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Originally posted by eccoton
For a lot of people SOE has done a good many things to destroy/harm their enjoyment of the journey in their games. Some long before the NGE and some long after and unrelated. There has been far more than the NGE to be upset with SOE about and many tend to just sweep everything else under the rug, because of how overshadowing the NGE was in comparison to many of SOEs actions. People are passionate about their hobbies, much like you are passionate about the graphics in this game. While I respect your choice to play and somewhat understand your yiedling to not take a stand against things that don't directly affect you, that is part of what Sony is counting on. They need people to not care while they slowly introduce these sorts of things. Bruce Ferguson has already shown they have much bigger plans in place that could ruin your journey, but I'm not sure how that relates to you not caring about "ifs". Even still I think this isn't a case of IF, but more a case of WHEN as many have been saying for years. The problem has always been that when SOE does finally get around to screwing with someones gaming experience, the rest of the community tells them to shut up about it as if ignoring the problem will somehow make it go away. The whole submissive nature is really mind boggling to be honest.
Lastly, when you say SOE is just a business it really doesn't pay respect to just how differently they opperate in comparison to just about every other MMO company on the market right now. SOE really does not behave like any other business.
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Originally posted by miagisan
You still didn't tell me what you have against F2P cash shops... ^_^ I'm thinking you don't have an argument. Yes that other game charged 15$ for a makeover, per month, how long do you think something similar comes to EQ2? Oh wait we are already there. Barber shops ARE fluff and useless and yet you don't like the idea. Is it so far fetched to understand why we don't like the idea of the current SOE fluff shop? This is my bet, by next holiday event you'll see cool and cute holiday items only available in the cash shop, and it's probably going to be the better quality ones. But who cares it's just fluff.. Still people are going to buy them even those who say now they won't go near it, they will eventually and SOE will have won in charging extra for stuff they should already have in game. (it's only a matter of time before the fluff isn't so fluffy) Heh, anyway have fun in your money grab scheming games, I'm over and out.
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1st off, yes Barbershop is in games, but you do not have to spend real money in LOTRO, EQ2, SWG, etc to get a make over, you use in game credits for this service.
And maybe you havent played many F2P games, but most have useful items like health potions, weapons, armor, etc which are used as a necessity most times because of a) better than normal loot or b) cannot be looted or crafted or are so rare its near imposible to get |
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Originally posted by eccoton
Let's just say that even if someone is suspicious of someone, there is no point in making names since he will never be able to prove it. |
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Players like this one are the reason SoE can screw over their player base:
http://www.mmorpg.com/discussion2.cfm/post/2514277/thread/214953#2514277 "I browsed a couple threads that are ranting over this, but would someone please explain why this is such a evil thing that has caused the lynch mob to form?" "I really really really HATED those rich spoiled newbs who would rather purchase $1000 + high level accounts as opposed to working their way up from scratch like everyone else. There was nothing worse than to see a levle 60 Warrior who literally had no idea how to tank and play his character, or a levle 60 cleric that thought he was a dpser instead of a healer.. OMG, those ebayers were the worst! But hey, I did love it when they would overpay for accounts I sold, lol.. Having a manastone and powerleveling myself with my druid to level 50 in under a week made me some nice rl cash, so I guess it evened out in the end, lol. :P"
In the real world, people like these would be shunned. But with the anonimity of the internet, they feel no shame in ripping other players off and destroying an MMO in the process if they can make some money on the side. SoE can only abuse their players because many let them. It's not just SoE, although I feel they are fully accountable for this, it's players + SoE. |
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Originally posted by ste2000 In their defense, I must say that I have never gotten the impression that either ecco or Moirae are SOE shills/plants/employees. Ecco has always struck me as honest about his opinions on game matters. Moirae cannot be a SOE employee simply due to the fact that the insults she hurls here against those who disagree with her do EQ2 much more harm than good. As for the RMTs, I still think the real issue boils down to trust. SOE has demonstrated clearly in the past (with SWG and most recently by not announcing the rollout of RMT) that they will do and say things that are untrue (and not do and say things that are) in order to help quell disquiet among their customers. If that fails (see: SWG and the EQ2 Dev caught giving raid strategies to his own guild so that they could be first to conquer some raid content) they then are adept at obfuscation. In the end, all that is left to them is denial. Which starts the whole process over again (see: Smed's assurance that no RMT will ever be active in EQ2 outside of the exchange servers). I absolutely adore EQ2. I hold most of the devs and the people who have to work day in and day out making the game better, in high esteem. I might not always agree with their decisions, but for the most part I can see both sides. This issue, obviously, it is about revenue. I have no problem with SOE charging people real money for things that in no manner affect game play. New pets, new clothing, housing accessories, fireworks, etc. The problem is that they introduced, right from the start, items that DO affect game play. Some will scoff that the affect that +exp potions will have is minimal, and perhaps it is. But it demonstrates clearly that SOE has in effect no self-restrictions on placing game-affecting items on sale for real money. The comment quoted above, from Mr. Ferguson, should concern a good portion of the player base. Not everyone views the game the same way. For example, I use the game as a hobby; I solo a lot, explore, converse and laugh with people in the game. That is how I get my enjoyment from EQ2. Others, however, get their enjoyment by viewing the game as a challenge, and viewing other players as competitors. SOE encourages that mind-set with their "first" lists. The players rightfully note that the introduction of any game-affecting items sold for real money is a violation of the basic sense of fairness and the idea of honest reward for tenacity and determination in the game (and no, the game is not fair in and of itself, however being able to afford more station cash than another player should not be an avenue to rise to the end levels/better loot quicker) To me, frankly, I don't care. Not getting to the raid content with my characters does not bother me, because I am having too much fun with my friends at mid-level. However, it is counter-productive (and a bit myopic) to deny that the people who view EQ2 as a competiton have no issue. They do. And it is a big one. And, they are correct. Just because it does not affect me, does not mean I cannot see their side of the issue. There is a simple way for SOE to defuse the issue. Simply remove the +exp potions from the game and never again introduce anything that affects game play into the process. People will not miss the potions as the competitive faction sees them as a cheat and the non-competitive faction claims that they have little effect on game-play anyway. Then, those who want to buy pets, carpets and clothing can do so to their hearts content. I do not hold much hope for this obvious and simple solution to come about, however, as SOE and Mr. Smedley have long demonstrated an unwillingness and a stubborness to admit that they have implemented anything but bright and brilliant solutions to problems that oftentimes no one but they even knew existed. Best to all. |
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I play eq2. I've also played many F2P games. Unfortunatly Cash malls are the thing of the future and many new games comming out are "talking" about the possibility of this buisness model. A few years ago no one even really knew what this was and now the words are popping up around all big MMO's WoW, Guild wars (skills and item packs), and now EQ's. It blows, and they did it in the worste possible way. But honestly, as a player it hasn't effected me in any way. I can see why people would want to buy these items... but I won't. I can also see from the PoV of people that say "Well what if you NEED to buy certain items in the future?" I can see this too... and if it happens maybe THEN i'll be angry but right now I see exp pots and fluff that I could care less wether they gave me for free or not. I don't even claim 50% of my vet rewards from initial release anyway. I also see the PoV that normally free fluff such as holiday stuff might go there and as annoying as it may be it's not going to make me stop playing a game over it. In my oppinion I don't care. It is what it IS and thats fluff. If they start adding items that are better than ANYTHING obtainable currently in game at the moment then i'll be angry but untill then I don't see a reason to quit a game i enjoy playing. Isn't that what it's all about anyway? Enjoying the game? I could care less how a company spends there money or if they don't tell me something. I'm having fun playing the game and currently no other game is giving my that fun. I pay my monthly fee for patches and bug fixes and the occasional content update or fix; and i buy expansions for the added content they hold. I bought the new one and I thought although the contents' not for everyone I thought it was worth the money I payed for it (and i'm not even doing the content yet). I look at it like this if mcdonalds put a coin machine on the toilet so you had to pay to pee would I stop eating there? No I wouldn't it doesn't affect me i'd just pay for the food i'm enjoying, pee elsewhere and move on with life. If and when the games MOST powerfull items exist solely on the item mall then I will welcome the outroar that some people are making. But my server doesn't seem like it lost anyone everyone in my guild could care less and my game seems exactly the same. People are going to find powerleveling services and gold buying sights anyway. They were jerks about the implimentation but my game is still more enjoyable than anything else out there. TO ME. If you don't like it fine but telling people to boycott something or teling them it's a scam is purely a Point of View sort of thing. If you don't like it fine but don't tell people they're wrong or stupid for not agreeing. |
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Originally posted by eccoton Wow. Thats so well said. I so totally agree with you. Frankly I've said it again and again, I hate WoW but I don't go there just to bash it like the haters do to EQ2. I talk about EQ2 because I like it, if I didn't, I'd just ignore the game. Its about maturity. We agree Moirae, because like others have said here, we both work for SOE. I have read that said about you and it has been said about me numerous times. It has also been said that I am a viral marketer for SOE. Got news for those who have claimed that about me, I am a college art professor. lol. Now thats incredibly funny. Maybe someone should tell SOE they owe me a paycheck. Then I won't have to work as a reservations agent for a small group of hotels making $8.75 an hour anymore. |
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Originally posted by Bloodnok
OK 'kid', so that may be overstating it. However, it still boils down to people (roleplayers, fluff-lovers, call them what you will) only being able to obtain the kind of items that would have been previously included as part of their subscription cost at an extra price. One would have to be naive to think that future items of this sort will not be held back from the game to be sold at a profit. If they want to fully implement this system, the game needs to be free to play, but having both a subscription cost and a marketplace for these items stinks of greed, and does nothing but harm for SOE's already poor reputation. *sighs* No, it boils down to haters just doing more whining. |
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Originally posted by Guillermo197
I fully agree. I left SWG some a few months after NGE, I shall never ever give any $$$ to SOE nor buy any Sony products again. |
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Originally posted by Moirae
OK 'kid', so that may be overstating it. However, it still boils down to people (roleplayers, fluff-lovers, call them what you will) only being able to obtain the kind of items that would have been previously included as part of their subscription cost at an extra price. One would have to be naive to think that future items of this sort will not be held back from the game to be sold at a profit. If they want to fully implement this system, the game needs to be free to play, but having both a subscription cost and a marketplace for these items stinks of greed, and does nothing but harm for SOE's already poor reputation. *sighs* No, it boils down to haters just doing more whining. The difference is that what you call a hater is what Sony calls a former subscriber. These haters were created by SOE doing things of this nature which you so casually choose to ignore. Blodnok has a firm grasp on the situation and sadly is correct in his assessment.
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Originally posted by Deewe
I fully agree. I left SWG some a few months after NGE, I shall never ever give any $$$ to SOE nor buy any Sony products again.
Oh for gods sakes...
THEN WHY ARE YOU HERE OTHER THAN TO CAUSE TROUBLE?
Do the mature thing and MOVE ON, like a grown up, instead of sitting on here just bashing the game and trying to cause trouble. You obviously don't like the game at all and do everything you can to bash it over and over and over again so Go Away. Go play your own game. Leave us to ours.
And don't say that you're not here just to cause trouble because obviously you ARE. YOU DON'T EVEN PLAY THE GAME IN THE FIRST PLACE. |
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Originally posted by Moirae
Moirae how have ya been, its been awhile hasn't it. Is your most favorite thing about eq still its art? I'm assuming so since your still pushing for SOE no matter what they do, always knew you were an ingame item buyer. Any way i am personally glad SOE screwed up this bad this time. I cant wait till these idiots that actually buy this station cash stuff find out its going to be lonely at the top when so many quit. But i say congrats to all you faitful players, you have all been promoted to station exchange servers =) |
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illin, I don't buy items in game. I find it cheating but thats a personal thing. I just don't give a flying crap if other people do so long as the other items arent game changing items. Which these aren't and you bloody people need to KNOCK IT OFF. |
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Originally posted by Moirae
Remember that the other party involved in what you consider cheating is SOE. They are the ones ultimately responsible for allowing people to do this. We all know this is only the beginning of this type of thing and the items will get worse.
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Originally posted by Everith All that talk about future is just rhetorical trickery. In fact, nobody knows. |
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I agree that we dont' know that for sure. But neither do we know that this station cash has ruined the game... it hasn't for me. I don't see it as a reason to leave the game when by all in game apearences nothings changed. |
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Originally posted by Moirae
Oh for gods sakes... THEN WHY ARE YOU HERE OTHER THAN TO CAUSE TROUBLE? Do the mature thing and MOVE ON, like a grown up, instead of sitting on here just bashing the game and trying to cause trouble. You obviously don't like the game at all and do everything you can to bash it over and over and over again so Go Away. Go play your own game. Leave us to ours. And don't say that you're not here just to cause trouble because obviously you ARE. YOU DON'T EVEN PLAY THE GAME IN THE FIRST PLACE.
Ahem... I don't see where I bashed the game. In fact I didn't. I only made a comment on SOE ways. About trouble: I think it's time people start acting against bad behaviors from editors. I do hope people will boycott SOE products more and more until they come back with better ways. Then I would be the first to buy their products. I'm not even asking for apologies nor Mr Smedley head on a pike. I really don't care about that. I have the uttermost respect for Sony developers and game designers and the opposite for their marketing/managing staff. It is time for SOE to evolve, otherwise sand dusts like me will gather more and more and there will be some consequences. The sad thing is with SOE ways they don't sell as much as they want to. In the end they fire the people who don't deserve it.
As a note an interesting quote: "Unlike Sony, Microsoft Not Planning To Profit On Avatar Clothing Sales" |
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Originally posted by Deewe
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Even though i quit playing Everquest series, I still recommend them to my friends if they are looking for a new MMO. I've been playing the series for years and only recently quit, right after Rise of Kunark expension. I was quite shocked to see this. This was the last drop from SOE. I will NEVER, EVER play a SOE game again. It is a matter of principles for me, no matter how "fluf" it is, this is simply unacceptable. I'm glad I didn't renewed my accouts for the new expensions. ---------------------------- Retired: UO, EQ, SWG, EQ2, GW, CoX, AoC, WAR. |
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UNATCOII
Advanced Member
Joined: 3/10/08
MMO doesn''t mean only Groups/Guilds/PvP gaming. |
Much like why they banned me from the official forums with stating the truth: to warn potential customers of what they may encounter, and to prevent them grief (as it hurts the MMO genre whenever a player is burned by mismanagement, and game publishers who think players are nothing but money bags to exploit). That's not causing "trouble" that's PREVENTING MORE! Â |
Originally posted by Daffid011
For a lot of people SOE has done a good many things to destroy/harm their enjoyment of the journey in their games. Some long before the NGE and some long after and unrelated. There has been far more than the NGE to be upset with SOE about and many tend to just sweep everything else under the rug, because of how overshadowing the NGE was in comparison to many of SOEs actions. People are passionate about their hobbies, much like you are passionate about the graphics in this game. While I respect your choice to play and somewhat understand your yiedling to not take a stand against things that don't directly affect you, that is part of what Sony is counting on. They need people to not care while they slowly introduce these sorts of things. Bruce Ferguson has already shown they have much bigger plans in place that could ruin your journey, but I'm not sure how that relates to you not caring about "ifs". Even still I think this isn't a case of IF, but more a case of WHEN as many have been saying for years. The problem has always been that when SOE does finally get around to screwing with someones gaming experience, the rest of the community tells them to shut up about it as if ignoring the problem will somehow make it go away. The whole submissive nature is really mind boggling to be honest.
Lastly, when you say SOE is just a business it really doesn't pay respect to just how differently they opperate in comparison to just about every other MMO company on the market right now. SOE really does not behave like any other business.
I never said SOE did not make some bad decisions, they have. Also I am not yielding against things that don't effect me. You have suggested that more then once. Again I like the idea. SOE is not counting on my yielding, they have my interest in this idea. I never yield both in my virtual world or my real world. Until you accept this, your comments are not really about me or my view on this subject. I am also so far past the NGE disaster it is not relevent to me anymore in how I deal with SOE. SOE is not or will not be ruining my journey because my dealings with them are more then EQ2. SOE has not screw- up my game experience, except with one game SWG, which I did have a great time for over 2 years, which SOE was responsible for. They changed the game I left, that does not take away the great virtual experience I had. I now play EQ2 love it, play Vanguard on and off like it but it needs work, Played Matrix Online for over a year liked it a lot. I am also a ps3 user, this is where I different and find it interesting. You have to put the ps3 into the mix to understand what SOE/Sony is doing. This is where I think many here do not understand what SOE/Sony is exploring. They are not trying to screw-up EQ/EQ2 with the item mall they are exploring a new idea and testing it with an established player base. It is not about greed. I believe, until you stop looking at it like this, you are not understanding the reality of what they are doing. You need to connect this idea with Home on the ps3, which I am currently in the open beta and think it is a fascinating idea. I think SOE/Sony is exploring the future of mmos and online gaming and are setting up to again be one of the leaders in this area. Not with one game but with a interconnecting network of games and virtual experiences. That is what they are doing not trying to suck you dry and kill EQ2. Last night in Home I decided to explore the mall and found a few stores. I looked around and saw a few items I wanted for my home and some cloths. These items cost real money. Yes real cash. So like I did with the item mall in EQ2 I deposited 10 dollar just to test it out. Indeed I had to spend my own real money. Items cost between .49 and .99 cents. I then spent 4.99 for a new apartment. If you pay .49 cents for a lamp it goes into your inventory and you can place as many as you want not just one. Anyway, so I had some fun. Spent time decorating my new pad. Just like I love to decorate in EQ2. Then I put on my cowboy hat, that cost .49 cents, and headed to the central plaza. There people loved my hat and did not say things like "You are foolish to spend .49 cent for a virtual hat" they simply said it was cool. This morning I got an e-mail receipts for all my purchases. They have my pc accounts linked to my ps3 account so everything is connected and smooth. I was impressed. You see there are 1000s of people who do not find this idea as a bad thing. It is a new thing and SOE thinks it is the future. Yes they are just a business. SOE exploration into this area, and even banking on consoles as the future of mmo type games, I think is a smart one. They are trying to place themselves as leaders in this area. All mmos have the lights turned out on them for many reasons. SOE may indeed close eq/eq2 in favor of The Agency, DC Universe, and Home. They may pursue more ideas like item malls in existing games. Regardless EQ2 will shut down someday. I will leave, it might be because of something stupid SOE does or it maybe just time to go. Everything ends including beloved mmos. That ending does not take away from the hours of enjoyment we had from them regardless of how they end. SOE has offered products that did this for many, including you, but products changed and people hated them for that. Like I said I do not invest that much emotions into entertainment. I am very interested in what SOE is doing I think they might be on the right direction as a business leader in this area. Smed is not evil SOE does not want to suck you dry with greed. They want to get your business. NGE is a dead issue and most people here are really mad over NGE and item malls SOE is much more then that. You can point out all the mistakes or "lies" SOE has presented, I am sure some will again, But until you see the big picture you do not get it. I say that since more then one here has said I do not get it. However indeed I do. My mmo and virtual experiences are much bigger then a game change that pissed me off. SOE in the big picture has had more success then failures and has giving you a chance to purches some great time spent in their games. They should be applauded for that. They should also be told when we are unhappy. I am still their supporter and customer because my good experiences with them as a company far outweigh the bad (NGE). I am waiting for someone to tell me how I am deluded so fire away.
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eccoton, you aren't deluded, some haters are just determined to feel screwed over by anything sony does so they take everything sony does as a personal slam when it isn't.
Well said btw. The only thing you said that I didn't agree with was that it isn't about money. Everything is about money when it comes to a business. Without money, your business doesn't stay afloat. |
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Originally posted by UNATCOII How were you burned exactly? You pay a monthly fee for a game that is for the time spent in a game and the box price. The box clearly explains the game can change. If you buy mmos you know this. So you pay your monthly fee and know a game can change but you are having fun. Opps the game changes, you can leave or stay your choice. They delivered on what they said they would. You signed a virtual aggreement you understood the game can change and it did. This is where you choice as a customer comes in you can stay or leave. No one is stopping you. If you paid for multiple months or a life time type deal that was your choice. Remember you signed an agreement saying you understand a game can change. Is this not accurate? So again how were you burned exactly? Thanks for your concern for my well being. "Thanks. but I can tell the wrong sort for myself" Are you part of the mmo police? Moirae is right by the way.. |
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