I was wondering if anyone knew. Please don't tell me make a variation of go there and kill x and y, because that IS boring.

My idea was to make puzzles out of quests and that sort of thing, but help websites could ruin the fun. Anyone have ideas? Discuss!

To be perfectly honest tasks really aren't all that bad.  If you want to take on a few tasks that would be courier like you'll eventually be lead to someone/sent near someone who would give a real quest,  if you take on pest control tasks you'll be sent to/near areas/people who have those types of tasks.

The only downside about Internet story is that every 15 mins or so you can only shove 100-500 words towards people before you have to do something else.

There's lots of other ways to start a quest instead of just talking to someone

Break a cultural feature(IE approach the opposite sex, have potions on your person, use magic, or similar) and have to go through getting out or something similar.

You get a hold of some nifty lore in form of a person/book/mural and be able to find the place or rather how to get in because of the whole Internet spoiler thing.

To get into an area you have to look like something else or litterally be something else.

Just run into something strange (naked nords in Morrowind will be a classic)  and decide what to do about it.

Since you have soo much control over the world you can do lots of smart-assedry things like make cave mushrooms blink a message in morse-code.

I think quest would always entail the process of going to this site and killing monster x and y. In my opinion the boring thing about that is when it becomes pointless and seem to be too repetitive. Quest can improve by using strategies for quest by providing 30sec cut scene to make the quest more interesting to play. Another suggestion is to make quest untypical by requiring more than one person to perform the tasks such as guild quests.

I think it is entirely possible to have a quest that does not hinge on killing a monster/monsters.  In fact, I happen to have an example in mind.

The Prince of Persia: The Sands of Time was a great platforming game from last generation, introducing a great many players not only to the concept of rewinding time, but also a sort of acrobatic travel that few games up to that time had allowed.  However, what struck me was that the game, for the most part, lacked the endless stream of battles that many other games featured.  Instead, the level itself became your enemy.  Spikes that shot up from pressure-sensitive plates, spinning buzzsaws that buzzed out from walls, whirling blades, and of course the odd missed leap, could all kill off the player.

I bring this up because such a thing could easily be implemented into dungeons in MMORPGs.  Rather then a dungeon simply being a slog through room after room of enemies that need to be killed, ending with a boss that needs to be killed, I propose a dungeon that features no enemies whatsoever.  The player (or players) would instead be given a mission such as "retrieve the Sacred Chalice of Sterling Mortlock", and shown the way to a dungeon.  Once there, they would be faced with an instanced dungeon packed to the brim with deathtraps ranging from swinging spiked logs, to quicksand traps, to spike pits, to anything else that could potentially be fit into a dungeon of the sort.  You can also toss in a number of puzzle rooms if you feel the need, lever puzzles, box puzzles, rooms that look like puzzles but just require the player to walk right up to the door and give it a good solid whack, or whatever else your heart desires.  At the end, the player would find the item they seek, at which point they would be forced to turn around and escape the dungeon through the very same route that they've just conquered.

...though I suppose you could be nice and give them a Quick Escape option after they've gotten hold of the prize...

Problem is that most MMOs have no collision detection or physics systems of any kind.  They make the game board world map and instanced modules and slap spawned mobs in them that simply compare stats and probabilities for damage dealt and received.  Boring.  I agree we need traps and puzzles to navigate, but to have interesting things like this, you really need to work from the ground up in the variety of ways to interact with the physical world.

Alternately in a player driven game every interaction is a potential 'quest' or 'task' and there would be no shortage of such.  I'm not talking about player created quests, but missions that are given out by players naturally to other players in order to accomplish goals they are working towards in the game.  Even if it ends up being a monster extermination quest, it is because someone needs those monsters destroyed because they are destroying their town or blocking their trade route and when they are dealt with, that actually changes something in the world.

In such a world players could use their skills and resources to build traps and dungeons to protect their items and interests and other players could try to overcome these obstacles in an endless cycle of defensive and offensive progress.

Originally posted by drag9999

I was wondering if anyone knew. Please don't tell me make a variation of go there and kill x and y, because that IS boring.

 

My idea was to make puzzles out of quests and that sort of thing, but help websites could ruin the fun. Anyone have ideas? Discuss!

1.  Meaningful reward.

2.  Difficult, therefore achievement is rare.

3.  Dangerous.

A good example might be the "Burning Rapier" rogue quest in ol' EQ.  Several components were required to make it, one of which was at the bottom of a high level dungeon, might higher level than the average person pursuing this quest.

Originally posted by drag9999

I was wondering if anyone knew. Please don't tell me make a variation of go there and kill x and y, because that IS boring.

 

My idea was to make puzzles out of quests and that sort of thing, but help websites could ruin the fun. Anyone have ideas? Discuss!

In reality, if you are talking about using the present method of "questing", then it is boring, but let's think of it this way...

If you separate the true "quest" (the jouney toward a goal), and these mundane "quest" (or rather, missions/tasks), then you can build a system where both type of tasks are utilized to its fullest.

You can make it so that the tasks/missions are the things you do to "level up" while quests are the ways to "unlock" the backstories or to in some ways tell the story of the part of the world, and etc...  Then this would free the quests up into not just fetch X, go to Y, kill Z type of tasks, but there can be more, and with mechanics made to support it.  And these quests will be somewhat unique (in my mind, I tend to think that the missions/tasks are the normal leveling mechanics while the unique quests are the story-telling part where the end result will set a part of the world in certain state which will unlock more unique quests (such as one unique quest of political assassination of NPC rulers will turn the city into chaos for X amount of time, and 3 unique quests pop up in near major cities to 1.) restore order, 2.) take over the city, or 3.) keep the chaos state.

And you get fame(good and bad) for doing/unlocking these quests, and you can get interesting titles...

I agree with the lot above... Questing in most MMO's today is pretty pathetic. With the above reply about acrobatics being implemented into an MMO seems rather intresting, adding a current skill to the game more or less. I always liked the class specific quest more then normal quest. there usually more in depths and require a bit more of thought.

Back in the old days of RS, when i played as a kid i always did find the quest rather good, pretty much why i played it. it wasnt just go her and kill this many things well collecting this but it only drops % of the time. I think the problem is the the DEVS are thinking that every going to be taking back be the sure will of eye candy that there not goning to care what there doing. That works, maybe for  maybe an hour or less. But i think we need someone to raise the bar on MMO. Well there maybe a big majority of quest grindfest in most MMO's but there are some that really stand out. If people could just take what they do for a good single player RPG, say Fable 1/2 or  Kotor 1 or 2. Go around  from area to area try to figure how to best go about your goal. I guess im saying that quest shouldnt be as broad, no limit. Say a current quest called for you to retrive Item Y but guard X is in the way. The quest calls for retriving of that specific item. So you could just kill him, brute force. But there should be other ways to do it. Say distracting guard X and steal item Y and get away before her notices its gone.

Thats a example. Maybe not the best but what im overall trying to say its MMO's need choice, shouldnt be black and white there should be ways for plays to do it there own unique way. Its just like there worlds in danger again for the 7th time today....

-A good quest first amkes you ask, Why does this person need help, then it should be am i really going to help them, whats in it for me or, im feeling nice today whats your problem?

-Then it should take you in, it should make you feel that you really have to do this quest the rewards are worth it or, this person really needs help.

-Then when you actually start it, you should feel as sense of changelle, are you really powerful to do this quest, can you actually do what this person has asked of you?

-Once you get done what you need to get done you should fill a little greedy or have a sense of goodness/badness for what you have done.

-And when you return to the person you have got the quest from and he rewards you with w.e you should feel a good sense of accomplishment.

That what i think is how the basics of a quest should run when your creating a very basic quest.

Another thing to the above replies - I do think the there should be more to a game then just moving point and click or holding the "W" or "UP" forever and a day. (come to think of it maybe thats why there so worn off)

I think that there should not only be acrobatics but maybe combos hitting the right keys and the right time or right squenece (Like the witcher or maybe MK series).

There is alot of ideas for games out there not everything has to be a wow clone or what have you.

There still some revolutionary ideas out there, someone just needs to take a chance and throw it out there and with any luck it will hit big.

In my design what I am thinking of to make questing more fun is to make it more open, add choice to make it more player driven and make the completion of quests effect the game world.

I really like Public Quests, so I figured I would make it the main form of questing.  This way players could quest solo or in a group and they do not have to worry about being on the correct step of the quest and such to participate.

Public quests could branch off too so collectively people could make choices to effect the direction of the quest. 

Public quests need to be focused on the big picture, completing them needs to offer some form of benefit toward your side.

Like PvP PQs that let people focus on territory control, eliminating enemy players then branching off to attack and capture different structures to gain control of an area, giving their side access to the reasources of that area.  The other side could have quests to work against your side too, and the quest objectives could change depending on who gains the upper hand.  By the players' choices they could direct NPC troops around, making PvP PQs like a collective RTS game.

Crafting PQs that require players to make and gather certain things, sounds dull but keep in mind all the weapons and supplies you make go to outfit NPC troops used for PvP.

PvE PQs to eliminate creatures and such to access reasource nodes and temporarily open travel paths.

And players could have PQs to build fortifications on their bases to control territory easier.

Then have regular quests, not used as a major source of advancement but they could help players get more involved in the lore and personality of the world.  These could have choices to make too and they could be highly trigger centric meaning it isn't just go kill such and such, things spawn for your character so you can do them and so people can't kill your mobs and such.  They would also have dialog and hopefully voice acting.  I figure there would only be a handful of these like 30 or so.

And then have more random quests that just happen or happen in response to player actions like a bandit attack or a bounty on the players with high kill counts.

Ill make this reply quick and simple... Game devs need focus less on the game aspects and eye candy and give the player something to do then go kill these guys and get this. I would rather play a game that looks like crap and gives me something worth while to do... the a game that looks like candyland and im bored stiff.

Originally posted by Ice799

Ill make this reply quick and simple... Game devs need focus less on the game aspects and eye candy and give the player something to do then go kill these guys and get this. I would rather play a game that looks like crap and gives me something worth while to do... the a game that looks like candyland and im bored stiff.

I agree. This is why I play games like Hearts of Iron 2, Europa Universalis 3, and Dominions. Even though these game is not impressive in regards to their graphics but the gameplay and the uniqueness of the game is something to play about for months on end.  I also agree that game developers should try to focus less on graphics but rather on the game play itself.

Originally posted by ironore

Problem is that most MMOs have no collision detection or physics systems of any kind.  They make the game board world map and instanced modules and slap spawned mobs in them that simply compare stats and probabilities for damage dealt and received.  Boring.  I agree we need traps and puzzles to navigate, but to have interesting things like this, you really need to work from the ground up in the variety of ways to interact with the physical world.

Well actually I think most (or at least most 3D) of them do have some collision detection and a physics engine. They have to in order to allow characters to walk on worlds, bump into rocks trees etc. They also have a bit of physics for falling and the like. I think maybe what you mean is enough physics and collision to do realistic combat. Besides the CPU requirements and the fact that such a game game would require more skilled players, this has a few other issues involving synchronization across client and network machines. I was trying to think of some good solution to this but it's definitely a hard problem to solve.

Originally posted by polypterus

Originally posted by ironore

Problem is that most MMOs have no collision detection or physics systems of any kind.  They make the game board world map and instanced modules and slap spawned mobs in them that simply compare stats and probabilities for damage dealt and received.  Boring.  I agree we need traps and puzzles to navigate, but to have interesting things like this, you really need to work from the ground up in the variety of ways to interact with the physical world.

Well actually I think most (or at least most 3D) of them do have some collision detection and a physics engine. They have to in order to allow characters to walk on worlds, bump into rocks trees etc. They also have a bit of physics for falling and the like. I think maybe what you mean is enough physics and collision to do realistic combat. Besides the CPU requirements and the fact that such a game game would require more skilled players, this has a few other issues involving synchronization across client and network machines. I was trying to think of some good solution to this but it's definitely a hard problem to solve.

 My solution to this would probably allow some hacking of sort, but it's the simplest out there. Make the collision work only on the player's computer and have it periodically send information on their movements to the server.

In my view, the reason quests are boring is the lack of challenge. If you add in a challenging factor such as the dungeons themselves (as a few of you mentioned) AND have them fight mobs while being careful of traps, that would make an excellent MMORPG.

I have seen this in DDO, where you need a scout and such to detect and disarm the traps.

Picture this scene: you enter a dungeon rumored to be one of the hardest out there in the present game. This dungeon is randomly generated, it always includes certain traps, but places where there are corners and traps change. You have to walk slowly and be quite aware of traps, otherwise they will hit you (which could be something extremely bad, such as summoning a few monsters and dropping your HP by some). Now add in a goal to grab something hidden in this dungeon, with all the danger lingering around.

THAT is what would make me play a game.

I guess it all comes down to WHERE and WHAT the quests are, not so much the reward (for me at least).

I could see something along the lines of baldur's gate, or fallout 3 interaction being sucessful in MMO questing.

Alternate ways of completing quests, or even interacting with "quest givers" with chat options based on character attributes and alignment, and each different solution to the quest can shape your alignment.

Also, I agree with one of the previous posters who mentioned player driven quests. I'm a firm believer in giving characters the freedom to do such things in a game, if it's created right.

My MMO(FPS)RPG is heavily influenced by FPS games to include game mechanics, editors, etc. With that said, I'm taking a modular approach to Quest Building by interconnecting a series of FPS Maps with Objectives. Objectives are Game Play Modes commonly found in FPS Games such as Carry The Flag (CTF), DeathMatch, Stealth, Protect, Race, and many others in which players must complete individually or in Teams. Although, more complex in detail, an Objective could be comparable to a Task commonly found in todays MMOs.

Quest Builders select and modify the content for maps/objectives they choose. For example, in CTF the objective is for players to capture a `Flag` from the opponents base and bring back to their own to score a point. If the player carrying the flag is critically hit, they drop the flag leaving it open for retrieval by team players or opponents. Now imagine swapping out the `Flag` for another type of object or NPC. Imagine the opponent being Mobs or Enemy Guild Players.

Quest Builders can provide continuity between maps by using comparable assets (textures, music) and content (buildings, structures, props). Quest Builders can also include Dialog for Story Creation. Each Objective can be modified allowing the Quest Builder to set Point Locations, Objects, Timer, Reward|Penality. Each Map can be modified allowing the Quest Builder to add/edit Spawners, Triggers, Platforms, Doors, Push/Pull Props, Warps and Dialog Menus to create complex Traps and Puzzles.