Originally posted by Pappy13

Originally posted by Cabe2323

No one is going to compare Britney Spears and Elvis and say they are equally talented.  

 

I will.  Britney and Elvis actually have quite a bit in common.  Elvis was not known simply for his singing ability, rather he became popular because of his looks and antics on stage and partly due to the advent of something called the television.  Had Elvis been born about 20 years earlier, I doubt he would have become a household name.  Elvis got a lot further off his looks and his pelvic thrusts than he did his singing ability.  Now, don't get me wrong, Elvis could sing, but there were a LOT of people that could sing.  Elvis became a legend because people liked to WATCH him sing.  I fail to see how this is much different from Britney.  The ONLY reason that Elvis lasted as long as he did was that he managed to not destroy his career like Britney has.  He was better able to adjust to being a superstar than Britney.  Britney would still be a huge superstar today if not for her psychological meltdown which is well documented.

Britney has never had anywhere near the number of hits that Elvis has.  There is no Comparison. 

Originally posted by daarco

WoW is a popular MMO, not a good one. Same with McDonalds and Britney Spears. Its a difference.

You forgot to say In your Opinion WoW is not a good one. There are many players that would disagree and say its a good one. Games are all about the players preferences,so to say its a good game or a bad game is all in the Eye of the beholder. Enjoy the game you like:P

Originally posted by Cabe2323

Originally posted by Pappy13

Originally posted by Cabe2323

No one is going to compare Britney Spears and Elvis and say they are equally talented.  

 

I will.  Britney and Elvis actually have quite a bit in common.  Elvis was not known simply for his singing ability, rather he became popular because of his looks and antics on stage and partly due to the advent of something called the television.  Had Elvis been born about 20 years earlier, I doubt he would have become a household name.  Elvis got a lot further off his looks and his pelvic thrusts than he did his singing ability.  Now, don't get me wrong, Elvis could sing, but there were a LOT of people that could sing.  Elvis became a legend because people liked to WATCH him sing.  I fail to see how this is much different from Britney.  The ONLY reason that Elvis lasted as long as he did was that he managed to not destroy his career like Britney has.  He was better able to adjust to being a superstar than Britney.  Britney would still be a huge superstar today if not for her psychological meltdown which is well documented.

Britney has never had anywhere near the number of hits that Elvis has.  There is no Comparison. 

Britney's career has been about 5 years long, not 20 years long like Elvis'.  Elvis had 14 career grammy nominations, Britney has 7 in 5 years.  If she pulls it together, it's quite possible she ends up with as many as Elvis.  I don't have the numbers on hits, but again we are talking about 1/4 of the career that Elvis had.  Elvis really wasn't the superstar in the 50's that everyone thinks he was, his name has just become legend.  He had more hits as a gospel singer I believe which shows he had tremendous versatility, but really his legend was born from his stage presence.

Edit:  acording to Wikipedia, Elvis had 18 #1's and 37 top ten which ranks him right up there with Mariah Carey.  All I could find on Britney was 4 #1's.  But again, if you give her another 15 years, she might still come up with about 14 more, you never know.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Elvis_Presley_hit_singles

Besides, song popularity doesn't necessarily mean you can sing.  Kiss had 24 gold albums and I loved Kiss in the 70's, but they can't sing worth a damn. LOL

Originally posted by Cabe2323

Originally posted by Daffid011

Originally posted by Cabe2323

Anyone trying to deny the Above will use the fact that World of Warcraft has won numerous critical acclaim from reviewers. 

Don't you find it odd that after you make that statement you go on to list several reviews and awards that WoW didn't win.

 

Funny how you dismiss anyone for mentioning those things then you turn around and do the same thing.

 

Not at all.  Gamestop's awards were Reader Choice awards.  Meaning they aren't affected by the all mighty advertising dollar like so many "Critic Awards" are.

 

I also seriously doubt that Time Magazine was affected by Advertising either when choosing their top 10 Video Games of 2007.  But too often that "100" or "5/5" next to World of Warcraft was bought and paid for.

As if Time Magazine is the God of anything but their own opinion. "Person of the Year" "100 most powerful people in the world" "top 10 Video Games of 2007" lol. It's pretentious beyond belief.
 

 One must also account for the many elitist nutjobs on this site who pooh-pooh WoW. I have sampled a good few MMos over the years and I rate WoW in my top 5.

Polished? Check

Lots to do? Check

Clean, entertaining, well & lovingly designed zones? Check

Fun factor? Check

Good progression? Check

Optional PvP? Check

Solo'bility? Check

Group content? Check

thats plenty enough for me.

Originally posted by Lexin

Just because a game has the most subscribers does not make it #1 there is more to it then subscribers.

It is easy to agree, it's just that with the 11M subscribers(I'm not one of them though.) it is so far ahead of all the others. That is what makes all the comparisons with popstars and fastfood restaurants irrellevant. WOW is like the only big success MMO. Probably because the MMO genre is so young, but for the time being you have none other area so dominated by one brand maybe with the exeption of Microsoft. Just elaborating the argument. And the examples I tempt to make not valid is from other posts in this thread, so no offense. WOW is where the MMOs as a genre stand right now, it's the beacon whether  you like the light or not. 

Originally posted by nikoliath

 One must also account for the many elitist nutjobs on this site who pooh-pooh WoW. I have sampled a good few MMos over the years and I rate WoW in my top 5.

Polished? Check

Lots to do? Check

Clean, entertaining, well & lovingly designed zones? Check

Fun factor? Check

Good progression? Check

Optional PvP? Check

Solo'bility? Check

Group content? Check

 

thats plenty enough for me.

The fanbois just as bad...Your 3rd to 5th points are opinions though the rest, I can agree with but I can just as easilly make a list of all the negatives in WoW but that horse is beaten to death already, so I wont.

Can't think of 20 better mmo's but one comes sharply to my mind when you talk about quality mmo's that is better than WoW - Anarchy Online was one hell of a game in it's prime. I had me going for years and I still go back now and then just to check the patches. CoX was immensly funny aswell, allthough I tended to spend alot of time designing costumes in that game.

With WoW, well it's been a love/hate thing for me. It lasted around 3 years for me before I got sick and tired of it, allthough in those 3 years I had a few very long breaks from it. My total playtime in that game is hardly over 600 hours(thanks XFire), but sadly I didn't had XFire in those early days to clock my time on the other mmo's I've played over the years. I think you can multiply that number by 10 atleast to get the total playtime I have in Anarchy Online and it's till growing

To compare WoW to other mmo's you really have to look at them pre- and post-WoW I think, ie you can't compare Ultima Online to WoW. WoW popularized the genre and brough alot of people to it that never played a mmo before and also think WoW is the only mmo out there and the best game ever made, which is total bollocks ofcourse. It's a good game, but the best? Not in a longshot.

Hmmm... ponders the Elvis/Britney MMO comparisons...

Well, contininuing the train of thought, then WoW is analogous to Elvis.  It has been around for a while (for MMO's anyways); is popular and is iconic.  Some say Elvis is the King and others simply shrug.  Many folks love WoW, others not so much... kinda like Elvis. 

The Britney of MMO's is no other than SWG.  Awesome, fun, groundbreaking and popular in its day... then Bam!  Meltdown!  Now, harldy anyone likes SWG and they say it is the epitome of what is wrong with the MMO industry these days replete with everyone slamming the game... just like what is happening with Britney.

I know many folks would not agree, but in reality, if you are going to use music analogies, then WoW is more like the Beatles.  The Beatles redefined the Rock'n roll era and totally out sold all other bands at that time.  There was nothing that brought in the numbers like the Beatles then and it brought in millions of new fans into the burgeoning rock music genre.  It has been argued by many pundits that had not the Beatles arived on the music scene, that music would have taken a much different path.

Interestingly, all the things that people say about about WoW "dumbing down" the genre or ruining the genre in various ways were also accusations the Beatles had to endure.  Funny how history repeats itself...

Now, whether WoW has the same level of talent and innovation as George, John and Paul is a whole 'nother matter entirely....

 Anyone who has been around longer than 4 years will tell you, yes, there are very likely 20 MMOs BETTER than WoW. EASILY. 

My top 5 MMOs

EVE

LotRO

Ryzom

GW

WoW

Now you ask why these games are better than WoW?  Well WoW can't touch Eve or Ryzoms Freedom, game world or crafting/gathering systems. Eve and Guildwars Pvp is superior to WoWs and Lotro actually does Pve content (small dungeons and questing) better than WoW.

While I enjoy WoWs character classes and Endgame raiding to an extent. its not enough to over throw those four game sin my eyes.

Edit: the Original UO,EQ and SWG would be 1,2,3 on my list if they werent changed for the worst.

Originally posted by SignusM

 Anyone who has been around longer than 4 years will tell you, yes, there are very likely 20 MMOs BETTER than WoW. EASILY. 

list them

Originally posted by Cabe2323

Originally posted by Daffid011

Originally posted by Cabe2323

Anyone trying to deny the Above will use the fact that World of Warcraft has won numerous critical acclaim from reviewers. 

Don't you find it odd that after you make that statement you go on to list several reviews and awards that WoW didn't win.

 

Funny how you dismiss anyone for mentioning those things then you turn around and do the same thing.

 

Not at all.  Gamestop's awards were Reader Choice awards.  Meaning they aren't affected by the all mighty advertising dollar like so many "Critic Awards" are.

 

I also seriously doubt that Time Magazine was affected by Advertising either when choosing their top 10 Video Games of 2007.  But too often that "100" or "5/5" next to World of Warcraft was bought and paid for.

Oh I see, any review that fits with your opinion is a true honest player based opinion, so it is valid to bring them up as a reference to why WoW is not a good game.

Any review that disagrees with your opinion must be a corporate paid for lie and it is invalid for anyone to mention them.

I am glad we cleared up this little misunderstanding, because I was really afraid you were being a hypocrite.  

Thanks...

Originally posted by slask777

Originally posted by nikoliath

 One must also account for the many elitist nutjobs on this site who pooh-pooh WoW. I have sampled a good few MMos over the years and I rate WoW in my top 5.

Polished? Check

Lots to do? Check

Clean, entertaining, well & lovingly designed zones? Check

Fun factor? Check

Good progression? Check

Optional PvP? Check

Solo'bility? Check

Group content? Check

 

thats plenty enough for me.

 

The fanbois just as bad...Your 3rd to 5th points are opinions 

 

offcourse they're my opinions, that is why I like WoW. I can not understand though, how anyone can truly or objectively list 20 MMOrpgs that are BETTER overall than WoW. Sure anyone who hates wow can copy the order of the forum list to the left, but that is total bullshit.

I am not a 'fanboi' , if I were I would have some WoW sig or Xfire sig displaying 1000's of hours played. I am, however, a fan of the MMO genre who enjoys playing THEM, rather than some snobby elitist T&*T that endlessly complains about them.

I never thought the whole 'fast food' analogy was very good either.

Personally, I prefer to liken WoW to America Online.  It was the first service of its kind to achieve mainstream success - largely by catering to internet noobs.

Like WoW, it recruited noobs by the millions, and when those noobs graduated from noobhood they tended to migrate to other services that weren't as noob friendly but offered things AOL didn't, which gave AOL a strong stigma in non-noob crowd.  When things were going well in the 90s everyone though AOL was the Next Big Thing that would Be Around Forever because it had so many subscribers, but when AOL finally ran out of noobs to recruit it crashed hard and fast, which is what I expect WoW to do sooner or later.  And, after that happens, I don't expect any MMO to ever pull in WoW-like sub numbers ever again, because the noobs that still straggle in will go directly to one of the many newer MMOs that cater to specific interests, since by then everyone will agree that WoW was a stupid idea and we never needed such an MMO in the first place, just like most people think of AOL these days.

Played it and honestly thought it was not worth paying for.

If it hadn't been released by Blizzard, it would just be another clone.

It's interesting that WoW ranked that low. Considering that it probably has a larger subscriber base than the ~20 above it combined, my first thought was 'why'? I have a few theories, and if I had to guess I'd say it's a combination of them all.

• There's a big 'root for the underdog' mentality, where people dislike something for no other reason than it's the popular choice.
• There's also a lot of elitism on this site. For most of you, admitting you play (much less like) WoW would be like Frasier Crane admitting he liked Big Macs.
• Voter fraud. Think about how many people create accounts just to hype up some asian grinder no one's ever heard of.
• WoW has a reputation among avid MMOers of being 'easy', and no one wants to playing the easy game. We all play the uber-hardcore games on the highest difficulty, don't we?

So... why? Why is it that a game so massively popular it gets Ozzy as a pitchman, ranks in the Top 10 reasons for divorce (dunno for sure but I wouldn't be surprised), and has become the defacto MMO standard (fill in the blank: ____-killer.) doesn't even crack the top 20?

Originally posted by ZsasZ

It's interesting that WoW ranked that low. Considering that it probably has a larger subscriber base than the ~20 above it combined, my first thought was 'why'? I have a few theories, and if I had to guess I'd say it's a combination of them all.

• There's a big 'root for the underdog' mentality, where people dislike something for no other reason than it's the popular choice.
• There's also a lot of elitism on this site. For most of you, admitting you play (much less like) WoW would be like Frasier Crane admitting he liked Big Macs.
• Voter fraud. Think about how many people create accounts just to hype up some asian grinder no one's ever heard of.
• WoW has a reputation among avid MMOers of being 'easy', and no one wants to playing the easy game. We all play the uber-hardcore games on the highest difficulty, don't we?

So... why? Why is it that a game so massively popular it gets Ozzy as a pitchman, ranks in the Top 10 reasons for divorce (dunno for sure but I wouldn't be surprised), and has become the defacto MMO standard (fill in the blank: ____-killer.) doesn't even crack the top 20?

The fanboys giving WoW straight 10's definately balances the haters giving it straight 1's, if not outweighing them.

It could potentially be receiving a lower score than it has right now.

Originally posted by daarco

WoW is a popular MMO, not a good one. Same with McDonalds and Britney Spears. Its a difference.

Wow is popular and a good game. Just because you don't like it doesn't make it suck.

I think as far as success goes no other game compares. As far as the fun factor goes nothing else COMPARED back in the day. Now adays, there's nothing that even gives half of us excitement for gaming anymore. Wow sure doesn't do it for me nor does it for alot of people that love mmorpg's. I am still waiting for that game to come out that gets half the subscribers wow has over a year or 2.

Warhammer is something I was hoping for but I lost hope with it already. It's just too unstable and it wasn't nearly as fun as I was wanting it to be. It felt like I had been there and done that. I need a game that is not a grind fest and is new. Closest to it is Aion.

Now, about the rank. I would say it deserves a 10. But, you have to understand it use to be #1. The fact is this, the hardcore mmorpgers have now spread out and gone to old mmorpg's or new mmorpg's that are "ok". We are all still waiting on something fresh. World Of Warcraft is getting more and more boring because we want something new. =)

eh may not get 20 but Ill list my games that are better than WoW .... in no particular order

EQ1, EQ2, EVE, Ryzom, Asherons Call, City of Heroes/Villians, DAOC, FFXI, Anarchy Online, UO, Lineage 2, Vanguard, Planetside, Lord of the Rings Online, Guild Wars.

and I almost put SWG on the list even AFTER the NGE ... if you count Pre NGE its definatley 10 times better than that crap called WoW.

Originally posted by xfrozenx

Now, about the rank. I would say it deserves a 10. But, you have to understand it use to be #1. The fact is this, the hardcore mmorpgers have now spread out and gone to old mmorpg's or new mmorpg's that are "ok". We are all still waiting on something fresh. World Of Warcraft is getting more and more boring because we want something new. =)

That's an interesting thought, I should add it to the list. WoW was the 'gateway drug' for many of us. It's the marquee game among MMOs- when most people think MMO, they think WoW. Once you've played it, the whole MMO world opens up to you, and you realize how much more (and subjectively better) is out there.

As a reformed basher of WoW i would say that there are not 20 better games then WoW.
I am going to list what i think was better then WoW but these are rated from when their hey day, not how they are now.

EQ, DAOC, AC1 were all better games, UO i will put in there also even though i didnt play it because of what the game offered. FFXI was a better game but i could never get over the Pokemon characters in the game so could not play it.

I would put WoW pretty even with EQ2 and LoTRs.

I would have WoW better then Vanguard (as it was launched, it may be better now), Horizons, Shadowbane, Lineage 2 (though close), Guild Wars, City of Heroes.

I truely hate WoW but i would put it in the top 10.
 

Of games I've played, WOW's in the top 10 for sure.

Wait, I think I've only played 10 MMO's.

You can argue about personal opinions all you like, the undeniable fact is that World of Warcraft and its expansions are rated above and beyond every single mmorpg ever released, and World of Warcraft has received more awards than any other mmorpg to date.

Ofcourse you always have the people would rather prefer their inferior niche mmorpg and will make invalid claims by comparing it to britney spears and Mcdonalds, completely ignoring the fact that WoW's biggest achievement is its critical acclaim.

Originally posted by Gameloading

You can argue about personal opinions all you like, the undeniable fact is that World of Warcraft and its expansions are rated above and beyond every single mmorpg ever released, and World of Warcraft has received more awards than any other mmorpg to date.

Ofcourse you always have the people would rather prefer their inferior niche mmorpg and will make invalid claims by comparing it to britney spears and Mcdonalds, completely ignoring the fact that WoW's biggest achievement is its critical acclaim.

And then you have the people who somehow relate public opinion to quality rather than a standard of preference in capacity.

In other words, the people who ignore the fact that how many people like the game is a complete non-sequitur to how good the game actually is.

Point being, many people love the game, many people also love many other games.

WoW just happens to be really damn popular because it can and does cater to the widest range possible. That is all it does and that is all it was designed to do. It was not innovative in any way, shape, or form, it simply was the most accessible.

Now to just find a way to implement accessibility into a more technical and deep game...