Originally posted by Waterlily

Originally posted by Lidane

However, they were clearly in the minority if SOE has expanded their RMT model to include StationCash.

 

I'm pretty sure they were and are the majority. There was a poll a while back, which isn't allowed on the official EQ forums fyi, and over 90% was against LoN.

If you were a current EQ player or had been for the last couple of years you would know this.

LoN is succesfull because some people did spend an awfull lot of money on it and it was making a profit. But understand that you don't need to even play EQ to play LoN.  I can assure you that if you did get a poll through again you would see the exact same result, which is the majority of EQplayers being completely opposed to RMT.

If you believe otherwise, I invite you to come look on the EQ forums and look at the top most thread with over 200 responces which are undeniably overly against Station Cash and RMT.

I played EQ from launch to Ykesha and check in on the forums from time to time.

I've no doubt that things like LoN, RMT, and StationCash are controversial over there. I've seen the most recent threads, and know that things are pretty heated. Still, the complaints being raised on the boards will fall on deaf ears when compared to the money being made.

SOE is making money from active EQ and EQ2 subscribers via Legends of Norrath, and it was clearly enough money to expand the RMT model. That's all that really matters in the end. If the money wasn't there before, StationCash wouldn't exist now. Period.

Originally Posted by SeanDahlberg
Hey everyone, sorry for not chiming in right with this but I wanted to confirm the accuracy of what I was going to say before posting it.

This unfortunately was a big misunderstanding and I want to be clear: we have made no official statements about the business model for Star Wars™: The Old Republic™.

When we do have information as to business model for The Old Republic, we will definitely share it with all of you and you’ll find that information here on the official website.

http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?t=9509

Many of us have involuntarily quit MMORPGs.

The gaming industry is a bull market, but the MMORPG industry is undergoing the process of a dramatically recharacterization in form and payment:

• Freedom to Forced;
• Options to Linear;
• Sophisticated to Dumbed-Down;
• World Immersion to No Immersion
• Monthly Fee to Payment Schemes

We have tolerated a lot, especially the "immersion" gamers among us. 

Will we tolerate this kind of thing?  For the sake of this industry, I hope not.  

Originally posted by DeaconX

Originally Posted by SeanDahlberg
Hey everyone, sorry for not chiming in right with this but I wanted to confirm the accuracy of what I was going to say before posting it.

This unfortunately was a big misunderstanding and I want to be clear: we have made no official statements about the business model for Star Wars™: The Old Republic™.

When we do have information as to business model for The Old Republic, we will definitely share it with all of you and you’ll find that information here on the official website.

http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?t=9509

Deacon it's the exact same thing they said when Riccotello prematurely announced the game was Star Wars based. I don't think anyoe is going to give them a nod and a wink on this. It's just that bad.

Originally posted by declaredemer

Many of us have involuntarily quit MMORPGs.

This is overly dramatic nonsense unless you've been banned from every MMO you've played. There's no such thing as involuntarily quitting. You either quit a game, or you don't.

Originally posted by Lidane

Originally posted by declaredemer

Many of us have involuntarily quit MMORPGs.

This is overly dramatic nonsense unless you've been banned from every MMO you've played. There's no such thing as involuntarily quitting. You either quit a game, or you don't.

You have missed my point. 

My point is that many people are not playing MMORPGs because of the direction in which they are going:

• No Freedom
• Linear Gameplay
• Addicting/Repetitive Content
• Uninspiring Worlds
• Monthly Fee to Payment Schemes

People want to play MMORPGs.  I know I do.  But the industry does not want our money; they want to force us to play as they want us to, and now suck more money of us to do it!

Not for me.  Not for many of us. 

Originally posted by declaredemer

Originally posted by Lidane

Originally posted by declaredemer

Many of us have involuntarily quit MMORPGs.

This is overly dramatic nonsense unless you've been banned from every MMO you've played. There's no such thing as involuntarily quitting. You either quit a game, or you don't.

 

You have missed my point. 

 

My point is that many people are not playing MMORPGs because of the direction in which they are going

That's not involuntarily quitting a genre. That's you deciding not to play for your own reasons.

Originally posted by Lidane

Originally posted by declaredemer

Originally posted by Lidane

Originally posted by declaredemer

Many of us have involuntarily quit MMORPGs.

This is overly dramatic nonsense unless you've been banned from every MMO you've played. There's no such thing as involuntarily quitting. You either quit a game, or you don't.

 

You have missed my point. 

 

My point is that many people are not playing MMORPGs because of the direction in which they are going

 

That's not involuntarily quitting a genre. That's you deciding not to play for your own reasons.

You are still missing his point.  I have quit playing MMOs not for my reasons, but because MMOs are not worth playing anymore. Of course in the end is my personal decision, but it's caused by the worthless MMOs we have now.

Originally posted by declaredemer

Originally posted by Lidane

Originally posted by declaredemer

Many of us have involuntarily quit MMORPGs.

This is overly dramatic nonsense unless you've been banned from every MMO you've played. There's no such thing as involuntarily quitting. You either quit a game, or you don't.

 

You have missed my point. 

 

My point is that many people are not playing MMORPGs because of the direction in which they are going:

• No Freedom
• Linear Gameplay
• Addicting/Repetitive Content
• Uninspiring Worlds
• Monthly Fee to Payment Schemes

 

People want to play MMORPGs.  I know I do.  But the industry does not want our money; they want to force us to play as they want us to, and now suck more money of us to do it!

 

Not for me.  Not for many of us. 

I agree, I am not going to play a game that leads me in a direction, or forces me to quest just to advance at a decent pace.   Some (maybe not many) like me love the grind and killing NPCS.  Especially NPCS way above my level and surviving.  But what is the point of doing that if your going to fall behind just because you don't want to quest. 

I hate quests unless it gives some kind of epic/rare gear.  

As for the payment schemes they are trying.  I refuse to pay real money for certain items in a game.  I like to earn or find them.  The only way I will play is if it is a monthly basis and I can eventually attain access to all the content from that 1 monthly fee.

The endless theme park games have to stop, or a lot of people that enjoyed the freedom in games like UO, EQ, and SWG (Pre-CU/NGE) will stop playing the games.

Originally posted by altairzq

Originally posted by Lidane

Originally posted by declaredemer

Originally posted by Lidane

Originally posted by declaredemer

Many of us have involuntarily quit MMORPGs.

This is overly dramatic nonsense unless you've been banned from every MMO you've played. There's no such thing as involuntarily quitting. You either quit a game, or you don't.

 

You have missed my point. 

 

My point is that many people are not playing MMORPGs because of the direction in which they are going

 

That's not involuntarily quitting a genre. That's you deciding not to play for your own reasons.

 

You are still missing his point.  I have quit playing MMOs not for my reasons, but because MMOs are not worth playing anymore. Of course in the end is my personal decision, but it's caused by the worthless MMOs we have now.

?

But aren't those your reasons? That you feel they aren't worth playing anymore?

To a certain extent trying to get more money out of the customers they have is a response to new MMO’s more and more diluting the MMO player population. So with less subscription income they look for other means to generate income.

But I agree it’s a dire prospect which may do more harm to MMO’s than good.

Originally posted by altairzq

 

You are still missing his point.  I have quit playing MMOs not for my reasons, but because MMOs are not worth playing anymore. Of course in the end is my personal decision, but it's caused by the worthless MMOs we have now.

Exactly.

Many of us have money.  Have desire.  Have interest.  We really want to "get into" MMORPGs.  We have the heart and stomach of "immersion gamers" but the industry has failed to supply us a game.  We want to play.  But they will not let us.  And they keep making titles that are contrary to immersion games, which is why I mostly play GTA IV and Warcraft III:  FT. 

The MMORPG industry is undergoing a dramatic shift in which the creative energies will be focused on how to suck another dollar.

Threads like this are posted constantly, but, seriously, there are games that are being innovative in content and gameplay, they just aren't being made by the big companies. If you want innovative gameplay to succeed, support the games that are being innovating, such as The Chronicles of Spellborn. This is out in EU already (but not UK), and will be out pretty much everywhere else soon.

Ok im not sure what this thread is about? yes SOME MMORPG games get worse or are crappy then other MMORPGS and some new ones end up being worse the the worse one you can think of lol... but in OVERALL... ya there getting better, better stories ect... but you also have too remember that for every GREAT MMORPG... 50 of  them are horribe... (if you count all those Free MMORPG games) if you count only the payed ones... then for every Great MMORPG game there are 2 Bad ones... also you have too remember that You might HATE games like WoW and Love Games like Earthrise and some ppl are the other way around and think your an idiot for liking those games... which is why its hard for companies too make a good MMORPG since they have too guess what ppl will like NEXT and not come out with something already out or something youve just played.

Originally posted by Exclam

Threads like this are posted constantly, but, seriously, there are games that are being innovative in content and gameplay, they just aren't being made by the big companies. If you want innovative gameplay to succeed, support the games that are being innovating, such as The Chronicles of Spellborn. This is out in EU already (but not UK), and will be out pretty much everywhere else soon.

Exactly. And what about Ryzom? How many people are flocking to that?

In the end it comes down to "well, that game really didn't interest me". Ok, fair enough, but game companies can't keep churning out endless games just in case someone likes one of them.

True you shouldn't play something you aren't interested in but indie companies only have so many resources. If they fail and keep failing then all you are going to have are the larger games.

But again, the gaming industry is going through what music and theater and art went through. Eventually there is a commoditization of the product and the things that are different fall at the far ends of the bell curve.

Originally posted by happilpie

 

I hate quests unless it gives some kind of epic/rare gear.  

 

 I refuse to pay real money for certain items in a game.  I like to earn or find them.  The only way I will play is if it is a monthly basis and I can eventually attain access to all the content from that 1 monthly fee.

This hits the heart of it, really.

We want to "earn" our items, our gear, our levels, and so forth.  We want to develop a unique character.   We want to customize our character through our efforts.  The shift, now, and this big players are all doing it at the same time, is for us to pay for these things.  No more immersion.  No more content.  No more gameplay.  Want an item?  Pay 10 bucks.  Create an "electronic wallet" to buy things.  

Instead of the industry taking a dramatic shift and moving toward freedom, innovation, customization, and immersion ... it is going from monthly fee to payment schemes.

• Content, gameplay, and worlds will have to be altered to suck more money out of people, regardless of the form of the scheme:  pay-as-you-play, microtransactional, "electronic wallet," etc.
• All of the creative energies will be focused now, instead, on sucking another buck out of the MMORPG consumer.
• This is the worst thing to happen to MMORPGs since forced-raiding, which itself is finally dying.

Originally posted by altairzq

You are still missing his point.

No, I'm not.

I have quit playing MMOs not for my reasons, but because MMOs are not worth playing anymore. Of course in the end is my personal decision, but it's caused by the worthless MMOs we have now.

If it was your personal decision to quit, then it wasn't involuntary. I don't care what the reasons are at all. That's the point.

I've quit MMO's over the years for a variety of reasons, but I CHOSE to quit. We all make choices whether or not to play these games. No one is holding a gun to your head forcing you to play, or forcing you to quit.

 Someone needs to step outside, or take a look at the economy as shown on MSNBC. Games are a product, and products produce money. With our economy being in recession, people producing products are finding more attractive ways to make money. This is one of them. Do I agree with micro transactions? No. But does it matter what I think? No. People want money, if you dont want to pay, then don't support the product. But if you were the head of a company, in this economy, and your company is about to fold, like SOE, then what would you do to increase sales across the board? Deliver more content when you can't even hire more developers and are already cutting some? Fix gameplay issues when you can't afford to hire a coder? 

Another person who logically thinks gamers should control what developers produce, when in fact its developers producing what investors want. If you got 10 million, you can make a difference. But since you don't, be happy this isn't in the game you currently play. And if it is, then live with it or move on. Gamers don't make decisions, investors do. Doesn't anybody remeber that song, "Money makes the world go round!". Think it was by NAS or someshit. 

Lidane,

You are missing the point. 

Many of us have involuntarily quit, not through coercion, but because of

• Content,
• Gameplay,
• World Immersion, and
• Creative Payment Schemes.

We want to play.  We have the desire to play.  We have the computer to play.  We have the money to play.  We have the heart and stomach of immersion gamers.  

They will not let us play.    You do not see how a person's choice could be, in some circumstances, though a choice, an involuntarily choice.  You tend to believe all choices are voluntarily, which is not necessarily a good thing but beyond the scope of this discussion.

Content, gameplay, world immersion, and the future payment schemes are causing people to involuntarily quit MMORPGs.  Again, we want to play.  We really do.  

Originally posted by mackdawg19 

With our economy being in recession, people producing products are finding more attractive ways to make money.

Using the economy as a justification, if not an excuse, to take this industry to a creatively ugly direction is, to suggest the least, over-the-top.  Gaming is a bull market.  1 in 5 over 65 play games at least once a week.  Young people are playing 4 to 5 hours a day on average.

MMORPGs that lack content, gameplay, world immersion, and features that the gaming community desire and want might be in a recession.  Gaming is not in a recession.  EA is suffering because the boycott is working.  As reported in today's Wall Street Journal, "consumer tastes have shifted away from EA products."  That is not my quote.  I did not say that, a Wall Street Journal columnist did.  People, including EA employees, are fed up with this monster.  The word is out. 

EA's model is a model based on acquire, milk, and destroy - money

EA is dieing as a result

For immersion gamers, there is a vast sea of untapped money and wealth that this industry has neglected for all too long. 

MMORPGs suffer because:

1. They try to copy WoW, unsuccessfully;
2. They do not create games for "immersion gamers";
3. They are implementing payment schemes to mask (1) and (2).

Originally posted by declaredemer

Lidane,

 

 

You are missing the point. 

 

 

Many of us have involuntarily quit, not through coercion, but because of

• Content,
• Gameplay,
• World Immersion, and
• Creative Payment Schemes.

 

We want to play.  We have the desire to play.  We have the computer to play.  We have the money to play.  We have the heart and stomach of immersion gamers.  

 

They will not let us play.    You do not see how a person's choice could be, in some circumstances, though a choice, an involuntarily choice.  You tend to believe all choices are voluntarily, which is not necessarily a good thing but beyond the scope of this discussion.

 

Content, gameplay, world immersion, and the future payment schemes are causing people to involuntarily quit MMORPGs.  Again, we want to play.  We really do.  

 

And the only thing that is stopping you is yourself. You say we as though you speak for the majority, but you don't. If you don't agree with thier payment model, its fine. There are plenty of games that don't offer this model. But this has nothing to do with creativity or gameplay. This has to do with the country, moreso the world, in complete recession. People are trying to make a buck. It's just going to happen. The only people "quitiing" MMORPG's are people who make gaming there life, which is rather unhealthy. Put it this way, if you can't enjoy the game because of the payment scheme, then don't play it. If you feel this is that big of a situation to make you "quit" gaming, then you might want to re-think what gaming means to you and get some help. Games are entertainment, don't forget that. And entertainment cost money.

 Good post OP. Glad to see there are still some people out there that do get it and are not brainwashed.

Originally posted by Cnuck

 Good post OP. Glad to see there are still some people out there that do get it and are not brainwashed.

We must (must) fight back.  We have been pushed-around for a long time.  We have tolerated forced-raiding; we have tolerated forced gameplay; we have tolerated a lack of customization; we have tolerated no world immersion; we have tolerated content that is boring and addicting.

We will not tolerate these payment schemes designed to get more of our money.  Take more of our money without innovating, creating, developing, and implementing immersion features such as those that exist in titles like Grand Theft Auto IV.

Want more money?  MAKE A BETTER GAME!  Better yet, make a game WE want!

Psssst... we got WoW-style gaming;  it is called World of Warcraft.  Heard of it?

Originally posted by declaredemer

Originally posted by Cnuck

 Good post OP. Glad to see there are still some people out there that do get it and are not brainwashed.

 

We need to fight back.  We have been pushed-around for a long time.  We have tolerated forced-raiding; we have tolerated forced gameplay; we have tolerated a lack of customization; we have tolerated no world immersion; we have tolerated content that is boring and addicting.

 

We will not tolerate these payment schemes designed to get more of our money.  Take more of our money without innovating, creating, developing, and implementing immersion features such as those that exist in titles like Grand Theft Auto IV.

 

Want more money?  MAKE A BETTER GAME!  Better yet, make a game WE want!

Psssst... we got WoW-style gaming;  it is called World of Warcraft.  Heard of it?

Well that's the thing, you might not tolerate it, "he" might not tolerate it, but "they" might just tolerate it and want it.

If a game company releases a game with a cash shop of sorts and no one plays then message sent.

But if they do and people play it then they will continue. Which brings me to the person who said we want to earn our items and levels...

do we? I bet there are players who just want to quest and do pvp and look good doing it. It's the experience of the gameplay and not the earning that they are interested in.

It is they who will have no problem with this.

They don't want to make "Hero Zed from the kingdom of Blafesto", they already want to BE "Hero Zed" and then they want to be plugged into a world where they can quest and pvp to their heart's content.

edit: so sure, fight back but you might be the only one.. maybe several hundred thousand? Who knows.

I can already tell you that though I don't want to pay for xp items I have no issues whatsoever paying for cosmetic items.

So already the slippery slope is being slid down. Now get the people who will pay for cosmetic items AND XP potions... etc, etc.

Originally posted by declaredemer

In my gaming infancy, I traversed dangerous swamplands with no compass, no map, and only the clothes on my back with a latern that barely worked.  Dangers lurked in the shadows, and you had to watch where you ran for fear you would be slain by some creature. 

 

 

Today, SOE announced a method whereby players can purchase items, and EA's future Star Wars title will have some microtransactional payment scheme. 

 

 

It is no longer about art.  It is about money.

Lol and you just found this out ?
 

Ever sinds WoW released its only about money, they dont care anymore about you only your cash so games will be below avarage and if you want to buy your way to top you can buy stuff at item malls.

Thats the todays mmo future.

Only one thats still pure and true as mmo should be is Darkfall:)