) want the things listed above, or they would not do it.

 

How many other companies are not doing that and still remaining competitive. I am certain we will not see any amount of new players joining EQ/EQ2 to get at these features and both games have said in the past they do not want them.

The fact is that SOE was once the leader in the industry and now they are mere shadow of their former self.  Part of that reason is because they keep doing the things I listed above.

None of those changes will make them competitive in their current lineup.  In fact it is hurting their reputation and give they naysayers proof their words cannot be trusted.  As I look around I don't see other companies thrusting RMT on their current games to stay competitive.  

Just like when SOE tried selling single dungeons for 9 bucks while their competitors were giving them free to their subscribers.  SOEs idea of competitive seems to be squeezing money out of the few people they still have as long as they generate enough to compensate for the people they chase away.

Honestly the vibe I am getting from SOE is desperation. 

as i see it the RMT esque cash shop will only hurt the game they're saying its only fluff items ... for now. SOE will get lazy and when they go to add something that should be implimented already they will charge extra for it. and idk if any of you ever looked at cash shops most of the fluff items don't last long so if you want to keep wearing that looks cool item you have to keep buyin it week after week. and i wouldn't doubt they'll start giving bounus in game money with your purchase of you tiny blob pet. the game S4 has totally fluff items but if you buy one it comes with in game cash as a bonus. used taht as a refrence as its the only cash shop i ever looked at.

and the fact that he would say without certainty in that interview with tenton, that they wouldn't sell any stat gear of any kind says something.uber gear or not they should NEVER sell anything with any type of stats in the shop. and future games they release i foresee being insane grinds (worse than eq1 ever was)with cash shops so if you want to lvl at a usual pace you'll HAVE TO buy the exp potions like the asian grinder chash shops out now.

Originally posted by Daffid011

The fact is that SOE was once the leader in the industry and now they are mere shadow of their former self.  Part of that reason is because they keep doing the things I listed above.

A much bigger reason is that Blizzard simply made a much more accessible, much more polished game and they had a stellar reputation for putting out quality games.

SOE was already on shaky ground long before anything on your list, and yet they're still in business. Someone out there clearly likes playing their games enough to keep them going despite all the forum drama that SOE's business decisions ignite.

Originally posted by Lidane

Originally posted by Daffid011

The fact is that SOE was once the leader in the industry and now they are mere shadow of their former self.  Part of that reason is because they keep doing the things I listed above.

A much bigger reason is that Blizzard simply made a much more accessible, much more polished game and they had a stellar reputation for putting out quality games.

SOE was already on shaky ground long before anything on your list, and yet they're still in business. Someone out there clearly likes playing their games enough to keep them going despite all the forum drama that SOE's business decisions ignite.

Actually, Sony has a problem of bankrolling losing products -- PS3 -- is a prime example. By any industry standard it should've been scrapped over a year ago, solely on selling it for cheaper than it can be made  (how to lose not only the console wars, but the company's shirt, even).

With EQ1 and EQ2 (and their other titles) SoE is more into keeping them alive to show they have something on the market, not so much as it making money (it won't, like many MMOs due to the fad nature of WoW).

What kills SoE the most is their almost dead marketing department. Ever since Sony movies got caught paying for fake reviews (anyone remember that?) let alone some other marketing snafus, marketing has been mouse quiet.

Once a company not only lies about a movie; now their games; it's pretty difficult for customers to believe anything from corporate (or maybe their paid salesmen on forums).

Originally posted by Lidane

Originally posted by Daffid011

The fact is that SOE was once the leader in the industry and now they are mere shadow of their former self.  Part of that reason is because they keep doing the things I listed above.

A much bigger reason is that Blizzard simply made a much more accessible, much more polished game and they had a stellar reputation for putting out quality games.

SOE was already on shaky ground long before anything on your list, and yet they're still in business. Someone out there clearly likes playing their games enough to keep them going despite all the forum drama that SOE's business decisions ignite.

Shaky ground when?  Except for after WoW launched could you detail it for me?

The reason I ask is.. outside of asian games that have had huge subscriber numbers (but failed in western markets).

Just before WoW launched...

SOE had the number 1 (non asian) subscriber MMO with EQ..

and the number 2 (non asian) subscriber MMO with SWG.

450,000 or so with EQ and 300,000'ish with SWG.

Then WoW launched and EQ was suddenly "old" and SWG was a "failure".

Aside from that I think SOE was doing pretty well until that point.

My personal feeling is almost every decision that's been made since 2005 has been the wrong one.  They keep going even further in the wrong direction and keep getting the same results.  Somehow they seem to think if they go "wrong" enough things will turn around.  Personally I would have changed direction a long time ago.

You'll also notice that most of the people who made "good" stuff with SOE and are still in the industry..

Now either work for:

1) BioWare

or

2) 38 Studio's.

There are some in other places but Schillings company in paticular has taken a lot of people from SOE.

Probably the biggest issue for SOE right now is in my opinion they don't really have much talent and/or those people are NOT in a place to make decisions.  Yet they continually promote people who are experts in failing.

Like.. I wouldn't have promoted Chris Cao to be the lead on anything other than .. well I can't think of anything I would hire him to do to be hoenst.  I certainly wouldn't have him leading my team on DC Universe tho... if I wanted it to have a chance in the market.

That's just me tho..

*edited to add*

If you were stating that Sony Corp was on shaky ground instead of SOE "before that" then I would have agreed.  In order to sell TV's for a long time they had to buy picture tubes from .. I believe it was Samsung (it was a Korean company and a rival not sure it was samsung).

Sony was mostly known for electronics but was losing the market.  Before they hired Sir Howard they had admitted they had lost touch with their customers.  Oddly enough SOE pretty much takes that little comment and is a big glowing example of it.

It was perhaps the guy in charge before "Sir Howard" that made the comment about being out of touch with their customers.

To bad they don't actually try to fix that on every level.  And yes the PS3 has lost them a lot of money.  While Xbox 360 may have lost money for microsoft.. M$ was making money in other places.  Sony had two divisions floating the entire corporation.. that's not good.

Originally posted by Antarious

Originally posted by Lidane

Originally posted by Daffid011

The fact is that SOE was once the leader in the industry and now they are mere shadow of their former self.  Part of that reason is because they keep doing the things I listed above.

A much bigger reason is that Blizzard simply made a much more accessible, much more polished game and they had a stellar reputation for putting out quality games.

SOE was already on shaky ground long before anything on your list, and yet they're still in business. Someone out there clearly likes playing their games enough to keep them going despite all the forum drama that SOE's business decisions ignite.

 

Shaky ground when?  Except for after WoW launched could you detail it for me?

The reason I ask is.. outside of asian games that have had huge subscriber numbers (but failed in western markets).

Just before WoW launched...

SOE had the number 1 (non asian) subscriber MMO with EQ..

and the number 2 (non asian) subscriber MMO with SWG.

450,000 or so with EQ and 300,000'ish with SWG.

Then WoW launched and EQ was suddenly "old" and SWG was a "failure".

Aside from that I think SOE was doing pretty well until that point.

My personal feeling is almost every decision that's been made since 2005 has been the wrong one.  They keep going even further in the wrong direction and keep getting the same results.  Somehow they seem to think if they go "wrong" enough things will turn around.  Personally I would have changed direction a long time ago.

You'll also notice that most of the people who made "good" stuff with SOE and are still in the industry..

Now either work for:

1) BioWare

or

2) 38 Studio's.

There are some in other places but Schillings company in paticular has taken a lot of people from SOE.

Probably the biggest issue for SOE right now is in my opinion they don't really have much talent and/or those people are in a place to make decisions.  Yet they continually promote people who are experts in failing.

Like.. I wouldn't have promoted Chris Cao to be the lead on anything other than .. well I can't think of anything I would hire him to do to be hoenst.  I certainly wouldn't have him leading my team on DC Universe tho... if I wanted it to have a chance in the market.

That's just me tho..

you win this thread..seriously....someone with a brain finally shows up /hi5. And lets not forget also: PS2 was PROFOUND success, prove me otherwise, i dare ya.

Originally posted by miagisan

you win this thread..seriously....someone with a brain finally shows up /hi5. And lets not forget also: PS2 was PROFOUND success, prove me otherwise, i dare ya.

Well I don't think I'm overly brainy its just fairly obvious and I had forgotten a word in there altho I edited it after.

If they actually have any talent its NOT in a position to make decisions.  I kinda forgot the "not" part the first time.

The PS2 was obviously a huge success.  Which leads me to thinking at times.. Smed won't get fired.  When they get sick of the extra losses.. anything with "SOE" on it will just not exist.

They will keep playstation over SOE for the simple matter that more people recognize it and SOE is a fairly small part of their corporation.  Now that SOE is part of the same division they can just keep what they need for the "live" services and dump the rest.

Which is in my opinion where things will be.. if somebody doesn't wake the F up.

Originally posted by Antarious

Originally posted by Lidane

Originally posted by Daffid011

The fact is that SOE was once the leader in the industry and now they are mere shadow of their former self.  Part of that reason is because they keep doing the things I listed above.

A much bigger reason is that Blizzard simply made a much more accessible, much more polished game and they had a stellar reputation for putting out quality games.

SOE was already on shaky ground long before anything on your list, and yet they're still in business. Someone out there clearly likes playing their games enough to keep them going despite all the forum drama that SOE's business decisions ignite.

 

Shaky ground when?  Except for after WoW launched could you detail it for me?

The reason I ask is.. outside of asian games that have had huge subscriber numbers (but failed in western markets).

Just before WoW launched...

SOE had the number 1 (non asian) subscriber MMO with EQ..

and the number 2 (non asian) subscriber MMO with SWG.

450,000 or so with EQ and 300,000'ish with SWG.

Then WoW launched and EQ was suddenly "old" and SWG was a "failure".

Aside from that I think SOE was doing pretty well until that point.

My personal feeling is almost every decision that's been made since 2005 has been the wrong one.  They keep going even further in the wrong direction and keep getting the same results.  Somehow they seem to think if they go "wrong" enough things will turn around.  Personally I would have changed direction a long time ago.

You'll also notice that most of the people who made "good" stuff with SOE and are still in the industry..

Now either work for:

1) BioWare

or

2) 38 Studio's.

There are some in other places but Schillings company in paticular has taken a lot of people from SOE.

Probably the biggest issue for SOE right now is in my opinion they don't really have much talent and/or those people are NOT in a place to make decisions.  Yet they continually promote people who are experts in failing.

Like.. I wouldn't have promoted Chris Cao to be the lead on anything other than .. well I can't think of anything I would hire him to do to be hoenst.  I certainly wouldn't have him leading my team on DC Universe tho... if I wanted it to have a chance in the market.

That's just me tho..

*edited to add*

If you were stating that Sony Corp was on shaky ground instead of SOE "before that" then I would have agreed.  In order to sell TV's for a long time they had to buy picture tubes from .. I believe it was Samsung (it was a Korean company and a rival not sure it was samsung).

Sony was mostly known for electronics but was losing the market.  Before they hired Sir Howard they had admitted they had lost touch with their customers.  Oddly enough SOE pretty much takes that little comment and is a big glowing example of it.

It was perhaps the guy in charge before "Sir Howard" that made the comment about being out of touch with their customers.

To bad they don't actually try to fix that on every level.  And yes the PS3 has lost them a lot of money.  While Xbox 360 may have lost money for microsoft.. M$ was making money in other places.  Sony had two divisions floating the entire corporation.. that's not good.

SOE was making major mistakes with their playerbase before 2005, such as the player boycott that lead to the infamous player summit.  They simply new they were the only game in town and their actions reflected that.  When some new games finally came out that were not utter garbage people flocked away.  There was finally another choice in a few games. 

For a very long time SOE has been giving its customers numerous reasons to leave. 

I've also noticed that the talent at SOE seems to be moving away from the company to greener pastures. 

WoW sure hurt SOE, but there have been a number of other games that still do well.  Some better than SOE while being much smaller companies.  Even the overhyped lackluster releases are outpeforming SOE titles.  

There is a large number of reasons why things ended up the way they did from WoW to SOEs treatment of their customers to rushing out unfinished products.  The overall summary is that the company isn't being run very well and makes far to many mistakes.

Sure some people like their games and that keeps them in business, but at their current pace something drastic needs to change or that will come to an end.

Originally posted by Antarious

Which leads me to thinking at times.. Smed won't get fired.

Sony just fired 15000 people without blinking last week. You think his job is safe? He's one step away from being fired.

In total they fired 50.000 people in december.

Originally posted by miagisan 

you win this thread..seriously....someone with a brain finally shows up /hi5. And lets not forget also: PS2 was PROFOUND success, prove me otherwise, i dare ya.

What does the PS2 have to do with anything?  Does that somehow make SOE better?

hehe bump

SOE has never created a really successful game. They hit the jackpot when they bought the company that was designing EQ, but look what they've produced since then - SWG, which they ran into the ground, Planetside, which they let whither on the vine...the closest they've come to success was EQII, a mediocre game that rode EQ1's wave and would have been a complety pedestrian offering if it wasn't for the EQ brand.

Originally posted by Daffid011

Originally posted by miagisan 

you win this thread..seriously....someone with a brain finally shows up /hi5. And lets not forget also: PS2 was PROFOUND success, prove me otherwise, i dare ya.

 

What does the PS2 have to do with anything?  Does that somehow make SOE better?

Yeah, SOE has nothing to do with Sony's other departments...SOE is responsible for MMORGs and thats about it.