Gosh. What a lot of replies. I certainly didn't bother to read any of the 300++ replies that preceded mine.

To anyone who actually bothers reading this post, I have three words: BEWARE, BUT HOPE.

I have followed Darkfall's development for a long time. In that time I've seen Aventurine make a lot of outrageous claims: the game has been stable and feature complete for over a year; the game has more content than WoW; naval combat is better than Pirates of the Burning Seas; mounted combat is similar to Mount & Blade; the AI is so good the game debugs itself, etc. The game promises so much, but how can it deliver? Do the developers seriously believe that a short, closed beta is all that is needed to prepare the game for prime time?

Unless you wish to lose some cash, fast, don't buy this game right off. Wait for the reviews. Wait for a lot of reviews. If the game gets good reviews, I'll be the first person to push you out of line so I can buy a copy. But until then, I'll just shake my head at the fools that rush out to buy this game.

PS there was an error in the news article. Darkfall development started in 2001, not 2003. Indeed, the first initial release date was 2003.

What's funny is people keep saying that Tasos' attitude does not matter once the game is released.  This couldn't be further from the truth.

Think about it.  Game is released.  It's horrible.  (Think DnL horrible) people start leaving in droves and everyone posts that the game needs major fixes.  It's not fun, there's major issues with the gameplay, etc.  And how does Tasos respond?

"Shut up trolls, our game is the best ever!"

6 months later Darkfall closes it's doors and we continue to get the watered down linear games that we've been getting for years.

Do you understand my point?  I WANT Darkfall to succeed.  I'm not even sure if I'll be playing it, but I WANT it to do better than any other game out there.  Do you know why?  So we can get some freaking real MMO games back into this genre!

Tasos' holier than thou attitude is not conductive to changing a failing product based on legitimate criticism.  This is what worries me.

Originally posted by Kien

Gosh. What a lot of replies. I certainly didn't bother to read any of the 300++ replies that preceded mine.

To anyone who actually bothers reading this post, I have three words: BEWARE, BUT HOPE.

I have followed Darkfall's development for a long time. In that time I've seen Aventurine make a lot of outrageous claims: the game has been stable and feature complete for over a year; the game has more content than WoW; naval combat is better than Pirates of the Burning Seas; mounted combat is similar to Mount & Blade; the AI is so good the game debugs itself, etc. The game promises so much, but how can it deliver? Do the developers seriously believe that a short, closed beta is all hat is needed to prepare the game for prime time?

Unless you wish to lose some cash, fast, don't buy this game right off. Wait for the reviews. Wait for a lot of reviews. If the game gets good reviews, I'll be the first person to push you out of line so I can buy a copy. But until then, I'll just shake my head at the fools that rush out to buy this game.

 

PS there was an error in the news article. Darkfall development started in 2001, not 2003. Indeed, the first initial release date was 2003.

No error in the news article.

Just confirmation of what we have been trying to explain to people for awhile now about the development of the game that will be played on January 22nd, 2009.

People can make an arguement for 2001 all they want but the fact is that the current game they are working on started in 2003...5 years of development...

Ill take the word of a developer over forum randos anyday.

And yes this thread was amazingly long and has been kind of forgotten with the release date being announced today.

Originally posted by imbant

Originally posted by Kien

I have followed Darkfall's development for a long time. In that time I've seen Aventurine make a lot of outrageous claims: the game has been stable and feature complete for over a year; the game has more content than WoW; naval combat is better than Pirates of the Burning Seas; mounted combat is similar to Mount & Blade; the AI is so good the game debugs itself, etc. The game promises so much, but how can it deliver? Do the developers seriously believe that a short, closed beta is all hat is needed to prepare the game for prime time?

Unless you wish to lose some cash, fast, don't buy this game right off. Wait for the reviews. Wait for a lot of reviews. If the game gets good reviews, I'll be the first person to push you out of line so I can buy a copy. But until then, I'll just shake my head at the fools that rush out to buy this game.

Excellent post and good advice.    It has been those outrageous claims made by the develoeprs (and perpetuated by the followers) that is one of the main reasons for the negative reactions of much of the MMORPG community.

How many times have we seen games that promised the sky but utterly failed to keep those promises (Vangaurd, Tabula Rasa, Dark and Light - the list goes on) ?  And instead of learning from that, there are still those who accept every outlandish claim from a developer who has *never* produced a single game. 

Maybe Darkfall *will* deliver on their promises, but that praise should be saved until AFTER they prove themselves.  Praising Aventurine (or even accepting their claims as anything close to fact) is premature and only keep convincing developers they can shovel anything they want out to the community and there will those that just swallow it

PS there was an error in the news article. Darkfall development started in 2001, not 2003. Indeed, the first initial release date was 2003.

No error in the news article.

Just confirmation of what we have been trying to explain to people for awhile now about the development of the game that will be played on January 22nd, 2009.

People can make an arguement for 2001 all they want but the fact is that the current game they are working on started in 2003...5 years of development...

Ill take the word of a developer over forum randos anyday.

Not an error perhaps, but certainly they're playing semantic games.   It might not be the same game, but Darkfall was been in the public eye since 2001 and that's where most people start their clocks.  But semantic games are nothing new unfortunately, esp. because the community lets developers play them instead of calling to the facts.     And if you don't trust a forum rando how about some proof.    

 http://rpgvaultarchive.ign.com/features/interviews/darkfall.shtml

Good to hear about the release date, it's like the ending to an epic tale is about to come to a conclusion -one way or another. 

---

Originally posted by Dameonk
Do you understand my point?  I WANT Darkfall to succeed.  I'm not even sure if I'll be playing it, but I WANT it to do better than any other game out there.  Do you know why?  So we can get some freaking real MMO games back into this genre!

---

Well, the Release date news is great, January 22nd is the day.

As far as the Interview is concerned I enjoyed it, some very pointy questions there, and honestly some of Tasos replies actually made me smile.

Is he being defensive, yes I would agree with that, then on the other hand if I try to put myself in his place I would most probably be replying the same.

Believe it or not there is tremendous pressure from the industry, and Tasos, I consider him a Maverick rather than a Brad McQuaid "holyer than thou" attitude.

Will it last will it perpetuate, only Tasos knows, yet, for a Company that does things differently, and that has had to realise a grand vision with limited resources (aka money), seeming somewhat aggressive is also a good thing, as I said, a Maverick.

I only have one worry about this game, it is the FPS approach to combat, but other than that, I played UO for 5 years, longer than any of the MMOG's that followed it till today and I played a fair share till today with my friends and guild from UO, 11 years we have been together, and UO takes the credit for these lasting friendships, I can only wish that Darkfall will do the same, and if it does, then in my eyes it would have succeeded.

We are witnessing a renaissance, of the MMORPW (Massivelly Multiplayer Role Playing World), because that is what DF aims to be, a Living breathing World (wither it will appeal to many or few is not important), what is important is that the many of today will get the opportunity to know once more what it is supposed to be about.

I wish all to find lasting Fun with a purpose once more, a purpose that transcends paying a ticket and embarking on to a ride part of a themepark. Darkfall is a playground, meant for immaginative and creative fun, as it should be!

Cheers!

Originally posted by Soundbyte

Originally posted by atziluth

So your saying you trust a guy like this.

 ...

That sounds about right for the past 4 - 5 years. Like I said before... Tasos = Smedley

 

it's amusing that you spent the time to type all that out but forgot to include the facts:

1) numerous people outside of Aventurine have played the game, and are playing it right now.

2) there is abundant information, screenshots and videos of the game in the public domain

L2google.

Learn to comprehend.

My point was that Tasos has been horrible for DF. He has come off as a con-artist (even though the game is real), which brings up more negative questions then there should be. His ATTITUDE of secrecy and self absorbed megalomania has cause much of the backlash in these types of forums.

He said that the game was feature complete and ready to play almost 2 years ago. He has repeated that sentiment several times since then and wonders why people question the validity oh his words when they have failed to let people play (up to a few weeks ago). Is there any wonder why so many people are skeptical?

What Tasos completely misses in the interview is that while many games are in development for 5+ years... typically they do not anounce anything concrete until a couple of years before release. 5+ years in the public spotlight with talking points about how revolutionary the game play will be can cause a backlash of doubt.

I WANT DF to succeed, but there should be no delusions about Tasos. He is no gamer god... He is not even experienced at his job. Would you let a medical student that just got his diploma do brain surgery on you?

Originally posted by atziluth

Originally posted by Soundbyte

Originally posted by atziluth

So your saying you trust a guy like this.

 ...

That sounds about right for the past 4 - 5 years. Like I said before... Tasos = Smedley

 

it's amusing that you spent the time to type all that out but forgot to include the facts:

1) numerous people outside of Aventurine have played the game, and are playing it right now.

2) there is abundant information, screenshots and videos of the game in the public domain

L2google.

 

Learn to comprehend.

My point was that Tasos has been horrible for DF. He has come off as a con-artist (even though the game is real), which brings up more negative questions then there should be. His ATTITUDE of secrecy and self absorbed megalomania has cause much of the backlash in these types of forums.

He said that the game was feature complete and ready to play almost 2 years ago. He has repeated that sentiment several times since then and wonders why people question the validity oh his words when they have failed to let people play (up to a few weeks ago). Is there any wonder why so many people are skeptical?

What Tasos completely misses in the interview is that while many games are in development for 5+ years... typically they do not anounce anything concrete until a couple of years before release. 5+ years in the public spotlight with talking points about how revolutionary the game play will be can cause a backlash of doubt.

I WANT DF to succeed, but there should be no delusions about Tasos. He is no gamer god... He is not even experienced at his job. Would you let a medical student that just got his diploma do brain surgery on you?

I would like to see Tasos' credentials, where he went to school what his GPA was etc etc. We already know this is his first at bat at this type of job, Id like to see where hes been in the past, and find out how exactly he even landed this job with no experience.
 

Release date now 2009. Until you have a game ready, pls shut your piehole Darkfall.

Your lies are getting mildly annoying.

all I read what waaa waaa our commuity is the shizzle and everyong else can suck it...lol If I see a release date next week I MIGHT just start beliveing this game is more than thin air.

Originally posted by Arcken

I would like to see Tasos' credentials, where he went to school what his GPA was etc etc. We already know this is his first at bat at this type of job, Id like to see where hes been in the past, and find out how exactly he even landed this job with no experience.
 

This is what his profile says on LinkedIn.

* Harvard University Extension School
* WSU

Harvard would be impressive except the Extension school are online courses...

WSU is ofcourse Washington State University.

What he studied I am not sure... most likely a business degree.

So the game is ready to launch but it hasn't, he wont disclose the number of beta testers. Tasos also asked what game development time people are comparing Darkfall to, and the answer is ANY GAME TOOK LESS TIME TO DEVELOP THAN DARKFALL. And saying that Darkfall has generated some buzz but yet has no real marketing strategy (or any fucking money to market) is not an oxymoron, it's a fact. Tasos need to stop trying to work his way around the questions , and ANSWER THEM!

Originally posted by deathtripp

So the game is ready to launch but it hasn't, he wont disclose the number of beta testers. Tasos also asked what game development time people are comparing Darkfall to, and the answer is ANY GAME TOOK LESS TIME TO DEVELOP THAN DARKFALL. And saying that Darkfall has generated some buzz but yet has no real marketing strategy (or any fucking money to market) is not an oxymoron, it's a fact. Tasos need to stop trying to work his way around the questions , and ANSWER THEM!

Firstly, just because a game is ready to launch doesn't mean they can just go 'k gaiz tomarow is launch date lolz'.  They need to setup servers with a third party, manufacturing of discs with a third party, etc.

Word of mouth IS their marketing strategy at this point, they know it and they've said it.  People like you who are so passionate about making sure everyone hears about their skepticism only fuels the fire.  So... thanks i guess

Originally posted by doobster

Firstly, just because a game is ready to launch doesn't mean they can just go 'k gaiz tomarow is launch date lolz'.  They need to setup servers with a third party, manufacturing of discs with a third party, etc.

Word of mouth IS their marketing strategy at this point, they know it and they've said it.  People like you who are so passionate about making sure everyone hears about their skepticism only fuels the fire.  So... thanks i guess

You are partially correct. Servers do have to be installed and tested, but once a company is designated, the actual work to get a functioning server is pretty fast. Considering the reputation of the company they chose, I would say a couple of production servers could be completed within 2 weeks and that is with testing.

You are wrong on one point however. Since every fanboi and his mother claim DF will be free to try before purchase they will have to go with a digital distribution. No need for a 3rd party company to create disks except maybe for "collector editions".

Over all if the game was production ready as Tasos claims, they must have already tested it out on a production server (stress tests), which means there is no reason to delay release. Every day they delay is revenue lost. No company would willingly shelf a functioning product for even a month if they were as confident as Tasos projects.

The game has not been extensively tested and definitely not stressed the way it should. Hopefully that will change between now and release.

 --

Darkfall could launch today. It's more ready for launch than most, if not all of the MMORPG titles at the same stage that I've personally sampled and it has been for quite some time.

--

So uh, great respose. "that I've personally sampled"..very subjective.

The guy is too defensive to me.

--

We're not going to depend on playtesters for everything...the game is already tested.

--

I wish the best of luck to the DF team, BUT I will laugh so damn hard when it's released and totally bugs start to appear.

Sounds to me he'd give his life for his game, which makes him a bad salesman unless he has a PERFECT product. And I've come to realize there's never such thing.

Let's see how this plays out. :) 

This guys answers are very condescending. This guy is acting like a douche isn't he?

the feeling is just because you arent used to dealing with eurotrash. he acts like every other euro-pion out there. really the #1 export of the uk is snarky attitudes.

Originally posted by tastethegold

the feeling is just because you arent used to dealing with eurotrash. he acts like every other euro-pion out there. really the #1 export of the uk is snarky attitudes.

I don't know if his nationality has anything to do with it. But I do agree that he has a very bad attitude. And that will give a bad first impression to some which is never a good thing.

Well I am the of the same nationality with Tasos (both Greek) and I have to say that he is a douche. That's by no means the attitude greeks have... he is too full of himself.

About the euro trash comment, QQ more :P

Look guys, I am greek, I would love to see a greek company like adventurine succeed, but there are promising too much, have limited resources and limited experience. We dont even have a solid software industry in greece, since all software is essentially imported. They post no pics and no vids.I can't see how they can pull it off. My opinion is that DF will dissapoint a lot of people here and will mark the end of sandbox mmos.

But hey I could be wrong.

Originally posted by Amanautor

Well I am the of the same nationality with Tasos (both Greek) and I have to say that he is a douche.

hehe

omg Darkfall provides like half of this site's entertainment value. I can't wait till it gets released lol.

Originally posted by tastethegold

the feeling is just because you arent used to dealing with eurotrash. he acts like every other euro-pion out there. really the #1 export of the uk is snarky attitudes.

I'm European and a lot fo Europeans are very modest people. This person does in no way represent Greeks, nor does he represent Europeans.

I would take offense if you thought otherwise because there are many awesome people here, just like there are in the US.

Originally posted by Borluc

It sounds like honesty.  I don't know how people can say he is being an ego maniac or too defensive when he is faced with questions like "so, people have called your game vaporware, how do you respond?".  Give me a break.  In fact, that is a very disrespectful question to ask if you want to conduct a serious interview.  The interview was hostile and asked very little about the game itself.   Despite that, Tasos was able to respond logically.  Don't know about most people, but I'd prefer that larger companies would also adopt the Darkfall method of monetary allotment.  Most of them spend too damn much on advertisement and damn near all of it turns out to be bull.

You want real vaporware?  Check out Warhammer online.  Age of Conan.  They promised many things and delivered someone completely different.  In light of that, I simply do not understand the criticisms many people are throwing out there atm. 

 

 

Vaporware is a somewhat derogatory term used to describe a software or hardware product that is announced by a developer well in advance of release, but which then fails to emerge after having well exceeded the period of development time that was initially claimed or would normally be expected for the development cycle of a similar product.

how exactly are war and aoc vaporware?  it would apply to a game that has been in development for a much longer period than other games.

Originally posted by doobster

"Some people doubt it's possible, others worry that it is."

 

You vaportrolls are really being faithful to the classic meaning of 'troll.'  You just won't die!!

Waaaaah, they don't update.

Waaaah, they updated but the guy didn't sound friendly.

Waaaah.

i don't believe vapor, trolls or the combination of "vaportroll" means what you think they mean.

Originally posted by Pyrostasis

Just wanted to throw my 2 cents in.

Is there a lot of hate towards DF? Yes.

Could Tasos's rather blatant arogance in the thread be due to the hate? Sure, probably is.

Then my question would be, Why has Adventurine, and Tasos cultured and fueled this hate?

Every thing they release is vague, extremely vague. They dodge questions that arent about gameplay, or NDA game features, but about development cycles. They dont do any main stream media previews, and when they finally hit a mainstream outlet, they come off as curt and rude.

Sure MMORPG.com asked some tough questions... but... its nothing that most of us that are labeled as "Haters" by the fanbois have been screaming about for years.

Most of us that are skeptical about DF, have been following the game since we played UO and AC1. We were at one point in time rather hopeful about the game (at least I know I was)... but you can only fake start beta so many times, pretend to be close to launch so many times. Eventually you get to the point that you want to see some hard evidence before you get your hopes up again.

Adventurine could turn around the DF negativity TOMORROW, by letting IGN, MMORPG, Gamespy, and a few others into beta, and giving them freedom to post what they think. Information would flood out, skeptics would have their doubts either shattered or confirmed, and DF would get some much needed publicity.

Adventurine however has chosen to treat DF like the roswel incident. We know somethings going on in that dessert, but we dont know if its aliens or a weather ballon.

IF darkfall is as close to release as Tasos claims, then there is no reason to NOT get the media behind them. Its free advertising.

However, assuming everything is as good as Tasos says (which we have no third party to verify that) the only thing that disturbs me is beta. Several hundred people is less than 1000. Most MMO servers now have 2000 - 10000 people on one server. With so few people there, they have no way of stress testing the servers or their network. Even if Darkfall is as badass as we are being led to believe, we are being setup for experiencing server side lag and conectivity issues that havent been seen since the first week of Ultima Online launch back in August of 1997.

this.

too bad all the so-called fanbois crying/whining "vaportroll" don't remember playing games like uo back in 97/98.  then they might understand what the quoted means.

just out of curiousity... in the interview... did the guy ever go "hey, i want to talk about these cool features we have" or try to promote anything about the game itself?