Granted this is only in tier 1 and tier 2, but KOTBS in all scenarios at this early stage are very overpowered, they do the same or more damage than marauders of that level. On top of that they are pretty much unkillable by melee and have very powerful buffs.

I know Order feels they should get a carrot to boost their population but is giving them the most overpowered dps tank utility class with two handers really needed?

Human tanks with 2 handed swords that rip everything apart in front of them, might as well give them a -50% healing debuff and call them arcanite reaper wearing arms warriors from early wow

We all know that WAR is a shallow game anyways.  Get in for a few weeks and most people stop playing anyways so dont worry much about it.  WAR is a lost cause.

Warhammer is an awesome game, much better than WoW, LOTRO, AOC, etc 

But KOTBS is just a nutty class in the middle of a well balanced game

Now that bright wizards and sorcs got toned down a little, class balance is much better than any other game

EXCEPT for KOTBS, which just seems kind of way overpowered atm

Haven't had any problems with them. Did some tier 1 scenarios yesterday to try out the new Magus... I did about 40k damage in each scenario. I don't think I've seen a knight even break 16k... and trust me there were a lot of knights. Marauders can do a crapload of damage as well, although they are somewhat hindered if all their opponents are tanks, obviously.

Originally posted by Greyhooff

Granted this is only in tier 1 and tier 2, but KOTBS in all scenarios at this early stage are very overpowered, they do the same or more damage than marauders of that level. On top of that they are pretty much unkillable by melee and have very powerful buffs.

I know Order feels they should get a carrot to boost their population but is giving them the most overpowered dps tank utility class with two handers really needed?

Human tanks with 2 handed swords that rip everything apart in front of them, might as well give them a -50% healing debuff and call them arcanite reaper wearing arms warriors from early wow

Why are you comparing them to marauders? They are not marauder mirrors they are chosen mirrors, go play your chosen and see if he doesn't deal the same or if not similar amount of damage. Jeez, some people just loooove to complain without knowing the facts.

its just the stake that is being offered to rtempt people to go in for Order

Dont you know amny people like to join the band wagon Down the road the class will be nerfed

But for a change its nice to see KOTBS gangs roaming the RVR 

Can I have your stuff?

destruction whiners, you win 95% of scenarios and RVR on almost all servers. How easy do you want it for your side? go on make another whine NERF KOTBS. And if this happened after BW nerf i promise you, no order will be left to fight your destruction zerg.

Atleast on my server we are sick of destruction cy babies and they dominate us in everything. Wonder why they cry so much? don't they see their OP classes like WE, Marauder and black Orc? intrestingly Order doesn't whine that much.

Originally posted by Greyhooff

Granted this is only in tier 1 and tier 2, but KOTBS in all scenarios at this early stage are very overpowered, they do the same or more damage than marauders of that level. On top of that they are pretty much unkillable by melee and have very powerful buffs.

I know Order feels they should get a carrot to boost their population but is giving them the most overpowered dps tank utility class with two handers really needed?

Human tanks with 2 handed swords that rip everything apart in front of them, might as well give them a -50% healing debuff and call them arcanite reaper wearing arms warriors from early wow

I'm laughing just a bit here because when all I saw were black orc and chosen hulks running at me just after release I was a bit remiss.

I and others have been saying that human tanks are going to be a big deal for this game as far as balance. Why? 2 reasons, one is that not enough people like the dwarf look to play one with any kind of intensity. The other is that KotBS would be what chosen would have been if the devs were given 3 more months to tweak the profession.

Insane damage? Maybe. But it does not scale through even tier 2 as I have seen so far. I've fought one of everything from the opposing side and the most damage I do is with the DoT I can stack up to 3 times.

This is also a class that takes a bit more damage than the chosen (I do play both on seperate servers). KotBS has stronger auras at a lower level and more damage. I still see chosen as having decent damage and very good mitigation as a mirror class. The stats CAN'T be exactly the same. This isn't chess; the pieces think for themselves in this game.

Originally posted by Greyhooff

Granted this is only in tier 1 and tier 2, but KOTBS in all scenarios at this early stage are very overpowered, they do the same or more damage than marauders of that level. On top of that they are pretty much unkillable by melee and have very powerful buffs.

I know Order feels they should get a carrot to boost their population but is giving them the most overpowered dps tank utility class with two handers really needed?

Human tanks with 2 handed swords that rip everything apart in front of them, might as well give them a -50% healing debuff and call them arcanite reaper wearing arms warriors from early wow

QQ

Well looks like all those KOTBS are coming into late tier 3 / early tier 4 now, so we'll soon see if they are as OP at 40 as they are early on in the game

 I agree with OP whole heartedly.  What a travesty !!!

If KoBTS can stack these stances, and we should demand, the following skills be fix for Desto:

1. Desto roots skill be stackable.

2. Zealot's blessing be able to absorb 100% of damage for 20 seconds

3. WE's stealth cooldown be reduced to 30s, and WH's stealth cooldown be increased to 90s.

4. All Chosen's aura be stackable and of longer duration than Order.

5. All Sorc's damage radius be increased to 60 feet.

6. Magus's Rift be increased to 40 feet, and Magus is immune to any hit for 30s.

Hmm, what else ?!    Let's make this game a Desto PvP game once and for all.  

 The beneficial parts of Knight auras don't stack, and frankly, they seemed overpowered in low-tier RvR largely because every group consisted of fucking twelve of them.

Fighting in Gates of Ekrund when absolutely everyone was completely sapped of all their strength was a -lot- easier than when only a few KotBS were in a group.  Things will even out, although a lot of Glory's skills are pretty remarkably silly.  Shield of the Sun is a silly, silly spiky-tank ability which I use to great effect, but that's just because Witch Elves don't know to leave me the fuck alone when I'm on fire.  Thing is, they've never really had to fight Chosen before, and Chosen's auras work just the same as KotBS.  So, y'know, a group of twelve Chosen with a few moer points of Strength who are sapping every ounce of it out of their enemies?  Yeah, they're gonna cap flags in Nordenwatch.  Same as KotBS do.

And I -still- like my Sigmarite better.

Also, out of curiosity, what do you take 'insane damage' away from?  From meters in Scenarios, or what?  What's your criteria?

 Heh.  Also, I do much, MUCH more on damage meters playing sword-and-board than doing the two-hander thing.  KotBS aren't a  burst class.  They're there to help everyone else stay alive, and to absorb a ridiculous amount of punishment in the meantime.  I far prefer to use a shield because of the ridiculous amount of survivability it provides... particularly when I'm bouncing damage back at folks.

They play pretty similarly to a Chosen, I don't see the big deal.  I actually skipped heavy metal so I've been playing a Chosen in scenarios during the "great tank rush of '08."  They certainly put up a better fight than those ridiculous eleven tanks, but I wouldn't say that they are any harder to take down than an Ironbreaker.  

You sure as hell don't want three or four on you, but that's not going to be a common occurance once the numbers of them thin out some.  They are currently the FotM.  I remember at launch getting jumped by more than one Chosen was pretty much a death sentence as well (I started Order).

Originally posted by Greyhooff

Warhammer is an awesome game, much better than WoW, LOTRO, AOC, etc 

But KOTBS is just a nutty class in the middle of a well balanced game

Now that bright wizards and sorcs got toned down a little, class balance is much better than any other game

EXCEPT for KOTBS, which just seems kind of way overpowered atm

I wouldn't really say overpowered, I mean I was topping damage charts as a SM, and I could take a hit to. I think there fine, order needed a human tank, they got it. 

Anyone can put up high  damage if they know how to play a class. But when you look at these scenario's with the KotBS in them, how many is there? 4-5? With an IB or 2 and a WH or 2? Thats alot of front line, which in turn causes a longer life span, which in turn makes lots more damage. 

But if you actually look at the skills themselves, how much damage  they do, then compare them with other classes skills, there still low. 

The bottom line is, the longer you survive the more likely your gonna cause more damage then the more squisher guy. Thats theory, but theories are just that, not proven facts so anything can happen

Before the 1.1a patch, I must agree witht he OP.  I play  all sorts of healer classes in low level when I'm not focused on my main runepriest.  My current priest in development is a zealot.

In tier 1 I was confused as to what was killing me so dang fast at level 8ish.  Typiclaly as a healer I ignore tanks and keep right on healing myself and others around me. 

But, then I noticed I was dying horrifically fast when faced against an euqual level KotBS.  I would get to around 1/3 or 1/4 life then instnatly die.  I would check the combat log and only see a few dots.  Face another KotBS, and the same thing would happen agian. 

This class is using osme kind of melee skill that dishes out tons of damage.  I started to really take the time to look at my red numbers as I was being attacked, and noticed I was tking damage upwards 160 from mild crits and an average of 100 from some kind of swipe attack.  I looked at White Lions and Witch Hunters, and ran into the same results.  KotBS is literally doing the same damage MDPS classes.

When I face a 2 hander Knight, I MUST treat them like a White Lion, which means full detaunts and shielding and constantly healing myself to remain above half life.

Now after patch 1.1a, I see a huge difference agian.  This class is no longer hitting like a frieght train.  I can actually ignore them again as I heal like I have always done with my healer. 

Here's what probably caused this problem.  The class itself may have been nicely balanced out, but the hardcore players who wanted early access probably farmed "Ruined Weapons" & various "Ruined Armor".  then after making their KotBS, they repaired these items and instantly had up to date gear to dish out good damage.  To make things even worse, at rank 10 RR 10, they would pruchase renown gear and place level 40 rare and epic strength gems into these level 10 items.  Thus boosting the knights strength by 50% or more.

Basiclaly the nights running in the SCs are twinks.  To justify this point, I noticed that 1 out of 10 or so KotBS will steamroll me with massive damage while the others wielding 2 handers will do pathtic damage. 

To counter this, I have never EVER run into a Blackguard who did the same damage asa KotBS on me.  Then again an Ironbreak has never done the same thing, but a Chosen has.

They nerfed them in patch 1.1. Before the patch you could spam blazing blade. Now there is no stated cool down but you have to wait like half a second before you can hit again. This has dramatically lowered there dps. They are still awesome tanks though. This half second timer seems to be applied to all classes because my bright wizard also cannot spam curses as quickly.

Originally posted by Greyhooff

Granted this is only in tier 1 and tier 2, but KOTBS in all scenarios at this early stage are very overpowered, they do the same or more damage than marauders of that level. On top of that they are pretty much unkillable by melee and have very powerful buffs.

I know Order feels they should get a carrot to boost their population but is giving them the most overpowered dps tank utility class with two handers really needed?

Human tanks with 2 handed swords that rip everything apart in front of them, might as well give them a -50% healing debuff and call them arcanite reaper wearing arms warriors from early wow

erm my BO with S&B and toughness build eats those DPS tanks for breakfast so i don't see the issue, really lots of the KOTOBS on my server are alts hence great gear/insane talismans and skilled players behind them. So yes they are good but no way OP they meant to neutralize WE and that they do well.

It's been a while since I made the original post and I wasn't wrong, KOTBS had a few bugged abilities back then that made them OP, apparently it's fixed now in 1.1 :)