Originally posted by Dameonk

I'm not involved in marketing and I have never released a product to the public for purchase so I would really like an answer to this question from someone more knowledgeable than me. 

Why couldn't they self publish?

I would think that self publishing a direct download/purchase model partnered with someone like Direct2Drive and NO IP blocking would have been a better way to go.  Are having boxes in game stores really important enough to agree to IP blocking?

I guess the developers are hoping to replace all of their long-time followers who will not be playing the game now with people who just randomly buy games because the box looks pretty.  That doesn't make much sense to me.

Someone earlier said that no one wishes the game to fail.  I do.  I hope it fails hard.  That is the only way another developer won't make the same stupid mistake.  If they do OK then another game coming out soon might go "Well Spellborn still did OK even with IP blocking, I guess we can do the same thing."

I do not want that.   I have 23 friends who are in different countries throughout Europe and US who were all looking forward to this game.  Since we can't play together we all agreed that none of us will play. 

Setting up an online shop isn't even the problem.

You are forgetting the most important part of all: The Game Servers

You need a Data Center location, buy all the hardware (wich is crazy expensive), set it all up yourself and have professional staff to maintain it 24/7.

Then you have to set up your own Customer Support and Game Support and hire staff for it and train them.

Also, you would like to have your game marketed. Setting up a Mutli-langual Marketing Department with people in various countries to get the product marketed in all the countries.

Cheers

Originally posted by Guillermo197

Setting up an online shop isn't even the problem.

You are forgetting the most important part of all: The Game Servers

You need a Data Center location, buy all the hardware (wich is crazy expensive), set it all up yourself and have professional staff to maintain it 24/7.

Then you have to set up your own Customer Support and Game Support and hire staff for it and train them.

Also, you would like to have your game marketed. Setting up a Mutli-langual Marketing Department with people in various countries to get the product marketed in all the countries.

Cheers

You can rent servers and they are not that expensive anyways.

There are many companies that rent out customer service also, no problem. And you can just have the custom service in UK for us too and relay the calls, it isn't that expensive. Or force the poor customers to do their business by mail, many companies do that.

Bingo with the marketing. It is far easier to market a game with a publisher than by yourself. In Europe they are basicly marketting it with the band "Within temptation" and some webb adds but that ain't enough for the US market, I don't think americans know who WT are anyways.

Here is the Within temptation Video with Spellborn if you havn't seen it: www.youtube.com/watch

I would like to start posting the probable demise of games even before the though of !

Woodchuck online : empire of wood  <---  This game will never make it cause of the open pvp world!!!!

Originally posted by Guillermo197

Originally posted by Dameonk

I'm not involved in marketing and I have never released a product to the public for purchase so I would really like an answer to this question from someone more knowledgeable than me. 

Why couldn't they self publish?

I would think that self publishing a direct download/purchase model partnered with someone like Direct2Drive and NO IP blocking would have been a better way to go.  Are having boxes in game stores really important enough to agree to IP blocking?

I guess the developers are hoping to replace all of their long-time followers who will not be playing the game now with people who just randomly buy games because the box looks pretty.  That doesn't make much sense to me.

Someone earlier said that no one wishes the game to fail.  I do.  I hope it fails hard.  That is the only way another developer won't make the same stupid mistake.  If they do OK then another game coming out soon might go "Well Spellborn still did OK even with IP blocking, I guess we can do the same thing."

I do not want that.   I have 23 friends who are in different countries throughout Europe and US who were all looking forward to this game.  Since we can't play together we all agreed that none of us will play. 

 

Setting up an online shop isn't even the problem.

You are forgetting the most important part of all: The Game Servers

You need a Data Center location, buy all the hardware (wich is crazy expensive), set it all up yourself and have professional staff to maintain it 24/7.

Then you have to set up your own Customer Support and Game Support and hire staff for it and train them.

Also, you would like to have your game marketed. Setting up a Mutli-langual Marketing Department with people in various countries to get the product marketed in all the countries.

Cheers

1.  Rent them.
 

2.  You don't need to pay the staff their entire salary up front.  There would be some money required for training and prelaunch, then post-launch the monthly fees would pay for their wages.  This point is a non-factor.

3.  Marketing?  Haven't seen squat for marketing for this game outside of a couple spots on mmorpg.com, tbh.  If they have a "marketing" department, they need to be fired, since they're not doing anything more than the devs could cover on their lunch breaks.  Big budget games get marketing, this gets a couple banner ads and some interviews.

It was not only a poor choice to agree to the IP blocks, as it's going to severely impact their playerbase, they're actively supporting it by taking down the current forums and replacing them with IP blocked forums, so it can't all be brushed off onto the publishers...if it is the publishers, which I originally thought, but after the ipblock forums, I'm not so sure.  I'm not buying the game until such time as the ipblocks are removed, and I sincerely hope that others speak up similarly with their wallets.  If they take too long, I'll just skip it for the next big thing, whatever that might be, as I don't care to start a pvp game when the majority of the population has a significant level advantage.

Yay new unique concept is wished down the drain! I love all of you guys! Let's just keep playing WoW and never touch a new MMO ever, even if it has a new, unique working concept!

It will be and should be as good as dead, adapting is for pussies!

I see your concern and yes I would be pissed if the US would be cut up into three or four states, I would still have to play it and try to advertise it if it's as fun as people say. I am hoping in the future they do something about the issue. I am dying for something new and refreshing at this point.

pronounced.

Originally posted by Honkie

 

3.  Marketing?  Haven't seen squat for marketing for this game outside of a couple spots on mmorpg.com, tbh.  If they have a "marketing" department, they need to be fired, since they're not doing anything more than the devs could cover on their lunch breaks.  Big budget games get marketing, this gets a couple banner ads and some interviews.

They spent alot in marketing. Didn't you see all the promotion they were doing for the band Within Temptation? Of course, the band was supposed to be promoting them. Funnily enough, now more people know about the band than have ever even heard the game mentioned in passing.

I am a Canadian working and living in France. My French is do able but not good enough to interact with people on comfortable levels. And now i am forced to play on FRENCH only servers? great. Why would anyone even bother with this game? really?

Originally posted by Zorvan
 

They spent alot in marketing. Didn't you see all the promotion they were doing for the band Within Temptation? Of course, the band was supposed to be promoting them. Funnily enough, now more people know about the band than have ever even heard the game mentioned in passing.

I saw a link to the band, I think it was on their site.  That was all I saw for marketing on that.  Perhaps they aimed more at the euro market with their "marketing"?  Idk, all I saw were a few tidbits here, and...I think I signed up for the original closed beta based on a beta seeking site back in early 06, though that wasn't really game advertising.

     I remember playing EQ with several people from Europe and I loved it....I learned alot about their cultures, their value systems, many things........To me it is a loss when the servers are seperated by countries.......

Originally posted by Honkie

Originally posted by Zorvan
 

They spent alot in marketing. Didn't you see all the promotion they were doing for the band Within Temptation? Of course, the band was supposed to be promoting them. Funnily enough, now more people know about the band than have ever even heard the game mentioned in passing.

 

I saw a link to the band, I think it was on their site.  That was all I saw for marketing on that.  Perhaps they aimed more at the euro market with their "marketing"?  Idk, all I saw were a few tidbits here, and...I think I signed up for the original closed beta based on a beta seeking site back in early 06, though that wasn't really game advertising.

It was about a year or so ago, right before I got in closed beta, when they were hyping their connection with Within Temptation and making a big deal because a band noone had even heard of was doing their song "The Howling" for TCoS. Like I said, they spent more energy hyping the band than they did their game. Very sad, really.

Originally posted by Zorvan

 

It was about a year or so ago, right before I got in closed beta, when they were hyping their connection with Within Temptation and making a big deal because a band noone had even heard of was doing their song "The Howling" for TCoS. Like I said, they spent more energy hyping the band than they did their game. Very sad, really.

Within Temptation is maybe not well known by you, but they had some really big hits years ago and they are still immensely popular here in Europe at least.

I am not a big fan of them, but I do know them and saw their music videos all over MTV.

Originally posted by Zorvan

Originally posted by Honkie

Originally posted by Zorvan
 

They spent alot in marketing. Didn't you see all the promotion they were doing for the band Within Temptation? Of course, the band was supposed to be promoting them. Funnily enough, now more people know about the band than have ever even heard the game mentioned in passing.

 

I saw a link to the band, I think it was on their site.  That was all I saw for marketing on that.  Perhaps they aimed more at the euro market with their "marketing"?  Idk, all I saw were a few tidbits here, and...I think I signed up for the original closed beta based on a beta seeking site back in early 06, though that wasn't really game advertising.

 

It was about a year or so ago, right before I got in closed beta, when they were hyping their connection with Within Temptation and making a big deal because a band noone had even heard of was doing their song "The Howling" for TCoS. Like I said, they spent more energy hyping the band than they did their game. Very sad, really.

Within Temptation are pretty big in the euro goth scene mate. They fill arenas I'm actually quite a fan of theirs and see them whenever they play locally. They're similar to Nightwish and probably more popular since Tarja left.

They decided to kill themself when they said that uk couldn't play in eu.

Originally posted by tankas

Well imo if all Tcos team (i mean devs and both publishers NA and EU) won''t find a agreement (or a map at least  ) you can tag this mmo as good as dead (at least in EU) because i don't think that some of the playr base in Europe would like to play with NA (no offence) coz of time line and rest of the EU won't play the game without their friends so well. RIP

No liberal use of the ( )'s

lol. could someone give me a reason why to split up servers for countries?! and why the IP blocking?! I'm from Germany and always loved it to play with ppl from the us and uk.

Originally posted by darwa

Originally posted by Zorvan

Originally posted by Honkie

Originally posted by Zorvan
 

They spent alot in marketing. Didn't you see all the promotion they were doing for the band Within Temptation? Of course, the band was supposed to be promoting them. Funnily enough, now more people know about the band than have ever even heard the game mentioned in passing.

 

I saw a link to the band, I think it was on their site.  That was all I saw for marketing on that.  Perhaps they aimed more at the euro market with their "marketing"?  Idk, all I saw were a few tidbits here, and...I think I signed up for the original closed beta based on a beta seeking site back in early 06, though that wasn't really game advertising.

 

It was about a year or so ago, right before I got in closed beta, when they were hyping their connection with Within Temptation and making a big deal because a band noone had even heard of was doing their song "The Howling" for TCoS. Like I said, they spent more energy hyping the band than they did their game. Very sad, really.

 

Within Temptation are pretty big in the euro goth scene mate. They fill arenas I'm actually quite a fan of theirs and see them whenever they play locally. They're similar to Nightwish and probably more popular since Tarja left.

True, but very few if any Americans knew who they were at the time ( myself included ). I've actually grown quite fond of their music. Point is, Spellborn promoted Within Temptation well enough for us Americans to learn who and what the band is. How well has Within Temptation promoted Spellborn to Americans in return?

Perhaps it was a good marketing choice for EU, but I think it may be one factor in why Spellborn got stuck scraping the barrel with Acclaim in the U.S.

I think with Darkfall now having a release date, TCOS is going to have a huge mountain to climb now, If they had'nt split apart europe and had IP blocking they may of had a chance.

I know this game is'nt meant to be Free to play , but its heading that way fast . Its a real shame because I was in the Beta and its a reasonably good game. Add to this now the info thay it is the Dev's themselves to blame for the IP blocking idea and not Acclaim , I'm afraid its not looking good for this game.

I wish them well and yeah I am pissed about the whole splitting Europe thing and IP blocking .. but I would'nt want anygame to fail,in this case though I feel they have brought it on themselves.

Originally posted by daylight01

Originally posted by Delanor

It is too soon to make any conclusions based on the little we know. How IP blocking will affect us is still unknown. It is also not know what consequences IP blocking will have. It is not certain whether Europe will be split up for us players.

But even when they decide to split the European community in two, we will not know how that will work out.

I have ordered the game and am gonna play it  for at  least 3 months just because the game is that good and worth it and deserves my money. Whether I will keep playing beyond that depends on many things still unknown.

 

http://community.sigames.com/showthread.php?t=71406

 

spain and Italy etc will play on Acclaim run servers along with the UK and US just as I thought,the 11 other european countries will be on other servers.

Bye bye spellborn.

I agree.

If it's not the death of the game, its a severe crippling of its potential before it even had a release...

It's dead to me though (Northern Irish - United Kingdom IP address :/ )
it's dead to the rest of my guild, my fellow europeans who will just keep playing WOW / WAR with each other rather than be bothered with this ass-hattery approach to game publishing.

shame.

I really wanted to give it a go, love the art direction.

Thankyou Acclaim for your blatant greed and gross misunderstanding of european MMO demographics.

tagem and baggem.

I have a disagreement with how acclaim runs there games, so when I heard tcos was going to be published in NA by them, my immediate thought was to abandon it. Its a shame, too, since the game is beautiful, and in my experience, very fun.

Originally posted by Noimi

I have a disagreement with how acclaim runs there games, so when I heard tcos was going to be published in NA by them, my immediate thought was to abandon it. Its a shame, too, since the game is beautiful, and in my experience, very fun.

Your experience ? are you a beta tester ?

Well, after playing TCoS for a month, I think it has a good potential to be tagged as dead.

EU servers are practically void of any life. It awfully reminds me the same situation when the game was still in beta - they  usually had good activity first week and then nobody was playing it anymore after a month, except a handful of their hardcore fans (like 10 people in total at the best).

IP ban probably is to blame for screwed up EU release, but I have a feeling that failure is not only that.  First zones are ok and fresh, but then you get to not working instances (like Citadel of Fail), novelty wears off and people figure that there actually is not that much to do in game, not to mention that the game end content is not existent and probably not even tested, if it is even in production.

So yeah, v. bad IP strategy, very bad marketing and usual "first zones polished, rest will be done in 2 years" syndrom probably will kill the game off in half of the year.

Originally posted by Alengwan

Well, after playing TCoS for a month, I think it has a good potential to be tagged as dead.

EU servers are practically void of any life. It awfully reminds me the same situation when the game was still in beta - they  usually had good activity first week and then nobody was playing it anymore after a month, except a handful of their hardcore fans (like 10 people in total at the best).

IP ban probably is to blame for screwed up EU release, but I have a feeling that failure is not only that.  First zones are ok and fresh, but then you get to not working instances (like Citadel of Fail), novelty wears off and people figure that there actually is not that much to do in game, not to mention that the game end content is not existent and probably not even tested, if it is even in production.

So yeah, v. bad IP strategy, very bad marketing and usual "first zones polished, rest will be done in 2 years" syndrom probably will kill the game off in half of the year.

Yes because there is not such thing as European Servers in TCOS.
Germany, France, Netherland and Belgium are hardly Europe, they are just a small part of Europe.
UK, Ireland, Italy, Spain, Scandinavia, Portugal, Greece, Austria, Poland and all the other East European countries, have been excluded from the so called "European launch"

For me the big mistake has been to exclude the UK from the European launch.
It is not that the UK is better than others, but when there are lots of English speaking servers, usually people tend to play on those, rather than the localised ones.
TCOS is a small game and cannot afford to have localisation, they should have launched the game just with English speaking servers and for ALL fucking Europe.

Only if the game was really successful they should have added localised servers.
Way to go Frogster.

That would probably be my biggest concern. I am Dutch myself but the last thing I want is a game which has most people speaking in the Dutch language. I want to play on English Speaking servers and hopefully have the rest have the courtesy to speak that same language.

With the UK cut out of the language pool that english barrier might be more difficult to uphold than it already is.