Originally posted by Frostbite05

id have to go with WoW Lotr still doesnt match up though its makes a close second. Only people that say otherwise are just haters or simply don't like wow

Your wrong there buddy.

To myself, Moria is the only expansion up there worth money at all (I know EVE is free). WotLK introduced one new class (which you had to 55 to play anyways) and one small (compared to others) landmass (that you also had to be a high level to play). I never really heard anything big about the two EQ expansions. And I'm sure the EVE one didn't double the playable space and add a bunch of items and what not.
 
Mines of Moria doubled LOTROs playspace with Eregion, Lorethias and Moria, introduced two completely new classes from the start. Both classes with very unique playstyles. New items for all levels of the classes. And the legendary item system. Not only is the quantity huge, but the quality of the expansion in bar none.
 
Wraith of the Lich King compares to LOTRO's free updates, even with the addition of Northrend (which is really just an arctic wasteland, I wouldn't think it that interesting).
 
Game companies need to learn what an expansion really is. WotLK is NOT an expansion, it's a scam. MoM IS an expansion. An expansion pack should significantly add more to the game. One small landmass and a class that only high level players can use if not significant. Three areas, which combined double the playable area of LOTRO, and two new classes (with all items) and a new item system, legendary weapons, makes for something you could put money out for.
 
Comparable also is Star Wars: Galaxies. Trials of Obi-Wan was NOT a decent expansion. It added one planet, that was nearly all just dungeons. Not something I'd pay for. Jump to Lightspeed, on the other hand, was a great expansion. It added an entirely new dimension to gameplay.
 
MoM got my vote.

@ Frostbite55
You are very wrong. I don't like WoW, I have my reasons. Obviously WoW fanboys will vote for WotLK. Anyone who has experienced MoM knows it's better. Can you really justify yourself spending 40 bucks for a small island to play on and one class? I can surely justify my 85 bucks for what I got with MoM. It's higher quality, higher quantity. And all around better. I think you're just the 'hater' here, not I.
 
Thank You,
 
 - Eric

Not sure how anyone can vote here unless they have played all the 6 expansions?Personally i don't like expansions,because they draw players further and further away from each other.New players joining these games feel totally alienated and have the feeling there world is DEAD,and for the most part it is.

I think if games want to do expansions they should stick to new classes/jobs /abilites.This way players will go back and interact with new players keeping the entire community alive.They can also add new mobs/weapons/armor ,new crafts/recipes.Have we EVER seen a game show some realism,like maybe the townspeople have done some excavating ,making the present maps larger/different.No need to ALWAYS make maps further away ,sometimes through warps/portals.

Originally posted by LordAdder

I wonder what the age demographic is for WoW.  Anyone know what the statistics are?  I'd wager that the vast majority fall into the 13 - 21 range.  Add to that the massive amount of money spent on advertising for WoW and media bias to the game and you have record sales.  That doesn't make a great game nor a great expansion in Wrath of the Lich King.

The Mines of Moria - Khazad-dûm - from the Tolkien works is the granddaddy of all dungeons and the basis for most any dungeon in the gaming world today. Turbine's implimentation and rendering of the Mines of Moria is ground-breaking in it's scope and size (it is being looked at by the Guiness Book of World Records), breath-taking in it's vastness and beauty, and with only a few minor bugs, most of which have already been fixed in two patches barely two weeks out from launch, the launch was nearly flawless.  The two new classes are well balanced and fun to play, the Legendary system is an awesome addition, and the two other areas added besides the Mines themselves - Eregion and the first part of Lothlórien - are beautiful and full of well written content and storyline.  Add to that formula the new Monsters, improvements to PvMP play, raised level cap, two new character slots, new 3-, 6-, and 12-man instances, Crafting Guilds, quest bags, key rings, lowered requirements for cosmetic clothing, and tons of new content, equipment, and resources, and you have a truly great expansion.  Needless to say, Turbine's Mines of Moria got my vote.

The other three -  Seeds of Destruction, The Shadow Odyssey, Empyrean Age - all have their strong points ( I even purchased and installed TSO but have yet to play because MoM is occupying all of my attention and time at present), but none can even compare to the grandeur of the Mines themselves.

(EDIT - Turbine's biggest flaw is their lack of marketing strategy and miniscule advertising.  I truly believe that with advertising of only half of what WoW spends, LOTRO would clobber it's competitor in sales and popularity.)

Oh yes, blame marketing for everything. You haven't even given any thought that the reason why WOTKL is doing so great is because its ... *gasp*  good? No, that would be impossible! Its Blizzard and their brainwashing marketing schemes and hypno-advertising that made all those people go out and pay for WOTKL.

Seriously though, I pity anyone who tries to blame marketing, media bias, government conspiracy, weather, alien mind control or whatever on someone else success. If LOTRO isn't doing better then WoW  in sales (WoW lore isn't as good as LOTRO, btw) then perhaps its not WoWs fault, but LOTROs? People go out of their way to pour dirt on anything just to make them feel a bit better because their personal favorite game isn't doing as good as some other game.

Originally posted by SignusM

The fact that it sold well doesn't mean its a good game by any stretch. The expansion is actually quite sub par compared to Burning Crusade, which was already bottom of the barrel. For a team with hundreds of developers, proportionally, the expansions are abysmal.

Why would 2.8 million people buy the game? Just because the advertisement told them to? Why do 10+ million people keep playing it too? Because they hate it?

Obviously has to go to WOW.

Originally posted by nickelpat

To myself, Moria is the only expansion up there worth money at all (I know EVE is free). WotLK introduced one new class (which you had to 55 to play anyways) and one small (compared to others) landmass (that you also had to be a high level to play). I never really heard anything big about the two EQ expansions. And I'm sure the EVE one didn't double the playable space and add a bunch of items and what not.
 
Mines of Moria doubled LOTROs playspace with Eregion, Lorethias and Moria, introduced two completely new classes from the start. Both classes with very unique playstyles. New items for all levels of the classes. And the legendary item system. Not only is the quantity huge, but the quality of the expansion in bar none.
 
Wraith of the Lich King compares to LOTRO's free updates, even with the addition of Northrend (which is really just an arctic wasteland, I wouldn't think it that interesting).
 
Game companies need to learn what an expansion really is. WotLK is NOT an expansion, it's a scam. MoM IS an expansion. An expansion pack should significantly add more to the game. One small landmass and a class that only high level players can use if not significant. Three areas, which combined double the playable area of LOTRO, and two new classes (with all items) and a new item system, legendary weapons, makes for something you could put money out for.
 
Comparable also is Star Wars: Galaxies. Trials of Obi-Wan was NOT a decent expansion. It added one planet, that was nearly all just dungeons. Not something I'd pay for. Jump to Lightspeed, on the other hand, was a great expansion. It added an entirely new dimension to gameplay.
 
MoM got my vote.

@ Frostbite55
You are very wrong. I don't like WoW, I have my reasons. Obviously WoW fanboys will vote for WotLK. Anyone who has experienced MoM knows it's better. Can you really justify yourself spending 40 bucks for a small island to play on and one class? I can surely justify my 85 bucks for what I got with MoM. It's higher quality, higher quantity. And all around better. I think you're just the 'hater' here, not I.
 
Thank You,
 
 - Eric

I haven't tried MoM so I'll take your word for the info you posted. If MoM doubled its landmass, then yeah, its a huge benefit for the game. The other features also seem to be pretty big one: 2 classes, legendary item (i like the idea very much).

But just as I don't speak out of my ass pouring dirt on MoM, you shouldn't do so to WoW. WoW is not an arctic wasteland. It has lush forests and swamps and those "magic" type of areas where theres energy all around you. Sure there are lots of snow, but its not a desert. Also, if you check the map  

Northrend added about 1/4 or 1/3 of the landmass. Not as big as MoM but not that tiny either. One new class is OK too. Its not great IMO because DKs start at level  55 and are very much overpowered compared to other classes of the same level. But its a decent addition.

Lots of new crafting content rejuvenanted the whole crafting side of the game. Some crafting professions are actualy meaningfull and have a point. For example tailoring gets a recepie to make a flying carpet that acts like a mount. Cant wait to fly that!

I only touched WOTLK, but so far Im liking it. I wish it was a bit bigger, like MoM. But its not a bad expansion. Definitely worthy of a vote.

Originally posted by jimmyman99

Oh yes, blame marketing for everything. You haven't even given any thought that the reason why WOTKL is doing so great is because its ... *gasp*  good? No, that would be impossible! Its Blizzard and their brainwashing marketing schemes and hypno-advertising that made all those people go out and pay for WOTKL.

Seriously though, I pity anyone who tries to blame marketing, media bias, government conspiracy, weather, alien mind control or whatever on someone else success. If LOTRO isn't doing better then WoW  in sales (WoW lore isn't as good as LOTRO, btw) then perhaps its not WoWs fault, but LOTROs? People go out of their way to pour dirt on anything just to make them feel a bit better because their personal favorite game isn't doing as good as some other game.

People who play LOTRO aren't praising it and Turbine just to spite WoW.  It's because alot of us have tried other games (some of us have over a decade of MMORPG experience) and have come to see for ourselves what works and what doesn't.  We know a good deal when we see it.  There's many dynamics still in play that keep people stuck in WoW (friends, time invested, ego, etc).  But that doesn't mean there aren't other gaming gems out there that are better.  We just happen to feel, from experience, that Turbine has the right stuff.  And LOTRO is probably the most in depth, graphically beautiful online game we have every played.

Does that make us all "WoW haters"?  No. 

Mines of Moria all the way!

I hope LoTRO takes GOTY again too in 2008- beating WoW again:) I find it amazing that Turbine produced a "Game of The Year" game when Blizz had a Zillion dollar budget last year! 

Originally posted by Stradden

Today, we present our nominees for the Best Expansion in 2008 category of our 2008 Reader's Choice Awards. In order to qualify for nomination, the product must have been an expansion (and not simply billed as an update. This year, we are including both paid for and free expansions in our list of nominees.

• Empyrean Age (EVE Online)
• Mines of Moria (Lord of the Rings Online)
• Seeds of Destruction (EverQuest) The Shadow Odyssey (EverQuest II)
• The Shadow Odyssey (EverQuest II)
• Wrath of the Lich King (World of Warcraft)

Vote for the Best Expansion in 2008

I voted mines of moria but I will certainly curb my commentar on this particular topic as I've not been able to experience all of these expansions as a matter of fact only played wotlk and mines of moria

Originally posted by Skylah_Moon

 

I am surprised to see EQ2 got in the list.

Unless you want to be forced to FULL GROUP with the CORRECT CLASSES to suceed & have any fun, EQ2 has nothing for you.

TSO is the WORST EQ2 EXPANSION EVER !

Last expansion was solo oriented now it's just FORCED GROUPING.

EQ2 needs to find a balance as solo'ers, duo'ers, trio'ers are starting to cancel their accounts.

 

After 4 years of paying SoE, we have closed our 4 accounts.

So if you want to log in & find a full group all the time, EQ2 is the perfect game for you.

They do have a /feedback command in the game where you can give your feed back on what you like or dislike to help them make a better game for their customers. And they have this new survey you can take too.

Heres the link on the new survey

http://eq2players.station.sony.com/news_archive_content.vm?id=1994&section=News&locale=en_US

Originally posted by Pbunny

 

People who play LOTRO aren't praising it and Turbine just to spite WoW.  It's because alot of us have tried other games (some of us have over a decade of MMORPG experience) and have come to see for ourselves what works and what doesn't.  We know a good deal when we see it.  There's many dynamics still in play that keep people stuck in WoW (friends, time invested, ego, etc).  But that doesn't mean there aren't other gaming gems out there that are better.  We just happen to feel, from experience, that Turbine has the right stuff.  And LOTRO is probably the most in depth, graphically beautiful online game we have every played.

Does that make us all "WoW haters"?  No. 

Im gonna quote your original post to which I replied:

To myself, Moria is the only expansion up there worth money at all (I know EVE is free). WotLK introduced one new class (which you had to 55 to play anyways) and one small (compared to others) landmass (that you also had to be a high level to play). I never really heard anything big about the two EQ expansions. And I'm sure the EVE one didn't double the playable space and add a bunch of items and what not.

Mines of Moria doubled LOTROs playspace with Eregion, Lorethias and Moria, introduced two completely new classes from the start. Both classes with very unique playstyles. New items for all levels of the classes. And the legendary item system. Not only is the quantity huge, but the quality of the expansion in bar none.

Wraith of the Lich King compares to LOTRO's free updates, even with the addition of Northrend (which is really just an arctic wasteland, I wouldn't think it that interesting).

Game companies need to learn what an expansion really is. WotLK is NOT an expansion, it's a scam. MoM IS an expansion. An expansion pack should significantly add more to the game. One small landmass and a class that only high level players can use if not significant. Three areas, which combined double the playable area of LOTRO, and two new classes (with all items) and a new item system, legendary weapons, makes for something you could put money out for.

Comparable also is Star Wars: Galaxies. Trials of Obi-Wan was NOT a decent expansion. It added one planet, that was nearly all just dungeons. Not something I'd pay for. Jump to Lightspeed, on the other hand, was a great expansion. It added an entirely new dimension to gameplay.

MoM got my vote.

@ Frostbite55
You are very wrong. I don't like WoW, I have my reasons. Obviously WoW fanboys will vote for WotLK. Anyone who has experienced MoM knows it's better. Can you really justify yourself spending 40 bucks for a small island to play on and one class? I can surely justify my 85 bucks for what I got with MoM. It's higher quality, higher quantity. And all around better. I think you're just the 'hater' here, not I.

Thank You,

- Eric
 

So, you admited that you dont like WoW and you basically called everybody who voted for WoW a fanboi (highlighted in green). So no, not liking WoW does not make you a WoW hater. Calling people who like WoW "fanbois" without any reason while trashing WoW just for the heck of it is being a "WoW hater". If you voted for MoM, thats great. But there was absolutely no reason to call fanbois all those that voted for WoW, nor was there a point to trash WoW.

EQ2 is dead.  Servers are bare.  It's impossible to find groups.  The game is on easy mode and 10 year old retards are leveling up to 80 in weeks.  So, even if you do find a group, you've got multiple retards who have no idea how to play their class.

Just let EQ2 die.  It shouldn't be releasing anything until they fix the existing problems in the game.  Allowing people to /feedback or /survey is pointless.  They only make the game easier without fixing problems.  They don't even test the game.  Anyone can see that with the release of the expansion, I mean the vendor bug.  How hard is it to do a heuristic analysis on the game?  Does anyone at sony even understand that word?  Nope.

Save yourself the frustration and buy anything else.  Hell, Hello Kitty Online is better.

Originally posted by sipico

EQ2 is dead.  Servers are bare.  It's impossible to find groups.  The game is on easy mode and 10 year old retards are leveling up to 80 in weeks.  So, even if you do find a group, you've got multiple retards who have no idea how to play their class.

 

Just let EQ2 die.  It shouldn't be releasing anything until they fix the existing problems in the game.  Allowing people to /feedback or /survey is pointless.  They only make the game easier without fixing problems.  They don't even test the game.  Anyone can see that with the release of the expansion, I mean the vendor bug.  How hard is it to do a heuristic analysis on the game?  Does anyone at sony even understand that word?  Nope.

 

Save yourself the frustration and buy anything else.  Hell, Hello Kitty Online is better.

Every MMO has their bugs/problems when releasing a new expansion.

And the game was tested on the test server before release, but there will always be bugs/problems that are not caught before release.

Moria without doubt   the best expansion ever by a mile and an incredible gaming experience in Moria, add to that the new Legendary weapons and Items and its just Awesome. Anyone that has'nt played Lotro now is the time to get in there ! 

I think this is clearly a battle between MoM and Wotlk.. both seems to be impresive expansions with lots of content (only played MoM thou)... Both expansions are getting very good reviews from the big ones like IGN.com and gamespy.com

The reason I think MoM deserves to win is that is that Turbine is a small indy company who managed to make an expansion that is on par (or better) than what the huge  Activision-Blizzard (backed by Vivendi) did!

Also... while it seems WoW have been made easier with their expansion, LotrO have been made alot more complex and difficlut with Mines of Moria!

It really lacks a  None of the Above  option.

Originally posted by jimmyman99

Originally posted by LordAdder

I wonder what the age demographic is for WoW.  Anyone know what the statistics are?  I'd wager that the vast majority fall into the 13 - 21 range.  Add to that the massive amount of money spent on advertising for WoW and media bias to the game and you have record sales.  That doesn't make a great game nor a great expansion in Wrath of the Lich King.

The Mines of Moria - Khazad-dûm - from the Tolkien works is the granddaddy of all dungeons and the basis for most any dungeon in the gaming world today. Turbine's implimentation and rendering of the Mines of Moria is ground-breaking in it's scope and size (it is being looked at by the Guiness Book of World Records), breath-taking in it's vastness and beauty, and with only a few minor bugs, most of which have already been fixed in two patches barely two weeks out from launch, the launch was nearly flawless.  The two new classes are well balanced and fun to play, the Legendary system is an awesome addition, and the two other areas added besides the Mines themselves - Eregion and the first part of Lothlórien - are beautiful and full of well written content and storyline.  Add to that formula the new Monsters, improvements to PvMP play, raised level cap, two new character slots, new 3-, 6-, and 12-man instances, Crafting Guilds, quest bags, key rings, lowered requirements for cosmetic clothing, and tons of new content, equipment, and resources, and you have a truly great expansion.  Needless to say, Turbine's Mines of Moria got my vote.

The other three -  Seeds of Destruction, The Shadow Odyssey, Empyrean Age - all have their strong points ( I even purchased and installed TSO but have yet to play because MoM is occupying all of my attention and time at present), but none can even compare to the grandeur of the Mines themselves.

(EDIT - Turbine's biggest flaw is their lack of marketing strategy and miniscule advertising.  I truly believe that with advertising of only half of what WoW spends, LOTRO would clobber it's competitor in sales and popularity.)

Oh yes, blame marketing for everything. You haven't even given any thought that the reason why WOTKL is doing so great is because its ... *gasp*  good? No, that would be impossible! Its Blizzard and their brainwashing marketing schemes and hypno-advertising that made all those people go out and pay for WOTKL.

Seriously though, I pity anyone who tries to blame marketing, media bias, government conspiracy, weather, alien mind control or whatever on someone else success. If LOTRO isn't doing better then WoW  in sales (WoW lore isn't as good as LOTRO, btw) then perhaps its not WoWs fault, but LOTROs? People go out of their way to pour dirt on anything just to make them feel a bit better because their personal favorite game isn't doing as good as some other game.

I have to apologize for this partial hijack, but I can't let this go unanswered... 

Ummm, who said anything about brainwashing, 'hypno-advertising', government conspiracy, weather, alien mind control... Geesh. You need to lay off the sugar and caffeine.  The last I checked, advertising is used to promote and sell an idea or a product.  The more advertising, the more media saturation, the greater the chance that people will buy the product.  The younger the audience or target group, the more susceptable they are to mass media and promotional hype.  These aren't 'conspiracy theories', they are common knowledge and the reason companies spend millions of dollars to advertise their products.

Blizzard is one of the biggest with plenty of funds to saturate every media outlet to sell their games and their target is of course the younger crowd.  Add it up.  But all of that hype does not make a product great.  My son played WoW and has as much experience in MMOs and gaming in general as I do, and was quickly disappointed in the game, as are many others who have posted here and on numerous other gaming forums across the internet.

As for your last comment  - "If LOTRO isn't doing better then WoW in sales (WoW lore isn't as good as LOTRO, btw) then perhaps its not WoWs fault, but LOTROs?" - did you bother reading my entire post?  The edit at the bottom which was added before you posted clearly states - "(EDIT - Turbine's biggest flaw is their lack of marketing strategy and miniscule advertising. I truly believe that with advertising of only half of what WoW spends, LOTRO would clobber it's competitor in sales and popularity.)"

I wasn't pouring dirt on WoW.  I was stating an observation as to the main reason WoW had such huge sales.  LOTRO is doing just fine as it is, with a huge boost in new subscribers with the expansion.  But as I stated, with the quality of the game in general, and the expansion to be specific, if Turbine had a more aggressive marketing strategy and spent a bit more on promotion and advertising, WoW's numbers wouldn't look nearly as impressive.

Originally posted by fjallgarth

Despite some bugs it's Moria for me. Not only the biggest most interesting Dungeon I have seen in any game, the new classes and the item system are a great and new addition to the game, while wotlk brought more of the old. I admit, Norhtrend is beautifully done and some of the quests are interesting, but it became boring very soon due to being too easy and all the people rushing to max-level ignoring the content and storys on their hunt for epics.

A lot of first time posters for Mines of Moria .. .. People love to overhype this game for some reason lately.

Originally posted by qombi

Originally posted by fjallgarth

Despite some bugs it's Moria for me. Not only the biggest most interesting Dungeon I have seen in any game, the new classes and the item system are a great and new addition to the game, while wotlk brought more of the old. I admit, Norhtrend is beautifully done and some of the quests are interesting, but it became boring very soon due to being too easy and all the people rushing to max-level ignoring the content and storys on their hunt for epics.

 

A lot of first time posters for Mines of Moria .. .. People love to overhype this game for some reason lately.

It's funny that the amount of posts under the avatar does have such a huge meaning for some users over here. Especially as the amount of posts does say nothing about the time, since the account-user was reading this page nor does it tell anything about the reason for such low post-numbers, that may go from your conspiracy theory inspired hype-account or flame-account over "wow, although i like the news those forums often seem worde than the official wow forum, so why bother with posting?" up to "urghs, lost my account data I last used about 1-2 years ago". (-8

Number fourhundretandalittle would mean I shouldn't take your post as serious as those of other people with higher post numbers I guess? *g*)

Anyway, I do play both games mentioned in my post, I do pay for both, and still, Moria tops WotLK big times (some of the reasons described in horrible english in my first post). I wouldn't play for WoW if the game would be horrible.  :-)

Originally posted by LordAdder

I have to apologize for this partial hijack, but I can't let this go unanswered... 

Ummm, who said anything about brainwashing, 'hypno-advertising', government conspiracy, weather, alien mind control... Geesh. You need to lay off the sugar and caffeine.  The last I checked, advertising is used to promote and sell an idea or a product.  The more advertising, the more media saturation, the greater the chance that people will buy the product.  The younger the audience or target group, the more susceptable they are to mass media and promotional hype.  These aren't 'conspiracy theories', they are common knowledge and the reason companies spend millions of dollars to advertise their products.

Blizzard is one of the biggest with plenty of funds to saturate every media outlet to sell their games and their target is of course the younger crowd.  Add it up.  But all of that hype does not make a product great.  My son played WoW and has as much experience in MMOs and gaming in general as I do, and was quickly disappointed in the game, as are many others who have posted here and on numerous other gaming forums across the internet.

As for your last comment  - "If LOTRO isn't doing better then WoW in sales (WoW lore isn't as good as LOTRO, btw) then perhaps its not WoWs fault, but LOTROs?" - did you bother reading my entire post?  The edit at the bottom which was added before you posted clearly states - "(EDIT - Turbine's biggest flaw is their lack of marketing strategy and miniscule advertising. I truly believe that with advertising of only half of what WoW spends, LOTRO would clobber it's competitor in sales and popularity.)"

I wasn't pouring dirt on WoW.  I was stating an observation as to the main reason WoW had such huge sales.  LOTRO is doing just fine as it is, with a huge boost in new subscribers with the expansion.  But as I stated, with the quality of the game in general, and the expansion to be specific, if Turbine had a more aggressive marketing strategy and spent a bit more on promotion and advertising, WoW's numbers wouldn't look nearly as impressive.

You dont really need to advertise LOTRO, the name speaks on its own. LOTRO got enough marketing and advertising from the start. If they were to dump 10x more advertising right now, it would just be waste of money. If you think that more advertising=more sales, then you are wrong. If you work for a medium-large company that releases a new product you would know that you need lots of coverage at the begining only.

After some time you tone down your ads and keep just a minimum coverage - just to remind people that your product is still there and that it is still great. I think LOTRO is getting enough marketing, thats why it sounded outrageous when someone blames marketing for the failure of a product (hence the reference to "brainwashing", people would make up ridiculous claims just to avert attention from the real problem).

And again, why do you keep insisting that the humanity is stupid? Only stupid people buy products SOLELY on advertisement. WoW has huge sales NOT becuase it was hugely advertsed, but because it appeals to a huge number of people. Appeals as in they like it, not they liked their advertisment.

Look at AoC, HUGE hype, HUGE advertisment campaign, bigger then WoW IMO. Huge sales? No.

I just want to know why EQ Seeds of Destruction was in this poll? SoD is the worst expansion Everquest has every put out. I was in the beta program and there were still alot of major bugs still in there when it went live. You can tell by this expansion that SOE is trying to fade out EQ by continually putting out junk and half finished product. SOE is killing this game. This expansion has caused me for the first time in 8 years of playing EQ to delete it off my hard drive. I used to love this game, I even met my wife playing EQ. Now I cant even stand to see anything Everquest.

Mines of Moria - naturally.

Any other choice would be just wrong for me. I have tried the ones that actually count for me, that is WotLK wich I found 'more of the same old second job, only a little prettier and with more bling', EQ2 that unfortunately felt really dated already and still had alot of timesinks in place, and EVE, wich still being extremely Sci-Fi beautiful still felt like playing Excel with graphics.

Moria is just stunning, both in basic design and in the visual aspects. It truly expands on the Shadows of Angmar basic game in a whole bunch of ways. There are the obvious, ie. Legendary items wich are amongst, if not The, coolest thing I have ever encountered in an MMORPG, the intricate design of the mines themselves, the two new classes, with one of them a lore breaking mage and the other a tank meant for the thinking gamer. The true wonder of this expansion is twofold.

1. It is immense, and really captures the feel of the Largest Dungeon Crawl ever. If one has any feelings for Tolkiens work, the mere possibility to walk the narrow edges of khazad Dûm would probably be enough, but here they have weaved so much great prose and so many new quests that it will take quite some time to actually play through it all.

2. They did it despite a relatively low subscription rate, compared to the Big Monsters of MMORPG's. And they did it after a fantastic series of free expansion patches.

I also have to weigh in the Community - wich for LOTRO is lightyears ahead of the others. Since I know the same community feeling will follow over to Moria - it is a sure winner.

And for you who thinks that this game is flawed and has problems that we who like it 'ignores'  - to you I will say - They are not flaws, they are there by design. You are most likely a WoW player and such persons are often blind to other possibilities than their own game. This is generalising, I know, but nevertheless close to the truth. WoW is also a good game, especially for younger people wich shorter attention spans and a constant need of gratification. Such a person would not be content wich stolling the countryside in Forochel just taking in the icy beauty of the landscape. I am not saying that LOTRO is a perfect game, like WoW it has shortcomings. For me, the worst thing about WoW would be the person who contantly jumps in my face and screams 'OMGROTFLURPWNDI ROXORZ!!!11!!'. I much rather have someone bow before me while saying "Mae govannen' or 'Elen sila lumenn omentilmo' - and in Mines of Moria I can have that.

Sorry for this long and not to the point text - that is WAY out of topic.... mostly.

Originally posted by sipico

  The game is on easy mode and 10 year old retards are leveling up to 80 in weeks.  So, even if you do find a group, you've got multiple retards who have no idea how to play their class.

thought you were talking about EQ2 not Wow?

I voted Seeds of Destruction.

The mercenary system is very well done and they have made some real QoL improvements to the game with this expansion.