Originally posted by KhaelSan

 

---

Originally posted by Ephimero
Don't label Aion as an uninspired WoW clone.
NCsoft has done the best to receive WoW users by having similar pets and pevees, but in the end is completely different.
Destructable housing with aerial bombardments, unique classes by adding skills from other classes to yours, raid bosses in open world leading to conflicts, death penalties, the possibility to go to the enemy's lands to even kill their NPCs, fortress sieges with taxing and influence on the zone you control, instancing will be only used on a minor part of the gameplay, no zoning nor tiered content.
The game is level based yes, but it has way more sandboxish elements than any high budget MMO will be having in the future. And the leveling curve is estimated to be around 250 hours from beta reports.
In an interview with the game's designer, he was asked which games inspired him to create Aion, UO was one of them. Koreans were known for loving Ultima games, they also love competitive games, if you take the grind out of that equation you get a winner.

---

 

MUDS/EQ/SB/WOW/Warhammer/Aion... its all the same to me. Maybe there are some graphic differences, but in the core combat system it still the same old.

You press tab a few times to get the right target and your friends press one button to fire their /assist macro.

Hereafter you all press another button to do damage, you dont have to aim because with heat-seeking technology it will always hit, so the good news is you can play with one hand while you drink coffee, smoke a cig, or masturbate with the other hand.

Since there is no collision detection and no friendly fire you can even stack hundreds of people on top of eachother - like in SB sieges lol, and you can all target the same poor bastard, one by one.

In short, it is the same old spreadsheet combat system, that has been used since the 80's MUDS and it requires little or no player skill.

In Darkfall there is NO targetting. You aim manually every combat move be it a swordblow, spells, missiles. And you'd better be careful too, because there is collision detection with friendly fire. You can hit your friends and heal your enemies.

Also there are no names or guild names floating over peoples heads, so you can recognize people only by their looks, or a timeconsuming having to mouse over the target and some limited information will show. You can see how close to death people are, by how bloody they look. Visual cues to tell you who to finish off, or who to heal.

And there is full loot.

Take a few minutes and let all this information sink in and think about what this means.

It means it requires relatively much higher level og player skill to be successful in DF than in these other simplistic spreadsheet games. There are many more factors to success here. You have to be a good player on a personal level, but also have to work well together as a group, to coordinate attacks and healing, so you dont hit the wrong people.

A small group of well coordinated players can win vs a big zerg, because the zerg group will hit eachother and heal you and your friends.

On top of this awesome combat system, think about the fact that equipment and skill levels means little DF, so your friend who started yesterday can easily join your group of veterans and be useful in pvp.

 

---

Originally posted by Loke666
A MMO that last years always have timesinks. Players have something that they really wants and it takes a long time getting that. Otherwise there will soon be a time when you have done everything and have the best equipment. Many players quit then.

---

 

Good mmorpgs have well thought out gameplay instead of timesinks. Player conflict, warfare, is the core of the game in DF - this is what will keep your playing year after year. This is how it was on Darktide and in SB and in EVE. When you think back in 10 years, you will remember that year where the guild SUN (just example) mustered their allies and almost succeeded in taking over half of the world, or about the time when the guild Shadowthieves betrayed their former allies and changed side and changed the tide of war.

Guilds will form into nations and try to take over the world. There is endless possibilities here, and it will never get old. Yes there will be some "grind" if you can barely call it that. You will need to gather ressources to build your city defenses and siege engines, but it will hardly feel like a timesink, because every step of the way you will be fighting your enemies for control of these ressources.

 

The DF combat is yet to be seen. Until it's beta tested by real players you should remain skeptic, cause FPS aiming doesn't play well with large scale pvp. Not to talk about friendly fire.

Would be terrible to see how an attempt to create skill based pvp ends up as a best VGA/More cores based pvp.

Originally posted by Ephimero

 

The DF combat is yet to be seen. Until it's beta tested by real players you should remain skeptic, cause FPS aiming doesn't play well with large scale pvp. Not to talk about friendly fire.

Would be terrible to see how an attempt to create skill based pvp ends up as a best VGA/More cores based pvp.

That is the whole idea. You can't just run up to your enemies and start spamming attacks. You have to think on your feet and adapt to the constantly changing battlefield. Also, those on the front line of a zerg group will die. If you use numbers to win those numbers will decrease with each successive battle until reinforcements arrive. If you use well coordinated tactics, you should be rewarded, not find out that the tactics are just for determining who gets the first hit.

I noticed watching a Darkfall Video that it had the FPS aiming system. I dont want to play a game where I am always looking at the back of my character and it looks so awkward when they are slashing in all directions and not even hitting the target.

Aion

War

Darckfall.

thats my openione  ^^

Originally posted by flakmonky

Originally posted by Ephimero

 

The DF combat is yet to be seen. Until it's beta tested by real players you should remain skeptic, cause FPS aiming doesn't play well with large scale pvp. Not to talk about friendly fire.

Would be terrible to see how an attempt to create skill based pvp ends up as a best VGA/More cores based pvp.

 

That is the whole idea. You can't just run up to your enemies and start spamming attacks. You have to think on your feet and adapt to the constantly changing battlefield. Also, those on the front line of a zerg group will die. If you use numbers to win those numbers will decrease with each successive battle until reinforcements arrive. If you use well coordinated tactics, you should be rewarded, not find out that the tactics are just for determining who gets the first hit.

Did you bother reading my post at all?

Im talking about lag mixed with FPS aiming, nothing about the convenience of zerging, which is still wishful thinking btw, 80% of 200 hits>100% of 100 hits.

Originally posted by Ephimero

Originally posted by flakmonky

Originally posted by Ephimero

 

The DF combat is yet to be seen. Until it's beta tested by real players you should remain skeptic, cause FPS aiming doesn't play well with large scale pvp. Not to talk about friendly fire.

Would be terrible to see how an attempt to create skill based pvp ends up as a best VGA/More cores based pvp.

 

That is the whole idea. You can't just run up to your enemies and start spamming attacks. You have to think on your feet and adapt to the constantly changing battlefield. Also, those on the front line of a zerg group will die. If you use numbers to win those numbers will decrease with each successive battle until reinforcements arrive. If you use well coordinated tactics, you should be rewarded, not find out that the tactics are just for determining who gets the first hit.

 

Did you bother reading my post at all?

Im talking about lag mixed with FPS aiming, nothing about the convenience of zerging, which is still wishful thinking btw, 80% of 200 hits>100% of 100 hits.

http://www.mmorpg.com/discussion2.cfm/thread/205749

Jvac has a nice post about this subject as well.

Lag shouldn't be bad doesn't mean it won't be we will have to wait and see at launch. From just judging how they stated they are dealing with this issue I have to say it doesn't look like it will be as much of an issue as the current MMO's on the market. The type of Server there using plus having automatic scaling on settings to reduce lag when it happens.

Originally posted by GrayGhost79

Originally posted by Ephimero

Originally posted by flakmonky

Originally posted by Ephimero

 

The DF combat is yet to be seen. Until it's beta tested by real players you should remain skeptic, cause FPS aiming doesn't play well with large scale pvp. Not to talk about friendly fire.

Would be terrible to see how an attempt to create skill based pvp ends up as a best VGA/More cores based pvp.

 

That is the whole idea. You can't just run up to your enemies and start spamming attacks. You have to think on your feet and adapt to the constantly changing battlefield. Also, those on the front line of a zerg group will die. If you use numbers to win those numbers will decrease with each successive battle until reinforcements arrive. If you use well coordinated tactics, you should be rewarded, not find out that the tactics are just for determining who gets the first hit.

 

Did you bother reading my post at all?

Im talking about lag mixed with FPS aiming, nothing about the convenience of zerging, which is still wishful thinking btw, 80% of 200 hits>100% of 100 hits.

 

http://www.mmorpg.com/discussion2.cfm/thread/205749

Jvac has a nice post about this subject as well.

Lag shouldn't be bad doesn't mean it won't be we will have to wait and see at launch. From just judging how they stated they are dealing with this issue I have to say it doesn't look like it will be as much of an issue as the current MMO's on the market. The type of Server there using plus having automatic scaling on settings to reduce lag when it happens.

The problem is that in this game Lag will also have a much bigger impact than in other games on the Market. Games like WoW and the like, you can play with up to 500ms and still accomplish something. I doubt you'll be able to say the same for DF.

So they will -HAVE- to reduce lag to an absolute minimum and even then it -could- still be a matter of the person with the best ping having a  big advantage over everyone else.

This is of course a worst-cas escenario, but lag in a FPS type of game is a much more nagging problem than in your classic auto-aim games like WoW/EQ etc.

Let#s hope they can deal with that.

Originally posted by GrayGhost79

Originally posted by Ephimero

Originally posted by flakmonky

Originally posted by Ephimero

 

The DF combat is yet to be seen. Until it's beta tested by real players you should remain skeptic, cause FPS aiming doesn't play well with large scale pvp. Not to talk about friendly fire.

Would be terrible to see how an attempt to create skill based pvp ends up as a best VGA/More cores based pvp.

 

That is the whole idea. You can't just run up to your enemies and start spamming attacks. You have to think on your feet and adapt to the constantly changing battlefield. Also, those on the front line of a zerg group will die. If you use numbers to win those numbers will decrease with each successive battle until reinforcements arrive. If you use well coordinated tactics, you should be rewarded, not find out that the tactics are just for determining who gets the first hit.

 

Did you bother reading my post at all?

Im talking about lag mixed with FPS aiming, nothing about the convenience of zerging, which is still wishful thinking btw, 80% of 200 hits>100% of 100 hits.

 

http://www.mmorpg.com/discussion2.cfm/thread/205749

Jvac has a nice post about this subject as well.

Lag shouldn't be bad doesn't mean it won't be we will have to wait and see at launch. From just judging how they stated they are dealing with this issue I have to say it doesn't look like it will be as much of an issue as the current MMO's on the market. The type of Server there using plus having automatic scaling on settings to reduce lag when it happens.

I've read that post.

The devs there talk about server side optimization, that has almost nothing to do with client side optimization, people will not lag because the server lags, people will lag because their VGAs cant handle 200 players on the same spot. Consider that on FPS's, at competitive levels, people buy high end computers just to advoid client side lag to have minimal problems with aiming, and in those competitive FPS's you get to see 10 people moving on your screen max, with repeated textures all over the place and with almost no animations. Now take that to a 400 people siege in the same field spamming magic skills that spread fire everywhere, everyone with different armors and more texture loads, aiming there is going to get quite complicated. 

I'd like to be proven wrong though, but huxley faced those problems after the beta and they had to go for an instanced model with 50 people per battleground, and it's a very computer dependant game now, not so much about skill anymore.

I have zero interest in Darkfall sadly. I say sadly because I actually enjoy sandboxes but so far I have not seen a single thing to really appeal to my style of play. Oh wait there's housing I think, that would be cool. Thing is the game is old before it comes out, I know you've heard this a million times before but it is what it is. Is that a bad thing? Not if the game is as much fun as many of you believe it will and I surely hope it is, otherwise it will die a gruesome death. Look at the games from small companies that have plummeted to the abyss lately, all have said to be revolutionary to have these cool new gameplay additions and innovations... That does not guarantee anything in this fickle gaming world. Unfortunately.

WAR will be sucessful no matter what we wish for, I also have zero interest there, but it is Warhammer and will thus bring in enough bacon to sustain itself, it'll never be WoW but maybe that's a good thing. Aion, I'm sorry is not just a pretty a face no matter how much you want her to be. :) In my opinion it will be the surprise hit of 2009, you can call me on that later.

Also I only came here to these forums as I see it as very perplexing that your so awesome fans go around pushing all hype ratings down to make Darkfall rise. I can't wait for this game to release so these activities go away.... Very lame guys.

i agree its all about taste... but in quality i would say aion or war.... darkfall is to ifish about everything they have done.

i agree with Khaelsun..

If there is something that i would like to taste is an mmorpg with many new elements isnide and not something that reminds me wow which im playing 3.5 y now ,enjoyed it kinda bored it after all this time

Originally posted by Andromedus1

Since you've been following it for four years, I can assume that by "dated" you are not talking about the overall concept or gameplay style they are going for.  So, I'll assume you mean graphics...

 

Some useful comparisons

 

Darkfall:

 

http://www.darkfallonline.com/gallery/albums/visuals/ork_capital.jpg

 

http://dawn-online.net/ScreenShots/Darkfall/darkfallHuman1.jpg

 

War:

 

http://mythicmktg.fileburst.com/war/us/home/images/armiesofWAR/greenskins/BlackOrc05.jpg

 

I'll let you decided which is dated, if either.  All of those shots are .jpg, so all recieved some loss in compression and all will look better in game.  However, since all are .jpg, all should have recieved the same degree of loss.

i dont know about date or outdaet mate but if the DF's gameplay core is 70% as it seems to be it will kill all other mmo's ,simple as that gameplay= everything .

Graficks are for imprssions only and for kids that value graficks more than gameplay

Originally posted by Cynthe

I have zero interest in Darkfall sadly. I say sadly because I actually enjoy sandboxes but so far I have not seen a single thing to really appeal to my style of play. Oh wait there's housing I think, that would be cool. Thing is the game is old before it comes out, I know you've heard this a million times before but it is what it is. Is that a bad thing? Not if the game is as much fun as many of you believe it will and I surely hope it is, otherwise it will die a gruesome death. Look at the games from small companies that have plummeted to the abyss lately, all have said to be revolutionary to have these cool new gameplay additions and innovations... That does not guarantee anything in this fickle gaming world. Unfortunately.

WAR will be sucessful no matter what we wish for, I also have zero interest there, but it is Warhammer and will thus bring in enough bacon to sustain itself, it'll never be WoW but maybe that's a good thing. Aion, I'm sorry is not just a pretty a face no matter how much you want her to be. :) In my opinion it will be the surprise hit of 2009, you can call me on that later.

Also I only came here to these forums as I see it as very perplexing that your so awesome fans go around pushing all hype ratings down to make Darkfall rise. I can't wait for this game to release so these activities go away.... Very lame guys.

Well the main mistake you have made is that you say "Look at the games from small companies that have plummeted to the abyss lately, all have said to be revolutionary to have these cool new gamplay additions and innovations...".

Have you looked at Darkfalls features page or Q&A?  The game offers tons more than any other game i have seen in development or out for that matter and the game has been in development for a long long time so lets hope it is polished and feature complete at release. The features certainly are very appealing to me and obviously to alot of other people aswell.

All three are different games.  I will admit that WAR's campaigns are pretty innovative.  Aion implements a unique combat system that i have yet to try, but otherwise it looks a lot like WoW.  I detest non-linear games with preset factions.  Darkfall's free for all sandbox style is a rarity nowadays.  I want to join a clan.  I want to be able to build, siege and defend cities.  I dont' want to be led like a sheep into preset maps and fight the same opposition faction over and over again.  I want to be able to kill/steal from some guy who pisses me off.

City building is seriously becoming a "unique" feature nowadays, when only a few years ago before WoW came out, it was the norm.  Guild warfare was the "in" thing, so much that Guild Wars was released with moderate success.

Can't resist necroing this....

Ok, first off, my vote DOES go to Aion, and not because i think DF or WAR are the bad(as i haven't played either)  but because there are things about Aion-yes things-that after watching for a couple years, have caught my attention. 

That said, WAR may or may not be a good or bad game, but it certainly has a reputation of a slightly modded WoW clone. 

DF is now in closed beta(open beta not open to the public is still closed beta) which may mean anything-Perfect World was in beta for like 2 years.  There have been solid trailers for DF's gameplay, however, I am skeptical due to the fact I haven't seen any interviews or chats with either the producer's or Devs. This could mean anything, but for now, it tells me that the dev's aren't interested in letting devout fans, know that it is beyond alpha, and what the game truly is.  

The combat style seems to be pretty cool, however, this also seems to be a trend, with more action oriented game system, and less skill mashing, to name a few,  Continent of the Ninth, Blade and Soul, Monster Hunter(courtesy of Endrance), Dynasty Warriors online. 

The sandbox play in DF is indeed a unique touch, but that combined with the "FPS" style gameplay would require 75-0 MS to have any fair sort of gameplay.  Now obviousely, this means a dumbing down of the graphics, but I will point out that in an FPS, graphics and sound do make a difference to skilled players-some players can judge an enemies location simply by sound, shadows are important as well-of course and don't forget camouflage.  All very important.  Keep in mind that this is more or less a hack and slash and may or may not have the complexity of a modern fighting game like Virtual Fighter.

So I have my fair share of skeptiscisms about DF, it's true.  A game that has been in development of 6+ years without SOLID information to show progression (interviews, player reviews, ingame UI screenshots etc.)  could mean anything.  

I am worried that Aion may not recieve widespread popularity in NA/EU and will thus shrink the community, and that there will not be proper western support.

WAR doesn't seem to bring enough to the table to make me want to play it. 

Are graphics important to me?  I wouldn't be getting a second GFX card to crossfire it with my current radeon3870 if i felt otherwise.  If I felt graphics weren't important I'd play runescape.  If I felt graphics weren't important, then I would probably never try a new game.  But if you read my profile, I am an avid RTS gamer and game jumper, with a small mix of RPG in there.  So I will continue to play new games,  I'll play darkfall if there's a free trial, I'll play WAR, if there's a free trial.  If either are good, I will stick with them.  But  by giving all games a chance, I enrich my own experience and allow me to make more educated decisions and statements about current and future games.

BTW, I do have a part time job, attend college, spend 3-4 days a week hanging out with friends and manage my fish tank and dogs().   (also note, there wasn't enough room to fit all the games on in my profile)

on a final note, putting this poll on a darkfall forum obviousley swings the favor, if you were to put it on the WAR forums, or Aion forums, you'd see different outcomes.  That said, I'm curious to know how many darkfall fans are following Aion and how many Aion fans are following DF, or how many WAR fans are following both.

aion and war don't play same league with DarkFall on paper, they not complete games in design cause they  not sandbox..

DarkFall is designed for to be complete MMO  game, comparable with UO, PRE-CU SWG and such ..not with the low level poor design games

Originally posted by enSL

Originally posted by DarthRaiden

DarkFall is designed for to be complete MMO  game, comparable with UO, PRE-CU SWG and such ..not with the low level poor design games

Sorry to burst your bubble but based on the last video of people actually playing this game it looks and plays like a totally low level, poorly designed piece of shit.

The only thing not on the same level or even in the same Universe as games like War and Aion is Darkfall.

Time to wake up and put this overhyped pile of shit to rest.

  was not my point. Learn 2 read and comprehend

Originally posted by enSL

Originally posted by DarthRaiden

DarkFall is designed for to be complete MMO  game, comparable with UO, PRE-CU SWG and such ..not with the low level poor design games

Sorry to burst your bubble but based on the last video of people actually playing this game it looks and plays like a totally low level, poorly designed piece of shit.

The only thing not on the same level or even in the same Universe as games like War and Aion is Darkfall.

Time to wake up and put this overhyped pile of shit to rest.

Sorry to burst your bubble but were not so threatend our game won't do good that were on other game forums constantly trashing them constantly like ..... some people seem to be lol. You know who I am reffering to right enSL? lol.

Originally posted by DarthRaiden

aion and war don't play same league with DarkFall on paper, they not complete games in design cause they  not sandbox..

DarkFall is designed for to be complete MMO  game, comparable with UO, PRE-CU SWG and such ..not with the low level poor design games

Sandbox doesn't mean it's a better game.  While it's definately not usual for an MMO, it's not as if it's totally unique, 

The next-gen revolutionary system(I think) is a fully dynamic world, one that grows and evolves alongside players, not just react to them. 

As long as the world does not evolve, the game will limited by it's sandbox play.  And by that I mean, that you might construct a castle, but because of design limitations, you will never be able to create a castle with complete originality, you will always use the same catapults, the same swords.  It won't "Evolve" into the age of gunpowder.    Does this make Darkfall an incomplete game?  I wouldn't say so, neither is it completely revolutionary. 

The longer it takes to release, the farther it will fall behind the times, and so a release by the end of December would be great of course. 

As to comparing Aion and WAR to Darkfall, it's true, they are completely different games.  Sandox play and "FPS" style asside, I really like the music in Aion, and that's one of the things that hooked me, but hey, even though I listen to power metal and Electronic, I have a classical background which may be why I can appreciate it.  

And yes, graphics are important to me.  Flashy animations and explosive attacks?  Well... I've always been a fan of Soul Calibur and if you like that, than you shouldn't mind the animations in Aion.

Originally posted by achellis

so i have been watching this game for like 4 years and now it will be out soon but i seems kinda dated, how do you guys think it will compare to aion or WAR?

Darkfall is sandbox plus hardcore pvp full loot.

Both others are themepark sissy games.

Topic and poll failed:)

Originally posted by Andromedus1

Since you've been following it for four years, I can assume that by "dated" you are not talking about the overall concept or gameplay style they are going for.  So, I'll assume you mean graphics...

 

Some useful comparisons

 

Darkfall:

 

http://www.darkfallonline.com/gallery/albums/visuals/ork_capital.jpg

 

http://dawn-online.net/ScreenShots/Darkfall/darkfallHuman1.jpg

 

War:

 

http://mythicmktg.fileburst.com/war/us/home/images/armiesofWAR/greenskins/BlackOrc05.jpg

 

I'll let you decided which is dated, if either.  All of those shots are .jpg, so all recieved some loss in compression and all will look better in game.  However, since all are .jpg, all should have recieved the same degree of loss.

Man that WAR screen looks ugly and oh so 100% wow

And second screen darkfall is old one new screens look even better:)

Originally posted by GrayGhost79

Originally posted by Printscreen

Does it matter? As long as those 'kind' of people play DF and stay there (you know who you are...), I'm happy if they don't come to Aion, I rather'd have Ragnarok 2, but I'll settle for Aion atm.  As for WAR, neutral to me, just another game, seems like a mature looking kind of WoW (yea, this game style came first and WoW copied, blah blah, i know).

Me and my HD 4870x2 is going to have some graphic orgy in Aion when its out.

 

Aion community still trolling the forums of a game they claim to have no intrest in and attempting to insult another community? lol

And you wont see Darkfall fans go over to there forums why is that
 

Originally posted by Evasia

Darkfall is sandbox plus hardcore pvp full loot.

Both others are themepark sissy games.

"Hardcore" pvp?  have you ever played EVE online? THAT is hardcore PvP and while it's not complete sandbox play, it has the LARGEST world of any game ever created, EVE uses a realistically sized galaxy, and don't forget that its all on one server.  It does help that pretty much all actions are done in solar systems, but even  a solar system, realistically scaled is MASSIVE.  As to PvP, it's as you would imagine a space battle, the larger battlecruisers making the backbone of the fleet with frigates and destroyers providing quick support. 

Oh yeah, there's no respawn, sorry.  If you're ship gets blown up, then that's too bad, your 1 billion isk  b-cruiser is gone now, guess you're going to have to save up for another.  You do get ejected in an escape pod, but if that gets blown up, you better have a clone ready....

Does this make Darkfall a sissy game?  Not necessarily.  Does skill mashing have no skill compared to reactive controls? Not necessarily, that's like comparing Starcraft to Chess.

Besides, if your looking for an "fps" fantasy experience, why not play the "Age of Chivalry" Halflife 2 mod?

And as far as Aion community over here, you may not have spent any time in the Aion forums, but I have, and plenty of Darkfall fans have visited there.

I would have to say DF because... Aion- seems like another asian grind game, War- although fun sometimes gets boring after a while. I would like to through one up there and say SWTOR

just the fact that aion was brought into conversation....