Originally posted by wjrasmussen

 

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Originally posted by Majestico
Whether by design or not, I just had to wonder why someone would choose to play an MMO mostly solo.

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And yet they do that. So they don't seem to have a problem with it. So if there is a problem, it's yours.

 

Perhaps it would be better if you just minded your own business and let people enjoy games they way that like to enjoy them and for yourself to enjoy what you enjoy.

 

now if only the soloers would take that same advice ... but they wont go to any new MMO forum and ask for group xp bonuses, or raid content and you will have the elite soloers come out of the woodwork flaming you.

Originally posted by FTPMMO

In instanced games you are locked with the people you group with and if you are really unlucky it is like being in a prison with evil madmen.

Yes.   The main reason not to group?  People - many people in MMO's are complete chumps.  I wouldn't want to "group up" with them in realspace, and I certainly don't want to group with them while they're wearing an elf costume.

I solo exclusively with a sub-group of my LOTRO kinship (guild). I solo with a near-silent PUG sometimes just for the convenience.

Originally posted by Abrahmm

People solo in MMORPG's because they complete misunderstand the whole MMO part and think they are entitled to not have to interact with anyone yet still be able to achieve the same things.

I think basically, as companies tried harder and harder to make MMO's "casual friendly", they continuously increased the ability to solo. This allowed the single player gamers to play MMO's without actually haveing to play it like an MMO. Crazy right? Why would you want to pay $15 a month to do what you can do in a single player game for the cost of the box.

No its not crazy at all. People are playing these mmos in the same way as single player games because.......

THATS EXACTLY WHAT THEY ARE!!!

These so-called mmos are nothing more than single player games that have been made available to everyone over the internet and had multiplayer functionality incorporated into them. They are the same as single player games in every way. They have a story which every player must play through. They have static npcs which dish out the same quests. They all have a means of progression in the form of levels. The players unlock more of the story by moving along this progression path etc etc etc.

Everything in these mmos is set up and staged beforehand. All the player has to do is just follow the path which the game dictates for them. In what way are any of these so-called mmos different to a single player game in multiplayer mode?

The players dont misunderstand what an mmo is. Its the developers who have failed to understand how to make one. The players are simply playing the online single player games with optional multiplayer mode that has been provided to them.

Originally posted by Majestico

 

So. strictly for those who I initially mentioned.  The ones always solo, unless they absoloute;y have to group.  Why?  Is it some competitive thing?  'Look I can get to max just by solo'.  What reason can there by that makes sense?

 

Serious answers will be appreciated, as I am genuinely interested.

I prefer solo play over PUG play. Why? I simply do not like dancing to other peoples tunes. I do not like the way most pugs go, i.e wait around for ages while someone afks, or can't find the way. I do not like that sensation of feeling selfish when I have done all I want or need to, or have time to and the person/people I am with wish to continue. I do not like feeling of being tied into doing something ~ even though it's easy to leave and with the anonimity, I still behave like a decent chap.

I like to pick and choose to do quests in my own order. If I want to go afk, as I often have to, I know I am not holding anyone up. If I want to go sell crap I can, no hassel. Basicly I am just happiest solo'ing. Unless........ 

My 2 RL friends are online, they are most days, we've known eachother for years and all live within 2 miles of each other. When we are online we are grouped, even if we aren't doing the same stuff.

However, I do love online persistant worlds. There is something great about the hustle and bustle of other people all doing their own things, sharing the world you are in. I group when I need to, or feel like it.

You asked.

Originally posted by UsedManatee

Originally posted by FTPMMO

In instanced games you are locked with the people you group with and if you are really unlucky it is like being in a prison with evil madmen.

 

Yes.   The main reason not to group?  People - many people in MMO's are complete chumps.  I wouldn't want to "group up" with them in realspace, and I certainly don't want to group with them while they're wearing an elf costume.

I solo exclusively with a sub-group of my LOTRO kinship (guild). I solo with a near-silent PUG sometimes just for the convenience.

Yep that pretty much sums it up actually. People dont group with other people because a lot of the human race are arseholes. Yeah you do meet people that you might personally click with but the majority of them either suck as people or their perception of fun is so different to yours that you are just completely incompatible. Thats the reason many people dont talk in PUGs. Why should they waste their time when it is merely a temporary alliance of convenience?

In most MMOs, soloing is more efficient.  Grouping means less experience and loot, letting the group be slowed down when one player goes AFK, getting screwed when one player does something stupid, and generally putting up with more dumbasses than usual.

The nature of an MMORPG means nobody is ever truly "soloing."  I'm always interacting with other people, even when I'm not using a specific "group" or "team" game mechanic. I just don't want my entire game experience to de determined by four other people chosen more or less at random.

Originally posted by Majestico

Of course, it is your game, and you are entitled to play it any way you choose.

But when I play so  many great single player games, I have to wonder the incentive for the solo gamer.

Serious answers will be appreciated, as I am genuinely interested.

I honestly don't think its always about choosing to play a paticular way.  Yes it can be and is.. but its not an aboslute.

The only single player game I've enjoyed in years has been Fallout 3.. so again point of view varies.  I play a single player game to the end.. its over for me.  Yes I'll admit that I played Fallout 1.. 100's of times.. but that's very rare for me in the MMO age.

Ultima Online didn't have any group mechanic when it launched.  If you didn't play.. what I mean is you couldn't for a group.  So you all hunted in the same area if you wanted.  It also wasn't a level game so I wasn't going to out level anyone if I did solo.

In UO "grouping" was a survival mechanic more than a game mechanic.  Open PvP with full loot and all that.  It was pointless to group with people that were going to get you killed.. and that theme follows into most every MMO including PvE.

Grouping IS easier.. It makes time go by if you are talking.. its social.

Groups wanting to rush from Point A to Point B mean I can't explore "over that hill".  Thus I solo.

I randomly make friends.. when they are on I group.

PUGs pretty much have equated to death.. while death in and of its self no longer has much of a penalty.. I end up wasting hours with a group that is destined to fail when I could have done "something" IF I was solo.

The way MMO communities have become lately I honestly don't want to group with anyone I don't know.  That's the sad truth.. when it was a niche market I grouped more.. now I hardly want to group at all.

Well honestly I don't even want to play MMO's much atm mostly due to the type of people playing.

Oh and I used to run vendoers a LOT even in UO.  So when I spent the majority of my time harvesting and crafting.. its semi hard to group in a positive way and do that other than to chat.

Originally posted by neonwire

Originally posted by Abrahmm

People solo in MMORPG's because they complete misunderstand the whole MMO part and think they are entitled to not have to interact with anyone yet still be able to achieve the same things.

I think basically, as companies tried harder and harder to make MMO's "casual friendly", they continuously increased the ability to solo. This allowed the single player gamers to play MMO's without actually haveing to play it like an MMO. Crazy right? Why would you want to pay $15 a month to do what you can do in a single player game for the cost of the box.

 

No its not crazy at all. People are playing these mmos in the same way as single player games because.......

THATS EXACTLY WHAT THEY ARE!!!

These so-called mmos are nothing more than single player games that have been made available to everyone over the internet and had multiplayer functionality incorporated into them. They are the same as single player games in every way. They have a story which every player must play through. They have static npcs which dish out the same quests. They all have a means of progression in the form of levels. The players unlock more of the story by moving along this progression path etc etc etc.

Everything in these mmos is set up and staged beforehand. All the player has to do is just follow the path which the game dictates for them. In what way are any of these so-called mmos different to a single player game in multiplayer mode?

The players dont misunderstand what an mmo is. Its the developers who have failed to understand how to make one. The players are simply playing the online single player games with optional multiplayer mode that has been provided to them.

Yep, that's how it is.  People solo because the games are made to be solo'd -- they are online SP games with the option to group.

In more modern mmo's exploration isn't really done, you're guided on a path towards exploration, so I will agree with you on that.

The most prevalent answer likely is that whoever is playing thinks they are the BEST player in the game.  Any assistance from anyone else can only slow him or her down.  This statement says volumes.

Originally posted by Kromb

"I don't want to depend on random people to advance and get stuff done, just in case those people are slow and can't get their act together."

There's your answer, people.

When did MMORPG turn into MMORPJ (J=Job)? I must have been absent that day.

 

That pretty much sums it up for me.  I don't watch T.V., I play games to relax.  MMO's are my downtime. After a long day at work or school I don't want to depend on others anymore to get anything done, nor do I want to ruin/restrict someone else's fun by not holding up my end of the group.  I just want to relax but still have some interaction with other people (chatting, auction...)

It's simple, we do it because it's more fun (at the time anyway) than grouping.  Other times are different.

Venge Sunsoar

Why Do People Solo?

Same reason dogs lick their testicles.

Originally posted by Abrahmm

People solo in MMORPG's because they complete misunderstand the whole MMO part and think they are entitled to not have to interact with anyone yet still be able to achieve the same things.

I think basically, as companies tried harder and harder to make MMO's "casual friendly", they continuously increased the ability to solo. This allowed the single player gamers to play MMO's without actually haveing to play it like an MMO. Crazy right? Why would you want to pay $15 a month to do what you can do in a single player game for the cost of the box.

Let me ask you this.  Who do you think you are? 

Honest question here.

Who are you, that is important enough to be able to label what something is, and to tell people theres a right way for a mmo to be played.

Did you invent the genre?  Are you some godly game developer?  Are you god?

What makes grouping non-stop the way to play mmos.  Real life doesn't work like that.  I can build things by myself, I can get into fights by myself, I can drive by myself, I can work by myself(since multiple people questing in a area but all solo is closer to what most jobs are, rather than a group mechanic)

People like playing in a online world, forcing people to group, or being group only, is not required to be a mmo and you are not important and you opinion isn't more valid than anyone else.

Originally posted by neonwire

Originally posted by Abrahmm

People solo in MMORPG's because they complete misunderstand the whole MMO part and think they are entitled to not have to interact with anyone yet still be able to achieve the same things.

I think basically, as companies tried harder and harder to make MMO's "casual friendly", they continuously increased the ability to solo. This allowed the single player gamers to play MMO's without actually haveing to play it like an MMO. Crazy right? Why would you want to pay $15 a month to do what you can do in a single player game for the cost of the box.

 

No its not crazy at all. People are playing these mmos in the same way as single player games because.......

THATS EXACTLY WHAT THEY ARE!!!

These so-called mmos are nothing more than single player games that have been made available to everyone over the internet and had multiplayer functionality incorporated into them. They are the same as single player games in every way. They have a story which every player must play through. They have static npcs which dish out the same quests. They all have a means of progression in the form of levels. The players unlock more of the story by moving along this progression path etc etc etc.

Everything in these mmos is set up and staged beforehand. All the player has to do is just follow the path which the game dictates for them. In what way are any of these so-called mmos different to a single player game in multiplayer mode?

The players dont misunderstand what an mmo is. Its the developers who have failed to understand how to make one. The players are simply playing the online single player games with optional multiplayer mode that has been provided to them.

Refer to my above post.

Who are you to dictate what a mmorpg is? 

Originally posted by neonwire

Originally posted by Abrahmm

People solo in MMORPG's because they complete misunderstand the whole MMO part and think they are entitled to not have to interact with anyone yet still be able to achieve the same things.

I think basically, as companies tried harder and harder to make MMO's "casual friendly", they continuously increased the ability to solo. This allowed the single player gamers to play MMO's without actually haveing to play it like an MMO. Crazy right? Why would you want to pay $15 a month to do what you can do in a single player game for the cost of the box.

 

No its not crazy at all. People are playing these mmos in the same way as single player games because.......

THATS EXACTLY WHAT THEY ARE!!!

These so-called mmos are nothing more than single player games that have been made available to everyone over the internet and had multiplayer functionality incorporated into them. They are the same as single player games in every way. They have a story which every player must play through. They have static npcs which dish out the same quests. They all have a means of progression in the form of levels. The players unlock more of the story by moving along this progression path etc etc etc.

Everything in these mmos is set up and staged beforehand. All the player has to do is just follow the path which the game dictates for them. In what way are any of these so-called mmos different to a single player game in multiplayer mode?

The players dont misunderstand what an mmo is. Its the developers who have failed to understand how to make one. The players are simply playing the online single player games with optional multiplayer mode that has been provided to them.

I definitely agree with you, the developers have failed to understand how to make MMOs, in a plethora of ways. But the whining of the soloers has definitely helped the genre moved in the direction it has. And the developers have sold out what MMO's were to try and appease these players in order to get money from them.

Originally posted by Bladin

Originally posted by Abrahmm

People solo in MMORPG's because they complete misunderstand the whole MMO part and think they are entitled to not have to interact with anyone yet still be able to achieve the same things.

I think basically, as companies tried harder and harder to make MMO's "casual friendly", they continuously increased the ability to solo. This allowed the single player gamers to play MMO's without actually haveing to play it like an MMO. Crazy right? Why would you want to pay $15 a month to do what you can do in a single player game for the cost of the box.

 

Let me ask you this.  Who do you think you are? 

I WAS an MMO player... Now, with the direction of current MMO's, I'm more of a poster that plays, instead of a player that posts(who can name the referece?)

Honest question here.

Who are you, that is important enough to be able to label what something is, and to tell people theres a right way for a mmo to be played.

The name says it all. MASSIVE MULTIPLAYER online role play game, not Massive single player online role play game. Pretty clear isn't it?

Did you invent the genre?  Are you some godly game developer?  Are you god?

No, not yet, and not yet.

What makes grouping non-stop the way to play mmos.  Real life doesn't work like that.  I can build things by myself, I can get into fights by myself, I can drive by myself, I can work by myself(since multiple people questing in a area but all solo is closer to what most jobs are, rather than a group mechanic)

Whoa whoa whoa? Where did I say grouping non-stop is the way to go? I think there should be solo play and group play, but what I'm more concerned about is player interaction. Players should need to rely on each other, for crafted goods, for buffs, for foods, for entertainment. SWG did this quite well, you needed entertainers to heal wounds and give buffs, doctors to heal wounds and give buffs. You needed crafters for all of your gear. Almost everyone was needed by someone else. That is no where near the case anymore. Not only can you solo pretty much the entire game, but you can do so without ever having to talk to anyone else. That is not an MMO, that is a single player game you pay to play online.

 

People like playing in a online world, forcing people to group, or being group only, is not required to be a mmo and you are not important and you opinion isn't more valid than anyone else.

Read above.

Originally posted by Majestico

Yes, this is a leading question. 

I finally got a next-gen console and have been in heaven so far with Mass Effect, Fable II, Lost Odyessy, The Force Unleashed, and to a much lesser extent; Quake 4.

Now as you may be aware from my sig, my main MMO at the moment is Lotro.  Which I have noticed panders more and more towards the solo friendly player.  Now before anyone bombards me with posts about Lotro being a casual friendly game, etxc, I alreadt know this.  It was one of the reasons why I choose it.

However, I have noticed more and more that this 'casual' style of play has been getting morphed more and more into the solo play tag.

Whether by design or not, I just had to wonder why someone would choose to play an MMO mostly solo.

And please bear in mind that hear is where the question is aimed.  To those people who blindly ignore any other player, unless of course a quest is required.  Oh, you need a party to finish off an epic story, then I'll grab a PUG, say very little. if anything, and then bugger off when the quest is done.

Now, please do not answer with posts such as: 'well sometimes I like exploring and doing things on my own' that is very well, and I do it myself, or posts like 'well sometimes I only have an hour to play,'.  Or the classic; 'I like to play in a MMO by myself, and like the idea that the other people are real!' - shy people in an environment that is geared towards you throwing off any social inhibidtions and allowing you to be anyone you want!

So. strictly for those who I initially mentioned.  The ones always solo, unless they absoloute;y have to group.  Why?  Is it some competitive thing?  'Look I can get to max just by solo'.  What reason can there by that makes sense?

Of course, it is your game, and you are entitled to play it any way you choose.

But when I play so  many great single player games, I have to wonder the incentive for the solo gamer.

Serious answers will be appreciated, as I am genuinely interested.

while I play with groups and go on guild events, I run and have run large guilds in a couple of games now,  I mostly solo so I am avalible to help lower level/skilled players in the guild when they need it, or handle problems that pop up in guild or with other guilds.  I do not want to have to tell a group I am with that, "Hey we need to stop, I have to handle something" and then me spending the next 15 mins calming someone down and working out a solution.

they either don't have any choice because game mechanics favor soloing, or they don't know any better.

I tend to solo when the logistical costs of forming a group are high. Long travel times. Lack of support for groups of arbitrary size (solo is supported, full group is supported, but anything in between faces either cakewalk or impossible content). Strong requirements for "balanced" parties. Quest chains that put people out of sync. Etc.

Another issue is probability someone will be interested in grouping. If I get rejected over and over when trying to form groups, I'll give up eventually. So some games I notice the culture is anti-group, so I don't bother trying to organize groups.

I group more often when either a) someone else steps up and does the organizing for me or b) the game makes it really, really easy to group or has spontaneous grouping mechanics (toontown, wizard 101). One of the things that drives me insane is when I get a group offer, and then my partner says something like "I got to go afk, you fill out the rest of the group."

I mostly solo because I am a tough vigilante hero. I will often help people in need (Lfg'ers)Once I am no longer needed (quest complete) I move on back to soloing fighting the good fight. Every now and then I will encounter an Lfg'er that I actually like. When such a rare person is encountered, I group with that person as often as humanly possible. over time I amass a small number of such people. So to answer your question, I solo because in game, much like in life, I only want to be with people I like, unfortunately such people are few and far between. But, much like life,those few people in game make it worth spending all that time soloing around until they are on or until good fortune introduces me to a new person I like.

People solo in MMO's because they don't want their enjoyment to be dependant upon others. It's not fun standing around waiting for the rest of a group to form.

Group play is fun and a solo centric gamer will group when it is fun, however, they'll solo a lot of the time as is quicker and easier to gain enjoyment than waiting for others.