I ve tried almost every mmorpg so far and here are my conclusions conserning what DF; combat system will bring /change in mmorpg world compared to other games combat mechanics/systems:

1.I always hated the fact that there is an invisible sheild in higher lvl players that allows them to crit more and get less crits upon them vs lower lvl players  (WOW).... THIS does not exist in DF.

2.automated attack system that all known mmorpgs use so far L2 ,WOW ,WAR, e.t.c. Aids greately  numbers vs quality and skill of a player since there is nothing u can do to avoi a spell that was launched or an arrow since its like an abraam missle that has ayto-guidance system and they can go through trees even mountains till they land upon you. This combat system also aids greately ganging (example 3-4 ppl attacking 1 poor guy) since all the auto -attacks arrows, melle attacks . stuns ,cc, spells will land on him .In DF you have chances to survive if you are skilled , you can avoid arrows ,spells ,block and parry manually when u think you should and along with friendly fire or do soem manuevrs kill 1-2 from 4 and then run yes you have the chance to kill em or survive . The combat  's result  lays upon the skill and not in numbers.

3. Gear .... In all mmorpgs so far u start the loot race and boring farming since its usually 80% gear rest 20% specc avatars skills and ofc player skill. THIS does not exist in DF. Gear helps but in a much lesser degree . Its more like 80% player skill and character build and 20% gear ( maybe less).. That  stucks also with the fact that if u die they can loot you some items so it wont be a catastrophie if u loose them ( easy to replace them with similar or just abit worst items)

4. Almost every friend i have that plays rpgames would love to see an mmo version of oblivion cause of the great combats . The immersion ,the tactical aspect, you move some steps around the the enemy yielding your sword then couple steps fast in front and the sword landing in oponent's plate ,the clanging sounds of weapons its just ... everything . AOC was an exception from other games but it had serious problems in blocking /parrying manually , archers  wasnt exactly manual aiming  (big disapointment) and it was mostly spamming attacks and combos no tactical sense just spamming  making comats look like benny hill movies with both opponents running around and spamming attacks . DDO was semi aytomated since all guys i know enabled ayto attacks after a period . These things do not happen in DF. Archery and spells are manual aiming and that alone gives me extra motive to make a ranger /hunter alike class like i did in oblivion.

5.No lvls just skills. In fact its like oblivion's advanement system ,using swords increasing sword skil e.t.c.  Raising the skills is aqustion cause pve has nothing to do with wow l2 farming mobs pew pew next mob pew pew. mobs are clever all beta testers tend to agree on that ,mobs can even loot you. Will it be tiring? If we are talking about a wow born and raised boy yes. He will hate the fact he got owned by a simple goblin. He thoguht he was a hero , btu he died from a goblin. Thats the wow ' smoto isnt it ? Join 8 million heroes! Ha! Cruel world. In DF not all are heroes , they are heroes to be . Whatever you become in DF though it will be your desicion and whatever you accomplish in game will be made by your sword and cunning mind and ofc good teamwork with your guildies.So is DF's combat system  a driveaway for wow L2 boys? No! Its more like a clear invitation in order to join the best fighters along the world in acruel and immersive world where true adventuring  non-instancing (cough cough AOC)  world.

Concerns? Lattency.. lagg For such amanul combat mmorpg u need very good server and quality in the latt so there wont be great diferences in players latt, at least not in such degree that will deside the combats results.

I

Yep, all of this makes for a more tactical, skillfull, fun and rewarding system in my opinion. It will be much fun actually having more control over your actions in comparison to the autoaim combat system.

Darkfall isn't the first to introduce a system like this.

Neocron, a game from 2003, is using such a system. it didn't have levels, just skill caps. it also had a system similar to Oblivion's, where you level up attributes by doing actions which are linked to it. the combat is in FPS/TPS (yeah you could change camera position, unlike DF). also, gear was not as important in this game, the main focus was PVPing. the game during beta test had partial PVP looting system; when a person died, one of his items was dropped to the ground (I got a really awesome weapon this way, it was cool). when it launched, the PVP loot system was dumbed down but was still present.

Fallen Earth, a game currently in Alpha state, uses such a system as well. real time FPS/TPS combat system, with no classes (does have levels though). also focuses on PVP, but has a lot of PVE elements and content.

so basically, DF brings nothing new unless it does it REALLY good, which is not easy.

Originally posted by dropp

Darkfall isn't the first to introduce a system like this.

Neocron, a game from 2003, is using such a system. it didn't have levels, just skill caps. it also had a system similar to Oblivion's, where you level up attributes by doing actions which are linked to it. the combat is in FPS/TPS (yeah you could change camera position, unlike DF). also, gear was not as important in this game, the main focus was PVPing. the game during beta test had partial PVP looting system; when a person died, one of his items was dropped to the ground (I got a really awesome weapon this way, it was cool). when it launched, the PVP loot system was dumbed down but was still present.

Fallen Earth, a game currently in Alpha state, uses such a system as well. real time FPS/TPS combat system, with no classes (does have levels though). also focuses on PVP, but has a lot of PVE elements and content.

 

so basically, DF brings nothing new unless it does it REALLY good, which is not easy.

 

 

Well I haven't played Necron is it an MMO?

and since fallen earth will not release until AFTER DF, by all definitions fallen earth will not bring anything new to the table, since DF already did that. Or am I missing something here??

It's Necron 2 now, and yes it's an MMO. It's basically dead though, they get a few hundred players online at peak times last time I checked. It's F2P now too, if I'm remembering correctly...

Shame because it was pretty cool.

Originally posted by nileq

Originally posted by dropp

Darkfall isn't the first to introduce a system like this.

Neocron, a game from 2003, is using such a system. it didn't have levels, just skill caps. it also had a system similar to Oblivion's, where you level up attributes by doing actions which are linked to it. the combat is in FPS/TPS (yeah you could change camera position, unlike DF). also, gear was not as important in this game, the main focus was PVPing. the game during beta test had partial PVP looting system; when a person died, one of his items was dropped to the ground (I got a really awesome weapon this way, it was cool). when it launched, the PVP loot system was dumbed down but was still present.

Fallen Earth, a game currently in Alpha state, uses such a system as well. real time FPS/TPS combat system, with no classes (does have levels though). also focuses on PVP, but has a lot of PVE elements and content.

 

so basically, DF brings nothing new unless it does it REALLY good, which is not easy.

 

 

 

Well I haven't played Necron is it an MMO?

and since fallen earth will not release until AFTER DF, by all definitions fallen earth will not bring anything new to the table, since DF already did that. Or am I missing something here??

yup, Necocron (EDIT: yeah, guy above me is correct, it's called Neocron 2 now. but I don't think it's F2P; I'm pretty sure it's buy the game+5$/month) is sci-fi MMO. it's a great game, but it has issues (bugs, crashes, low pop, etc). though it's very cheap right now.

true, but FE was also in development for a long while, and this system was in mind from day one I guess. anyway, you can get in Alpha right now (forums.fallenearth.com/fallenearth/showthread.php ; I won't say what I think of the alpha so far because of the NDA), while getting to Darkfall's beta is virtually impossible unless you're really lucky.

IMO, the thing that bothers me the most about DF is the fact that the game launches next month yet very few seem to be in beta, while a game such as Fallen Earth offers access to the game in its ALPHA STATE!

sure, DF sounds like a great game.. but I just hope they'll manage to fix any game-breaking bugs and server-side issues before the game launches next month.

i agree with dropp, neocron was very fps like and pvp oriented, even had factions like darkfall. darkfall isnt inventing anything new there.

neocron was really a great game just suffered from low population issues,  maybe due to lack of marketing?

How will they prevent people from using Macros to lvl up skills?

Is there some kind of "endurance or energy" system to lose it while jumping or will the game be all about "bunny hopping"  while swinging that spiked spatula looking weapon that everyone is using in the video.

Originally posted by stonylein

i agree with dropp, neocron was very fps like and pvp oriented, even had factions like darkfall. darkfall isnt inventing anything new there.

 

neocron was really a great game just suffered from low population issues,  maybe due to lack of marketing?

yeah, you're probably right... they really did a bad job with the marketing. I'm pretty sure that the bugs (which I left because) didn't help either

all games with FPS combat before Darkfall where Scifi or World War games with a strong fokus on ranged combat.

so Darkfall is the first fantasy mmo which use this system.. ;)

@Ikonic

you loose endurance when you jump, and endurance you need to attack.. so bunny hopping is /death :P

So has the OP played DF or is he/she just extrapolating?  If this is just speculation, then I'll be moving on until someone with real DF play experience is able to share.

Originally posted by Ikonic

How will they prevent people from using Macros to lvl up skills?

Is there some kind of "endurance or energy" system to lose it while jumping or will the game be all about "bunny hopping"  while swinging that spiked spatula looking weapon that everyone is using in the video.

I was wondering this same thing, I know in oblivion I use to jump around just to level up my jump skill or whateva. Maybe they will have some kind of cap has to how much you can approve in a certain amount of time.

Originally posted by Bulveigh

all games with FTP combat before Darkfall where Scifi or World War games with a strong fokus on ranged combat.

 

so Darkfall is the first fantasy mmo which use this system.. ;)

 

 

 

@Ikonic

 

you loose endurance when you jump, and endurance you need to attack.. so bunny hopping is /death :P

Thats just slapping a different skin on a game. Look at all the different Half Life 2 mods. Its like Hyaundai saying we didn't invent the first auto, but we are the first to have light aquamarine blue as a color.

Originally posted by Bulveigh

all games with FTP combat before Darkfall where Scifi or World War games with a strong fokus on ranged combat.

 

so Darkfall is the first fantasy mmo which use this system.. ;)

 

 

 

@Ikonic

 

you loose endurance when you jump, and endurance you need to attack.. so bunny hopping is /death :P

Neocron 2 has a pretty solid melee combat. actually, people who went melee were pretty good, and it works exactly like DF; running around bashing the LMB. instead of endurance there is stamina, and you can even sprint (it uses stamina though).

FE also has a lot of melee weapons, and because they don't use ammo they are useful.

so again, DF isn't the first.

Cool and to think that I had never heard about necron.. huh! si-fi aswell.

Well, I just hope that DFO get the sanbox element toghether and working in a good way, then I'll be a happy camper..

Skill based system with looting and player controlled Dodging and melee is all things Asheron's Call did 8 years ago. It's the reason many PVP''s still play AC and rave about it.
 

Originally posted by dropp

Darkfall isn't the first to introduce a system like this.

Neocron, a game from 2003, is using such a system. it didn't have levels, just skill caps. it also had a system similar to Oblivion's, where you level up attributes by doing actions which are linked to it. the combat is in FPS/TPS (yeah you could change camera position, unlike DF). also, gear was not as important in this game, the main focus was PVPing. the game during beta test had partial PVP looting system; when a person died, one of his items was dropped to the ground (I got a really awesome weapon this way, it was cool). when it launched, the PVP loot system was dumbed down but was still present.

Fallen Earth, a game currently in Alpha state, uses such a system as well. real time FPS/TPS combat system, with no classes (does have levels though). also focuses on PVP, but has a lot of PVE elements and content.

 

so basically, DF brings nothing new unless it does it REALLY good, which is not easy.

 

 

No these really are NOT the same thing.  Its a stretch to say Fallen Earth will be based on PvP, in fact they have said there will be limited pvp. Not to mention Darkfall has been in develpment LONGER then Fallen Earth, so it could be said FallenEarth got there ideas from DF instead of saying it the other way around, like you did.  There is also NO mention anywhere of open loot.  I will say this again all I've read about Fallen Earth no where does it say the game will "Focus" on pvp.

Neocron? did you actually play this game?  I see few connections between it and Darkfall.  It's probably more like Darkfall then Fallen Earth, I'm surprised you would compare those game.  I think if you really wanted to compare a game to Darkfall it would be early SWG or Ultima Online back in the late 90's. Which had open PvP outside of cities, FULL loot, NO levels, you could mix skills however you want (eg: fisher, mage, miner if you wanted too)

I think darkfall is definitley trying to bring some new things to the table or at least GREATLY improve what is currently out there.

None of these games have brought anything new to the table UO had all this before any of them cept for the Friendly fire.

That game worked out to be a huge success and is still play to this day.

Did it have WoW kind of numbers NO because it was one of the 1st MMO's, it was a 2D game with a great community and if DF can land the kind of numbers UO has had over there years and have kind of community that UO did and still has then it will be a Great Day for MMO's, and I think you will see more and more games like it. But if it fails then you will see tons more cookie cutter WOW carebear games and I for one will be done with MMO's. I might try Mortal but if both of these fail thats it for me.

Originally posted by RDBeast

Yep, all of this makes for a more tactical, skillfull, fun and rewarding system in my opinion. It will be much fun actually having more control over your actions in comparison to the autoaim combat system.

You better have a great ping and be very skilled.

Originally posted by logicbomb82

Skill based system with looting and player controlled Dodging and melee is all things Asheron's Call did 8 years ago. It's the reason many PVP''s still play AC and rave about it.
 

asherons call dont have fps aim.. and noone says that darkfall is cool cause they "invented fps fight and full loot" ... It just rocks that they use it..

to AC:

Omg.. i hope Darkfall will not have gameplay like this game :P in every PvP video the winner is a guy, which is frequently casting a purple spell and sidestepping like a nervous chicken!!

Originally posted by crysent

Originally posted by dropp

Darkfall isn't the first to introduce a system like this.

Neocron, a game from 2003, is using such a system. it didn't have levels, just skill caps. it also had a system similar to Oblivion's, where you level up attributes by doing actions which are linked to it. the combat is in FPS/TPS (yeah you could change camera position, unlike DF). also, gear was not as important in this game, the main focus was PVPing. the game during beta test had partial PVP looting system; when a person died, one of his items was dropped to the ground (I got a really awesome weapon this way, it was cool). when it launched, the PVP loot system was dumbed down but was still present.

Fallen Earth, a game currently in Alpha state, uses such a system as well. real time FPS/TPS combat system, with no classes (does have levels though). also focuses on PVP, but has a lot of PVE elements and content.

 

so basically, DF brings nothing new unless it does it REALLY good, which is not easy.

 

 

 

No these really are NOT the same thing.  Its a stretch to say Fallen Earth will be based on PvP, in fact they have said there will be limited pvp. Not to mention Darkfall has been in develpment LONGER then Fallen Earth, so it could be said FallenEarth got there ideas from DF instead of saying it the other way around, like you did.  There is also NO mention anywhere of open loot.  I will say this again all I've read about Fallen Earth no where does it say the game will "Focus" on pvp.

 

Neocron? did you actually play this game?  I see few connections between it and Darkfall.  It's probably more like Darkfall then Fallen Earth, I'm surprised you would compare those game.  I think if you really wanted to compare a game to Darkfall it would be early SWG or Ultima Online back in the late 90's. Which had open PvP outside of cities, FULL loot, NO levels, you could mix skills however you want (eg: fisher, mage, miner if you wanted too)

 

I think darkfall is definitley trying to bring some new things to the table or at least GREATLY improve what is currently out there.

you're right, it is a stretch to say that about Fallen Earth. but the fact is, FE is heavily based upon factions, and in order to open up new content in PVE you have to figth and take over towns, etc. and I didn't say FE had PVP loot. also, I didn't say FE didn't copy stuff from Darkfall, but one can't assume it did. what I'm saying is that a lot of games offer classless skill system and real time combat, and I gave FE as a possible example. 

I did play Neocron, since beta and for a long time. there's a connection in the skill system, PVP system and overall feeling. both games have some sort of PVP looting, both games have no classes (Neocron has races instead, which do not count as classes but merely give different attribute caps). basically, in necron you could choose which ever skills you want and you're not limited in a pre-determined skill path.

sure, DF is further develpoing these aspects and does them different, but saying it's brining a change to the industry is a bold thing to say at the moment, especially when other games have tried similar things before.

 also, my first post is a reply to the OP, which looks at Darkfall as the game that introduces these things. I never played SWG and UO so I can't use them as examples, while I did play NC and FE so I can use them as I think they offer similar things (not identical ofcourse, every MMO is unqiue ofcourse).

all in all, DF will triumph if it does those things good, otherwise it will fail like all others who tried brining "something new".

Originally posted by logicbomb82

Skill based system with looting and player controlled Dodging and melee is all things Asheron's Call did 8 years ago. It's the reason many PVP''s still play AC and rave about it.
 

Not to start a quibble or anything but AC did this 10 years ago not 8.  Skill based system with looting, not full loot but looting.  Your right though on the dodging and melee though, in no game to date have I played where your shield makes a real differance and you can see it.  basicly which hand your shield is in that side of your body takes less damage the the part on the opposite side and you saw it when you had your back against a wall and 4 layers deep of Olthoi trying to pound on you.  You would see the one on your shield side swing and hit you would take 27piercing damage maybe even 0.  Then the one on the opposite side, that is not protected by your shield and, WHAM 107piercing damage and that is with out critting.  Or your forgot an armor spell, or you should really not be attacking them.

AOC had a defensive system in place but I thought it was crude and quite pathetic personally, not the only reason I didn't play out of beta but one of the bigger reasons.

As for Darkfall, it seems like if they pull off everything they are saying is in the game it will be the closest thing to an AC game, and to me that will be the best thing out there.

Originally posted by Bulveigh

all games with FPS combat before Darkfall where Scifi or World War games with a strong fokus on ranged combat.

 

so Darkfall is the first fantasy mmo which use this system.. ;)

 

 

 

@Ikonic

 

you loose endurance when you jump, and endurance you need to attack.. so bunny hopping is /death :P

I take it you haven't played DDO. It also has twitch combat and it's fantasy (obviously).

Originally posted by Samhael

So has the OP played DF or is he/she just extrapolating?  If this is just speculation, then I'll be moving on until someone with real DF play experience is able to share.

You can actual read about what the OP is talking about in the DF forums, and here beta.thenoobcomic.com/df_preview/intro.html an ongoing beta review..by a beta tester.

Originally posted by dropp

Darkfall isn't the first to introduce a system like this.

Neocron, a game from 2003, is using such a system. it didn't have levels, just skill caps. it also had a system similar to Oblivion's, where you level up attributes by doing actions which are linked to it. the combat is in FPS/TPS (yeah you could change camera position, unlike DF). also, gear was not as important in this game, the main focus was PVPing. the game during beta test had partial PVP looting system; when a person died, one of his items was dropped to the ground (I got a really awesome weapon this way, it was cool). when it launched, the PVP loot system was dumbed down but was still present.

Fallen Earth, a game currently in Alpha state, uses such a system as well. real time FPS/TPS combat system, with no classes (does have levels though). also focuses on PVP, but has a lot of PVE elements and content.

 

so basically, DF brings nothing new unless it does it REALLY good, which is not easy.

 

 

whoah I've never heard of neocron until now, but looking at the webpage it looks like a really cool game. Did you play it? was it good?