---

I particularly like how the writer correctly identified the core issue - while players ARE playing wrongly, it is ultimately Mythic's fault in failing to show them clearly enough how to play correctly.

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hmm.. I guess this statement, as well as the original editoral throws under the bus the argument that people are being lead like sheep in others games, and thats what makes WAR so refreshing.

It has been said so many times other games 'lead' and 'herd' and 'sheep' you do death, but now it appears this is what the WAR faithful are in total agreement that it is EXACTLY what War SHOULD be doing right now? Sheepherding? Well, if that don't beat the band.

This is rather odd come-about philosophy. I thought the key attraction to WAR was it's 'NON-sheepness' and somewhat sandboxy appeal. Now sheepherding is being put forth as the saving idea for the game to keep it afloat? Is the idea here, that you love War THAT much; that you'd prostitute your ideals a bit as long as the game continues?

I really bet there's a certain other game laughing quite out loud while reading this particular idea coming from War fans... one that they knew all along what people wanted (needed?) and have been doing that for years. Quite ironic.

Originally posted by Gregtheexcon 

 

Of course its the players. Mythic layed out scenario's the way they are for the casual players. Those of us who may only have 20-30 mins to play sometimes. 

The problem was the players. To say any diffrent means you have no concept of the genre today.  People are lazy, want everything fast and handed to them. I play scenario's because I find them fun, when I am not up for it I may try to find a pq or even do quests, but I hate PVE. 

While I wait for scenario's to pop I ORvR., cause I like pvp. These people you see at warcamps, there lazy players. No sense of adventure, or he thrill of the hunt. Thats the problem, gamers are getting lazy. So yeah, I will blame the player base. Everyone can. Mythic gave the options for everybody, people chose there route. 

I seen so many people come on here and just complain about not having groups for PQ's. It ridiculus the amount of posters and articles about this. IF there was soooooo many people having this probelm, how could that same mentality shared by so many people, not correct this. It makes no sense. 5-6 people can run alot of the pq's. 

So yeah, the people who complained about no pq groups quit, they did nothing to get it moving. I believe this because of all the bad publicity this part of the game got, and yet no players tried to make the change themselves. i.e message people on these forums something like hey, whats your in game name we can get together and do something. No they didn't why because Mythic didn't give it to them on a silver platter. 

But whatever, those who quit and will not come back, goodbye, those on the fence, jump right in. Those waiting on coming back, don't wait to long or the beginning tiers will be just lvl 10,11,20,21 alts for scenario fun. So yeah, its the players. Always will be.

 

You ignore the obvious just so you can draw a conclusion and blame the players.

You say people are to lazy to make public quests happen?  Ok lets look at the situation and see what the players had to work with.

• Did mythic supply any forums for players to gather up and try to form public quest groups: no (seriously you suggest people should come to mmorpg.com as part of Warhammers grand design vision?  You realize that this site exists to draw players to new games, not the best idea for any company to send their subscribers here)
• Did mythic restriction regional chat to such a limited area that it was only possible to talk to about 5-10% of a zones area: yes
• Did mythic provide a tool for people to post an ingame message about their groups intentions and what they are looking to accomplish in order to attract group memebers: no
• Did mythic let gold selling spam get so out of hand the many people enabled the "hide from player search" command to avoid the spam: yes
• Did mythic over saturate the zones with more public quests than the player base can support: yes
• Is there a lack of social gathering spot as a result of mythic depriving the players of even the most basic tools almost every MMO has: I think so

It was Mythic that made gathering people difficult.  Maybe people are lazy after the fact, but that doesn't matter considering all the effort Mythic put into making most forms of player communication impossible or damn near so.  Yet you want to blame players for being lazy, but grouping seems to be plentiful in other games.  Why is it so different here?

Beyond that all of this blame shifting doesn't make much sense other than to rationalize the situation of warhammer.  Does everyone really think Warhammer was so well put together that the problem must be hundreds of thousands of people are doing something wrong?  I am sure it must be conveinent to blame something else, but why hasn't anyone just asked the question that explains all of it. 

Is the game fun?  I think the answer was no for more people than it was laziness.  This isn't to say the game is boring, but there are some real trouble spots. 

yep that article hits the nail on the head, the problem is the gamers ... but not just any gamers the WoW gamers.

i Have always said there is too much content in WAR and that players need to be funnelled into certain areas in order to get a good experience from this content. You see WOW do this all the time, quest after quest that moves you through the world. most gamers don't explore anymore unless a quest tells them to go there.

I remember when i played EQ1 my two buddies and I just started off in a direction if we saw something cool we went over there, many times we got our butts handed to us but it was fun and exciting to see something new. Now with this rise of the Quest grind ... if my quest doesn't tell me to go somewhere Im not going there? why would I theres no reward in going there so whats the point.

now most of the time in WAR me and my buddies don't even group up because its much more productive to solo, we tried to take on PQs but were usually the only three there so we cant beat the final guy so whats the point.

WAR needs to be a giant funnel to be successful. get rid of the 3 pairings and make it Altdorf vs inevitable City. give each race its own starting zone thats tailored to their races personality and then at the starting of tier 2 funnel them into the mainland where they will meet up with all the other sides.

Originally posted by Daffid011

 

Does everyone really think Warhammer was so well put together that the problem must be hundreds of thousands of people are doing something wrong? 
 

 

 

yes i honestly believe that on paper Warhammer is an amazing game ... on paper.

-you have scenerio PVP for those that want small scale RVR (group vs group action). and also for those that don't have a lot of time they can just click a button and bam instant action.
-you have open RVR for those that like assault keeps and defending keeps
-Lairs for those individuals/groups that like to explore and find out of the way bosses that drop nice loot
-dungeons for those that like to do dungeon crawls for good loot and good xp
-quests for the questers
-PQs for thats like the huge raid atmosphere without the need to be in an elite raid guild.

so really except crafters there is something for EVERYONE. I thought it was a brilliant game design when i first heard about all these different things to do.

unfortunately everything is a barren wasteland because scenerio rewards the best xp and good loot for most levels.

Originally posted by fungistratus

This article really hits the nail on the head about the game.

I played in closed beta and there was hardly anyone grinding scenarios, it was all spontaneous PQ's and lots of communication and grouping. 

Now it's a ghost town at lvl 20.  I refuse to play until the day i log into skull throne and find a group in the badlands, let alone more that 10 people in the zone.

I dont know how Mythic is going to fix this (NERF Scenario XP Gain) or make PvE gear rewards better than PvP, not just PQ's give all PvE content love.

NOt only that -- how about some Epic Quest lInes or HIdden Quests?  I haven't completed a quest line in the game that WASNT a PQ that gave me a blue or better.  How about class quests that lead to a great item instead of rewarding you with a potion and XP pat-on-the-back?

There needs to be a draw in the community to go after the PvE content.  I think in closed beta everyone did it because they knew there wasn't a point in leveling, as cap was at 20.

I either need to switch servers or cancel sub till this game gets everything worked out.  I would hate to see another TR, another game I followed closely and closed beta tested ( I hope I am not bad Luck).

 

 

 

PvE isn't what this game is about, if that is what your trying to state. It never was. IMO, they shouldn't of added any PQ's or quest related to PvE. It only makes the balance wheel even harder to adjust correctly. It also gets people confused as to what type of game your trying to put out there. It's clearly evident that this is happening. The scenarios also should of never been setup like they are now. The capture the flag, hold the ball crap system they have now almost directly resembles WoW which was never really that great to begin with. Why they didn't just make them like the BG's they had in Dark Age of Camelot is beyond me. They spout all this crap about how much open RvR means to them, and then they place Scenarios inside there game that don't even reflect Open RvR. And they wonder why people are taking the easy way out. 

Originally posted by mackdawg19

 

PvE isn't what this game is about, if that is what your trying to state. It never was. IMO, they shouldn't of added any PQ's or quest related to PvE.

oh god spare me this utter bullsh!t ... the game always had a PVE side to it, sure the focus was mostly about RVR but they never said that PVE didnt have its place in the game. fact is there are MUCH more PVE'rs out there than pure PVPers.

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yep that article hits the nail on the head, the problem is the gamers ... but not just any gamers the WoW gamers.

i Have always said there is too much content in WAR and that players need to be funnelled into certain areas in order to get a good experience from this content. You see WOW do this all the time, quest after quest that moves you through the world. most gamers don't explore anymore unless a quest tells them to go there.

---

Rav, while you have some interesting idea here, I think you are missing two valid points about 'who is to blame":

1. In your above, you appear to be putting the blame of the problems so far at WoW players? You must be assuming that the MAJORITY of players in WARhammer today are, ex-WoW players. What are you basing that on? Are you not accounting for brand new players to MMOs or people who have never even set foot in Wow? It may be hard to believe but there are some gamers who still have not played Wow, and those that played didn't necessarily funnel into Warhammer. They could have came from Guild Wars, DAoC, Fury, console pvp type games (like Halo) in addition to any number of failed pvp type projects. Clearly you need to take all those people into account. They simply gravitate to the style of PvP that they are USED to and actually (gasp!) prefer over Open RvR. Scenarios,short battles, smaller more controllable teams.

2. This is squarely Mythic's problem, not the gamer. Heres why:

Take any server and figure in the amount of content in it. There is plenty to do in War, as lots of stated. I saw plenty to do while I was there. Let's assume Mythic figured on any one server, they have enough content for 10,000 players (just using a number). It is falsely believed, especially by Mythic, that the majority of people playing PvP WANT huge, 300v300 fights. So they put in enough keeps all over to make sure each one could have a 300v300 fight. The problem is/was most people don't have the time or desire to get that deep into pvp. One of pvp's basic appeals is you can get in/out fast, and you have a sense of control and effect while fighting. A huge muck won't let you do that. You feel like an ant, like it doesn't matter if you fight or not. In smaller Scenario type battles, you get immediate feedback usually on how you affect the battle, and it doesnt take all night to see it either. Mythic, like many fans, figured if 10k people were on, at least 7k would WANT to be in the RvR and thus, WAR everywhere. Thats called projection: just because you and 2000 other players like it, doesnt mean the other 8k will.

Again, Mythic just clearly misinterepted data from somewhere and assumed 8/10 people who pvp LIKE Open RvR and that would drive the game. Truth is, it's looking like only 3/10 like that style of Pvp. This is reflective in the server numbers. For the others, there simply isn't enough to keep it interesting. It's good, but not exciting. I think we now know ORvR does not have as huge a base as it was believed.

200v200 is NOT epic compared to the rest of the amount of people playing on the server. In other places, that's usually called niche.

Originally posted by fungistratus

This article really hits the nail on the head about the game.

I played in closed beta and there was hardly anyone grinding scenarios, it was all spontaneous PQ's and lots of communication and grouping. 

Now it's a ghost town at lvl 20.  I refuse to play until the day i log into skull throne and find a group in the badlands, let alone more that 10 people in the zone.

I dont know how Mythic is going to fix this (NERF Scenario XP Gain) or make PvE gear rewards better than PvP, not just PQ's give all PvE content love.

NOt only that -- how about some Epic Quest lInes or HIdden Quests?  I haven't completed a quest line in the game that WASNT a PQ that gave me a blue or better.  How about class quests that lead to a great item instead of rewarding you with a potion and XP pat-on-the-back?

There needs to be a draw in the community to go after the PvE content.  I think in closed beta everyone did it because they knew there wasn't a point in leveling, as cap was at 20.

I either need to switch servers or cancel sub till this game gets everything worked out.  I would hate to see another TR, another game I followed closely and closed beta tested ( I hope I am not bad Luck).

No how about if Mythic fix the game by making the RvR meaningful so that players participate because their realm DEPENDS on it rather than each player simply doing things for personal greed. Mythic can dish out endless amounts of false rewards to the players (more phat loot, more exp, more renown points, more silly titles etc) which fuels each individual players so-called "progress" along the level grinding treadmill but it wont change a damn thing because it still doesnt alter the fact that the RvR in WAR is.........

POINTLESS

Mythic shouldnt have to entice and lure the players to fight for objectives. Unfortunately WAR has not been designed around an RvR concept so thats all they can do. It just doesnt work. They have made a game where the players have to progress up a levelling ladder to allow them to move from one "room" to the next......which are all laid out in a line. There is a beginning and an end to the game.......which just doesnt make any sense in an RvR game that is supposed to be a war between two sides. I havent seen many wars where the participants are segregated into 4 seperate areas and where each area is restricted by the participants "battle experience". What a dumb idea......or should I say lack of idea as Mythic clearly didnt put ANY thought into this game at all. They just looked at WoW, copied it and plonked a few pointless keeps down in a few PvP playpens. Calling it an RvR game is a joke.

There is no strategy or taking and holding of territory. There is no strategic value to anything in WAR. Its just a PvE story exactly like WoW except it is divided into 4 rooms and in each room the players can dabble in an RvR area if they can be bothered.......or they can just ignore it and carry on doing the only thing that allows them to gain any sense of progress......which is of course going up levels so that they can eventually reach level 40 and the almighty mythical Land of End Game where everything is supposedly shiny and awesome.

Its a shame Mythic didnt have the brains to realise that actually that endgame zone should actually be the entire game. Guildwars allowed you to create a maximum level character and skip the whole story part and go straight to the PvP tournaments. WAR may as well do the same thing. Oh but of course they cant do that now can they because then everyone would ditch the first 3 rooms and go straight to room 4.......which highlights how pointless the game actually is. Whats the point in having a war game when you dont actually need to particupate in it? The only thing you can have any impact on is the level of your own cookie-cutter avatar lol

Originally posted by popinjay

 

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I particularly like how the writer correctly identified the core issue - while players ARE playing wrongly, it is ultimately Mythic's fault in failing to show them clearly enough how to play correctly.

---

 

hmm.. I guess this statement, as well as the original editoral throws under the bus the argument that people are being lead like sheep in others games, and thats what makes WAR so refreshing.

It has been said so many times other games 'lead' and 'herd' and 'sheep' you do death, but now it appears this is what the WAR faithful are in total agreement that it is EXACTLY what War SHOULD be doing right now? Sheepherding? Well, if that don't beat the band.

This is rather odd come-about philosophy. I thought the key attraction to WAR was it's 'NON-sheepness' and somewhat sandboxy appeal. Now sheepherding is being put forth as the saving idea for the game to keep it afloat? Is the idea here, that you love War THAT much; that you'd prostitute your ideals a bit as long as the game continues?

I really bet there's a certain other game laughing quite out loud while reading this particular idea coming from War fans... one that they knew all along what people wanted (needed?) and have been doing that for years. Quite ironic.

 

Sandbox? HA HA HA HA HA HA!!!!!!

Explain how this game does not lead the player? How do you escape the levelling treadmill in this game? What objectives can you set yourself other than "I want to reach level 40 so I can attack the enemy city"?

Oh and yes WoW probably is laughing at WAR. In fact it has no doubt been doing that from the very beginning. Why wouldnt they? WAR has tried to be THE RvR game......and yet it tried to do it by copying the game design of WoW. Thats damn good laughing stock material.

Basicly Mythic has forfeited its chance to make a great RvR game and its all because they were too lazy to come up with their own ideas. It serves them right. They stick a few keeps in a few "optional" PvP playpens and yet force the players along a levelling treadmill. Oh the traffic isnt hanging around in the playpens? Oh my gosh! What a surprise! Who would ever have expected it!

---

Explain how this game does not lead the player? How do you escape the levelling treadmill in this game? What objectives can you set yourself other than "I want to reach level 40 so I can attack the enemy city"?

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I dunno. I can only go by what I am seeing the people I know to be baptized WAR fans post now, that War has NOT lead their subscribers ENOUGH by the hand, they want more sheepherding and that is why the game is suffering. Read all the convential wisdom now coming down, thats what it is pointing to.

They say the majority of players are playing "wrong", so War fans now want to be lead, apparantly. They don't feel enough guidance is being given to them.

Originally posted by markoraos

I pretty much agree with the post.

I particularly like how the writer correctly identified the core issue - while players ARE playing wrongly, it is ultimately Mythic's fault in failing to show them clearly enough how to play correctly.

I've been shouted down many times on these boards that I'm blaming players for not playing the game as it should be played. I'm not saying that the game isn't to blame... just that with some more incentive and imaginativeness they could have much much more fun. (stop q-ing for that damn scenario, join a PQ group and suggest "hey lets take a few BOs and a keep for a change?" - when you take a few some enemies are bound to notice and start harassing your band... and voilla - there's your open RvR starting  to roll.)

Sadly a lot of people are not ready for that kind of taking things into their own hands and fully expect the game to lead them by their noses. I blame WoW for that - if WAR released 5 years ago we'd have no such problems whatsoever - mmos were played exactly for this open-endedness and freedom to do your own thing and take initiative. Today it's a different matter - most players fully expect to be led by the hand step by step through the game with easy-to-read signs on the way. If they don't see those signs flashing in bright neon they automatically assume that there is nothing there. If it's not advertised it simply doesn't exit for them.

I dont agree with that. The players are playing the game EXACTLY the way it has been designed. People ARE totally ready to take things into their own hands and fight for things in games.......but there has to be a reason to do it. In WAR that reason doesnt exist.

The main focus of the game is level grinding. Its a linear story where the objective is to get to level 40 and have a big never-ending fight between the two main cities. Yeah sure players can choose to fight over keeps along the way if they want to but whats the point when taking one doesnt really have much impact on anything and certainly doesnt hinder them in any way on their levelling treadmill. Sure it does have some impact on opening up the enemy city but thats endgame content so most people dont give a shit about it. Why go to the effort of fighting over objectives in rooms 1-3 when the only result is that the people in room 4 can attack the city?

......and thats one of the big problems with the game. Everyone is seperated and spread out between rooms 1-4 because of their levels. There is no reason to stay and defend anything because you are forced along the levelling treadmill. The game only alllows you to stay still and think for yourself once you get to the end because then the treadmill is over and there are no more bloody levels to gain so the player can focus on what matters and fight for their realm.

Take EVE as an example. Forget about the mechanics of the game but pay attention to the fact that there is no particular place that anyone is being shepharded towards. Also players of any level or experience and go anywhere and fight over and control different areas. In WAR this is impossible. Thinking for yourself and trying to do something worthwhile is impossible. You either follow the levelling treadmill and move from one room to the next or you.....what? What else would you do? What other goal could you possibly set for yourself?

Yeah I suppose you could blame WoW......but you would be wrong to do so. Blame WAR for copying WoW. People play WAR in the same way that they play WoW because WAR has exactly the same game design. Of course they are going to play the game the same way. Thats how it has been made. People can only do what the game allows them to do.

Originally posted by neonwire

Originally posted by markoraos

I pretty much agree with the post.

I particularly like how the writer correctly identified the core issue - while players ARE playing wrongly, it is ultimately Mythic's fault in failing to show them clearly enough how to play correctly.

I've been shouted down many times on these boards that I'm blaming players for not playing the game as it should be played. I'm not saying that the game isn't to blame... just that with some more incentive and imaginativeness they could have much much more fun. (stop q-ing for that damn scenario, join a PQ group and suggest "hey lets take a few BOs and a keep for a change?" - when you take a few some enemies are bound to notice and start harassing your band... and voilla - there's your open RvR starting  to roll.)

Sadly a lot of people are not ready for that kind of taking things into their own hands and fully expect the game to lead them by their noses. I blame WoW for that - if WAR released 5 years ago we'd have no such problems whatsoever - mmos were played exactly for this open-endedness and freedom to do your own thing and take initiative. Today it's a different matter - most players fully expect to be led by the hand step by step through the game with easy-to-read signs on the way. If they don't see those signs flashing in bright neon they automatically assume that there is nothing there. If it's not advertised it simply doesn't exit for them.

 

I dont agree with that. The players are playing the game EXACTLY the way it has been designed. People ARE totally ready to take things into their own hands and fight for things in games.......but there has to be a reason to do it. In WAR that reason doesnt exist.

There is a reason. It is called FUN. I will not play in a certain way that I don't find fun just because it gives me the most xp/hour. I pay and play games to have FUN and not work for rewards. That's why I've been leveling slowly and had a lot of fun and made a bunch of new friends on the way.

The main focus of the game is level grinding. Its a linear story where the objective is to get to level 40 and have a big never-ending fight between the two main cities. Yeah sure players can choose to fight over keeps along the way if they want to but whats the point when taking one doesnt really have much impact on anything and certainly doesnt hinder them in any way on their levelling treadmill. Sure it does have some impact on opening up the enemy city but thats endgame content so most people dont give a shit about it. Why go to the effort of fighting over objectives in rooms 1-3 when the only result is that the people in room 4 can attack the city?

Your idea that the main focus of the game is level grinding is just plain WRONG. Me and my friends who came from WoW absolutely love the way that everything you do in the game is rewarding in some way and that leveling is something that actually happens spontaneously. I know it is hard to understand  to many but we play the game to enjoy ourselves - the game ITSELF is enjoyable - usually I don't even realize I leveled. I simply do not care about levels - I'm more into bashing those destros, completing as many PQs to see that happens next etc. 

You know, ages ago people played games to enjoy them. Games were played for entertainment they provide at any moment. Today we have this horrifying WoW mindset where the actual enjoyment of the game is secondary to "achievements" in it. In short players are brainwashed to think that the purpose of playing a game is to grind XP or whatever as fast as posssible rather than enjoying the game for itself with rewards and advancement happening spontanously along the way.

As for open RvR in lower tiers... Well there are impacts on T4 open RvR. I know some people who came to 40 just by grinding scenarios and doing solo quests. They don't have friends to call in times of need. They don't know influential proactive people on the server. They do not understand how open RvR mechanics work. They do not really understand the wider picture that is realm war and their sense of realm pride is very mixed at best. What they got is a bag of xp and some gear which don't count as much in the final battles as all the things I listed above. They played the game WoW-style and still they don't get it.

......and thats one of the big problems with the game. Everyone is seperated and spread out between rooms 1-4 because of their levels. There is no reason to stay and defend anything because you are forced along the levelling treadmill. The game only alllows you to stay still and think for yourself once you get to the end because then the treadmill is over and there are no more bloody levels to gain so the player can focus on what matters and fight for their realm.

I don't know about you, but I play to have fun and getting rewards is something that happens along. On the other hand you seem to be exactly the opposite - play for rewards and if you're lucky you might even have some fun along.

For example, I'll go defending a keep in T2 with  my alt and his buddies just because it is fun and I won't give them damn destros a satisfaction of taking one of our keep. Getting some fat xp/rp/gear is nice but isn't crucial for my enjoyment. I play for the experience of it, not some pixel rewards.

And besides in this T2 keep example the most important thing is meeting new people and especially new players and instilling in them a sense of Realm Pride - the feeling that they are fighting for a good cause. In the long run this counts for much much more than plain levels and gear when it comes to T4 battles. It is amazing how much group morale and just plain WAAAGH! means in this game!

Take EVE as an example. Forget about the mechanics of the game but pay attention to the fact that there is no particular place that anyone is being shepharded towards. Also players of any level or experience and go anywhere and fight over and control different areas. In WAR this is impossible. Thinking for yourself and trying to do something worthwhile is impossible. You either follow the levelling treadmill and move from one room to the next or you.....what? What else would you do? What other goal could you possibly set for yourself?

I won't go into EVE but this idea that WAR gives no room for initiative is just plain nonsense. It is all about personal initiative in WAR. I can't count how many times a single person turned the tide of battle in scenarios or open RvR. Just 2 guys with a bit of will can start an open RvR campaign leading to the enemies capital gates. I'd say that WAR demands a bit too much initiative from me sometimes. As for individual goals... looooll.... Here's a few: 1) Collect fluff from ToK unlocks 2) Build and level a guild 3) make a lot of friends 4) Create a reputation for yourself 5) Help out lowbies with your alts 6) Organize and lead an alliance 7) Explore as much world as possible 8) Annoy enemy faction (that's what I do) 9) Help out your faction's economy by crafting (my wife is really into it - cultivator/alchemist with a web of barter contracts, her potions turned more than one scenarios' outcome) etc etc, pick one or pick a few.

Yeah I suppose you could blame WoW......but you would be wrong to do so. Blame WAR for copying WoW. People play WAR in the same way that they play WoW because WAR has exactly the same game design. Of course they are going to play the game the same way. Thats how it has been made. People can only do what the game allows them to do.

A lot of people expected a WoW clone so they played it that way, either consciously or not. WAR is NOT a WoW clone, especially not on a very fundamental level - the reason to play/ goal of the game. WoW is a me-me-me game where individual achievement ultimately in the form of gear is paramount. WAR is not - it is a group goal game. I see a lot of old time WoW players thinking that getting gear is the reason to go capital sieging... Well they're wrong: getting gear or levels is just another thing to help you achieve the ultimate goal - dominate the other side.

When I get a nice purple drop I consider it great because it'll help me pwn those destros better. I do not go fighting those destros so I can get purple drops. It is the opposite way around.

He forgot to mention in that report the non free range or non sandbox feel the game has (that has turned a lot of folks away to). It was plenty of hills I had tried to scale to get to scenarios and such faster only to have it called a exploit by masses of people (shearing a cliff to fall over the side shouldn't be called a exploit or should it?).

The game has promiss but still lacks a lot of basic things seen in WOW and other games (pvp or PvE orientated).

 The idea that players are to blame for some of the game flaws is laughable at best, ignorance at worst. Mythic made some very basic mistakes and people are voting with their feet atm, saying the players are playing it the wrong way is just a cop out. 

Ps. Mark, your favourite person in the whole world (MJ) said himself that he wanted people to get to max level as fast as possible so people could enjoy endgame, so leveling was just a taster of what was to come. Saying it people are rushing to get to end level because they just want max xp and not have fun is total BS.

*Edit* Forgot to laugh at people blaming WoW for WARs problems.

One thing Warhammer does extremely well is rewarding the players that play the game right.  For example: In wow, the people that were defending a node or a base usually (not always) got less honor then those attacking the opposite factions base or nodes.  YET, these same defenders were the people that usually won the game for their faction because they protected the valuable areas that, if lost, would have resulted in a defeat for their faction.  However, they usually received less honor and thus less reward for their contribution.

Warhammer, on the other hand, seems like they reward players on a more even scale.  I played a witch hunter, and my time in PQs was mostly spent going after healers in stealth or picking up the "object" in said PQ.  Because I was a kick ass player, my reknown and honor was usually high, despite not doing as much as a tank or a healer in the overall battle.  I played my class well, and I was rewarded for it.  THIS IS A GOOD THING.  KUDOS TO YOU MYTHIC, YOU DID WELL IN THIS AREA.

WAR major issue are the devs not the players.

The game has several flaws .. dont blame the players. A player will play the game in whatever way he/she wants to as long as the game allows and rewads that playing.

The main reason WAR is failing is DEVS not players.

i just re subbed and am dling patch now. i think lots of people should give it 1 more try atleast because i have herd mythic is fixing a lot of the problems there was. which to me shows they are commited

WAR failed in so many ways that is imposible to name them all in a single page. But still i wan't to point out someting i have been thinking while i red this and that is Clases

All the clases are the same and there is almost not interactions between them, how is that you ask?

Well, lets pick a side for example, Order:

Whitch hunter: Meele DPS.

Bright Wizard: Ranged DPS

Warrior Priest: Tank/Healer

Engineer: Ranged DPS

Runemaster: Healer

Iron Breaker: Tank

Sword Master: Tank

White Lion: Meele DPS

Archmage: Healer

Shadow Warrior: Ranged DPS

See the patron? i color-coded it so it is even more obvious.

There is no buffers or debuffers.

The buffs (like prismatic shield) are laughable, and the debuffs usually last so little time that is almost imposible to use them, either that or they get cancelled when you use them.

That leads to the combat, which is always the same, spam a key and hope for your enemy to die.

Also, i wanted to add. If you are a BW you automatically win all the PQs even if you enter in the 3º fase.

The engine sucks, even mourkain temple had visual lag for many people, let alone big raids.

Originally posted by mackdawg19 

PvE isn't what this game is about, if that is what your trying to state. It never was. IMO, they shouldn't of added any PQ's or quest related to PvE. It only makes the balance wheel even harder to adjust correctly. It also gets people confused as to what type of game your trying to put out there. It's clearly evident that this is happening. The scenarios also should of never been setup like they are now. The capture the flag, hold the ball crap system they have now almost directly resembles WoW which was never really that great to begin with. Why they didn't just make them like the BG's they had in Dark Age of Camelot is beyond me. They spout all this crap about how much open RvR means to them, and then they place Scenarios inside there game that don't even reflect Open RvR. And they wonder why people are taking the easy way out. 

 

It's obvious why they did this: to compete with WoW.  The idea wasn't to make a DAoC II, the idea was to make a more PvP-oriented version of WoW, with the bulk of the PvP taking place in instanced BGs.  The keeps came along later, in response to comments from beta testers, but the design of the game was always heavy instanced PvP, specifically to capitalize on the market WoW created for MMO instanced PvP.  They were trying to skim WoW players from the get-go, in terms of the design, not really aimed at trying to get DAoC players.

Oh, and as for "realm pride" and stuff like that ... that went the wayside in the first wave of MMOs.  With large market MMOs, you're not going to get realm pride.  People care about themselves.  Next they care about their RL friends and relatives in their guild.  Next they maybe care a little bit about strangers they meet on the internet who are in their guild.  But beyond that, who cares about the pubbies, to be honest?   I saw more asshattery on my own side in WAR than I care to remember, and if I was allowed to attack and kill these so-called "realm mates", I would have done so gladly.  This reliance on the quaint concept of "realm pride" is also a key problem in WAR.

Don't blame WOW for leading players by the nose.  Players were demanding more direction.  Some hints what to do.  Anything that gave the game a sense of purpose while playing for an hour.   Actually, WOW doesn't guide you nearly as much as more recent MMOs like LOTR, AOC and WAR especially.  No map markers for quest locations in WOW, just quest givers.  No icons for every NPC either.  You want to know where an NPC is, ask a guard. 

WOW doesn't lead you by the nose.  It leads you enough like a VIDEOGAME should.  Older MMOs didn't give you any direction at all which is why the performed so piss poor and felt boring to the average gamer.  Nothing to do.  No point. 

Mythic took the leading and hand holding so far that they stole every bit of exploration out of the game.  Its where they tryied to out-WOW, WOW and didn't hit the mark.