I solo only because I cannot find a group. That is all I need to say.

I love to solo when possible, it gives more a sense of freedom and adventure, not to mention it's more challenging. Yes, I could group and kill mobs faster, but where's the fun in that? I like challenging myself, so I solo unless needed. I'll grab a group for killing harder mobs and have a good time because that is then challenging.

On top of this, I love pvp, but hate just zerging people. If I see an enemy player around or above my strength, I want to fight them, but I do NOT want to do it to where I have four other people backing me up, it's annoying and cowardly. Since most of my pvp is simple random encounters, I often find them while questing, which is where I would otherwise group.

Basically, the group can interfere with the challenge of the game, except in certain cases where a group is necessary, in which case I'm more than happy to group up.

Originally posted by Somniferous

Originally posted by Unlight

Originally posted by Somniferous

Originally posted by Rhoklaw

 However, I don't understand why gaming companies feel the need to create forced grouping in any MMO. Seriously, if people want to group, THEY CAN and in the process achieve things solo players couldn't, like doing dungeons or killing mobs they couldn't solo. Why is this so hard to comprehend in the MMO industry? People don't like forced grouping, they don't like monsters their level with 1000x more health and mana that do 1000x more damage. Come on game designers, be creative, not lazy and make a MMO that's a living breathing and for the love of entertainment, FUN!!

Guess what, take a single player game like Elder Scrolls: Oblivion, with perhaps less graphic intensive world and make it an MMO. Don't change anything, but allow thousands of people to inhabit the same world and I think for once, you might have a game that closely resembles old school EverQuest.

 

I only like games with forced grouping. If you can do everything solo, then it would be retarded to spend quadruple the time to do everything in a group.

What if I gave you a maxed out character, max level or max skills, and all the best gear in the game, and then told you that you COULD go fight all the newbie level stuff if you want to, there's nothing stopping you. Would that be fun?

Or would it ruin the game for you? Solo play ruins the game for me. It's to easy, so it's not fun. If you make it hard enough for me, then you will whine that you can't access all the content.

Oblivion multiplayer? EQ was all about forced grouping.

 

I can't understand why anyone would like to be forced into any type of play style.  It's your dime, you're paying the monthly fee, why not play how you want?  If you want to group, do it.  If you want to be a loner, go for it.  Yes, it should be more difficult for soloists to take the same content as it would for a group at a similar level, but that should still be a choice.  I don't care if it takes me twice as long, four times as long, or ten times as long.  I'm not in a race with anyone since I'm *on my own*.  So as long as I enjoy it, why would anyone else give a hoot?

I don't disagree that raid level dungeons should exist and be tailored for group play, as long as solo-able content isn't diminished at it's expense.   And with instanced dungeons, difficulty scaling is simple to do, so there's really no reason that soloists and groupies can't run the same content as long as the rewards scale with the difficulty.  That was one of my favorite things about CoX.

I wouldn't put up with being forced to group in RL for say, going to a flick or a trip to the grocery store.  I sure as heck wouldn't pay someone a monthly fee to impose that restriction on my online leisure time.

 

Well that's the problem. A game taht requires you to group is for me, NOT forced grouping, because that's how I like to play MMORPGs.

You cannot force teh willing. It's impossible ot FORCE me to group in an MMORPG, because that is the only thing I want to do in an MMORPG.

The person that calls it forced grouping, is the person trying to play my game solo.My Group game has very challenging Mobs which require more than one person to defeat, and they will aggro you and kill you if you are solo. Also, there are dungeons where you won't get past the front door solo, and the mobs will drop great loot for your level, if you can handle it but it requires team work.

It will suck severly if you play my group game solo, because you won't get more than 1/2 the xp  you'd get in a good group, and you won't get most of the good gear. But I could care less, because I don't intend to play solo.

I certainly don't mind if you want to play my group game, and get 1/2 the xp and not much good loot. Go right ahead, taht's fine by me. But please, dont' ruin my group game by making it to easy so that I don't need to group any more.

If you do that, there's no game left for me to play. I don't solo in MMORPGs, and I don't want to get in a group to do solo content.

Well, you do make one valid point.  I wouldn't enjoy *your* game, whatever it may be, and if I made a mistake and purchased it, not understanding the mechanics, that's my error.  An error which will be quickly corrected come the first renewal period, without bitching, moaning or whinging about a core mechanic that I should have made myself aware of before buying it.   You folks can party up to your hearts' content and I'll simply invest in a game that caters to my own tastes ... which on occasion will involve some kind of team play.  I'm not against groups, just the concept that you must conform to that play style to get anything out of the game. 

To me, when all of a game's content absolutely requires players to group in order to see it, it's just a very draconian form of user manipulation, most often as a result of weak design.  Not to poo poo what spins your wheels, but the less freedom a world offers it's players, the less compelling it is to me.  Solo vs group based content, and how that is presented, are just elements of the game mechanics.  A good design could incorporate both seamlessly and make it viable for either of the schools of thought.  That would be the one I would gravitate to ... not the one that caters almost exclusively to solo play.  It would be a little too much like a single player game for me.

I am a solo gamer. I have been since pre-UO (MUDs). Why? I'll tell you;

1. I'm selective about who I call "friend".

2. I enjoy the challenge of doing something alone that I see some groups struggle with. It can be done, although often extremely challenging.

3. I like to move at my own pace. I don't like to rush. Explore, craft, adventure on my schedule.

4. Most of my favorite heroes from literature were "loners" with temporary alliances.

5. I am not "beholden" to anyone and not bound by another's desire to "Let's go to location X instead, better xp and loots".  I'm free to explore at leisure.

Not saying these are "good" reasons, just MY reasons.

With MMO's being relatively easy compared to single player games, I sometimes group for the challenge. I always seem to meet someone in a PUG who can make even the easiest encounter turn into a disaster

But seriously, as crafter Im mainly a soloplayer. As adventurer I usually start out as soloplayer to get to know the game and gradually start grouping more. Depends also on the MMO.Basically, if there is too much idle time involved trying to find a team, I stick to solo playing.

Originally posted by Grym

I am a solo gamer. I have been since pre-UO (MUDs). Why? I'll tell you;

1. I'm selective about who I call "friend".

2. I enjoy the challenge of doing something alone that I see some groups struggle with. It can be done, although often extremely challenging.

3. I like to move at my own pace. I don't like to rush. Explore, craft, adventure on my schedule.

4. Most of my favorite heroes from literature were "loners" with temporary alliances.

5. I am not "beholden" to anyone and not bound by another's desire to "Let's go to location X instead, better xp and loots".  I'm free to explore at leisure.

Not saying these are "good" reasons, just MY reasons.

Most of these reasons are spot on.

I tend to play online with real life friends when I group, if I'm playing on my own, often I just can't be bothered to make conversation with strangers.

Originally posted by joereed1 

Most of these reasons are spot on.

I tend to play online with real life friends when I group, if I'm playing on my own, often I just can't be bothered to make conversation with strangers.

 

Pretty common.

What changed over the years was that in the beginning the MMOs were filled with enthusiasts, so most people were not playing with their real life friends, but with other MMO enthusiasts.  And as a result of that (and due to mechanics that greatly encouraged grouping), the games were more social. 

When WoW threw open the market, every asshat under the sun came pouring in, as well as many people who would never in a million years have played an MMO.  So people started being more selective, and only playing the games with their friends.  It's kind of a natural development in the genre, but it really deflates the massively multiplayer elements of these games, and makes them into online versions of multiplayer modes of SP games, in many ways.

Originally posted by Dreamagram

Originally posted by Majestico

Now, please do not answer with posts such as: 'well sometimes I like exploring and doing things on my own' that is very well, and I do it myself, or posts like 'well sometimes I only have an hour to play,'.  Or the classic; 'I like to play in a MMO by myself, and like the idea that the other people are real!' - shy people in an environment that is geared towards you throwing off any social inhibidtions and allowing you to be anyone you want!

So. strictly for those who I initially mentioned.  The ones always solo, unless they absoloute;y have to group.  Why?  Is it some competitive thing?  'Look I can get to max just by solo'.  What reason can there by that makes sense?

You ask a question, and then tell people the good answers are not allowed? :-) Or are you only looking for those who never ever interact with anybody else in the game world in any way? I honestly doubt you'll find a single one of them on a forum, and I'm not sure they exist at all.

I normally solo myself, mainly due to very difficult game time. I don't play little overall, I just can't play in a very structured way. I might have to leave the game on a minute's notice, and I hate to leave a group because of that. At the same time I don't want to depend on random people to advance and get stuff done, just in case those people are slow and can't get their act together. And sometimes I simply don't have time to play at all for a month or two, without knowing so beforehand, which can make me feel bad about being in a guild.

However, I love chatting with people, trading, comparing gear, crafting for people (e.g. enchanting in WoW), using auction houses or similar, playing scenarios or battlegrounds, competing or collaborating for spawns, etc. I don't get that in a single-player game. Even if I didn't ever group (and I do, those rare times where I know I'll have more than an hour to spare) at all I'd still want those elements. I imagine the pure soloers also look for those things, even if they never cooperate with people on the killing and questing.

GREAT answer, and probably 90 percent of it directly applies to myself as well.  Thanks for typing all of that so I didn't have to. ;)

Games are played in as wide of a variety of playstyles as there are PEOPLE.  No two people are exactly alike.  No two people PLAY exactly alike.  That's pretty simple, really.

Why MMOs?  I think that's been repeatedly answered now, in different ways, by different people....all "reasons" are valid.

Originally posted by Somniferous

Originally posted by Sovrath

Originally posted by Splixx

Well you asked and your question related to me so here's my answer.

I solo because I just want to play the game and play it how I want. I am one of those that if a quest requires a group I will group up, however overall I prefer just to run around by myself. I thought about why I do that and the only answer I could come up with is that solo I am free to do what I want when I want, however in a group I am at the mercy of what the group wants to do. Solo I can stop and grind a mob for an hour if I choose or just sit in town and craft or do any number of things. In a group you might have someone that needs X quest done, or wants to check out Y zone or who knows what else. The only time I group up is when I am playing with my brother's or RL friends or members of our online gaming group. Although I sort of consider that solo grouping(retarded concept I know) because we all are out to do the exact same thing.

To me it just boils down that I don't wanna get caught up in what someone else wants to do, I am not anti-social or anything. If someone needs help I will help out and then bounce right out, I don't feel any obligation to stay in a group with someone.

 

And that's the thing, it's sort of like life.

If I want to go to a movie and no one wants to join me do I just "not go"? No, I go and enjoy myself. If I need to go shopping I don't need to get a group of people to do that.

And you hit it on the head when you said that people scream for open worlds and sandbox but all of a sudden everyone has to be in a group.

Where is the choice in that? I like a living breathing world. But that doesn't mean that I have to bend to the will of others in that world.

I can actually enjoy being in a city and enjoy the hustle and bustle of the city life without always being with people.

I also think I can do the same in a game. And, I am more than happy to pay for the right to do so.

 

 

So of you want to play frisbee and no one will play with you, you just toss the frisbee in the air and catch it?

 

Boomerang

Not a big fan of solo because tbh it is OCD mind-numbing play but when I have soloed it is because sometimes you want to explore the world on your own, do your own thing, grouping can be too long(esp. in WoW when you had 3 hour instances), and that strong possibility of encountering asshats in groups-esp. in WoW where the majority of the group won't bother to run and just wait for one gullible person to do that.(well two)

Actually, I think the ideal is where people are able to get into smaller groups and do stuff. In WoW it's like be a 5-man group or forget it. I mean I tried duo/trio in that and everyone just had different quests and running around doing them. I made a suggestion on their forums that those who helped other people do quests might get for instance a possibility of say a gem which they could trade in for xp. But that isn't just one answer, the whole questing everywhere and everything doesn't really allow someone to settle down and enjoy an area. It would be good if for instance quests where you're defending outposts was a much more prominent part of the game being a compelling activity for duo's or trios.

I group when I must.. But - Generally I solo.

The reason?!

Most Pug's I have been in.. The right hand doesn't know what the left hand is doing! Everyone knows everything.. Yea right! Which tends to lead to alot of deaths in your group!

**WOW.. I have taken time off from all online games. Thus I am back at 1STAR again.. YIKES!

Originally posted by TiiKii

I group when I must.. But - Generally I solo.

The reason?!

Most Pug's I have been in.. The right hand doesn't know what the left hand is doing! Everyone knows everything.. Yea right! Which tends to lead to alot of deaths in your group!

**WOW.. I have taken time off from all online games. Thus I am back at 1STAR again.. YIKES!

 

For me that is hte fun part. I don't see the fun in making "progress" in an MMORPG. The fun is in the game play, at least for me.

I don't care if I make zero progress. I'm not there for "progress" I'm there for fun.

Reading NPC dialog for a static quest that doesn't change the game world? No fun.

Grinding on stupid mobs over and over for xp by yourself? No fun.

Getting in a pug that argues and gets the entire party wiped, causing a big argument. Now that's entertainment.

Leroy Jenkins FTW! 

Well I guess it was time for this topic to re-appear, happens every couple of months or so. In EQ2 I group whenever there is a group available, otherwise I complete the solo quests. In WoW I pretty much just solo, because most of my grouping experiences have been complete disasters. I'm not talking about wipes either, that I can handle to a point. I have met far too many immature, annoying, whiny people in WoW. I would love to find an active guild that grouped and did instances in WoW, but so far no luck.

I prefer grouping, but soloing in EQ2 isn't bad because I'm in a decent guild and there's always chat going on. I'll soon have a character at the max level and will be able to do all the new instances and some raiding with them which I'm really looking forward to. Soloing in WoW, while easy, is a pretty souless experience and it's hard to find a stable guild in that game.

The general problems I find with grouping is that people are people. Things don't go well and the tank/healer bails, and the group disbands. People have lives outside of the game, and real life takes precedent and disrupts the groups.

I still take the view that forced grouping is not the way to go and dooms a game to a limited population.

The correct answer, is people solo just so they can ruin my MMORPGs and turn them from fun grouping games into mindless solo quest grinds.

Originally posted by Somniferous

Originally posted by TiiKii

I group when I must.. But - Generally I solo.

The reason?!

Most Pug's I have been in.. The right hand doesn't know what the left hand is doing! Everyone knows everything.. Yea right! Which tends to lead to alot of deaths in your group!

**WOW.. I have taken time off from all online games. Thus I am back at 1STAR again.. YIKES!

 

 

For me that is hte fun part. I don't see the fun in making "progress" in an MMORPG. The fun is in the game play, at least for me.

I don't care if I make zero progress. I'm not there for "progress" I'm there for fun.

Reading NPC dialog for a static quest that doesn't change the game world? No fun.

Grinding on stupid mobs over and over for xp by yourself? No fun.

Getting in a pug that argues and gets the entire party wiped, causing a big argument. Now that's entertainment.

Leroy Jenkins FTW! 

Well, that is you, and not all of the MMO playing population.

Originally posted by Somniferous

The correct answer, is people solo just so they can ruin my MMORPGs and turn them from fun grouping games into mindless solo quest grinds.

You are so bitter. You may as well quit MMOs. Being more solo-friendly is obviously the trend and if academics have found reasons why people like it (reading in a cafe analogy), there is really NOTHING you can do about it.

I tend to solo MMO's, because I don't want to have to rely on others or feel pressured to have to play when they want to, plus it's hard finding people that I like. I sometimes group with some random dudes for a difficult task or join a guild, but even when being a part of the guild I tend to play alone most of the time except for when playing alone becomes too hard.

I understand why people find it strange to play an MMO alone, after all isn't the purpose of it being an online game to play with others? Maybe if I could find some people that were very friendly, where I never felt pressured and such I would group more, but I'm just a lone wolf I suppose...

I play a lot with a friend I know IRL, but since I don't have many friends and none others that play games I can't really call that a group, and since he always play a lot more than I he levels faster and there isn't much point in grouping when he is 20 levels higher and have already done the quests I'm doing. I'm just not willing to spend as much time playing as he is.

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Originally posted by Majestico
But when I play so  many great single player games, I have to wonder the incentive for the solo gamer.

---

Huh?

If you play "so many great single player games" and don't know why, why ask others for a reason to explain it???

I play solo for no commitments; can harvest to abandon; can craft to abandon; and simply not have to deal with the 10000001 soap operas MMOs bring with it (enough of it in RL as it is). Basically, the only BS I want is from that beastie that looks tempting to get his hide to craft out of.

Not everyone is interested in killing everything for "lewtz" (frankly, that's getting quite o-l-d to me, as if I needed to kill so much and in a group/raid, I would be playing a FPS game).
 

Advantages of solo play include:

• you can explore content at your own pace
• you can take a break without inconveniencing other players
• its fun doing challenging solo quests which are trivial in a team
• it is often hard to find a group of people of similar level who are doing the same quests

In an open world, the content is geared towards the lowest common denominator, which is the solo player.

Games like City of Heroes, for a particular mission, will tailor the content to match the level, class and number of players in the team.  This is usually done in instances and would be extremely difficult to do in an open world.  Just imagine the chaos in an open world if a bunch of high level players ran past a low level toon and spawned a heap of matching high level mobs.

I do like both group and solo play.

 because they play a shitty game that promotes soloing

Originally posted by spdkilla

I solo often at least in WoW (i mostly group up in CoX) for many of the reasons already listed but the whole group rush to finish quickly is what i dislike the most. I like to have fun when i play fun for me may be attacking a mob 5 or 10 lvls over me just to see if i can take them or how long i will last before i die that is NOT something you would want to do in a group. I also like exploring new zones (just sight seeing) also not really group friendly except in CoX. I also like the ability to go afk for a few min whenever i need to for RL issues ( which is not as big an issue in CoX as in WoW). I also think the LFG system in some games really need to be re-thought love the 1 in CoX hate the 1 in WoW. And NO i am not a WoW basher I currently play and i like WoW (WotLK is fun Go DK's)  it just seems to be more difficult to get and keep a group in WoW. I also think that content should scale according to group size many mmo's don't seem to do that (CoX does WoW doesn't) but then we get into instancing vs non-instanced and i don't want to start that up agian on this forum...... I think what was said about some games setting quests up for solo and full group is right on the money a bit of scalable content for each quest might help a bit. TBH i would really like to group more but on some games it seems the problem with grouping is the people you have to group with....   That said i still love MMO's and the concept on which they are built. They just seem to be missing a few things IMO. It seems like a LOT of good ideas are spread out over a LOT of different MMO's we just need to wait till 1 is made that puts most of them together under 1 MMO.

To sum up my thoughts grouping has a number of glaring flaws and negatives and a few positive ones in many of the MMO's i have played not sure if this was done on purpose or if this is just a side effect of the way the games were made or the way they are being played by the gaming community. Then again it could be all those things and a lot more meh.... now i am rambling again ...   Fine i will stop interesting topic as always.

... and BTW if any one is wondering : WoW = World of Warcraft

                                                   CoX = City of Heroes + City of Villains

                                                           DK's = Death Knights

P.S - Neither my Spellchecker or Grammer checker is working  

Nice answer.

I totally agree with you about how groups always seem to want to rush to complete an instance, as though it were some race,  Just because one of the team may have played it before, it should not prevent  everyone else from taking in the vistas and enjoying any cut-scenes.  Or worse, when there is a quest giver in the dungeon, and everyone just hits accept!  I REALLY hate that.  I want to read the text so that the quest has some context, and that all of the graphical nuances that the dev's may have added due to this, or not lost on me, just because everybody hit 'accept' and ran off.

Also, I also like to solo and take my time exploring new zones.  As I've stated before, I am not against solo-ing, as I do it more than I group.  It's just that grouping seems to be happening less and less, and even when you do, there is not the same sense of comaraderie that their used to be.

If dev's are angling games more towards the solo player. then why can't they add more interesting things to do (like in Fable 2?) just to keep the gameworld alive and fresh?

why do i solo?

because somedays i feel like i've dealt with enough people in my day and i dont feel like socializing in-game either. So instead of doing something with my guild ill go pvp solo or level solo. MMORPGs dont have a specific way of playing them. You play them how you want to, and not for the reason others tell you.

Originally posted by UNATCOII

 

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Originally posted by Majestico
But when I play so  many great single player games, I have to wonder the incentive for the solo gamer.

---

 

Huh?

If you play "so many great single player games" and don't know why, why ask others for a reason to explain it???

I play solo for no commitments; can harvest to abandon; can craft to abandon; and simply not have to deal with the 10000001 soap operas MMOs bring with it (enough of it in RL as it is). Basically, the only BS I want is from that beastie that looks tempting to get his hide to craft out of.

Not everyone is interested in killing everything for "lewtz" (frankly, that's getting quite o-l-d to me, as if I needed to kill so much and in a group/raid, I would be playing a FPS game).
 

I don't understand what you are getting at.

You have taken my qoute out of context.  I was wondering why there is so much great content in single-player games that could easily be added to MMO's so that solo-ing would be a much more interesting experience. 

Originally posted by Miner-2049er

I'm tired of people telling me how to play and what to wear. Telling me why my build is wrong etc. None of these people have ever really thougt about it, they've just read it on some guide site that tells them how to think, and what to do, then they bore me with it.
............................
Don't worry I'm enjoying the games I play, but in most MMOs these days the grouping experience is crap.

Those are good points, and the first one is a big reason I stopped wanting to do PuGs.  I enjoy speccing the way I feel is good for me, and I don't like having someone stuff their idea of a "perfect build" for a few more DPS or +Healing down my throat.  If the build works, it works; it doesn't have to be the same as someone who spends their days figuring all the calculations for everything and what build goes with it.  Anyways, now if I'm going to do dungeons or group quests it's usually only with close friends, or guildies that aren't perfectionists.  Otherwise, I prefer to do stuff solo...which brings me to my main reason I guess.  It's really just as simple as I enjoy it, really.  I'll talk to people through whispers, or chat, but when it comes to running quests I don't feel the need to have a big group doing it.  Besides, like Miner said, the groups anymore are usually crap.  I'm not fond of pre-teens calling everyone names, or people that don't take the time to type properly.  I guess I'm just a perfectionist in my own way, and I don't mingle well!

Originally posted by wjrasmussen

Originally posted by Majestico

Originally posted by wjrasmussen

Originally posted by nomadian

 

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Originally posted by wjrasmussen

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Originally posted by Majestico
Whether by design or not, I just had to wonder why someone would choose to play an MMO mostly solo.

---

And yet they do that. So they don't seem to have a problem with it. So if there is a problem, it's yours.

 

Perhaps it would be better if you just minded your own business and let people enjoy games they way that like to enjoy them and for yourself to enjoy what you enjoy.

 

---

 

god's sake he's genuinely interested in the reason why people solo, he already admitted it's their game and people can play how they want.

 

He also put a restriction on some answers.  IMO, that is just playing forum games.

 

Sadly, you had neither the patience or the understanding to grasp my discussion matter.

First of all,  you took a minute quote from my post and mis-represented my arguement.  Did you even read what I wrote?  Or were you so desperate to try and nullify an issue, I don't think you undersrood?

If you had taken the time to actually read my post before retorting (kind of what people do in a debate - they wait for to hear the person's arguement before making up their mind), then you would have understood that I am not bashing anyone's playing style.  I for one solo for quite a lot of the time, and I was curious as to this was going to be an increasing phenomenon, (which is ironic seeing as the genre is socially based).

Of course all of this was oblivious to you, and only became apparent when Nomadian illustrated how vapid and malicious your first post was.

At which point, I figure you actually went back and read my original post, and possibly skimmed some off the other posters who had contentions with my post.

This was done I guess so that you could try and redeem some form credit for not coming across as an illiterate moron, which in your final statement you lost any fragment of cred, and revealed to all that  you are one of the multitude of people in today's society that need to learn to read before trying to rubbish someone's opinion.

And for your information, I did not put any restrictions on people's answers, I merely did not want to hear the same reasons that people solo, as I do!  Otherwise what would be the point?  My interest was in why some people solo - ALL THE TIME!  It interests me because I think there is something odd happening in what is supposedly a 'social gaming genre' and wanted to hear these people's views.  I expressed that I did not want to hear things like, 'ye I someyimes solo a lot, because I have not a lot of time'. and the other examples I gave - simply because I AM one of those people.  Understand now?

As for your statement of forum games?  I'm sorry, I am the one who does not understand this time, am are curious to what you mean?

And to everyone else who thinks I have been too hard on this guy?  Well I am sorry, but when you try and start a serious debate, only to have some nugget try and de-rail it after the first post.  Puts me off.

Now, I'm off to bed.

Hey, you are the one who can't figure it out despite the fact that people do solo.  What you don't see is that this isn't the first time this topic has been brought up.  Usually it's from a guy who doesn't like how soloing has killed his idea of the proper way to play the game.
 

Soloing can be fun. And soloing in an mmorpg doesn't have to be the same as in a crpg.  For example, someone might be one of those people who play the market.  Buying and selling for profit.   Hard to do in a crpg.

Sorry it has taken me so long to respond to your latest intellectual masterpiece, but I never noticed it amongst the other, more interesting posts.

First off - I really hate it when someone says a lame comment about a topic having been discussed before.  That was their discussion, and I was not a part of it.  I am not going to use the search engine so I can look one up, and see if it has any relevance to my question, do you know why?  The reason being that is a FORUM!

A forum is a place where people come to debate issues, and have conversations (in the case of this one it happens to be about MMORPG;s).  I believe it comes from roman times, when the senate would gather in their 'forum' to discuss the issues of the day.

That is why I don't mind when I see the same subjects being discussed a lot of the time.  Sure, there may have been hundreds of like minded conversations (topics like, the next WoW beater, etc)  and I don't feel the need (like many sad people do) to actually enter their discussion merely to post something like ; 'you know this topic has been done before?'.  What do these guys get out of that anyway?  Do you think that everyone who was having the discussion is going to read that post and think, ' My God, he's right! Let us stop this discussion right away and go and read some of the older ones!'.

You keep refering to me having some sort of 'problem' trying to figure out about solo-ing.  Have you actually read any of my posts?  I am not trying to compare solo-ing in MMO's to single player rpg's.  However in actual fact, MMORPG's were originally a concept to enable people who played crpg's - and also many of them also played pen and paper rpg's and MUDS, so that they could all play together, (not necessarily in a group, although that was probably expected as where is the fun in playing D&D with one player?).   And I wish I had been on the net during that time so I could have been a part of those glory days of EQ and UO.

What I was trying to rreference with the crpg, was why can't devs include more things into the game world to make it more fun?  Other than just combat?  I use Fable 2 a lot as an example.  There could be loads of fun stuff to do in an MMORPG rather than just combat, and it would make it more fun also to solo.

As to my original question?  I don't have a problem with people solo-ing, as you would know if you read my posts (I solo much more than I group).  Then after I went back and played some next-gen games, I began to question why I was paying these companies subscriptions, when basically all there is to do is kill stuff, no matter how you dress it up.  And not even in a fun way either, as the companies have to make combat slow so that it takes longer to level (everything in MMO's is designed to take up time, so that you keep having to sub).  I mean, have you never wondered why most if not all of these games are merely pressing hot-keys allocated to a skill?  That's not proper combat.  Where is the MMO that has proper fighting, even if it was like diablo, or Fable 2, Force Unleashed.  They could do it, and it would be great fun.  But it be too quick for them.

So now I wondered if more people are just simply solo-ing, and wanting to have a discussion about it, to see if it was just me, or it really was happening more.  I was also interested to hear reasons why people who NEVER group play MMO's.  I was/am genuinely curious.